Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Post

This is the news talk of QAI
(aka the cabal of the outcasts) where we share ideas and values

A happy and peaceful 2016 to all members and guests, - let's make it a year of the reader! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Open for review

FA
Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125 SMS Schwaben
PR
Der 100. Psalm
GA
The Wood Nymph

This project talk page, begun on 29 April 2015, is for discussion of short news and tips related to the improvement of article quality. Feel welcome, and please sign your entries. It's also an invitation to review articles by project members and friends as shown in the box, - feel free to add articles you know, new ones on top, DYK only for urgent matters please.

The project created a new prize for Impact, in memory of Dreadstar who was a silent supporter from the beginning and fought bravely for ideas and values. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Recordings of classical music

Please compare Marga Schiml and her discography, compiled by Tim. I see too little detail in the first and too much in the second. It made me dream of having an entry for each recording of classical music (comparable to the entries for DYK nomination) which could collect detailed infomation, and of having a template which selects the information presented on a given performer's page, from only showing "performer took part in that recording" to more detail, specifying for example that major other performers should show but not minor ones, or that the names of performers (orchestra etc) should be in English or in the native language. Thoughts? How to collect data and store it. How to write selections. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Alakzi, Andy, ideas? - I think of the template for public art, for example. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

It sounds like a job for Wikidata. The perennial issue with maintaining such a database is that (a) it should not be coded in articlespace, and (b) ideally, none of the content should be kept in the Module or Template namespaces. In other words, separation of concerns is not made possible by the software; we cannot decouple information from code. Pinging RexxS, who might have some ideas. Alakzi (talk) 12:35, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

We were discussing this; I can't recall where. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:10, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:44, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

ps: Simpler: could we put a recording on the article of the work, and link to that by some standard label. I think it would be wrong to have an entry with all these details (only) on the page of a singer in a minor role. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:19, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

My first thoughts are that Wikidata isn't sufficiently well developed to do the job yet. We have two much-needed features that are not yet implemented in mw.wikibase: (1) we can't yet read the wikidata for any entity other than the one belonging to the Wikipedia page where we invoke the module; (2) we can't yet run a query across Wikidata to select values to be returned from multiple entries. Magnus has tools that will do those sort of jobs (and more), but they run from tool labs and I don't think we can transclude their output into a Wikipedia page.

The only thing I can suggest for now is to carry on creating and expanding flat-file databases as list articles, like Marga Schiml discography. (I don't believe in the concept of "too much" detail in databases!) Make sure they are all in a well-defined category, like Category:Lists of classical music recordings or one that already exists. That has the advantage that anybody who knows how to edit Wikipedia can input data to help populate these sort of lists. At some point in the future, bots can be used to extract and collate the data if we keep the structure (column headers) as similar as possible. Eventually, Wikidata will catch up and provide the functionality we need; at that point we'll have a database ready to import (via bot) into Wikidata, and we'll be able to code modules to create the kind of rich, dynamic articles you're looking for. Thoughts? --RexxS (talk) 14:16, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Indeed - but if we use templates for each table row at the same time, as per the earlier discussion referenced above, data entry and data extraction will both be easier. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:15, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I've made a first draft at {{Classical discography row}}. I suggest we discuss its development on its talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:42, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Movements of compositions

Alakzi, Andy, everybody interested: Similarly, I like to collect thoughts on the tables of movements of compositions, looking at BWV 11 and Missa Dona nobis pacem. I think of a header (with optional columns), but also possible subheader defining the degree of detail which will result in even more different numbers of columns. I don't know if that can be done, or if we should go for different templates for types of works. All parameters are optional

Header:

1. some number
   1. part number
   2. movement number
2. text
   1. incipit
   2. translation
   3. source
3. scoring
   1. vocal solo
   2. vocal choir
   3. instrumental brass
   4. instrumental winds
   5. instrumental strings
   6. instrumental other
4. marking
   1. tempo
   2. key
   3. time
5. notes

Questions, on top of the main question:

• In Bach works, I would like the different instruments neatly separated (because they make the structured sounds visible), but if possible taking less room, - shorter headers, rather explaining in prose.
• Compared to the cantata as it is, I would like to have the text source separately.
• In BWV 143a, I used colour to highlight the structure, - could that be achieved somehow?
• For many pieces - symphonies - the movements have no title other than a number.
• Things missing? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:45, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

This would be easier to do in a single template with row-numbered parameters, than separate header, row and footer templates, which would make toggling columns a bit of a nightmare. I'll take a closer look a little later. Alakzi (talk) 11:31, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Composer works list

Alakzi, Andy, everybody interested: Similarly, I think of a sortable list of works by a composer, looking at Ernst Pepping#Selected works. Collecting what we might want to know, and then able to sort by:

1. catalogue number
2. title
3. translation
4. genre
5. form
6. scoring
7. year composed
8. year published
9. link(s) to recording(s)
10. link to sound file
11. notes

Anything else?

I imagine a template for the header with the parameters for the specific case (which may be just two), and a template for the entry. Thoughts --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

A sortable list? Is that something that has been attempted before? Alakzi (talk) 13:36, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't know. I see that for several composers, there is a list by op no, and another by genre, - a horror in terms of redundancy, - and then they speak of the infobox as redundant ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

It's now realized in Carl Nielsen works, a model for other such lists I think, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:40, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Sort

When you have to sort, prefer {{sortdate}} and {{sortname}} vs. the hidden sort {{hs}}. Exceptions:

• use hidden sort for an entry where you want to use {{ill}}
• use hidden sort for an entry where you want to use {{nowrap}} (example for both) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:00, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

BWV 38

The template {{cantata discography row}} has been successfully used in several articles on Bach's cantatas, for example BWV 180. Please discuss its use here: Talk:Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir, BWV 38#Recordings as a table? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:44, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

In that context, the question came up to make one column not sortable, optionally. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Interlanguage link

28 April 2015 by Gerda Arendt

There are many advantages of {{ill}} over a simple red link for articles which have an entry in another language:

• It offers the same red link, so there is no disadvantage.
• It shows in small letters that there is a link to a different language, in this case "(de)" for German.
• People not able to read German get at least the information that the person is notable in the German Wikipedia.
• Anybody able to read German can get information by clicking on the little red link.
• Truly helpful people go to the German Wikipedia and start an article in English, which replaces the red link by a normal blue one.
• For the helpful person, it's easier to have the link to the other language ready, - compared to a search if there is one.

copied trom project page --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:43, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject Intertranswiki

28 April 2015 by Gerda Arendt:

QAI members support Wikipedia:WikiProject Intertranswiki, check if you can do the same.

• I speak English, and one other language - fluently. :-) Ched :  ?  09:57, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement?

Arbitration examines its own enforcement. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Should a writer's template list his titles?

This question came up at Template talk:Franz Kafka#Titles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:10, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Rather obvious that the answer is yes. Maybe English first per WP:ENGLISH but still, yes. Montanabw^(talk) 17:42, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Wagner

Just when we though the Great Infoboxes War was over: 3 reverts and 5 discussions, main Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera#Infoboxes - Wagner operas., + articles Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Tannhäuser (opera) and das --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:19, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm kind of thinkng that we should just let the small articles stay without, keep the infoboxes for the longer articles. I'll comment a bit there. Montanabw^(talk) 03:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Why should the smaller ones be treated differently? An image of a young composer would be helpful at a glance, and also the little information about the inspiring text source and the date as far as we know it. {{tl:infobox opera}} is always short, by design, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:38, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

The prototype discussion is on Talk:Das Liebesverbot, where you supplied 5 arguments on 26 August 2013, remember? Bottom line: the side navbox is redundant to the (yes, later added) bottom navbox, for all works by Wagner. It contains nothing about the work in question. Do we need any other argument? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:44, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

You are right - I can't remember my arguments from last week! The side navbox in a collapsed form is useless. I was trying to figure out a way to give Smerus a nod to a couple of articles, but not sure how. Montanabw^(talk) 08:48, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Give other nods, this seems accepted. For the small articles, I reduced the pic size. Watchers: don't use fixed image sizes! In good infobox templates, such as opera, you have a parameter upright. In not so good ones, use an included image with an upright factor, and demand the parameter.for the template.

Would it be difficult to have an inclusion count for an infobox which tells how many of the total number are actually in articles, not on talk pages? The statistic for opera is wrong because there was so much discussion in 2013 with several suggestions on one talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:34, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Image not shown

image with specification 300px

same image with para upright=1.3

Generally: fixed image sizes should be avoided, better is |upright= which reflects a readers preferences (compare). One image, however, type svg, didn't show with |upright= but properly with a fixed size. This was a question at the village pump. - More recently, that same image didn't show at all (see the example,- it showed when the question was asked), until RexxS converted it to type png. Thank you! The question why other images - also type svg - don't show "upright" remains, compare:

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:25, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata - infobox - background

Background collected for project Women in Red, in response to an interesting discussion about the relation between the topics, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:51, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Breast cancer awareness

It's the month again, and I made a template, {{User breast cancer awareness support}}, looks like this,

This user supports breast cancer awareness.

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Upright factor instead of fixed image size

As discussed on Talk:Frank Sinatra, image sizes are still often defined as a fixed pixel number, but it is better to provide a factor of "upright" which adjusts the display to a user's preferences. Instead of "300px" code "upright=1.3", and if you encounter an infobox template which does not yet provide |image_upright=, please add it in this fashion, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:23, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Upright factor instead of fixed image size in infobox

• {{Infobox person}} seems not to support the parameter. Help? - See Talk:Frank Sinatra, where the topic is discussed, but (temporarily) a fixed size in the infobox. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:18, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

• Unfortunately {{Infobox person}} (protected) and {{Infobox}} don't support an upright factor. You can introduce it anyway like this: |image=[[File:MonkeyForestPietá.jpg|76px]] (used on my talk), or |image=[[File:Maria Radner.jpg|frameless|upright=0.7]] (used for Maria Radner), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:21, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Better don't collapse infoboxes

Reminder of an old discussion: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes/Archive 7#Collapsed or hidden infoboxes, - the topic came up again at the technical village pump. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:47, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Template Based on

Use {{Based on}} in infoboxes, such as film and opera! Thank you, Softlavender, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:46, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Discussing Il ritorno d'Ulisse in patria, the wish was expressed to have "Homer's Odyssey", author first, last name only, then the work without a new line. I can imagine the template to return that on request. Andy, Alakzi, thoughts? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:31, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Should weuse it for |chorale= in {{infobox Bach composition}} for chorale cantatas? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:52, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Precious

A reason to celebrate: today is the anniversary of Precious, the project's price for precious support, given the 1000th time, after uncounted Awesome Wikipedians have been identified before, started in 2007. Note that there's now a template in the style of a QAI box: {{user awesome}} which you can give yourself and others, alternatively to a user box. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:51, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

That is a reason to celebrate! Thanks for keeping it going for so long. -- Khazar2 (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I slowed down though, due to health issues. I don't look every day but only pass another one when I see something special. Feel free to help, I may write a template for that also to make it easier. Every user should get it only once, but reminders of an anniversary day or for a special achievement are unlimited ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

The first two templates were created. Help? The anniversary template says "A year ago" for now, - how would I get from an optinal variable |years=2 to "Two years", 3 "Three years"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:05, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Deletion to Quality Award

I've created the WP:Deletion to Quality Award.

This recognizes editors who've taken a page previously considered for deletion — to Featured Article or Good Article quality.

The award is inspired by the Wikipedia:Million Award, the Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron, and the Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement.

Please see Wikipedia:Deletion to Quality Award.

Thank you,

— Cirt (talk) 09:27, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Great idea! Too many articles at AfD can pass notability, they just are poorly-written. Montanabw^(talk) 02:04, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Articles on women

Fight the gender gap: write articles on women

This is a project where about half of the active members are women. We promote fighting/closing/filling the gender gap by writing and improving articles on women. Spread the news or rather invitation by using {{User women}}. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk before you block

The following thoughts were first caused by a specific situation, but should be applied generally, to avoid that quality content is not created because of a wrong block:

• An edit offends you, but is it important for Wikipedia? Only if yes,
• Talk to other experienced admins if they feel the same. Only if yes,
• Talk to the user who offended, tell the user how you feel about it, trying to achieve modification or revert. Only if no,
• Consider a block. If the user is a content editor, think once more if the loss of content during the block time is worth it. Only if you think yes,
• Look if you blocked the same editor before. If yes, find someone else to do it.

The image on my user page is a constant reminder of the message for which it was designed: "ps Every day, we lose what the wrongly blocked would have given that day. And a little bit of our souls." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:05, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Thoughts about arbitration enforcement, a contradiction in terms

Changes for higher quality are changes, some editors don't like them. As a result project members have been before the arbitration committee and its enforcement, every time a waste of time which could have been invested in content.

Thoughts before enforcing arbitration or asking for it

I dream of a Wikipedia where AE is not needed and offer small steps in the direction. Imagine you see something I did which you think breaches my restrictions.

• You reflect if it really needs correction. You have the option to decide no.

If yes:

• You talk to me if I am aware of a breach and willing to revert or correct.

If no:

• You look really hard if the situation is a breach. I could tell you examples where it wasn't but want to be gentle with people who easily say "It's a clear violation".

If you think yes:

• You reflect if a correction via AE is worth the amount of time it takes. Please stay away if no.
• Only then you file or act.

1. I have seen "peanuts" arrive at AE, and I suggest to make the step "talk to the user in question before you file" mandatory.
2. Once filed, I think that a time for comments of 24 hours is not asking too much in cases where Wikipedia is not at stake. The key question should be: will pursuing the request will help Wikipedia? Dispute resolution might offer a better approach.
3. I suggest that admins who are known to be close to the filer or the other editor stay away from closing.
4. I suggest to seriously think about a different sanction than blocks. I was close several times and always thought that a block wouldn't be my loss but Wikipedia's, One day blocked may equal to one article not expanded to GA, or several stubs not created, several incidents of vandalism not managed. I hope you don't expect me to change my mind because of a block ;)

I read today "If we would grant each other the presumption that we are acting in good faith, we could dispense with some of the drama ...".

Gerda Arendt 30 June 2015

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

QAIbox

'tis the season

The QAI userbox was deleted. Do you remember which image of a stone mason it showed? - Introducing {{User QAIbox}} - if you find one of the models attractive and fitting, feel free to use and change. Topics as of today are membership, kindness, women, spirale of justice, popcorn and monster (created on Halloween). Help with formatting the image frame as in this box is welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

For the latter, Alakzi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I miss the userbox. Montanabw^(talk) 06:26, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Do you remember it well enough to recreate it? Or a similar one? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:43, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I dug through commons for that image and couldn't find it.  :'-( .Montanabw^(talk) 07:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps it was uploaded by an alleged sockpuppet of banned user? Then deleted, "naturally"? A GA with a review by Drmies was deleted because the principal author is an alleged sockpuppet of a banned user. The article was rescued only after protests (including mine), and other valuable content is still deleted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:52, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

St Cecilia's Day, Thanksgiving and Advent

St Cecilia's Day

A Boy was Born

Music in your ears and heart! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:58, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanksgiving Shout for joy

Advent go dream

For a model of a user box see Yash!. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:08, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

I hope that it is not wrong to use it in this way since it is the 'QAI'box. I will remove it if this is not the way in which it was meant to be used :) Yash! 09:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear, I said model! It's great and inspirational! It's "a" QAIbox, not "the", free for all to use, adapt, pass to others. - Can someone with technical gifts tell me how we can change the template to have the option of having several in a row, instead of having them all right-aligned. I miss Alakzi. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

PDbox

PDbox is my sloppy name for an infobox with the minimal content about a person which was so far held in Persondata. A better name is welcome. A discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers, a project with reservation against anything called infobox. You may have seen a PDbox (just not called that way) on Bach, Beethoven, Grainger, Handel, Ketelbey, to name just a few. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:38, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Delete?

A user template to remind admins about considerations before a block, {{user talk before you block}}, is up for deletion, so the code parked here:

Talk before you block

• An edit offends you, but is it important for Wikipedia?

Only if you think yes,

• Talk to other experienced admins if they feel the same.

Only if they think yes,

• Talk to the user who offended, tell the user how you feel about it, trying to achieve modification or revert.

Only if no,

• Consider a block. If the user is a content editor, think once more if the loss of content during the block time is worth it.

Only if you think yes,

• Look if you blocked the same editor before. If yes, find someone else to do it.

25 August 2015

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:18, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

10 July 2016

10 July

It took only 300 years to restore the good name of Grace Sherwood, known as The Witch of Pungo. The article was written by Rlevse, later PumpkinSky, who initiated this project. It was TFA on 31 October 2010, but removed from the Main page due to close paraphrasing. Years later, project members improved the article, back to FA status. We miss users, some whose names should be restored. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:07, 10 July 2016 (UTC)