Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Superheroes

Possible Merger

I'd like to suggest merging this under WikiProject Comics. Superhero coverage occurs and fits in well there and it seems a bit redundant to have two projects assessing and rating and so on. Thoughts? Hiding T 07:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Recently, over on the Comics Project, I did mention, in relation to Category:Superheroes, that there are non-comics superheroes (e.g. Wild Cards, Hancock (film), etc.). However, there is so much crossover between comics and superheroes that if you just concentrate on the non-comics-based material you aren't going to have a lot to do. It strikes me that we can always stretch Comics Project remit to cover the few dozen non-comics superheroes (in coordination with the specific project for the relevant medium) - the Comics Project already has a broad and wide-ranging purview which covers films, TV shows, computer games, etc. based on comics (where we work with the relevant projects) so this isn't a big stretch. A separate project just looks like replicated effort and an awful lot of redundancy. (Emperor (talk) 16:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC))

A merger is NOT needed. I like to think of it as (Wikiproject Comics) being a parent project. Take WikiProject Video Games for an example. They cover all related articles for Xbox. Playstation, and much more platforms. However there are Xbox and Playstation project that just cover those certain platforms as well. Wikiproject Superheros will be covering the characters information in more depth. We're not covering the entire comics section. --DJS24 16:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

You've just defined a WorkGroup/Task force.

And just because WikiProject Video Games seems to not be consistent in whether a group is a task force or a WikiProject, doesn't mean that other WikiProjects should be as inconsistant as well. (Noting, for just once example that Atari is a task force, but Xbox is a WikiProject. Seems rather a lack of consistancy.)

A suggestion: We've discussed having a workgroup for comics content-related articles (content = characters, locations, objects, and concepts). Would you be interested in merging this project to that? - jc37 17:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

We can start a superheroes taskforce. I really don't see the need to fill up talk pages with yet another project banner when the direction Wikipedia is moving in is to shrink the number of WikiProjects. Hiding T 18:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Can you send me a link of this taskforce. BW21.--BlackWatch21 18:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Can you show me the discussion to set this WikiProject up? Hiding T 18:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I really can't see a superhero workgroup being viable either - if you go by the examples Blackwatch21 gave on his talk page you'd have the group just focused on superhero characters but not their titles. You'd also have to get over the hump of actual defining which comics characters class as superheroes (do they have to have superpowers? Do they need to wear spandex?). Broadening it out to content would certainly avoid a lot of the problems and headaches that come from a superhero focus, but I really don't see the need for one. If you are dealing with say Marvel titles, locations, etc. then the Marvel workgroup is the best one to deal with that. I think the current set-up gives us the coverage we need and while, I wouldn't rule such a workgroup out, I'd argue that we don't need it. (Emperor (talk) 20:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC))

I support the merge back to WP COMICS, as this seems particularly redundant, and the margin of non-comics realted superheroes are covered by the WP:TV and WP:FILM projects already. ThuranX (talk) 20:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I also support a merge to Wikiproject comics, to prevent the duplication of effort necessarily created by this being a separate project. Ford MF (talk) 04:55, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

If merged would the mission statement of the comics project be changed to something like: "This WikiProject aims to provide a centralized home for work done on Wikipedia articles about comics, sequential art and non comic-book superheroes and to coordinate members' efforts to prevent redundancy and resolve disputes." Duggy 1138 (talk) 06:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes - that is pretty much what we do at the moment. Following on from discussion on the Comics Project talk page I recently cleaned-up the superhero category structure and have previously edited most of the non-comics superhero articles as they run so closely parallel to comics. We already work closely with the other media projects on the films, TV shows, books, etc. as part of our wide-ranging remit and I think it has really helped strengthen the articles as well as ensure the underlying category structures are similar and mesh together properly and consistently. You could probably sum it up in a handy Venn diagram and looking at what is currently being tagged as part of the Superhero Project there is nothing we don't cover and it would be strange to have a second parallel covering a lot of the the same area as an exiting one. (Emperor (talk) 14:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC))

I realise that superheroes (or any film) based on comic books are certainly covered by the Comic Project. And I'm sure it's extended to original non-superhero comics. I'm just asking if we will formalise that in the mission statement so we can stop people thinking the non comic superheroes don't have a project. Duggy 1138 (talk) 14:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes I agree it is worth formalising it. (Emperor (talk) 17:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC))

Merger Discussion

• Merge the tags point here for discussion and it is worth a separate section. My reasoning is given above but basically the Comics Project already covers this territory, there really is no need for a separate project and I'd argue there it wouldn't make a viable workgroup/taskforce. (Emperor (talk) 17:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC))

• I've already said it before and I'll say it again, if consensus is needed; it will be done by users not involved in either this project or the comic’s project. There's too much conflicting interest, and by the fact Comics has over 400 editors and Superheroes only has 4. As I see already, what I said before has already happened, every user to agree on a merge, is a WikiProject Comics member. As for my reasoning for keeping the Superheroes as a project; is to focus in more depth on the superheroes articles. Comics has too broad of a range to cover, basically you guys want to have a monopoly over everything that deals with comics. Some of these superheroes articles haven’t been touched in over a year w/ several mistakes on them. Again my main example for this is, Wikiproject Video Games. They cover everything related to video games. However under them, they have Wikiproject Xbox, Wikiproject Playstation and much more. So I would say a Superheroes Project is very necessary.--DJS24 18:47, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• Some observations:
  • It is very, very hard to see how any consensus including voices from outside of the cited group of 404 editors can be reached if the co-creators of this Project are going to insist on downing the merge tag. That tag is supposed to be there to draw attention to the issue of those outside the immediate discussion. Killing the tag and saying you want outside input is contradictory.
  • Making a statement of "There's 400 of you against only 4 of us" is making a lot of assumptions, and none of them good faith.
  • A question about the model that the concept is based on: With the over all video game section, which Project sets the ground rules? You know, criteria about good article, reliable sources, article layout, section formatting, fair use guidelines, image guides, the Manual of Style stuff. As well as Project banner hierarchy, templating, and the like. How is that going to translate here?
  • Watch throwing "monopoly" around... WikiProject Anime and manga may have something to say bout that.
  • That's another question: How is Superheros going to interact with A&M? The "superhero" is a trope of manga and anime just as it is with comics and animation. This is the MoS question on a different front.
  • Further to that: How about the interactions with WikiProject Television, WikiProject Films, WikiProject Radio, and to a lesser exten WikiProject Paranormal, WikiProject Cryptozoology (Spring Heel Jack for those two, though there are others), and sny of the other Projects that intersect on what is explicitly, or what can be construed to be a "superhero"?
  • Specific articles needing work is a broad problem, but not one that demands a Project be set up for each case. The base thing to doe with an article that needs help is to edit it. The Projects are there to try and give a consistency across a topic. Work groups or Taskforces are more in line with getting a group of editors together and cleaning up a specific set of type of articles.

  - J Greb (talk) 21:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Some of my thoughts:

• The Comics Project isn't some kind of closed shop and doesn't agree on anything as a unit - it is a group of individuals and each one has their own ideas on matters. The Comics Project (in fact all Projects I've been involved with) doesn't try to "monopolise" topics - we have worked perfectly amicably with a number of other projects where there is joint interest in something (I'm also a member of some of those Projects too, so I have no idea how things would even work if divided down partisan lines). Each Project tries to help the individual editors with advice (based on consensus) and help to keep things consistent across the range of topics comics touch on.
• I'd be interested to see the policy or guideline that says we aren't allowed to express an opinion over something that specifically impacts the working of the project.
• Equally such discussions aren't a vote - they rely on arguments for and against the topic being discussed.
• There are problems with an awful lot of articles (not just comics ones and not just superheroes) - if you see them then fix them, there is no need for a while new project to deal with a vaguely defined segment of something covered by an existing project. Equally if this was thought to have been an issue the first course of action would have been to raise the issue with the Comics Project and we could have taken things from there.
• Your example doesn't work here - something like the X-Box Project has a well defined remit as a subsection of video games. The equivalent in the comics project are things like the DC Comics and Marvel Comics work groups. They have a clear and well defined extent. The equivalent to this project in video games would be something like an Adventure Video Games Project (or say Fantasy Video Games).

Hope that helps. (Emperor (talk) 01:23, 3 August 2008 (UTC))

Redirect

Since the page creator has requested this be deleted/merged. (Per their talk page.) I've redirected the main page to Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics.

I've left this talk page for historical reasons. - jc37 06:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)