Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Podcasting/Archive 12

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Archive 12

Adding adaptations to the infobox

I was working on Homecoming (podcast) and realized that there is a page for Homecoming (TV series), which made me wonder why there isn't a parameter for adaptations in the podcast infobox. There's a whole List of podcast adaptations that could use the parameter and there are probably more. Does anyone object to adding the parameter? Any preferred words, spellings, or phrases other than just "Adaptations"? TipsyElephant (talk) 01:52, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I like the idea of a parameter for podcast adaptations or related works or something similar. Mukedits (talk) 19:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Past participants

I compiled a list of users that were on the WikiProject's participants list at some point or another at my sandbox. Some of them had been removed over time due to things like inactivity. I'm planning on creating a subpage of the WikiProject for this list, but I wanted to check if anyone on the current list is still active before doing so. I'm going to ping everyone on the list and if I don't get any responses within the next couple of months I'm going to add your username to the list I've compiled and create the subpage. If you are still active on Wikipedia and would like to stay on the member list please reply to this message. Many of you haven't been active for years so I may have already included your name on the list. @Breno, JC.Torpey, Roberticus, Thomas Craven, Acrolith, Mhollomon, Afryer, Immortal Horrors or Everlasting Splendors, AGMours, Alicepotter, PR6029.R8 A6, FinaleFile, Drewmutt, Auric, Leftist Commentary, Broccoli and Coffee, Starsandwhales, Mukilteoedits, 2pou, EverythingisntCaaDath, Timdwilliamson, FalconMillenium, and Majokthefirst: TipsyElephant (talk) 20:17, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I've decided to just create a comprehensive list and disregard whether members are active or not. You can see the list here. I'll probably add to the page in the future to improve it's layout and make it easier for new users to add themselves. TipsyElephant (talk) 13:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I haven't been an active editor this past year, so you may take me off this list. I'll add myself back to the list if that ends up changing. starsandwhales (talk) 19:33, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, but please do not remove me – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 23:19, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

@Starsandwhales and Broccoli and Coffee: I've decided to do a single comprehensive list located at Wikipedia:WikiProject Podcasting/Members instead of having one list for inactive members and another for active members. Having two lists would be too much upkeep and I don't see any other wikiprojects doing it. I've also recently added a tab header to the project so you can see the list by simply selecting the members tab. TipsyElephant (talk) 01:32, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi! Not constantly active but still around. Afryer (talk) 21:55, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Podcast Notability Discussion

Hello all, I thought it might be interesting to this group to take a look at the discussion on notability standards for podcasts @TipsyElephant and I are participating in. Phifty (talk) 18:13, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

RfC on podcast episode lists

{{rfc|media}}

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

This was a fairly low-participation RFC, but it's also been several weeks since anyone commented, indicating it has likely run its course for now. Those that did comment were generally in agreement that WP:NLIST applies without any special exception, and that in general lists of episodes, where needed, can be handled within the article about the podcast, and don't generally merit a stand-alone list article, unless such a list would pass the scrutiny per WP:NLIST. Jayron32 13:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

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Should stand-alone lists of podcast episodes be included on Wikipedia? TipsyElephant (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment There have been a couple of recent AfDs, here and here, that have called into question whether or not lists of podcast episodes are appropriate for inclusion on Wikipedia, which is what prompted this RfC. I participated in both AfDs and my opinion is that episode lists should be evaulated on a case-by-case basis. If there are reliable sources discussing the episodes as a group and/or multiple episodes are independently notable than I think the episode list passes WP:NLIST. If there are not reliable sources discussing the episodes as a group and none of the episodes are independently notable than I think the episode list does not pass WP:NLIST. The two deletion discussions also included discussion as to whether or not episode lists violate one or more examples of WP:NOT. TipsyElephant (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment It has been a week since I opened this RfC and there has been no participation so I'm pinging everyone who participated in the two deletion discussions that I mentioned above. @HelpingWorld, QuietHere, BusterD, Soetermans, Galanthis, Natrilix, Doktorbuk, Metropolitan90, Oaktree b, and MrStoofer: TipsyElephant (talk) 21:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

  The way I see it, it's just as you said above. We have WP:NLIST and we should keep relying on that standard as we've been doing. I don't see anything in either AfD that would convince me otherwise. QuietHere (talk) 21:48, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

  Barring any super terrific, award-winning, game-changing podcasts, NLIST is fine. I'd argue that most of them aren't even notable enough to warrant an article, but that's for another discussion. No point having different rules different lists. Oaktree b (talk) 00:11, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

There is plenty of Venn diagram overlap here with WP:PLOT (which is hardly enforced) that I'm concerned about talking a lot and deciding little. Let me offer two of the podcasts I listen to all the time to test the policy of detailing every episode on Wikipedia.

What brings us here is Off Menu, a comedy podcast in which two presenters ask guests for their dream meal. They ask for examples in different categories (starter, main course, dessert etc). I think 90% of the guests, if not greater, were blue-linked, so no question that the guests were notable. The two presenters were notable.

The fundamental problem is the episode detail. The food items are not notable; it was just the selection of the guest. It filled the page with scores of restaurant dishes and in-jokes. It was interesting - though trivial - to know the guest every week But one episode did not follow into the next, nor was there an over reaching narrative. I'd say therefore that listing every detail, about each meal, from every guest, was trivial overkill. Creating an article for every single starter, main, dessert, drink etc would be to replicate trivia and chit-chat onto Wikipedia; I can't see how that magnification of the mundane could be considered important.

My second favourite is The Football Ramble, a comedy football podcast. There is no argument in favour of an episode guide to be included on Wikipedia. Why not? Is it a lack of narrative? Greater sense that episodes are not automatically notable? Something is clearly different: format, content, number of episodes?

I'd say the focus should be on podcasts designed to be episodic. "The Trojan Horse Affair" or Slow Burn would be perfect for episode guide articles. That's the whole point. A comedy show about favourite side dishes? No. doktorb _words^deeds 23:22, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Other than sorting by dates, August 4th: New Sushi, August 5th: My Wasabi, seems to be a reasonable way to group them. Date:title. There's no fixed format/type when doing a podcast, most are free-form. Oaktree b (talk) 00:13, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

And that's the issue. Podcasts are freeform, can be "self produced". They're not truly notable because of this. doktorb _words^deeds 06:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Not all podcasts are freeform or self-produced. There are long scripted fiction podcasts like We're Alive, A Story of Survival and non-fiction podcasts with an over-arching narrative such as Serial. There are also quite a few podcasting companies that create shows. The question shouldn't be whether the podcasts are notable because they are freeform or self-produced (that's not what the RfC is addressing), but it seems like maybe the two of you are suggesting that episode lists make more sense for shows that have a clear plot or over-arching story? TipsyElephant (talk) 17:03, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

@Doktorbuk and Oaktree b: were the two of you suggesting that episode tables make more sense for podcasts with a clear plot? TipsyElephant (talk) 03:22, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

I was yes. Oaktree b (talk) 03:35, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

In essence, yes. If the series is just presenters chatting or summarising sports coverage or what have you, it's not a notable series, it's just a chat show. For me episode guides can only work if there is a through line or narrative. doktorb _words^deeds 05:24, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment it's been over two weeks since this RfC was opened and there has only been three participants aside from myself. I'm pinging some users who have recently contributed to this WikiProject in hopes that it generates more discussion. @FalconMillenium, Timdwilliamson, 2pou, OaklandRaider, ScottHastie, Mukilteoedits, Starsandwhales, Broccoli and Coffee, Leftist Commentary, Auric, Richard Nevell, and Tcr25: TipsyElephant (talk) 19:11, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment I'm personally not a big fan of podcast episode lists. I think we can evaluate them on a case-by-case basis, but I would favor a general rule that articles of podcast episode lists are unnecessary and think that most podcasts aren't notable enough to have a separate article on episodes. In most cases, I think episode lists can be included on the page if they are deemed necessary and only if the number of episodes becomes too great should a separate page be created. Mukedits (talk) 19:52, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Creating new categories

@Mukilteoedits, Starsandwhales, Broccoli and Coffee, Leftist Commentary, Auric, Timdwilliamson, 2pou, EverythingisntCaaDath, FalconMillenium, Richard Nevell, Sdkb, and Tcr25: I'm pinging you all because you've shown some level of involvement with the project or this topic specifically. I think Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Podcasting/Archive_6 is particularly relevant to what I'm saying here if you want a point of reference.

I'm planning on creating a category under Category:Podcasting called something like Category:Podcasts by format or Category:Podcasts by style, which will contain categories related to how content is delivered in a podcast rather than the topic. For instance, an interview podcast can focus on sports, politics, or comic books so "interview" as a descriptor has to do with the "format" as opposed to the "genre." This of course will be in contrast to Category:Podcasts by genre which will only contain categories that are typically thought of as genres or only focus on one specific topic such as Category:Horror podcasts, Category:History podcasts, Category:Political podcasts, Category:Science podcasts, and Category:Technology podcasts. Currently, the categories I intend to move from Category:Podcasts by genre to Category:Podcasts by format include Category:Actual play podcasts, Category:Improvisational podcasts, and Category:Interview podcasts. Categories I intend on creating within Category:Podcasts by format include Category:Podcast miniseries, Category:Talk show podcasts, Category:Conversational podcasts (possibly synonymous with talk show?), Category:Narrated podcasts and possibly Category:Scripted podcasts or Category:Audio drama podcasts. I understand that both scripted and audio drama can be synonymous to Category:Fiction podcasts, but I think differentiating between the genres of fiction and the format of an audio play could be helpful. I also think having a separate category called Category:Podcasts by format will help avoid confusion and prevent the unnecessary deletion of categories like what happened with Category:Talk podcasts and Scripted podcasts.

Let me know what you're thoughts are and whether you support or oppose the idea or have suggestions. TipsyElephant (talk) 14:49, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I broadly support the above because it makes sense to me and I see the value in having another type of categorisations, for the various reasons outlined above. Richard Nevell (talk) 20:43, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Seems to be well thought out and not overbroad.--Auric talk 16:04, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Any preferences between Category:Talk show podcasts and Category:Conversational podcasts or Category:Scripted podcasts and Category:Audio drama podcasts? Do you think Category:Documentary podcasts would be appropriate as well?

Unfortunately most of the sources I can find that discuss different formats for podcasting are blog posts. I'm trying to decide if I should create a category called "Narrated podcasts," "Narrative podcasts," or "Solo podcasts" TipsyElephant (talk) 20:24, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I quite like the Category:Scripted podcasts you started. It's very specific and easy to understand. The "Narrative Podcast" moniker seems a tad gray; described as "story-driven" shows, which can often apply to documentaries or other unscripted fare. Mophista (talk) 05:10, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

It looks like perhaps "narrative podcasts" and "narrated podcasts" are ambiguous phrases that could mean a podcast hosted and narrated by a single person or an audio drama with a full cast that tells a story. It seems like "solo podcasts," "monologue podcasts," or "single host podcasts" are closer to what I was going for. For instance, PodCastle, Pseudopod (podcast), and Escape Pod (podcast) all have a single narrator who reads a piece of literature for the audience. There are sometimes different hosts that do the reading on different episodes, but never more than one on each episode. "Audio book podcast" wouldn't be too far off from what I'm talking about either. TipsyElephant (talk) 13:00, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I'd prefer 'monologue podcast' over 'single host podcast' or 'solo podcast' for a couple of reasons. For example, Pseudopod has a single host per episode, but they sometimes have different hosts stepping in for episodes. 'Single host' as a navigational aid would be a little unclear for situations like that. I also think that solo podcast is a slippery term. It gives the impression that one person is doing everything, not just the talking but the editing, production, and research. And a show can start as a one-person operation but grow to involve more people as production becomes more complicated or the format changes. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:12, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

References

Agree with monologue podcast being the best descriptor. starsandwhales (talk) 04:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Okay, now the question remains whether Category:Conversational podcasts is synonymous with Category:Talk show podcasts. If I were to make a distinction between the two it would be that a talk show has a reoccurring host that guides a discussion with different guests, whereas a conversational podcast has reoccurring hosts and no or infrequent guests. Also, is it worth creating Category:Scripted podcasts or Category:Audio drama podcasts when we have Category:Fiction podcasts, and what should be the exact phrase? Are there better alternative wordings for conversational or audio drama podcasts? I also think there should be some discussion as to what is included within Category:Improvisational podcasts. TipsyElephant (talk) 13:38, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

I think the both of conversational & talk show are synonymous. The difference between a scripted podcast and a audio drama/fiction podcast is that of format. The scripted/unscripted distinction is that of format. Audio drama/fiction podcast is the genre (though the term audio drama encompasses other media). starsandwhales (talk) 04:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

We still need to write a lead paragraph explaining what should be included in Category:Improvisational podcasts so there is no confusion in the future. Is the category for any podcast that doesn't strictly adhere to a script? Is it just for comedy improv, and if so shouldn't it just be merged with Category:Comedy and humor podcasts (are there scripted comedy podcasts)? Should Actual Play podcasts be a subcategory? TipsyElephant (talk) 16:52, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Binaural recordings

We should create a category for podcasts that use binaural recording. I'm not sure what the exact wording would be, but I'll look into whether there are similar categories that I could go off of. I'll come back to this at some point. Until then, I appreciate any input. TipsyElephant (talk) 16:01, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps from the listener perspective as opposed to the recorder? To make a Category:Stereo podcasts or Category:Podcasts in stereo? Or is that over-simplifying? 2pou (talk) 16:48, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense I think. Doing a quick google search I found this blog post that gave a pretty simple explanation of the different types of audio. I also found Category:Binaural recordings. So I guess the question then becomes: Do we need a separate category for Binaural podcasts? Do we make it a subcategory of Binaural recordings or place it somewhere in the Podcasting category hierarchy. Probably both? TipsyElephant (talk) 17:10, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Musical theater podcasts

I think I might make a category for musical theater podcasts. For instance, podcasts like 36 Questions, In Strange Woods, and Draft:Anthem: Homunculus. I'll probably wait a little bit so I can create a couple more articles that would fall into the category. If anyone knows of others that do or don't have articles yet. TipsyElephant (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Off Book: The Improvised Musical may well be notable. Richard Nevell (talk) 19:07, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I started a draft for it: Draft:Off Book: The Improvised Musical. It appears to be notable. TipsyElephant (talk) 12:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I've created the category: Category:Musical theatre podcasts. I'm planning on adding Draft:Little Did I Know and Draft:Electric Easy once I publish them to mainspace. TipsyElephant (talk) 12:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

More genres

Any thoughts on creating Category:Thriller podcasts? I'm seeing the genre mentioned quite a bit more recently with higher-end productions from companies like QCode. TipsyElephant (talk) 17:54, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

I went ahead and created the thriller category and there were plenty of podcasts that were already appropriate to include. TipsyElephant (talk) 17:27, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

We could probably make a category for sitcom podcasts as well. I'm less confident that there are currently enough articles on this subject though. TipsyElephant (talk) 02:33, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Right now, I'm only seeing two sitcom podcasts Wooden Overcoats and Cabin Pressure (radio series). If I find more or create a couple more I might create the category. For now, I'll wait. TipsyElephant (talk) 17:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Looks like we could also include Wolf 359 and Beef and Dairy Network Podcast according to Podsauce. TipsyElephant (talk) 02:48, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Draft:The Carlötta Beautox Chronicles is also a sitcom podcast. I'm not sure if there is enough coverage to warrant a stand-alone article, but it's been a finalist in a few awards. TipsyElephant (talk) 15:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

QCode podcasts

If anyone is interested in collaborating on some new drafts I started some for a few of the QCode podcasts. Feel free to contribute to Draft:The Edge of Sleep, Draft:Soft Voice, Draft:Carrier (podcast), Draft:Electric Easy, and it looks like someone else started a draft for Draft:Last Known Position. TipsyElephant (talk) 13:48, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I also started one for Draft:Hank the Cowdog (podcast). TipsyElephant (talk) 21:59, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I've published The Edge of Sleep, Carrier (podcast), Electric Easy, and Hank the Cowdog (podcast) to mainspace. The remaining drafts are Draft:Soft Voice and Draft:Last Known Position if anyone is interested in contributing. I believe Last Known Position has been nominated for a 2023 Ambies award. TipsyElephant (talk) 15:58, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Reached my goal

I've reached my goal of starting 100 articles on podcasts! Here's the list if anyone is interested: User:TipsyElephant/Objectives. TipsyElephant (talk) 19:55, 2 April 2023 (UTC)