Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Archive 5

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Defend!!

commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Money of various countries --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 01:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is no-one saying to keep all of the Australian coins, I work on those articles, i hope the images dont get deleted IAmTheCoinMan 07:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yay!

We got another article on the front page, hip hip hor...ay? Funny thing is that on this projects main page it says:" Improve to GA: Dime (United States coin) " That articles on the front page, might wanna update it ay.IAmTheCoinMan 07:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Gallery of Canadian banknotes is bust

Could somebody take a look at Gallery of Canadian banknotes? It seems that virtually all images have been deleted since somebody got the bad idea to upload them to Commons and then delete the local copies here. Commons has - not surprisingly - deleted these images again as copyvios. An admin might be able to restore the local copies, but the images would still have to be retagged. Regards. Valentinian ^{T / C} 09:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

sol vs. sole

Anyone want to deal with Argentine sol, Bolivian sol, and sole (currency)? It looks like sole needs to be deleted, but I don't really know, and don't really want to mess with it either. Ingrid 22:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be deleted. “Sole” was never the spelling of the currency. – Zntrip 04:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Postal orders (numis or exon)

It has been brought to my attention that some postal orders have been declared legal tender during certain periods. Postal orders generally seem to be clearly exonumia. Legal tender is definitely numismatics. Generally, I've tried to avoid double-tagging anything. In this case, I can't see a better way to handle it. Anyone else have an idea? Ingrid 04:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

New and wondering about something

Is there an article that deals specifically with emergency currency? --Charlene 07:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Not so far as I know. If you look above, you'll see that I think we should have a category for complementary currency which I think is similar. I haven't created the category or found the articles yet though. alternative currency and exonumia in general are not well organized in my opinion, and could use some work. Ingrid 16:23, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Page move: Philippine piso to Philippiine peso

A move has been proposed. Talk:Philippine piso#Requested move. -Will Beback · † · 20:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

ISO 4217 in style guide

I removed reference to ISO 4217 at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 01:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Peseta

Peseta should not be a redirect. There are multiple pesetas at Template:Peso. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 02:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. Four that I counted. Should be a dab. Joe I 05:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I also think that these dab pages should transclude the template, rather than trying to maintain the list in multiple places. It's on my to do list, but I don't know when I'll get to it. Anyone else can feel free to handle it if they want. Ingrid 14:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Eboracum edited the peseta wiki stating that curreny_name_in_local should only containt the spanish version, (Peseta,)" as it is the currency of the Spanish state, is only correct officially in the Spanish language, not in regional ones.)". However, I have restored the original multilingual version (peseta/pesseta/Pezeta), since in_local does not mean that the name is official for all the state or parts of it.

This is also the case for Swiss Franc, were Romansch official in some areas but not at federal level, yet the retroromance name appears in the infobox. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thewikipedian (talk • contribs)

My apology to the naming of these attributes. My original intention is "local" mean of that country. It doesn't mean provincial, county, or city.

New proposed standard of currency_name_in_local

• All official languages of the actual users at the national level, plus all that appear on the physical currencies.

• If there are users with completely sovereignty, such as Hong Kong, then take the official language(s) at the top level of those special administrative region, autonomous entities, whatever they are called.

• It is better missing than to guess. It is ok to be missing.
• In some languages, indefinite/definite articles are part of the nouns, such as the North Germanic languages. Use indefinite singular form. Example: Faroese króna. After all, you wouldn't write "le franc français" in French franc's infobox, right?
• One line per spelling (overrides old rule of one line per language). If hypothetically Australia, Spain and Portugal all use the Australian dollar, then the infobox would have

dólar australiano <small>{{es icon}} {{pt icon}}</small>

• Use capitalization rule as if it is in the middle of a sentence in that language. For example, "franc français", not "Franc français", nor "franc Français". (existing rule)

Please comment on this. If this is adopted, we need to re-evaluate

• Spanish peseta
• Swiss franc
• Soviet ruble
• Austro-Hungarian gulden
• Austro-Hungarian krone
• Hungarian korona
• Hungarian pengő
• South African rand and South African pound
• Indian rupee
• Central African CFA franc
• West African CFA franc
• See also List of official languages by state

--ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 20:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Do we want to handle situations where there is a common English name which is not used locally? Czech crown comes to mind, but I know there are many others. Ingrid 01:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

What you're suggesting would fall into a new attribute alternative_unit. It's being discussed in my and Dove1950's talk pages. A-H and later Hungarian currencies are pretty much done, thanks to Timur. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 13:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

On a related note, I've been adding alternate forms to the templates at Template:Denominations. I like it, but I don't know how to handle the crowns. There are so many alternate forms for Austro-Hungarian krone that it seemed like it might bother some people if I put them in, but I don't like to be inconsistent. Soviet ruble will have the same problem. Any thoughts? Ingrid 01:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

What about an arbitrary cap like "up to 2 alternative spellings"? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 13:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The Swiss franc page looks fine to me. All four are official languages. – Zntrip 02:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I've added more codified rules about incomplete sovereignty and indefinite/definite noun. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

---

The discussions above this line are the discussions before I spammed multiple talk pages. Please discuss below. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

My reason for the proposed rule is simple: Make a rule that makes sense and is always applicable, and then generate data from it. Avoid having some data first, and then making rules that refit those data. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's useful to present both the English name ("Swiss franc", "British pound (sterling)" etc.) and the local names (franc suisse etc.). However, I'm afraid that listing the name in all official languages of the countries concerned might result in a long list of names for some currencies such as SUR and INR. This probably looks awkward, so maybe the list should be limited somehow. If it is too long, maybe the table could present only the English name and link to a separate page where the names in all of the other languages are listed. (Stefan2 21:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC))

English is always the first line. It's automatically included from the article title. If the list gets long, perhaps I can devise a collapsible thing like infobox of the European Union. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It's been quiet for a while. I'll consider this matter closed, and write the new rule into the style guide. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Medalet

A was thinking of starting a new article entitled 'Medalet' (i.e. a small medal) as there isn't one at the moment. The only thing that puts me off is the fact that it would be more like a dictionary entry and not really an encyclopædic article. Another thing, Dictionary.com as well as some other online dictionaries spell it with a single 'l', yet there are more Google hits with a double 'l'. I am inclined to think that this must be a American and British English spelling difference. Chris Buttigieg 15:46, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

You should try over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Orders, Decorations, and Medals. Joe I 05:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Currencies watchlist

I created a list of currencies in my userspace which doesn't include the countries where the currencies are used, and consistently follows our style guide, even when the pages don't (done with | so related changes will work). It also has links to the templates and disambig pages. It uses all local forms of a currency name (when I could figure them out). It's at User:Mom2jandk/List of currencies feel free to use it. I added it to the navigation template as another watchlist. If anyone wanted to, they could also use it to identify pages that are at the wrong spot (to create a list of exceptions for the style guide, or to move pages -- I am not getting involved in page name issues anymore). Ingrid 02:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Israeli currency

There's a discussion over the naming of "Israeli lira" or "Israeli pound". See Talk:Israeli lira#Requested move. -Will Beback · † · 05:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Massive deletion of euro images on commons

See [1] and you'll know. SIGH!! --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Octopus card almost ready for GA nomination

Octopus card is now substantially cleaned-up and it's almost ready for GA nomination. But several statements still need citations and I was not able to find sources for them. Please see the article's talk page for details and help find some sources. If sources are not found in a week or two, I'll be removing or modifying those statements so I can nominate the article for GA. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the remaining statements for which no sources were found, and have the article for GA status. Please re-insert the statements I deleted if sources are found. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

peer review of East African shilling please

I've done some updating to this page, and would like to see about making it a good article, or maybe even featured (although I don't know if there's any restriction on obscure topics). Anyway, I'd appreciate it if some of you would take a look and let me know what you think. I haven't updated the coin or banknote sections yet, and have some questions about how to proceed.

• The standard coin table includes a lot of detailed information that I don't have access to (exact size and composition). Also, I don't have photo for everything. Is it better to have a line for each coin with some images missing? How should I format the table when all I know is basically image/value/description/dates issued (just dates that show on the coins). I've got the SCWC, so it's whatever I can get from there.
• The only examples I've seen of coin tables have only one series (I'm not sure what word to use for one set of designs). What do I do if there are multiple series'
• Same questions for banknotes, only I don't have a catalog, so I'm working basically from Ron Wise's site.

Ingrid 02:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Image

File:Banknotes.jpg

Can I replace the image on Template:Numismatics with this one ?Bewareofdog 00:10, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I tried it. It's really hard to see so small. Joe I 04:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hay no Australian dollars, im so offended that there is the worthless Zimbabwe dollars, wawawa. Nice picture though. Enlil Ninlil 05:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the size 230px would be perfect I tried it look.Bewareofdog 00:16, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

File:Banknotes.jpg

Numismatics

Numismatic terminology

Currency Coins, Banknotes, Forgery Circulating currencies Community currencies Company scrip, LETS, Time dollars Fictional currencies

Ancient currencies Greek, Roman, Byzantine Medieval currencies Modern currencies Africa, The Americas, Europe, Asia, Oceania

Production Mint, Designers Coining, Milling, Hammering

Exonumia Credit cards, Medals, Tokens Notaphily Banknotes Scripophily Stocks, Bonds

I reverted. That is way to large, the image should be no bigger than 100px. Joe I 05:01, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Because of the phrase "Numismatic terminology", the table is stretched beyond 70px, the width of the existing image. We have room for 140.

Btw, Image:Banknotes.jpg and Image:Euro coins version II.png have been nominated for feature picture. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

File:Many coins.jpg

Was 70px

File:Banknotes.jpg

Now 140px

downloading images

I was wondering what the current status is of downloading various images. I know that Don's World Coin Gallery gave us permission in the past, but the link is not working anymore, and I think wikipedia policies have changed. I think I've also seen something about other sites giving us permission. I know I found out one time that scans of banknotes can't be copyrighted by the scanner. Anyone have more information (I'll summarize it on the main project page). Ingrid 16:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we have permission from Don's Coin World, as far as I know that hasn't changed by any wikipedia rules, except maybe for country specific where copyrights are questionable. We also have permission from aboutcoins.org. I was gonna put it on the main page, but I can't find how to get to his images. I have an email inquiry about it. I also have permission from [2], though it is old and needs to be legalized per Wikipedia:Example requests for permission. Wikipedia, specifically, "permissions-en AT wikimedia DOT org", has copies of the first two(Don's and aboutcoins) email permission correspondence. If anyone would like a copy of either three, please ask, and I'll be happy to send you a copy. If anyone knows of any website that has lots of good coin and banknote pics, I would be more than happy to contact them.

As for the copyrights, that I have no idea of. Commons has been deleting like crazy. So I think that would be an area of welcomed improvement, finding national copyright laws specific to currency, making templates and referencing them. Joe I 18:29, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I found the OTRS number for world coin gallery, and updated {{WorldCoin}} which I also renamed to be {{WorldCoinGallery}}. If you have or get an OTRS number for aboutcoins or anywhere else, let me know and I'll set up the template. There's a page at Wikipedia:Free image resources#banknotes and coins with this information. I'll link to that page from our project page right now. I'll also try to get the templates set up on commons at some point. Another great source is http://www.banknoteworld.com . Like I said, I don't think we need permission for banknotes, but that's just based on a question I once asked on the copyright questions board. Probably safer to just get permission (which I think Ron Wise has given before, but I can't find anything about it). Ingrid 21:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think the right thing to do is use {{PD-banknote}} (which I just created) as well as the country specific tag. Ron Wise and other banknote sites claim copyright on the images which they don't seem to have any right to do. I've asked at the copyright questions board what they think, and will let you know. Ingrid 22:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Looking through the first few coin images, I see several from http://www.easybuenosairescity.com/currency.htm . We need to get permission from them, or find replacements. Also, does anyone know if images can be renamed or redirected? Ingrid 17:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I added http://aboutcoins.org to Wikipedia:Free image resources#banknotes and coins. Joe I 04:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Money is this week's WP:GACo - your help is needed!

I am here to inform you that the article on money has just been selected as the Good Article Collaboration of the week. This is one of the most important articles in Wikipedia, and certainly of utmost importance within the topical scope of this WikiProject, but unfortunately it is in a very poor state as of now. The selection for COTW makes for a good occassion for a concerted effort to improve it, and I am really counting on the members of WikiProject Numismatics, with your knowledge and expertise in the field, to help other users involved bring it at least to Good Article standards. In particular, I hope you could provide some gravely needed sources, as well as help to make sure the material aspects of money are sufficiently covered by the article. PrinceGloria 17:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Image deletion again

Go here and search for BetacommandBot. (you might want to show more days/changes than the default.) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't get it. What are you saying? IAmTheCoinMan 08:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Australian Coins Again

Is Florin (Australian coin) going to be moved to Australian Florin coin or Australian Florin to fit in with all the other coins; Australian 50 cent coin.

The English Florin is Florin (English coin).

Australian coins have had their name changed a few times. I think Australian coins should get changed to; Amount(Australian coin) like; 1 dollar (australian coin), shilling (australian coin). Because calling it 'Australian Florin coin' sounds stupid, and calling it 'Australia Florin' doesn't mention coin which i think it should.

ps. certain things in the message should be capitalised but this is just a talk page so meh!. IAmTheCoinMan 08:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be helpful to have a naming guideline for coins. I'm sure it's been discussed before. I also like <coin name/description> (<country's> coin) like florin (Australian coin) and 50 cents (Australian coin). I noticed all of the Australian coins were moved recently, with the description that it had been decided on the talk page, but the moves didn't seem to match what was discussed. If there's support for this, I can add it to the style guide (checking quickly to make sure it's not already there :)

Wouldn't that contradict what's already on the style guide? I do think article names with number denominations sound better like 50 cents (Australian coin) instead of Australian 50 cent coin. Otherwise I hate to reverse a decision apparently made before. Since we've been over names so often, maybe we could use some outside opinions, especially to try to match wikipedias style guide which was recently brought up on some talk page. Whatever way it goes, it needs to fit universally not just for Australia. Joe I 03:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I read the style guide to just be talking about currency articles, not specific coins. I would definitely like to get community support, but am not sure exactly how to go about that. I'll ask at the help desk. Ingrid 21:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I have brought this up again and again whenever people discuss this topic. For example, Talk:Australian 10 cent coin#Discussion. Maybe it's because the increased scope scare away some editors. I honest don't care what format to use, as long as there is a consistent one. I just prefer numerals (50) over spelled out numbers (fifty). And there is no standing style guide for this either. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

living people on currency

The guideline for fair-use of currency and stamps (WP:FU) currently says that it is not appropriate to use non-free images on articles which are not specifically about the currency or stamp. I think this is generally true, but is a bit restrictive. I'm trying to think of an example though. What I thought of is the US law that living people cannot be used on currency. Can anyone give me more details? Wasn't there a Treasury secretary who put his own picture on a note? Of course, most images of US currency are public domain, but even if they weren't, I think it would be appropriate to show the image in a biography article about that guy, since it was a notable thing that he did. Similarly, perhaps there are currency designers who are only famous for their art? I want to take it up on WT:FU and could use some examples. Ingrid 15:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I do remember about someone either putting thier image on a coin or note, or trying to to, but not sure when or who(I'm getting to old). Anyways good examples would be Polymer banknote, Image:FOUREFFIGIES.jpg used only on Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, Image:United States penny, obverse, 2002.jpg used on Abraham Lincoln and many more, Image:1915-half-sov-reverse.JPG used on Benedetto Pistrucci(the engravers page), Image:ClemensXI.jpg used on Pope Clement XI, Paul Kruger which uses Image:Kruger01.jpg and Augustus Saint-Gaudens which uses Image:1933 double eagle.JPG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Searchme (talk • contribs) 03:40, 18 May 2007

Currency article section hierarchy (history, coins, and banknotes)

Currently there is no explicit style guide for this. It's usually by redenomination, coin v.s note, and series. What am I talking about?

Style 1 (Dove1950's style)

• History/coins/banknotes
  • Redenomination
    • Series

e.g.

History

Old dinar

...

Coins

Old dinar

1980 series

New dinar

1 new dinar = 1000 old dinara

1995 series

2003 series

Banknotes

....

Example: Yugoslav dinar

Pros: Suitable to people who only care about banknotes, or only coins.

Cons: Historical context is scattered across the articles. If I want to know what happened around 1980, I have to reference three places.

Style 2

• Redenomination
  • Background/coins/banknotes
    • Series

e.g. Uzbekistani som

Some weird hybrid of style 1 and 3.

Style 3

• Redenomination
  • Series
    • Coins/banknotes

e.g. Renminbi

Pros: Readers get to know what happened to both the coins and banknotes at a certain time in history w/o referencing two different places in the article. (This is more a renminbi specific structure. Both the central bank and the collectors structure their data, or mindset like this.)

Cons: In many currencies, updates of coins and banknotes are not synchronous

---

Which one do you think is better? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it's hard to make a general case. When there's a redenomination, I think it definitely belongs in a separate section, since it's basically creating a new currency (and in some cases we create a new article -- Turkish lira and Turkish new lira). For a redesign, it's harder to say, and probably depends on the circumstances. Since coins and banknotes are not all redesigned at the same time, I think it's going to depend on the situation. Generally, I like having the top-level split be coins vs. banknotes, since that's how my interest is split. But then, when a redesign happens because of a change of monarch, all the coins change at the same time (do the notes generally too? I don't know). To take the US as an example though, we seem to change one coin/bill at a time, so there's no logical split of designs. Ingrid 16:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Citing sources

In an effort to make it easier to cite references, I've created some utility templates. So far, there's {{numis cite SCWC}} you give it a date parameter for your edition of The Standard Catalog of World Coins, and it puts in a formatted reference. Only a few dates are supported so far, but feel free to update it (or ask me). There's also {{numis cite TMMH}} for citing the Tables of Modern Monetary History at http://www.dollarization.org. You just put in the region and it fills in all the details. I've used these at East African shilling. I also plan to create one for the SCWPM (Standard Catalog of World Paper Money) and GFD (Global Financial Data) at least. Ingrid 16:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Good job!! The next thing to do is to backfill the references added by Dove1950 since circa 3/27. At random poking, I believe this edit is pretty close to when he started doing this. Another to-do is to create another one for SCWPM, and add more editions to them. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Octopus card passed GA

Alright, Octopus card has passed its GA nomination. The first step to bringing that article back to FA status has been accomplished. I may not get to it right away, but what I plan to do next is:

1. Create stub articles for the red links in the article.
2. Request a peer review.
3. Nominate for FAC.

Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I've requested a peer review for the article. Wikipedia:Peer review/Octopus card/archive2. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Rarely used coins -- commemorative coins?

GBP lists £5 as a rarely used British coin. On the £5 page it says that the coin only exists in the form of various commemorative coins. Shall all commemorative coin denominations be added to the "rarely used coins" section in the infoboxes, as long as the commemorative coins remain legal tender? All Swedish commemorative coins issued since 1873 remain legal tender, and commemorative coins have been issued in the values of 1 SEK, 2 SEK, 5 SEK, 10 SEK, 50 SEK, 100 SEK, 200 SEK, 1000 SEK and 2000 SEK. See [3] for more information.

Out of these denominations, only 1, 2, 5 and 10 SEK exist as normal coins (with 2 SEK being legal tender but extremely rare, not having been minted for decates). You will never see any of the coins in circulation (because they are kept by collectors), but they are still legal tender and you won't see any £5 coins in circulation either. So the question is if 50 SEK, 100 SEK, 200 SEK, 1000 SEK and 2000 SEK shall be added to the list of rarely used coins for SEK. (Stefan2 19:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC))

I'm more inclined to list only the denominations intended for general circulation and still being produced. So it will go up to 10 SEK and 2 GBP. If 2 SEK is no longer produced since 1971, then I believe it's not even qualified for "rarely". --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Presentation of banknote articles

The presentation of banknote articles leaves a lot to be desired, especially in the cases of where a country has had more than one banknote issuer, or where an issuer issued banknotes for more than one country.

For example, the Republic of Ireland has had 3 issuers that were empowered to issue banknotes by successive Irish governments since 1928 - the Currency Commission Irish Free State, Currency Commission Ireland, and the Central Bank of Ireland.

On the isle of Ireland, there has been two banknote issuers both named Ulster Bank Limited, the articles Banknotes of Ulster Bank Limited (Ireland) and Banknotes of Ulster Bank Limited (Northern Ireland) should be created, and the catalogue numbers from the Pick catalogues should also be used as well.

The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation issued banknotes for the Straits Settlements as well as for Hong Kong, therefore, the articles Banknotes of the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation (Hong Kong) and Banknotes of the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation (Straits Settlements) should also be created as well.

In Northern Ireland, there has been several banknote issuers that do not have 'Northern Ireland' in their title. The articles Banknotes of the Bank of Ireland (Northern Ireland), Banknotes of the Provincial Bank of Ireland Limited (Northern Ireland), Banknotes of Allied Irish Banks Limited (Northern Ireland), and Banknotes of the First Trust Bank Limited (Northern Ireland) should also be created.

In the Isle of Man, there was also a few banknote-issuing institutions as well. The articles Banknotes of Martins Bank Limited (Isle of Man) and Banknotes of the Isle of Man Government should be created as well.

In Wales in 1969, banknotes were issued by a company called the Chief Treasury of Wales Limited. This issuer was forced to change its name to the Black Sheep Company of Wales Limited. The articles Banknotes of the Black Sheep Company of Wales Limited and Banknotes of the Chief Treasury of Wales Limited should also be created.

In Scotland, the British Linen Bank, the Clydesdale Bank Limited, and Clydesdale Bank Plc all issued banknotes. As none of these issuers have 'Scotland' in their names, the articles Banknotes of the British Linen Bank (Scotland), Banknotes of the Clydesdale Bank Limited (Scotland), and Banknotes of the Clydesdale Bank Plc (Scotland) should also be created.

Both the British Armed Forces and the British Military Authority also issued banknotes, so the articles Banknotes of the British Armed Forces and Banknotes of the British Military Authority should also be created as well. - (203.211.76.52 22:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There has been some progress on articles around banknote issuers for the UK countries, Crown dependencies and Overseas Territories, including some categorisation work which opens up a framework for building the kind of articles you desire:

• Category:Banknote issuers of the United Kingdom
• Category:Former Banknote issuers of the United Kingdom
• Category:Currencies of the British Crown Dependencies
• Category:Currencies of British Overseas Territories

The article Banknotes of the pound sterling has been ordered and expanded.

The way it's evolving, the articles may start to fit into the following taxonomy, depending on the depth of material:

Banknotes of the pound sterling => Banknotes of constituent country => Issuing bank => Banknotes of issuing bank

Obviously it's not consistent right now, but it's an evolution - contributors are taking it to the first three levels, and to the fourth level if the depth of material can be written.

I don't agree that separate articles should be created for each name change of issuing bank, for exmample Banknotes of the Clydesdale Bank Limited (Scotland), and Banknotes of the Clydesdale Bank Plc (Scotland) - the switch from Ltd to Plc, while legally important, is of low encyclopaedic importance. Readers and editors would understand if this information were presented in a single Banknotes of the Clydesdale Bank article, with changes in corporate status handled by subheadings.

Further to your idea of adding the country of origin in brackets in the title, it's a bit cumbersome, unlikely to be applied consistently, and it suggested that there is a Clydesdale Bank (Somewhere else) in addition to the Scottish one! Country of origin is, of course, important and you're right to point this out, but it's an item of metadata that IMHO is best handled by categories - maybe by a more granular categorisation than Category:Banknote issuers of the United Kingdom. For the moment, however, it does the job until we get more contributions.

Have fun.

Standardising currency symbols redirects

There are inconsistencies between redirects of the form "$n" where "$" is a currency symbol and "n" is a number.

Following a discussion around £ at [4], I suggest copying what User:Chochopk has done at [5] and standardise redirects across all currency symbols.

Shall I create a project subpage to do this, with a big table on it? -- Chris Wood 10:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

This sounds like a one-time clean up. Perhaps a user subpage would be enough? If you create one, I will help. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:52, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

fair use images

See my comments at WP:AN#BetacommandBot and Fair use. I'm not sure how to respond. It looks like fair use imagse of coins/banknotes will not be accepted unless we can say that they are "needed" in the article (beyond what I've already put in the rationale, "Text descriptions of coins are helpful, but cannot replace a picture"). Most of our images are fair use, so this is important if we want to have images in articles. Any ideas? Ingrid 02:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

There's been an ongoing crackdown (like the Iraqi sugre) on fair use images... it kinda sucks and there's nothing anyone can do about it. 21:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

It gets worse. Betacommand replied to me that unless the text is restructured to be prose form (not table) and discuss the significance of the design elements on the coin and how they've changed over time, fair use can't be justified. It's only one opinion, but I don't have the mental energy to argue about it. So, it sounds like most fair use images in most of our articles are not going to be accepted. Ingrid 22:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I know what you mean, all the discography pages (i.e. The Beatles discography, which is a very nice page) had the album art removed. All this fair use rationale stuff is so confusing. No main page is cited that states what Wikipedia's or the Wikimedia Foundation's policy is regarding fair use image in tables and lists. So I can't argue with all these people saying it can't be done. The stupid thing is all the polcy stuff I find is too ambiguous (i.e. it must enhance so and so). Another thing is that coins and banknotes are all public domain anyway and the scaned images can't be copyrighted. My advice is let the images be removed, resistance is futile. – Zntrip 01:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[6] and similar pages used to be very useful lists of coins, and I'd prefer if the images could return. Is there really *no* way to do that? [7] and some other images contain a notice that permission has been granted from the Bank of England to use the image on Wikipedia, so I guess that this £20 image can be used freely anywhere on Wikipedia. I suppose that having such a licence for all currency images that haven't entered the public domain yet would work, but asking for permission from every single central bank in the whole world would probably be quite tiresome, and the licences probably have to be renewed once in a while. And I see that even on that £20 note page, there's a request for a fair use rationale for each and every use of that image... (Stefan2 08:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC))

I share the same sentiment. I don't really want to talk to Betacommand. Let the images die or join to the dark side. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I highly doubt that anyone would dislike Wikipedia using pictures of coins and notes (central banks would probably often even encourage it, because it gives better knowledge of what the money of a particular country looks like, helping tourists discovering forged money, and other things). I assume that there is little need for central banks to renew copyright to their art (since old money would frequently be replaced by newer issues), so I assume that all coins & notes older than at least 75 year (or whatever the limit is) belong to the public domain & can be freely used, but it would also be nice if we could depict current issues.

It seems that requesting permission (as in that £20 case) isn't enough, because someone only requested permission for use on Wikipedia, but the rules state that anyone must be allowed to use the data, or any subset thereof, in no matter what context. So in order to use the £20 note, the Bank of England would not only need to give permission for Wikipedia to use the image, but also for any forgeries interested in making forged £20 notes. I assume (and hope) that the latter would be completely out of question for BoE, so there is probably no way to use the £20 here with just a BoE licence...

I see that with WP:FURG it will be very difficult to provide images in articles. (Stefan2 22:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC))

Postal currency

I have improved Postal currency as part of the Philately WikiProject but as this is a crossover topic, would someone from this project look it over and at least add an appropriate Numismatic category and if possible add some links to it from elsewhere. If you can improve it in any way, by all means do that too. Thanks ww2censor 15:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Images policy

Hi! I've looked through Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Numismatics#downloading_images but I've got some questions left. Whom do the images of coins belong? As far as I understand they belong to the state that issued them and not to the person/organisation that scanned them and published them in the Internet. Then why should we ask permission to use them here if according to the laws of the issuer state they are in PD? Alæxis_¿question? 07:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Anyway since the permission to use images from Worldcoingallery.com has been granted is there a need to add images from that site as illustrations to appropriate articles? Is the quality of images there considered appropriate or is there point in getting better (bigger) images? Thanks in advance for answering. Alæxis_¿question? 07:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I've spent the last several weeks trying to understand image policy. It's still confusing to me, but I think I can answer your question. Images of 3D objects (like coins) are derivative works. That means that the coin itself has a copyright (owned by the gov't or bank which produces it -- some gov'ts, like the US, release most coins into PD, others don't). The image of the coin (scan/photo) is also under copyright of whoever produced it. Therefore, coin images on wikipedia need 2 copyright tags. As an example, a US coin from world coin gallery would use {{WorldCoinGallery}} and {{Money-US}}.

Banknotes are simpler. Since they're 2D, 2D images of them are not considered derivative. So, the only copyright is the original owner (gov't/bank). I created {{PD-banknote}} to help make this clear, since many websites claim that their images are copyright, even though this is not what the law says.

The added problem comes with fair use. Under the current rules (as explained to me by User:Betacommand who is one of the admins enforcing the rules), fair use images of coins can only be used if the image is discussed in the article (info like who designed it, what it means, why it's significant). A table containing images with other detail info is _not_ considered fair use. This issue and others are currently being debated at WT:FURG (or maybe not anymore, I haven't been around much this last week). The problem is that it's often hard to tell what the copyright status of coins/banknotes is, so we have to assume fair use. Let me know if this isn't clear, or you have other questions -- it's all quite complicated! Ingrid 13:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yet again copyright laws and common sense have nothing in common )). I also wonder how is "flatness" (2-D) defined in the law since no objects in the real world are really flat... And banknotes have all these bumps for blind etc ))

Btw, what do you think about my questions from the second paragraph? Alæxis_¿question? 07:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The importance between 2D & 3D is that when photographing a 3D object, there is a creative aspect -- lighting, camera angle, etc. That's the part that is derivative, and the photographer has copyright for. As far as downloading from WCG, I don't think there's much point unless you know the coin itself is PD, or you're including "critical commentary" in the article. Some people disagree with this requirement, but others are deleting images anyway. I'm not going to waste my time. Instead, I put links -- see East African shilling. Ingrid 15:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thx. Alæxis_¿question? 19:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Images of current banknotes should be marked specimen (unless officaly sourced)?

Hi, I'm slightly concerned that a few (a minority I might add) of the banknotes images on Wikipedia are not marked in a manner as to render them 'Specimen' and thus useless to potential counterfeiters.

I would like therefore to suggest that banknote images uploaded (under fair use) to Wikipedia should be marked "Specimen" in some way UNLESS the image is officaly sourced such as from a recognised central banks website.

I've already left what I belive to be friendly comments on uploader talk pages on this, the wording being that of the {{specimenhint}} template. ShakespeareFan00 11:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree with you; that would seem the most logical thing to do. Chris Buttigieg^talk 21:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Naming convention (not again~)

Just kidding. Found this: Ghana Cedi or Ghanaian Cedi?. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Automated currency conversion?

This may have been asked before, but everytime I write an article which includes a currency figure, I wondered if it will ever be technically possible for us to simply link the currency symbol and figure, and it will change to a local currency or any currency the user chooses as his default currency, somewhat like the way dates may appear depending on user preferences. I am not too technically-inclined, but just wondering? Hope to hear some responses from those in the know!--Huaiwei 14:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Coin press vs Coin die

Are they the same, or can an analogy be drawn? Chris Buttigieg 15:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Error

I found this coin some time ago but I never cared about it . Does anyone think it is an error coin?Errorcoin.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bewareofdog (talk • contribs) 03:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Help with merger

I have proposed merging two overlapping articles, American currency union and North American monetary union. As of now, there is no opposition to the merger. However, I do not know enough about the subjects to do justice to merging them together, and would like to request help from other editors more familiar with the subject. Feel free to weigh in on the subject of the merger till it closes, whatever your view may be. Thanks. - BillCJ 18:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

List of world commemorative coins raised for AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of world commemorative coins. I'm more inclined to vote for delete, since all the "Commemorative coins of ..." articles are in disarray, and "List of world commemorative coins" is the culmination of all. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Database of Coin and Note Dimensions

I'm working on the design of a piece of equipment that may be marketed to all 40 countries of "Europe", i.e. ANDORRA AUSTRIA AZERBAJZDAN BELARUS BELGIUM BULGARIA CROATIA CZECH REPUBLIC DENMARK ESTONIA FINLAND FRANCE GEORGIA GERMANY GREECE HUNGARY ICELAND IRELAND ITALY LATVIA LITHUANIA LUXEMBOURG MACEDONIA MALTA MOLDOVA MOROCCO NETHERLANDS NORWAY POLAND PORTUGAL ROMANIA RUSSIA SERBIA & MONTENEGRO SLOVAKIA SLOVENIA SPAIN SWEDEN SWITZERLAND UKRAINE UNITED KINGDOM

What I'd like would be a database where I could look up data on the currency in use in all of these countries, i.e. what are the currency units, what denominations of coins and notes are in circulation (and preferably how many are there - to eliminate very rarely used notes), what are the diameter, thickness and weight of each coin, the length and width of each note etc. This would enable me to work out that if I have a coin acceptor that will accept coins of between 12mm and 30mm in diamter, between 1.2 and 3mm in thickness and between X and Y grams in weight, then I can accept all coins except A, B and C from county D etc. And if I have a note acceptor that will accept notes of widths between 45 and 75 mm than I can handle these denominations of notes from these countries.

Does such a database exist?

If there's a better place to ask this question, please let me know!

Many thanks - Rowan.bradley 12:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Try [8]. Not all coins have dimension or weight. Buy the "Standard Catalog of World Paper Money" and the "Standard Catalog of World Coins". Go to each individual central bank's website. Buy national currency catalogs from eBay.

There is an on-going effort of entering these data into Wikipedia. But it's going slowly. And the editors are using pretty much just these resources. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The naming convention of banknote and coin articles suck.

I believe very strongly that the naming convention that has been adopted for banknote and coin related articles suck. The common practice that is used by numismatists is Banknotes of Somaliland or Coins of the South African Republic. I reckon that the current naming policy should be done away with. Your views please. - (Numismaticman 22:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC))

I concur. However the current naming convention probably helps avoid ambiguity - what differentiates the current banknotes of Somaliland with the banknotes of a former currency of Somaliland (hypothetically speaking)? Chris.B 22:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Banknote articles for countries that have had more than one issuer

I believe that separate articles should be created where a country has had more than one issuer. If the country concerned has an issuer that does not mention the country concerned in their name, please put the country's name in brackets, as in Banknotes of the Swakopmund Bookshop (South West Africa) or Banknotes of the British Linen Bank (Scotland). Pick catalogue numbers should be included. Denominations within the article must start with a capital letter, just like in the Pick catalogues. - (Numismaticman 22:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC))

Banknote articles for issuers that have issued banknotes for more than one country

I reckon that articles should be created in a similar way as above. The Bank of Ireland has issued banknotes for both Ireland and Northern Ireland, so articles titled Banknotes of the Bank of Ireland (Ireland) and Banknotes of the Bank of Ireland (Northern Ireland) should be created. A similar situation applies to the banknotes that were issued by the Bank of Montreal, which issued banknotes for both Lower Canada and Quebec - Banknotes of the Bank of Montreal (Lower Canada) and Banknotes of the Bank of Montreal (Quebec). - (Numismaticman 22:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC))

Help needed at Julius Caesar

The Julius Caesar article contradicts itself about the denarius carrying Caesar's portrait struck in 44 BC. (This contradiction has been in place for months). It is stated that this was the first Roman coin to carry the portrait of a living person, and hence a source of controversy. Later in the article this is expressly denied. There was an inconclusive discussion at Talk: Julius Caesar#Image on coins that did not result in the any changes to the article. I hope someone on this wikiproject has access to a reliable source that can sort this mess out! Thanks in advance. PaddyLeahy 11:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Recent addition of "banknotes of ..." and "postal orders of ..." articles

I just noticed that User:Numismaticman has been creating many articles of this flavor (see Category:Banknotes and Category:Numismatics). But they end up to be many small articles like Banknote of Alderney and Banknote of Ambliara. And I don't see much room for expansion. Normally, we create a currency article. Only if things get large, then we fork off "banknotes of ..." and "coins of ...".

And I disagree that denominations must be capitalized. They are not proper nouns. And units like meter and gram are not capitalized either. Even volt, a unit named after a person, is not capitalized. So shall we move "Postal Orders of ..." to "Postal oders of ..."? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

ChoChoPK, I've sent you an email about this, please make sure it doesn't end up in your spam folder. Posting the contents here would not be appropriate. Bobby ^{I'm Here, Are You There?} 04:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe the first article should go under the Guernsey pound, and the next should go under the Indian rupee or a seperate article. The name of the second article should be something like Princley states or Independant states of India currency, as some issues were to short or with little information. As with the noun thing, wouldn't a proper noun be the Indian Rupee, as India is a proper noun and rupee is a common noun, both words are also important as an identifier and nouns. We should consult and expert on the noun situation. Enlil Ninlil 04:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with that, given the fact that Alderney does have an independent numismatic history, as it has issued medal-coins since 1989, and Ambliara was an autonomous state under British suzerainty. - (Numismaticman 07:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC))

And because Alderney does have an independent numismatic history, I see no problem putting this one and only one banknote in Alderney pound. My point is not about having a separate article for Alderney's numismatics content. My point is where to place it and how to organize these articles. Again, currency first (e.g. Ambliaran paise or Ambliaran rupee), and only if things get large, fork off banknote and coins. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

At present, Banknote of Alderney is not linked from Alderney pound, making it very difficult to reach. It strikes me that a much more useful scenario would be to incorporate the one Alderney banknote into Alderney pound as part of a general expansion of this article. As to Ambliara, I'm pretty sure that the single note is the only numismatic issue from that state, at least since 1801 (which is when my coin catalogue starts). Consequently, any article is going to be short. Nonetheless, I again think Ambliara rupee is the way to go due to the greater ease with which such an article can be found. In general, any numismatic article ought to be linked to and from the relevant currency articles.
Dove1950 10:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The numismatic naming convention sucks

I don't like the naming convention, as it creates a lot of difficulties, especially when a country has had more than one banknote issuer. Scotland is one of those, and Hong Kong is another. You should see the article Commonwealth banknote-issuing institutions for further information.

As for capitalising denominations, this is done in the Standard Catalog of World Paper Money and in the Standard Catalog of World Coins. - (Numismaticman 07:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC))

I am well aware of the situation in Scotland and HK. I have quite a few HKD notes myself too. So the currency taxonomy goes like this (idea stolen from )

• Regnum - currency type (Romanian leu)
• Phylum - currency system (Romanian leu (1952))
• Class - coins/notes of a currency system (notes of the Romanian leu (1952))
• Order - state notes/banknotes of a currency system
• Family - series
• Genus - note/coin type (same legal status, same value, same time in circulation)
• Species - note/coin variations

And I tend to agree. So in the case of HK, we have Hong Kong dollar (regnum of phylum because they have never redenominated). Banknotes of the Hong Kong dollar would be class, and hypothetically speaking, Banknotes of the HKBC (Hong Kong) would be order. Its 1993 series is family, and so on. The natural order of things in Wikipedia is that you start with the general, and when it grows, we split. By going to banknotes of the xyz while there is not even a currency article, it's out of order. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Coins of the South African Republic should be unmerged

This article should be reestablished as an independent article, with the articles Coins of the South African pound and Coins of the South African rand being merged to create an article titled 'Coins of South Africa', as South Africa and the South African Republic are the names of two separate entities.

The naming conventions for coin and banknote related articles suck. For example, it should be 'Coins of Somaliland', not 'Coins of the Somaliland shilling'. - (Numismaticman 22:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC))

What you're suggesting is to merge

• Coins of the Australian dollar
• Coins of the Australian pound
• Coins of Australia

into one big article

• Coins of the Hungarian forint
• Coins of the Hungarian pengő
• Coins of the Austro-Hungarian krone
• Coins of the Austro-Hungarian gulden

into one (or two) big articles.

I have provided my reason above (the taxonomy argument). What is your argument beside "it sucks"? And what counter argument do you have against mine.

In addition, we all know that you think the naming convention "sucks". You said that repeatedly. You don't need to create a new thread over and over. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:42, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Do not capitalize currency units

It has been an established guide line at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style. Just because the standard catalog does it in some way, doesn't mean we have to. The catalog also splits into 2 volumes, before and after 1960. Does that mean we need to structure Wikipedia article like that too? Look at these news articles, the word dollar is not capitalized in a sentence.

• The Economist
• BBC News
• New York Times

As I have said, currency units are not proper nouns. And units like meter and gram are not capitalized either. Even volt, a unit named after a person, is not capitalized. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Online Standard Catalog of World Coins and Standard Catalog of World Paper Money

I believe that all general numismatic articles should be written using the information that in in these two books, including the catalogue numbers, plus there should be freedom for cross-reference with other catalogue numbering systems. The currency units SHOULD be capitalised in these articles, as that is the way that it is done by the major numismatic cataloguers such as Charlton Press and Krause Publications. Here's 2 examples; Banknotes of the African Banking Corporation Limited (Rhodesia) and Banknotes of Hyderabad.

The Online Krause and Pick catalogues should be created here as a resource for collectors who are unable to afford to buy the full catalogues themselves. What do you think? - (Numismaticman 07:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC))

Wikipedia is not an online standard numismatic catalog. If you want to contribute like there, there are specialized wiki such as http://banknotewiki.com/ (even though people are spamming it with unrelated ads). But you're already contributing to that. There are rules and common understanding on Wikipedia. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Chochopk there, although I do think that applicable numismatic articles should note, where possible, the catalogue numbers of reputable catalogues. Nevertheless, wholly transforming Wikipedia into an online catalogue is contrary to what Wikipedia is, and arguably copyright infringement. -- Chris B • talk • contribs 14:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Of course Wikipedia isn't a numismatic catalogue, but the coin listings should use the style of the Standard Catalog of World Coins and the Standard Catalog of World Paper Money as a basic template. There would be room for cross-references, for example, from the Charlton catalogues (in the case of the banknotes and coins from Canada) and the Coincraft catalogues (in the case of the coins of the British Isles, the Channel Islands, Lundy, and the Isle of Man. Wikipedia has to evolve. If it fails to adapt, then it could go the same way as the dinosaurs did. - (Numismaticman 22:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC))

I agree with Chochopk and Chris.B. There is no basis for adding catalogue numbers. What purpose would this serve? Wikipedia is not a guide and there is otherwise no relevant reason to do so. And I have a question what do you mean by “currency unit”? Do you mean dollar, pound, yen, etc.? – Zntrip 23:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

While I don't mind giving reference of a standard catalog number, I do object making everything "as catalog". If you ask me, there is a better system than the catalog. It's all outlined at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style/Currency article. And evolve to what? I don't see a meteor waiting to strike Wikipedia's server if we fail to make it like a certain standard catalog. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:42, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Categories for British Empire and Commonwealth numismatic articles

I don't see anything wrong with placing articles in relation to the numismatic history of the British Empire and Commonwealth into categories divided by geographical regions. For example, the article 'Banknotes of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe' goes into the British African numismatics category, and the article 'Banknotes of Papua' goes into the British Pacific Islands numismatics category. What's wrong with that? A numismatist who is interested in that specialised area of numismatics classifies their banknotes and coins by geographical region. I see that having these categories can serve as an online geographical and history lesson at the same time. - (Numismaticman 07:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC))

How specialized then?

• Banknotes with ships?
• Banknotes with George V facing foward?
• French African numismatic before 1900?
• Commemorative banknotes with Arabic and French in sub-Saharan Africa after 1980?

--ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

CFD raised at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 14#British Empire numismatics. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Poll at “list of circulating currencies”

Please see here. – Zntrip 05:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Image Question

I just scanned a picture of a Winnipeg centennial dollar I have in my collection. I want to upload it, as it is missing from The only gallery which references it. However, I do not wish it to be deleted for copyright issues. How do I upload it correctly so that it is not removed? AbstractApproach 23:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

User:XIDE

This user has started editing many US coin articles. Some looks like vandalism. Others I am not so sure about.

What looks like vandalism

• [9]
• [10]

But I don't have the adequate references to validate all edits. Can someone help? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

How odd. Not blatant valdalism, obviously. But very strange. Just remember that "any material that is challenged and for which no source is provided may be removed by any editor". -- Chris B • talk 14:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

I was looking for a barnstar relating to numismatics. I didn't find it so I created this barnstar for anyone who does great improvements to numismatic related content.Bewareofdog 23:05, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Light Dragon Dollars etc of China

According to one websource there are at least 300 different types of light (or fake) chinese "silver" dollars. The Yuan Shi Kai yuans and the various "7 mace and 2 candareens" and "dragon dollars" are only the best known of these. They often seem to weigh between 18 and 22 grams as opposed to the [I guess] aprox 26.64 g stated weight for 7 mace and 2 candareens. They have become collectible "in their own right". Would anybody be willing to write an article about them ? I really think a good article with some info about their metal content could be very valuable, as they seem to be surfacing a lot since the precious metals prices have been rising. I would be willing to help out, but I just don't know enough about them to really do a good article. John5Russell3Finley 02:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laurie Bamford

Is he a notable numismatist? Thank you. --victor falk 22:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Advice

I have some coins which I would like to take pictures of and upload, but I can never take a good picture, as it always reflects etc, and I don't have a working scanner. Any advice on taking good coin photos with a digital camera would be most welcome. Tarcus 10:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately there's much more involved here than a paragraph answer. :-( On my site we have an entire forum dedicated to just coin photography. My suggestion would be to grab the beverage of your choice when you have about an hour or so, and sit and read. You will learn a lot, and see some great examples of photography. Enjoy! Bobby ^{I'm Here, Are You There?} 15:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I will have a look. Tarcus 06:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Coin counterfeiting

I started an article on Coin counterfeiting, I was wondering if anybody can help me with images here, I would like a picture of a fake Euro and also an old fake, like what is on this site. [11] AJUK ^Talk!! 14:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Mistakes in banknotes

Gentlemen, I hereby submit to you Commons:Category:Taiwan $1000 banknote 1999 edition for your future articles on mistakes in banknotes. Jidanni (talk) 00:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Afghanistani afghani

Hurooz keeps moving the page "Afghanistani afghani" to "Afghanistan afghani". He's left a message of my talk page telling me the word "Afghanistani" should never be used, but I don't think it should be replaced with "Afghanistan". What do you guys think? I always thought if a country ends in -stan than the adjective form ends with -stani like Pakistani, Turkmenistani, etc. – Zntrip 23:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You're not suppose to follow your thoughts here. All the other countries that end with -stan were created recently, did you know this? Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzebekistan were created as nations in 1992. Pakistan was created in 1947. Afghanistan was created in 1747, and prior to 1747, from as far as the 10th or 11th century until today, the only correct word used was and is "Afghan". For Afghanistan we only use Afghan, unless you can prove me wrong by showing reliable mentioning of the word "Afghanistani" by any official educational, government or media source. There are billions of mentionings of the word "Afghan" in the official encyclopedias, books, media, movies, newspapers, by world leaders, world politicians, world journalists, and the list goes on and on and on... Isn't that enough evidence??????? Now, show me one single "official" mentioning of afghanistani? Of course, just like with many incorrect names, you may find it mentioned by mistakes at some unreliable places, blogs.... That is NOT OFFICIAL, that's like hearing someong on the street using the word by mistake and you make a note. The most reliable and easiest way to figure out these kind of things is to rely on direct Afghan government or Afghan main media sites, to see how the people of that country write the name correctly. News site from Kabul, Afghanistan It's never the case for the Afghan government or official media to make any mistakes with their national name. The constitution of Afghanistan clearly states that the ONLY word to be used for all of its citizens is Afghan. Or better yet use the CIA factbook, where it never uses afghanistani either, it uses the correct name as Afghan afghani for the currency of Afghanistan. I had trouble to move the page to "Afghan afghani" so I left it at afghanistan afghani which is much better than afghanistani afghani. I my self am from Afghanistan and never do we citizens of Afghanistan use the word afghanistani.--Hurooz (talk) 14:36, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, if Afghan is the correct form, why do you keep moving the page to “Afghanistan afghani”? – Zntrip 03:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Numismatic Wikia

Here's a link that will be of interest to you; Numismatic Wikia - (203.211.79.187 18:51, 1 December 2007 (UTC))

Warning!, this is yet another attempt by a banned user. See Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Aidan Work and Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Numismaticman. And his user name on the wikia in question is User:Royalist0007. These are his known IPs (and domain names)

• 124.197.16.95 (124-197-16-95.callplus.net.nz)
• 202.180.98.82 (202-180-98-82.jetbuster.co.nz)
• 202.180.72.84 (202-180-72-84.jetbuster.co.nz)
• 203.211.76.52 (203-211-76-52.ue.woosh.co.nz)
• 203.211.79.187 (203-211-79-187.ue.woosh.co.nz)

--ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 16:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Japanese invasion money

If someone can find more appropriate and specific categories for Japanese invasion money? Just as a matter of curiousity, is there a specific occupation money category - or something along those lines? Cheers. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 22:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I think we should just make a new category for all the World War II fiat money. In just Asia alone there's also Japanese government-issued Philippine fiat peso, emergency circulating notes (which should be renamed), Japanese military yen, and Banana money. – Zntrip 00:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I whole heartedly agree. The names should be standardized. Are Malaysia, Oceania, and Burma omitted? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 16:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Odd definition style

I've noticed that in many currency articles the opening definition is written in what to me seems an odd style. To pick just a few random examples: Guyanese dollar starts with "The dollar (currency code GYD) has been the currency of Guyana (formerly British Guiana) since 1839"; Gibraltar pound starts "The pound (ISO 4217 currency code: GIP) is the currency of Gibraltar"; Burundian franc starts with "The franc (ISO 4217 code is BIF) is the currency of Burundi", etc.

These definitions do not satisfactorily define the term in bold, nor do they satisfactorily define the article's subject. I propose that, in general, currency articles should begin with a definition of the currency name written exactly as it is in the article's title. Thus: "The Guyanese dollar (currency code GYD) has been the currency of Guyana (formerly British Guiana) since 1839", and so on.

What do you think? Matt 12:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC).

See User talk:Dove1950#Intro. Please talk to Dove (or bring him here) if you wish to continue the discussion. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 16:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I see Dove's comments. I left a note there but I will reply here. The article title is, by implication, the correct full name of the currency. Changing the name in the opening definition doesn't, to me, clarify anything in this regard; it just looks like an oversight. Perhaps we should be titling the articles like dollar (Guyana) etc. Matt 03:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.53.193 (talk)

No, the article title is not, in general, the correct full name. In most cases, the official name of the currency omits the country name. Only the unofficial ISO 4217 includes the country name. However, it is vital that the article title includes the country name for the sake of distinction and clarity. In a first line such as "The Gibraltar pound is the currency of Gibraltar", the first Gibraltar is redundant once the whole sentence is read. If we were to adopt your idea, I would be more inclined to use dollar (Currency of Guyana) but I think we're better off as we are since it makes linking easier.
Dove1950 (talk) 13:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

"The Guyanese dollar is the currency of Guyana", to use that as an example, reads just fine to me: the Guyanese/Guyana repetition doesn't trouble me at all. However, an opening definition "The dollar is the currency of Guyana" looks wrong because it purports to be defining dollar but actually doesn't. It is also completely unobvious (to me) that the dropping of "Guyanese" in the definition is supposed to be telling me that the correct full name is just "dollar" and not "Guyanese dollar". Quite the opposite in fact: it looks as if the author just forgot to use the full name as given in the article title. Since neither of the proposed reasons for using "dollar" in the definition rather than "Guyanese dollar" actually holds water (in my opinion), and given the disadvantages of this style (i.e. it "looks wrong"), I think we would be better off using "Guyanese dollar" in the definition, assuming that we don't want to change the article title (which, as you say, might not be such a great idea). In an internationalised context, such as Wikipedia, I don't see any problem with using the disambiguated ISO name in the definition. It seems obvious to me that in local or other usages where there is no possibility of confusion, the country adjective would in practice be dropped. I wondered about "The Guyanese dollar (official name: dollar) is the currency of Guyana", but I don't like that much. ChoChoPK: what's your current view? Would you rather stick with the status quo? Anyone else? Matt 12:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.127.62 (talk)

I think it's fine the way it is. It just reduces redundancy. – Zntrip 04:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

"The dollar is the currency of Guyana" -- this could be confusing to people often using dollar currencies from other countries. For example, if you're often using US dollars, you might read the sentence as "The United States dollar is the currency of Guyana". Or if you're often using Hong Kong dollars, you might read it as "The Hong Kong dollar is the currency of Guyana". "The Guyanese dollar is the currency of Guyana" -- this is unambiguous. (Stefan2 (talk) 16:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC))