Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Magical Realism Reconsidered

Already good

Is it a problem that Gabriel García Márquez is already a Good Article? --Ettrig (talk) 14:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Good question, but it is not a problem, as it can certainly be improved, not least because a new, pretty much definitive biography has recently been published. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 19:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions

Are you still looking for articles for your students could write? If so, I have a few fairly important articles in mind that would be perfect for this project. NW (Talk) 20:21, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Not really, but throw out a suggestion if you wish... --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 20:51, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Was thinking about Bless Me, Ultima, which is in rather atrocious shape despite being on the 2008 Banned Books list. Isabel Allende and her novel The House of the Spirits are the other two ones that popped into my mind. NW (Talk) 21:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for these ideas, and the articles do need some work. Perhaps in the future, then, but for now the books we're reading are pretty much set. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:56, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Why English?

Why is this class writing in English, rather than in Spanish? This question is motivated only by personal curiosity and obviously noone has an obligation to answer it. It seems that the course is intended to provide training in use of the Spanish language. Maybe some of the students only want to enjoy the Spanish literature. But surely some have a wish to learn a broader spectrum of uses of the Spanish language, for example writing in it. (For me it is better in English. I wouldn't be able to follow a similar project in Spanish.) --Ettrig (talk) 20:32, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The students have in fact been invited also to contribute in Spanish. So far, none have taken up the challenge. It may be that in a subsequent project I make them write in Spanish. But in any case the course is not a language class; it's a literature class. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 22:32, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

If you need help in the Spanish Wikipedia, look me up. :-) I'm a regular contributor there, and wouldn't mind reviewing articles or helping with local policies there. Cheers Raystorm (¿Sí?) 16:57, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Just to make sure...

In case I missed it while tripping through my magically unrealistic inner world, the students in this class will let us know when they need our assistance? I have the page watched, but I'm waiting for the secret signal to start paying attention... --Moni3 (talk) 23:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps I've jumped the gun a little, but maybe something like we used for jb's other projects would work? I've left a note on Talk:The Kingdom of this World (I'll probably only have time to take on one of the project's articles, and that one looked interesting). If we each 'adopt' a group/article, it might help to break the ice and provide a specific Wiki-side point of contact; Wikipedia can be a intimidating place and we're for the most part just faceless pseudonyms :) Your thoughts? EyeSerene^talk 00:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I dunno. I kind of thought jbmurry is the prof, so we wait for direction from him. I don't know where the students are in their preparation with Wikipedia, unsure of their readiness, and do not wish to rush anyone. I figured I'd be chatted up when the students are ready. For all I know, these books have not been fully read by the students and they have group schedules of some kind. I think when I participated in North of the Rio Grande, that I was approached. But then, my memory usually sucks, so maybe I did leave a message on one of the book articles... Anyways, Dr. Murray, what is your preference? --Moni3 (talk) 00:38, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Heh. Thanks as always for your enthusiasm. Yes, you'll know. I'm taking a slightly different tack this time, focussing on research and reading in a different way. See the assignment I've just templated to all the student talk pages. Actual editing of articles may be somewhat delayed, therefore. We'll see... But if you guys were to pick an article, as my old buddy Mr Serene has done, then that would be fantastic. I can help coordinate. (Now, however, rushing to photocopy...) --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 01:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I think picking an article or two is a good idea, too. If we could list what we've chosen next to our names on the main project page, perhaps that would help the organization of things. Awadewit (talk) 23:34, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I've somewhat formalized this by giving out the grand-sounding titles of "Wikipedia liaison." (As always, this shouldn't imply any great burden on yourselves; feel free to interpret this honorific as best you see fit.) I hope this is OK with you guys. I know it reassures the students. Though the veterans are already aware of how important it is to interact with people such are yourself, the newbies are understandably a little more cautious. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 04:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks good :) EyeSerene^talk 08:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The first constructive change to Wikipedia

The instructions say plus made at least one edit anywhere on Wikipedia. I interpreted this to mean "made at least one constructive change to the encyclopedia". Checking half of the students, I find none have improved the encyclopedia. (Exception for "veterans", of course.) Most have only added themselves to the project page, that is they have not produced the plus. I think making about 10 constructive changes to the encyclopedia proper would be a good intermediate step. It is fairly easy to do, yet gives a flavour of what the work is like and may provide the first interaction with the community. --Ettrig (talk) 13:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the advice. The stress at the moment is on 1) familiarizing students with basic editing 2) encouraging them to communicate on Wiki and 3) making them build a bibliography of reliable sources. As such, I'm trying to help them lay the basis for making more constructive changes to the encyclopedia over the course of the semester. This structured approach is, as you point out, perhaps rather different from the typical editor's, but I hope that it makes sense for a project of this kind, especially given its time-delimited nature. As you can see looking at the three projects I've run so far, I am indeed constantly tinkering. Increasingly, however, I want to put stress on the search for reliable sources as soon as possible. In earlier projects, some time was wasted as students got stuck in early, but with rather poor sources which later had to be removed. There are pluses and minuses to that: they did indeed perhaps get the gist of the encyclopedia earlier; but they stored up problems for themselves later. As always, however, I don't claim to have found the perfect approach; I'm just tinkering with new ones. And your advice is, as I say, much appreciated. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 04:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Your class is massive; it will be interesting to see how this effects the dynamics of your project. Incidentally, I tried the group approach on this years project Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2009. I need to fine tune it.. the infighting was brutal; exclusively over the lack of equal participation by all members. I'm still uncertain how to defend the grading - I've been hit with an array of concerns from parents. "Yes... the article was poorly done ... but they received no help from the others! and Why did they get a good grade; I did all the work! etc... The level of participation, this year, by any individual student was far less than when each student was accountable for their own article. The quality of their efforts reached a point where I felt compelled to perform a formal review on three of the articles - a time consuming task! From your experience, have you seen dramatic difference in the edit counts of students working on a single subject? If so, do you factor these in or is your final evaluation strictly the end product with no accounting for the parasites? Cheers!--JimmyButler (talk) 16:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Jimmy, thanks for your comments. I know where you're coming from... This year, the grade includes a peer-review element. So in part, students grade each other on the amount of effort put in. This is intended to address the issues you mention. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 16:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Excellent idea. It would be interesting to get their take on each others efforts. Is it open ended or have you developed a peer review form addressing specific criteria to be evaluated?--JimmyButler (talk) 17:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I've taught a class with a large group component in it and I did exactly that - each member of the group had to write a review of the other group members and of themselves. I found that students were pretty honest about themselves, because they knew the other students would write things like "X did not show up to group meetings", etc. Awadewit (talk) 18:26, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

How to interact

Several weeks ago I posted some comments on Talk:Alejo Carpentier. There was an immediate nice response and one adjustment in the article. Recently there was a request for more feedback on my talk page, which I answered. But most of my comments are still not responded to. It is to be expected that the students will not always agree with the views of the wider Wikipedia community. But getting their feedback is very valuable, I think. To keep this feedback coming, it is essential to respond to it. --Ettrig (talk) 13:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I would also recommend leaving notes on user talk pages. It's a good way to get more individualized feedback, discuss the disputed points in articles, and (in the best cases) find common ground or even consensus. Plus it's nice for folks to get personal notes! Scartol • Tok 15:38, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Heads up to WP editors working on this project

It appears that there's a looming GA nomination deadline for the students; it seems from notes I've seen on talk pages that they have to nominate by 20 April. Alejo Carpentier was nominated and promptly failed -- the GA queue is remarkably short right now. As a result I think there's some chance that the articles will be nominated and may fail if they are reviewed by reviewers who haven't signed up for this project and aren't prepared to put some time in to help out with reviews. (I should say I thought Alejo Carpentier deserved to fail; it had some real problems.)

I don't know what Jon's rules are this time around, but it might be good to let the students renominate if the articles fail. I would also suggest that those of us who have signed up to help keep a close eye over the next few days, as I would imagine there will be a run of nominations in the next 48 hours.

I jumped in at Alejo Carpentier even though that wasn't the article I'd signed up for, just because it had already been nominated and they needed the help. The two liaisons who signed up to help were Moni3 and NuclearWarfare; I hope they don't mind that I stepped in -- I happened to have the time to help out. Let's not pay too close attention to the liaison signups; let's just help out where needed. I've signed up as liaison for Leyendas de Guatemala, for example, but since I have less time during the week I may not be able to help as much there. Mike Christie (talk) 16:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I didn't realise the deadline was that soon. I'm doing a pre-GA review on The Kingdom of this World at the moment, but the article won't be ready for 20th. EyeSerene^talk 08:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The students all deserve an "F"

I read the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism. It appears that members of this class were heavily involved in editing that article, amongst others. That article is terrible. Clearly the students did not understand Wikipedia, or the purpose of writing an encyclopedic article, or even what an article should look like for an encyclopedia. Instead it looks like it was written by students trying to appear "formal" and "literary."

That's not a great article, to be sure. But to assess fairly the students' contributions, you should compare how it was before they made their first edit to how it was when they left it. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 17:01, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)