Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Star Trek/Comparative ranks and insignia of Star Trek

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For the love of god, would someone PLEASE move this article to "Comparative Ranks and Insignia of Star Trek"?

Good grief people, learn to SPELL. - unsigned KaintheScion

Learn to sign. :P --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 02:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Original Research and Sources

As much as this article looks pretty neat, I feel it borders on Original Research. What sources have been used to compile this material? What live action Star Trek production has confirmed the ranks and insignia mentioned on this page? What offical source publication backs up these ranks?

We need to have those things. If this is rather a page created by a Star Trek fan, based on personal theories, then it may have to be deleted. -Husnock 02:53, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Errr? How can I find official sources for this? Online I mean. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 04:25, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

It would have to be an offical source sponsered by the producers of the Star Trek series. There are hundreds of fan websites that list rank info, but none of these can be considered offical as they are hypothetical and the creation of persons unconnected with teh Star Trek series. -Husnock 06:13, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Can you find me such a page? :) --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 06:11, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

This should be at Comparative Ranks and Insigniae of Star Trek. RickK 23:32, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

• Did this stuff come out of a Star Trek game? I can't believe a minor race like the Gorn could have a complete list, while major races are missing. 132.205.15.43 02:34, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  I actualy have those images, I am waiting for vfd. :P --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 23:39, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

The Gorn ranks and Ferengi ranks other than daimon are total fabrication with no source. Most (if not all) of the TNG-era insignia images are stolen from a couple forums. Someone kindly start up a vfd...

Removed disputed tag because no reason was given -- 790 17:48, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The entire section above, reagrding the pure original research nature of this article and its heavy sourcing of fan material, is the entire section why the accuracy is disputed. -Husnock 17:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Accuracy requires sources that can be established. The only source for the Gorn and Tholian ranks, as far as I've seen, is Wikipedia iteself. They don't, by the way, even match the Gorn ranks from the Star Fleet Universe of ADB's Star Fleet Battles, etc..

Moreover, there is no reference to the insignia seen upon the kilngons in the shows. Someone with the DVD's needs to do some close-ups and examine the klingon rank insignia. 66.58.216.245 03:00, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

There is an official publication (that I used to actually own and keep on the top shelf of my book cabinet) by Michael and Denise Okuda, called the Star Trek Encyclopedia. The latest edition would contain rank and insignia information. Other than that, I'm geeky enough to do some web-hunting for images from the book to back up/assist the article... ~ Kella 18:53PST, 21 February 2006

Most of these are theoretical/non-canon...

Missing Rank

I believe the Starfleet ranks are missing a level...Crewman. Crewman is designated with a single 'empty' pip on the collar, and would belong right below ensign. I'm not sure how to change this or I would do it myself. Bnew 21:03, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

Crewman is an enlisted rank; this page only shows officer ranks. The enlisted ranks have never been fully explained. One would expect them to be:

Master Chief Petty Officer E-9 - haven't seen any

Senior Chief Petty Officer E-8 - haven't seen any

Chief Petty Officer E-7 - (Miles O'Brien's three chevrons in a square)

Petty Officer First Class E-6 - three chevrons?

Petty Officer Second Class E-5 - two chevron?

Petty Officer Third Class E-4 - one chevron?

Crewman or Crewman first class E-3 - dark circle pip as mentioned above?

Crewman Apprentice E-2 or Crewman second class - empty collar?

Crewman Recruit or or Crewman third class E-1 - empty collar?

It is conceivable that all personnel between E-1 and E-6 would be called "Crewman", and all E-7 through E-9 would be called "Chief". Perhaps E-4 through E-6 have been called "specialist" or "yeoman", although "yeoman" could also be a position filled by someone of any rank.

This is much speculation, thus I will not add it to the article. One might also speculate that all petty officers wore a dark circle pip until 2270, when O'Brien started wearing his chevrons.

See also [1] and [2]. --Locarno 15:48, 15 July 2005

(UTC)

Please see Starfleet ranks and insignia for a description of enlisted ranks. -Husnock 16:09, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Miles O'Brien was referred to as "Senior Chief" in "Hippocratic Oath" -- this means that his later three-chevron-and-two-pip insignia probably doesn't mean CPO -- it probably means SCPO or higher. -- CaptainMike 17:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Incorrect Klingon Ranks

The Klingon ranks presented here are, in short, completely wrong. I will provide a list that is more correct, with additional notes.

Starfleet

tlhIngan Hubbeq

Klingon Translated

Fleet Admiral

la'quv

Supreme Commander

Admiral

'aj

Admiral

Vice Admiral

Sa'

General

Rear Admiral

totlh

Commodore

Commodore

'ech

Brigadier

Captain

HoD

Captain

Commander

la'1

Commander

Lt. Commander

No equivalent

Lieutenant

Sogh

Lieutenant

Lieutenant (j.g.)

lagh

Ensign

Ensign

ne'

Yeoman

Senior Chief Petty Officer

bu'2

Sergeant

Chief Petty Officer

Da'2

Corporal My source is Klingon for the Galactic Traveller (Marc Okrand, 1997. ISBN 0-671-00995-8), the second official book published by Paramount about the Klingon Language 1 Many think that ra'wI' is the Klingon word for Commander. It is, and it isn't. A more accurate translation is "One who commands". In Klingon for the Galactic Traveller, Okrand explains that ra'wI' is a general term for any officer above the rank of Sogh, and is in fact a safer form of address if one is unsure of an officer's rank. However, la' is the rank itself, which is translated as Commander, as that is its approximate equivalent in Starfleet. 2 bu' and Da' are titles given to the two highest ranked members of the troops (QaS) on a vessel. All enlisted ratings below them have no rank, simply a position. This entire article contains incorrect and errouns info. It was put together based on very unoffical fan literature and is pure original research. A total revamp is needed, and the differente sections should be folded into articles on the respective races with the purely invented ranks (like th Gorn) discarded. Its a major project and I'm working on other stuff right now. I actually feel the article should be deleted, but a VFD arrived at a conclusion to keep. -Husnock 3 July 2005 19:45 (UTC) REBUTTAL: What I have said here is NOT from fan fiction, it is from Marc Okrand, the man Paramount PAID to develop the Klingon language. I'd say Paramount trusts him in this. The info on the talk page is not in dispute. The article itself is. The info mentioned above should be included as it has a source. The main article has no sources given at all. -Husnock 6 July 2005 16:42 (UTC) REPLY: Oh, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I have added the Klingon ranks for all to see, in the main page :) -Se'noj 14-7-2005 US army ranks If this article does stay, you may want to either remove the US navy column, or fix it, as the images are a) not fair use in this table, b) wrong (the insignia for 'Fleet Admiral' is the insignia of a US Army General, and all the others are wrong, too). Proto::► 12:35, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Actually, an Air Force General, but yes. Morwen - Talk 13:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Doh. That's, of course, what I meant. Still wrong though. Proto::► 14:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)