Wikipedia talk:WikiProject St. Louis/Transportation
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Arbitrary section 1
edit(Jordan S. Wilson (talk) 19:30, 14 December 2009 (UTC)) This is going to take alot of work!!
Major streets
editSeveral newly-created street articles do not have enough information to show why they are notable streets, beyond the fact that they exist and have this or that on them. If a street is a historical street, or is a numbered state highway or better, that should be enough. However, streets which are highways may be merged into the highway if there is nothing particularly special about that stretch of road. "Leads the Gateway Arch" - not good enough. "Dates to the early 19th century" - much better. "Was the busiest surface street in St. Louis from 1923-1947" - also good. Be sure to add Citations From Non-Trivial Coverage From a Reliable Source.™ Remember, most streets are not notable, even most major arteries are not notable.
New street articles that need beefing up or merging/deleting: Memorial Drive (St. Louis), 18th Street (St. Louis), Chestnut Street (St. Louis), Market Street (St. Louis). davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- Maybe, the numbered streets are not so notable. They should probably be done in a single article. Market, Memorial Drive, and Chestnut are significant. They've been at the heart of great debates over the past 100 years at least. Every curve and alteration has been fought over. The bend on market at Tucker (another major street) is a sour point for our gateway mall that has motivated many reform movements in the past. Chestnut has been broken up in several places, and has three more breaks planned. There's plenty to add to them. I've marked them as part of the geography group, not transportation, because the volume of traffic doesn't matter so much as their placement relative to other things.
- Moreover, disk space is cheap and and stubs grow with time. I can't understand this regular patrolling by people to delete articles started by well-meaning people. Research and grow articles, why be concerned only with destroying and tearing things down? DaronDierkes (talk) 02:15, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- Taken to an extreme, I could write an article about every side street in my city. But I don't. In addition to the verifiability and notability criteria, there is also the unwritten rule that material should be encyclopedic. The three historic streets you mentioned seem to fit the bill. Most streets don't. If you notice, I did not tag those articles for deletion or notability. On the other hand, I didn't mark them as patrolled either. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- But what would be wrong with making articles for side streets? They all have unique histories. I'm sure some alleyways have served as bathrooms, trash heaps, mugging points, homeless shelters, and dozens of other things, perhaps in the past they were even part of larger streets. If a side street or alleyway is in the downtown of a major city, it is quite possible that it has a very rich history that we just don't know much about. Throwing it up on a crowdsourced medium like this could yield some very interesting information about it. What street was the drunken Edger Allen Poe found on right before he died? On what street did Nietzsche see a man beating a horse? I know wikipedia wants to be encyclopedic and not trivial, but historic and walkable streetgrids pack a lot of information. ... Well, I guess I'm going to spend some time looking for references now. DaronDierkes (talk) 02:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- A wholistic view of the notability and verifiability policies and guidelines will answer your question. The spirit of the people-specific guideline section WP:ONEEVENT plays a role as well. No doubt some side streets are notable, particularly if multiple major events happened on them or multiple important buildings were on them. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- Quite right. How is 18th Street (St. Louis) now? DaronDierkes (talk) 03:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- Better. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 10:18, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- Quite right. How is 18th Street (St. Louis) now? DaronDierkes (talk) 03:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- A wholistic view of the notability and verifiability policies and guidelines will answer your question. The spirit of the people-specific guideline section WP:ONEEVENT plays a role as well. No doubt some side streets are notable, particularly if multiple major events happened on them or multiple important buildings were on them. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- But what would be wrong with making articles for side streets? They all have unique histories. I'm sure some alleyways have served as bathrooms, trash heaps, mugging points, homeless shelters, and dozens of other things, perhaps in the past they were even part of larger streets. If a side street or alleyway is in the downtown of a major city, it is quite possible that it has a very rich history that we just don't know much about. Throwing it up on a crowdsourced medium like this could yield some very interesting information about it. What street was the drunken Edger Allen Poe found on right before he died? On what street did Nietzsche see a man beating a horse? I know wikipedia wants to be encyclopedic and not trivial, but historic and walkable streetgrids pack a lot of information. ... Well, I guess I'm going to spend some time looking for references now. DaronDierkes (talk) 02:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- Taken to an extreme, I could write an article about every side street in my city. But I don't. In addition to the verifiability and notability criteria, there is also the unwritten rule that material should be encyclopedic. The three historic streets you mentioned seem to fit the bill. Most streets don't. If you notice, I did not tag those articles for deletion or notability. On the other hand, I didn't mark them as patrolled either. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri
editThere has not been that much editting on the Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri Page. The page needs to be up to date. (Jordan S. Wilson (talk) 15:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC))