Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs/Archive 27

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Archive 27

File:Siouxsie Passenger.jpg nominated for discussion

Link: Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2024 March 11#File:Siouxsie Passenger.jpg. George Ho (talk) 23:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Lowercasing sought for UK Singles Chart#Requested move 12 March 2024

All of the UK Singles Chart articles have been nominated to be titled in lowercase (UK singles chart]] in an RM which may be of interest to this WikiProject. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:43, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Project_Songs/500

Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs/500

I think it might be useful to put the above project link someone as a sublink on this page. Thoughts? Electricmaster (talk) 14:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

File:Get Ready For This - 2 Unlimited.ogg nominated for discussion

Link: Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2024 April 16#File:Get Ready For This - 2 Unlimited.ogg. George Ho (talk) 04:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:She'll Be Coming 'Round the Mountain#Requested move 2 April 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:She'll Be Coming 'Round the Mountain#Requested move 2 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 17:29, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Song by Cherry Valentine?

Please see Talk:Cherry Valentine. An unregistered editor updated the article to remove mention of a song. I reverted, for now, but I could use help from others to help determine if "Stay Here Forever" is by the subject. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

(A rather old) PR for Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song)

Hi all! A couple months ago, I submitted the above article for a peer review with the hopes of getting it featured. The link is at Wikipedia:Peer review/Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song)/archive1; if anyone is interested, I would love any feedback I can get on how to improve the article to where it is the best it can be :) Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 20:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

"Songs in the style of" phenomenon

Is there any article which mention phenomenon "songs in the style of"? For example, songs with "Alan Walker Style" in place of artist name. Eurohunter (talk) 18:50, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I am not acquainted with the phenomenon. Does the style-name replace the performer or the composer? Is this form used in the publication credits of the song? —Tamfang (talk) 07:14, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Tamfang: Yes style-name replace the performer. I mean, there are artists which don't promote their names, they just do "Alan Walker Style" music. Eurohunter (talk) 18:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:She Used to Be Mine (Sara Bareilles song)#Requested move 9 May 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:She Used to Be Mine (Sara Bareilles song)#Requested move 9 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 05:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Halfway to Hell (song)#Requested move 7 May 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Halfway to Hell (song)#Requested move 7 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 15:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Set of TRAGICALLY HIP SONGS, alphabetized.

I just noticed a few gaps here that might easily be amended:

Category:The_Tragically_Hip_songs

Missing are a song beginning with "O", songs "On the Verge" and "One Night in Copenhagen" are o(bvious,missions,ff_the top_of_this_end_user's_head). Also, if classed as bibliographies circa the Dewey Decimal System then "Werewithal, The" begins the W class in absentia. If non admissible then "When the Weight Comes Down" doesn't require any concessions. Both on the Album "Up To Here" but that doesn't count for U as it is an album. For the U, "Use it Up" suffices nicely. Y="Yer Not The Ocean", fellas and I rest my contribution with my failure to think of Tragically Hip Songs beginning with J, Q, X, Z. They should be made "The"s × 4 when playing Tragically Hip Scrabble, for keeps.

Thanks Wikipeople, John on the Lawn 2001:569:7D78:6300:AD03:C4CA:2572:AFAA (talk) 06:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

I fully admit I don't understand entirely what you're saying, but let me try and respond with what I can. For one, none of the songs you mention have existing articles or even redirects, which they would need to be added to this or any categories. Categories are navigational tools, so they won't necessarily contain every single possible entry because not all of those would actually be useful for navigational purposes. As far as I'm aware, there are no rules against creating redirects for all these songs and adding them to this category, but there's probably not much point in doing it anyway. And if your concern is with alphabetization, I believe WP:SORTKEY would help explain our methodology in that regard. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 09:03, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Audio sample for "I'm Not A Juvenile Delinquent" article page

Greetings,

How are you? Also, for "I'm Not a Juvenile Delinquent," is that okay if I may add an audio sample on the article that signifies a song? Or is it preferred not to be added? Thanks!

Best regards,

Inajd. Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 02:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

There's one there already.Doctorhawkes (talk) 08:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Gangnam Style

Greetings,

How are you? I don't like to sound nosy or anything, but how did Psy's single Gangnam Style have its eponymous category, unlike the rest of the singles? If I am not mistaken. Would you like to explain in simple terms? Just curious.

Thanks,

Inajd. Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 02:18, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Because there are multiple associated articles which have been placed in it, and clearly some editor thought it would be helpful to be able to navigate between those articles. Not very many songs get eponymous categories (you can see them all in Category:Wikipedia categories named after musical compositions), but it makes sense to me why this one would. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 02:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Is that okay if I take a screenshot for future reference regarding category? Thanks! Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 03:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

No one can stop you! —Tamfang (talk) 03:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

This is true! But also you have my permission if you think you really need it. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 03:44, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Friday (Rebecca Black song)#Requested move 7 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Friday (Rebecca Black song)#Requested move 7 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 12:22, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Royals (Lorde song)#Requested move 7 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Royals (Lorde song)#Requested move 7 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 12:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Eponymous category for "Why Do Fools Fall in Love (song)" article

Greetings everyone,

How are you? Just curious, since there are articles associated with the article "Why Do Fools Fall in Love (song)," would that be okay if I may add "Category:Why Do Fools Fall in Love." Thanks!

I asked anyone about why "Gangnam Style" article has its own eponymous category and one person (QuietHere) explained that "there are multiple associated articles which have been placed in it, and clearly some editor thought it would be helpful to be able to navigate between those articles." Thanks!

Best regards,

Inajd. Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 03:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

• I've nominated the category for deletion. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 21:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Ae Fond Kiss (song)#Requested move 1 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Ae Fond Kiss (song)#Requested move 1 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 22:17, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Wife ((G)I-dle song)#Requested move 30 May 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Wife ((G)I-dle song)#Requested move 30 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • [𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 04:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank You Darling nominated for deletion

The article about the song Thank You Darling is now nominated for deletion. More input there is welcome. George Ho (talk) 14:10, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Shoop (song)#Requested move 18 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Shoop (song)#Requested move 18 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 14:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguating song artist categories

For the songs of Feeder (band) we have Category:Feeder songs but for the songs of Reef (band) we have Category:Reef (band) songs. These can't both be correct - should we disambiguate or not? I have seen other categories disambiguated in this way but I don't know if it is necessary. --Jameboy (talk) 09:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I believe the category should follow the band article name, so it should be Category:Feeder (band) songs, but I'll wait for others to chime in. Richard3120 (talk) 15:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

This disinterested passerby agrees. —Tamfang (talk) 07:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

|album= parameter

When exactly to and not to include |album= parameter in infoboxes for songs? I have read what Template:Infobox song#album says, but that doesn't clarify much. How exactly do we decide whether a song is from that album or not? (i mean, of course, if it's in the track listing, we'll mention it was later included in that album, but what about using the parameter itself?) Do we rely on announcements, trailers, or any mentions by the artist/label? Though the discussion doesn't exactly start with this, a little more context is present here. Thank you. Lunar-akaunto／talk 15:01, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:What a Way to Live (song)#Requested move 22 June 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:What a Way to Live (song)#Requested move 22 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 00:13, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Split of Whitney Houston's I Will Always Love You needed

The consensus so far has unanimously agreed to split the I Will Always Love You#Whitney Houston version. Nonetheless, I figured it's a lot of work, so help is needed. Thanks! George Ho (talk) 17:43, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I performed the split. Someone else might have to clean up stuff. Heartfox (talk) 21:04, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Water Under the Bridge#Requested move 1 July 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Water Under the Bridge#Requested move 1 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Enter Sandman

Enter Sandman has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. λ NegativeMP1 03:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

"Credits and personnel" or "Personnel"?

Which one is the most appropriate? Besides, should we include songwriting credits? I've seen that some articles do include them in this section, while others don't. Additionally, do we type the artists' real or stage names? Jvaspad (talk) 19:20, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

"Credits and personnel" seems redundant to me; I would pick one or the other, but never use both.

Songwriting credits make more sense in the track listing section to me, especially when organized by {{track listing}}, so I wouldn't bother repeating them in both sections.

I would think which name to use would be decided by what's used in the liner notes, and if for some reason that isn't enough default to whichever is the common name. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 20:14, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Round Here#Requested move 16 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Round Here#Requested move 16 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Our Song (Taylor Swift song)#Requested move 23 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Our Song (Taylor Swift song)#Requested move 23 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Sales certifications on first release

The current practice of using BPI sales and streaming data for certification means that the information is almost meaningless. In the days of paper sources, a song might be highlighted as having achieved certification as a result of sales associated with a successful chart run. While it is of some interest that songs may achieve certification long afterwards, it's not the same as doing so at the time, and any understanding of cultural impact and the artist's career will be misled if, for example, 30 years later a notorious flop is used in an advert and shows on here as a gold record even though its commercial failure led to the band breaking up. I think it would be better if we showed both historic certifications and current ones. Martinlc (talk) 14:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

@Martinlc: How would you like to distinguish historic certifications and current ones? Certifications given 30 years ago or 3 days ago are both historic. I know what you mean, but how would you like to distinguish it? 1, 5, 10, 25 or 30 years and why 25 not just 5 or why not 30 years. Btw. there will be still new certifications in next 50 years for releases released 20, 30 years go or now. Eurohunter (talk) 15:01, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

What you're describing sounds like it would be easily solved by including all that information in prose and including the date of certification in the cert table. Not sure I see what the problem is beyond that, nor do I think there's any reason to distinguish between the two. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 03:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Dispute at Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär

The article Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär was recently created by User:Tamtam90, and I thank them for that. However, the (unsourced) translation is an utter misrepresentation of the German text. The mistranslation of Wenn to 'When' is what caught my eye first. On closer reading, their English text has often no equivalent in the German. I gave more details at Talk:Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär#Disputed translation.

While correcting the translation, I also made more that half a dozen other improvements – some quite substantial – as described in my edit summaries. Tamtam90 reverted them all, twice. I would welcome the input of other editors in this matter. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:26, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, you are certainly right. Purposely translating text incorrectly so it would fit the music better is absurd. AstonishingTunesAdmirer 連絡 01:06, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

How many poets would publish here their [translated] song-books, under a free license, in the sight of such reviewing? --Tamtam90 (talk) 14:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Attracting poets is not the goal of Wikipedia. AstonishingTunesAdmirer 連絡 15:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Nor to undo their original inputs by "just so walkers". --Tamtam90 (talk) 15:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Please consult WP:OR. What are "just so walkers"? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

• Poetic translation doesn't need to be completely identical to the original. I don't know why the awesome text (which you put instead of my original translation) must impress the readers as a song. Nevertheless, I already published (under a free license) 50 my translations into another tongue, and some (though still here, within the articles) in en-wiki. The source of the current translation is here. --Tamtam90 (talk) 14:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

• That "source" fails WP:RS. This discussion should take place at the article's talk page. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Runrig singles proposed merge discussions

There are several proposed merge discussions regarding Runrig singles that may be of interest to this WikiProject:

• Talk:The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond § Proposed merge of Loch Lomond (Runrig song) into The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond
• Talk:The Cutter and the Clan § Proposed merge of Protect and Survive (song) into The Cutter and the Clan
• Talk:Searchlight (album) § Proposed merge of News from Heaven into Searchlight (album)
• Talk:The Big Wheel (album) § Proposed merge of Flower of the West into The Big Wheel (album)
• Talk:Amazing Things (Runrig album) § Proposed merge of The Greatest Flame and Wonderful (Runrig song) into Amazing Things (Runrig album)
• Talk:Proterra (album) § Proposed merge of Empty Glens into Proterra (album)
• Talk:The Stamping Ground § Proposed merge of Book of Golden Stories into The Stamping Ground
• Talk:In Search of Angels § Proposed merge of Maymorning into In Search of Angels
• Talk:Mara (album) § Proposed merge of Things That Are (song) into Mara (album) voorts (talk/contributions) 02:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Fe!n#Requested move 30 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Fe!n#Requested move 30 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 02:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Writers vs performers

Songs are a pain to credit because of the widespread erroneous assumption that a performer must be the sole creator of the song. This doesn't happen much in categories other than music; almost nobody thinks an article should begin with "Hamlet is a play by Kenneth Branagh" or "Football (soccer) is a sport invented by Lionel Messi" or "Harry Potter is a book by Daniel Radcliffe" – but in articles about songs this exact type of obvious mistake happens on a regular basis, maybe even most of the time.

I'm sure my own preference for fixing this would be quite unpopular – to credit every song first to its writers without exception (for example no performer in the short description), and to list the well-known performers after that – but it does have the advantages of not being insane, and of being how things are normally done in all other relevant categories.

It's a bit different for an article about a particular recording, but not SO different; being careful to type "Elvis Presley recording", and to not type "Elvis Presley song" unless he really wrote it, isn't very difficult.

But assuming my ideas aren't the best way, I think it's still clear that the current way obscures reality quite a bit, and needs review. TooManyFingers (talk) 04:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I'm also sure your preference will be quite unpopular. For one, most popular music has been consistently credited primarily to recording artists rather than songwriters, and that crediting comes from reliable sources which we base our articles on. Since all those reliable sources follow that convention, why shouldn't we? And it's not like any given song article excludes the writers; they appear in the infobox and the lead quite consistently. And your method would come with the implication that recording a song isn't itself an act of creation, which just makes no sense. I'm sure there are numerous exceptions where it does make more sense to lead with the songwriters, but it would never work as a blanket rule. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 08:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't agree with "to not type Elvis Presley song". If it's Elvis Presley song written by X and Y it's still his song - it works this way. Eurohunter (talk) 14:55, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I absolutely agree that writers/composers should be credited first in article text. That is the case in most articles about songs I have seen and edited here. The sub-credit for a song page (seen when you find a song's title in the search bar) is derived from the info box in the article - and often can go to the first or most popular version released (e.g., '1966 Single by Wanda Jackson') but the article text in this particular example begins:

"The Box It Came In" is a song written by Vic McAlpin (1918–1980) and recorded by American country, rock and roll and Christian music artist Wanda Jackson.

By the same token, it is also acceptable to say (to take another example):

"The Ballroom Blitz" (often called "Ballroom Blitz") is a song by British glam rock band The Sweet, written by Nicky Chinn and Mike Chapman.

In the case of a popular standard, the form for the article sub-credit is often, e.g., 'Song by George and Ira Gershwin' -- and then the recording history is noted in the article with such qualifiers as "popularized by", "originally recorded by", "with hit/charting versions by [multiple artists]" etc.

As a lifelong music consumer, career music / arts journalist, and a radio DJ who plays a lot of cover versions and fills his playlists with song data, I am a stickler for historical and factual accuracy.

But I will admonish (since you use Elvis Presley as an example) that music publishing & songwriting attribution can be a sticky, dishonest business, filled with false / contestable credits added to misdirect royalties away from the actual writers* (including the artists). Often, publicly contested authorship is (and should be) noted in the article about that song.

Instances of this have been common for decades, notably in the credits on nearly every Elvis Presley recording (chalk that up to Col. Tom Parker's insistence on this practice for anything Elvis recorded) - and in almost every Phil Spector production, e.g. Mann/Weill compositions that are rendered as 'Spector/Mann/Weill'; although a case for authorship as an 'arranger' can be made here. (notably, many producers are so credited, as songwriters but not as arrangers.) But the extent of a producer's actual authorship as a credited 'songwriter' - or an artist as 'arranger', in the case of someone like Burl Ives garnering additional income from traditional/public domain songs - on thousands of songs, may never be fully determined.

(*My own personal cause in this situation is the standard "You Belong to Me," written by Chilton Price but forever credited to two others (not even in addition to, but in place of her!), Pee Wee King & Redd Stewart, who managed to split credit with her for Stewart's first recording of the song, and have been attached to its 'writing' ever since, as with Ms. Price's previous work, King's only No. 1 hit, "Slow Poke". Excellent article about the songwriter and this odd arrangement, from the Internet Archive: http://www.cincypost.com/2002/sep/27/cloon092702.html)

Respectfully submitted for your consideration... Dano67 (talk) 16:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)