Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine/Archive 4

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One big notmal article for Polkovnik, Polkovnyk, Pułkownik, Plukovník and etc.

Do we need multiple identical articles about the same Slavic colonel in different countries, which is in many ways written?

1. Polkovnik
2. Polkovnyk
3. Pułkownik
4. Plukovník

Yes, Ukrainian colonel was not only commander of a regiment, but head of an administrative unit. But is it so necessary to make a separate article or will be enough to make a section in a general article about the Slavic colonels? UeArtemis (talk) 14:32, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

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a question about the Lviv article

hello. i was reading the article about Lvov and i have a question: shouldn't the article use the name Lwów for the time during which the city was part of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth and later of the second Polish republic similarly to how the Wrocław article uses the name Breslau for the period the city was part of Germany? what are wikipedia rules and standards in that regard? Loosmark (talk) 16:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia Ukraine

Долучайтеся до обговорення Статуту організації «Вікімедіа-Україна». Обговорення тут.--Anatoliy (Talk) 13:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Soviet control of Ukraine after 1940..."liberation" vs. "re-occupation"; need input on bias/veracity

Hi. On the Ukrainian Insurgent Army article, we are having an issue in regards to defining soviet control of Ukraine in the 40's when they pushed the Nazis out, as either "re-occupation" (or another neutral term) or "liberation". Please help on this one. Thanks.--Lvivske (talk) 18:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The very fact that it was the Soviet army and not the Ukrainian army implies occupation. When one also considers the fact that the Soviet army spoke Russian and not Ukrainian, it also adds credulance to the term occupation. Ukrainians will consider it occupation as it was not previously part of the Soviet Union, therefore it cannot be "liberated". Soviets will however stick by the term liberated. Bandurist (talk) 01:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunalely you are incorrect. USSR ANNEXED the territories in question, and the annexed territories are technically liberated, not reoccupied, regardless of the Galicians'opinion apropos.Galassi (talk) 02:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It was the "unification" of Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine. UeArtemis (talk) 09:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

the Talk:Ukrainian Insurgent Army has become a very long debate about this topic — most of the debate is emotional and subjective. My suggestion is to separate control of territory, from control of people. One is based on an established event (fact of history), the second one is based on people's feelings about the event. The definition of 'liberate' pertains more to people (and less to territory): "to give liberty to; make free", so one would ask whether people were in bondage under the Nazis (probably yes), and whether Soviet control made these people 'free' (for a significant no. of people, probably not). If we are talking only about territory, then I think "gained" or "regained control of the territory" is better. Ultimately we are talking about control of territory — if we are talking about whether the locals (or historians) thought of this as 'liberation' or 'occupation, which are subjective terms, then the debate will go on and on.... --Pkravchenko (talk) 23:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Politically correct and correct from the standpoint of meaning term for is Incorporation/Annexation. Technically, it was not occupation. But it really was the liberation from the Poles and later from the Nazis and real unification of ALL Ukraine. UeArtemis (talk) 13:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC) Sorry for Russian:

Оккупа́ция — занятие вооружёнными силами государства не принадлежащей ему территории, не сопровождающееся обретением суверенитета над ней, обычно временное. Оккупацию следует отличать от аннексии, акта присоединения государством всей или части чужой территории в одностороннем порядке.

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Raion names

There seems to be a move to rename all the Raions of Ukraine and remove all the '-(t)skyi' from the names so that they resemble the names of the city centers. It seems agreed upon here, that Raion should be capitalized and I am fine with that.

I perfered the '-(t)skyi' ending since it was already in place. But I would like to see the naming be consistent and since half of them are already renamed I guess it should move forward this way. Unless anyone have any opinions to revert to the '-(t)skyi' ending? Thanks.

Some raions with -s'kyi may be confused, for example: Vasylkivs'kyi Raion (Kiev Oblast) and Vasylkivs'kyi Raion (Dnipropetrovsk Oblast). With «new» scheme of naming they will be Vasylkiv Raion and Vasylkivka Raion. So, why Raion, not District? --Anatoliy (Talk) 23:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I think it will be simpler. I just wanted to make sure nobody objected before I update the lists and templates. Raion appears to be the preferred nomenclature. BaomoVW (talk) 02:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

For Poland no 'ski/cki' for the powiats=rayons. But renaming rayon => district is not so clear question, for many countries native units names are in use (sums in Mongolia, powiats in Poland etc). Bogomolov.PL (talk) 15:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Sofia Rotaru

For those interested, please see the talk page. Someone is trying to delete portions of the article.--Rubikonchik (talk) 21:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for a 200-WikiProject contest

A proposal has been posted for a contest between all 200 country WikiProjects. We're looking for judges, coordinators, ideas, and feedback.

The Transhumanist 00:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Nikita Khrushchev&Leonid Brezhnev - Ukrainians?

Here was a discussion about Ukrainians definition.

My proposal was to define categories of Ukrainians to be correct with so called ethnic lists.

1) the ethnicity definition (two options):

• smb claims Ukrainian ethnicity or
• smb has Ukrainian ethnic roots (ancestors)

2) The citizenship definition (two options):

• smb has (had) Ukrainian citizenship or
• smb has Ukrainian citizen ancestors

My collegue Lvivske said: "I don't think the 4th works (smb w/ Ukrainian citizen ancestors) since citizenship is not hereditary...but yeah, I think we should put this discussion up with wikiproject ukraine and get some outside input".

Can we accept some of my proposals? Bogomolov.PL (talk) 06:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I do not count Khrsuschev and Brezhnev as Ukrainians, although without doubt they are. For some reason a lot of Russians consider them as such, yet for Russians Gogol is Russian. Why? Go figure. Why those people need to be Ukrainians, but not Gogol or Chekhov? On the other subject, there are a lot of Ukrainians that live in North America that are either Americans or Canadians, nonetheless they stick to their national principles and try to inherit them into their children. The Russian propoganda today simply labels them as the imperialistic Americans and portrays them as greedy hipocrats:) My point is that maybe it is not even worth to put a claim if it was not identified. However, what valuable, in my opinion, is that to put a simple note which relates the person to our Land. In Latin there couple of definitions in that regard. Something in regard to blood and land similiar to ethnicity and citizenship. Maybe that could be mentioned. On personal note for me Ukrainian citizenship is not as valuable as being Ukrainian by belief and deeds:) For example, who is more Ukrainian Khruschev, Khmelnytskyi, Mazepa, Yaroslav the Wise, or Franko? I apologise for this kalambur and, yea, I support the idea. I think that Ukrainians can be defined as the one who were born to the Ukrainian male parent. Otherwise they either had Ukrainian parent, were born in Ukraine, or claimed to be as such. I know it sounds nationalistic, but only for categorization and historical purposes. As far as the human rights deal goes, I think that any citizen of Ukraine should have the same rights as its native no matter what:) For example, Yanukovych is not Ukrianian, but he is Ukrainian citizen. No Ukrainian would try to enforce a foreign culture. Otherwise how can he be Ukrainian? Why does Ukrainian government need to pay for Russian schools. Why don't the Russian or Belorussian (in regard to Yanukovych and Milevsky) community in Ukraine gather up and come up with some budget that would be able to establish them so much needed number of schools? To contrast Yanukovych let's remember Dontsov. Who is Ukrainian and who is not? How can we put Khruschev right beside Shevchenko, or, maybe, Sosiura, or Petliura? Who is Ukrainian? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

So, collegue Aleksandr Grigoryev, you agree to the first ethnicity options (smb claims Ukrainian ethnicity or smb has Ukrainian ethnic roots) limiting ethnic roots to "the one who were born to the Ukrainian male parent"? Or "they either had Ukrainian parent, were born in Ukraine, or claimed to be as such" with no gender preferences? Bogomolov.PL (talk) 05:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

For the record, I found a biographical source on Brezhnev and he indeed self-identified as a Ukrainian when he was younger.--Львівське (talk) 00:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that Mykola Kostomarov should be called Ukrainian as well. JMO. Jwkozak91 (talk) 22:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Sofia Rotaru Performs Songs of Volodymyr Ivasyuk

Hi, your help in improvement of this article is welcome!--Rubikonchik (talk) 12:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

User:93.72.171.128 is a vandal???

User:93.72.171.128 is making some changes lately that seem to be intent to whipe traces of the Cassette Scandal from the Kuchma and Volodymyr Lytvyn articles. Not sure if it is vandalism or bad judgement. — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:37, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Andriyivskyy Descent GA Sweeps: On Hold

I have reviewed Andriyivskyy Descent for GA Sweeps to determine if it still qualifies as a Good Article. In reviewing the article I have found several issues, which I have detailed here. Since the article falls under the scope of this project, I figured you would be interested in contributing to further improve the article. Please comment there to help the article maintain its GA status. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

UPA / Volyn Massacre article riots, need help

The UPA and Volyn Massacre articles are in pretty annoying edit wars now due to Polish editors trying to bring heavy bias to the articles. Anyone interested in these topics, please help and swing by the talk pages?

Also, one (well, 5 of them) have ganged up and and put me up for enforcement (here because I'm causing them so much grief. Could a admin here swing by and help a guy out? Thanks --Львівське (talk) 00:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Similar things are happening on Władysław Siemaszko (lawyer) and Ewa Siemaszko (engineer) who are not really historians at all but are the ones who are fanning the Polish genocide debate. (Polish wiki - Władysław Siemaszko (ur. 1919 w Kurytybie) - polski prawnik, badacz tragedii polskiej ludności na Wołyniu w okresie II wojny światowej.) Worthy of viewing is this site to see where they are coming from. http://kresowianie.prv.pl/ Bandurist (talk) 03:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

PFTS Index

Hi everyone! I think I have substantially improved this article. I removed the stub tag, but I understand it is still not reflected here. What's the way around this? Do you know? Regards, Invest in knowledge (talk) 14:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe (it's better to) ask someone from Wikipedia:WikiProject Business for advice? I doubt many of us know anything about stock markets... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Cities in Ukraine

Does Zlatopol properly fit in Category:Cities in Ukraine? I don't understand whether this and other Settlements in Ukraine subcategories are done by official designation (like USA communities, which are subcategorized by their municipal status) or if there's no real difference. 24.93.116.128 (talk) 02:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

This stetl formally is a part of Novomyrhorod city. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 10:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Image I'd love to add to an article

If anyone could help with this, I'd really appreciate it. There is an image that I'd love to add to the article I'm working on Cucuteni-Trypillian culture that is of a painting - Russian or Ukrainian, I believe - that shows a woman in the foreground working in a wheat field with a Cucuteni-Trypillian settlement in the background. Here's the URL: http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/50/200px-tripol_village.jpg The caption is: Трипольское поселение глазами художника, which I think roughly translates as: Artist's perception of a Trypillian settlement.

It is part of the website here: http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/11781

I cannot figure out how to request permission from the website owners to use this painting in Wikipedia because I don't speak Ukrainian or Russian (I do know how to read Cyrillic, though, so that helps a little, but not in this case). If someone could figure out how to contact the owner of this image to get permission to have it shown in the article, I think it would make a valuable contribution. It is much superior than most of the artwork I've seen about Cucuteni-Trypillian subjects. Thanks for any help! --Saukkomies ^talk 00:09, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried e-mailing the address at the bottom of the page ?

THEy will receive it and get someone to translate so should not be a problemChaosdruid (talk) 23:38, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Chaosdruid! To tell the truth, I hadn't even noticed that email address at the bottom of the screen! So I just sent them a letter, hopefully that will take care of it. Thanks for your advice. --Saukkomies ^talk 01:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

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New articles about villages

I have a question about naming new articles. I'm creating new articles about various villages in Ukraine whose names are associated with more than one village in Ukraine. For instance, the name Berezivka (Березівка) is associated with several dozen different villages; indeed, there are six separate villages named Berezivka in the Kirovohrad Oblast alone! On the Ukraine Wikipedia this is dealt with by having the village listed by its name, followed by the name of its Raion in parantheses, so, for example: Березівка (Бобринецький район) for the village of Berezivka located in the Bobrynetskyi Raion of the Kirovohrad Oblast. So, do we use this method in the English Wikipedia? In the example above, a new article about that village would look like this: Berezivka (Bobrynetskyi Raion). Is this the way to do this? Thanks for responding. --Saukkomies ^talk 19:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but if there are more than one we have to differentiate. It might be best to set up a disambiguation page for those with more than one

Berezvika (Kirovohrad) may refer to:-

Berezivka (Kirovohrad) - A town in Ukraine near XXX

Berezivka (Kirovohrad) - A town in Ukraine near YYY

As for the naming of each article, that will be a little more difficult. I ahve tried a quick look around at other examples of a similar problem with no luck yet :¬)

Try this document to start with..Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(places)

Chaosdruid (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for responding, Chaosdruid. So, I visited the Naming Conventions site you linked above, and I found a section in it that sort of answers this. Here: Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(places)#Disambiguation. In that section are two bulleted items:

• If using the country name would still lead to ambiguity, use the name of a smaller administrative division (such as a state or province) instead.
• With the names of cities, towns, villages and other settlements, as well as administrative divisions, the tag is normally preceded by a comma, as in Hel, Poland and Polk County, Tennessee. Any specific national convention takes precedence though.

So it would seem that what the English Wikipedia guidelines (using the example I gave above in the first paragraph of this section) we would have something like this: Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi Raion for the title of the article. Is this the standard we go by? In that link to the Naming Conventions it shows some examples of how they handle this problem with various countries, but Ukraine is not one of them. Perhaps this is something we can decide on here, and then post to that article. Thoughts? Suggestions? --Saukkomies ^talk 21:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure if you would need You do not need to put "Raion" in the title as that is implied.

For example if "Norwich" was in England in more than one county we would put "Norwich, Norfolk" and not "Norwich, Norfolk county"

Chaosdruid (talk) 23:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

True, that is how they do it in England. However, in the article about Wikipedia naming conventions that you cited above, it specifically states the following:

• With the names of cities, towns, villages and other settlements, as well as administrative divisions, the tag is normally preceded by a comma, as in Hel, Poland and Polk County, Tennessee. Any specific national convention takes precedence though.

So, going by this, and looking at how it is done in the Ukrainian Wikipedia, the proper way to do it would be to include the village name, followed by the name of the raion in parenthesis. Here is what it looks like in the Ukrainian Wiki: Березівка (Бобринецький район)

From this we can deduce the following:

1) They use just two names, the village and raion, but not the oblast.

2) They use the word raion in lower-case.

3) They have the name of the raion in parentheses, not designated with a comma, as is done with the Anglo-American naming system.

(readjusting margin)

Okay, I've done a bit of research into this subject. I looked at several places and came up with some examples, which I'll detail below.

First off, I looked at the Administrative divisions of Ukraine#General scheme of administrative subdivision section, which contained a nice table showing some of this information, which I'm including an excerpt of here:

Names of Ukraine's administrative units

Ukrainian	Romanized¹	English widespread use	English recommended (formal use)	English recommended (informal use)
область	oblast'	region², province	oblast	province
район	raion	district, region³, area	raion	district

Notes:

1. Romanized using Ukrainian National standard. Details at Romanization of Ukrainian.
   
2. Province is more precise because region may also refer to supranational geographic entity.
   
3. Region is ambiguous since it usually refers to larger national-level units; area is inaccurate.
   

So - the big question from this is: in creating a standard naming convention for Ukrainian villages, should we use the English recommended (formal use) (i.e.: "oblast" and "raion"), or should we use the English recommended (informal use) (i.e.: "province" and "district")? This would be a fantastic piece of information for me to know.

Another piece of information that would be useful is whether there are any duplicate raion names in Ukraine. For instance, would there be two raions with the same name in different oblasts? If this is not the case, I believe that it would only be necessary to use two names in the naming of articles for villages (the village and raion names), since if the raion name is not duplicated elsewhere in Ukraine, this would be a unique moniker. However, if there are duplicate raion names, then this presents the possibility of needing to use three names in the title of an article about a village (village, raion, oblast).

As it appears to me, we are confronted by several parameters to consider:
1) Whether to separate the village, raion and oblast names with parentheses or commas.
2) Whether to list just two (village, raion), or three names (village, raion, oblast).
3) Whether to use English recommended formal or informal use of the terms (raion vs district, oblast vs province).
4) Whether to have the terms for raion, etc. be upper- or lower-case (Raion vs raion, Oblast vs oblast).
5) Whether we should follow Ukrainian national naming convention or not. Example: Березівка (Бобринецький район), or: Berezivka (Bobrynetskyi raion).

So, going by all this, I came up with some examples of different naming convention styles which I'll show below. I do not want to show examples of every possibility, but have incorporated all of these parameters to show how they'd look.

First style example, which incorporates:
1) Using commas to separate the names.
2) Listing all three names (village, raion, oblast).
3) The English recommended informal use of the terms district and province.
4) Using upper-case for district and province.

• Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi District, Kirovohrad Province
• Berezivka, Haivoronskyi District, Kirovohrad Province
• Berezivka, Novopskovskyi District, Luhansk Province
• Berezivka, Troyitskyi District, Luhansk Province
• Berezivka, Volodarsk-Volynskyi District, Zhytomyr Province
• Berezivka, Yemilchyne District, Zhytomyr Province

Second style example, which incorporates:
1) Using commas to separate the names.
2) Listing all three names (village, raion, oblast).
3) The English recommended formal use of the terms raion and province.
4) Using lower-case for district and province.

• Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi raion, Kirovohrad oblast
• Berezivka, Haivoronskyi raion, Kirovohrad oblast
• Berezivka, Novopskovskyi raion, Luhansk oblast
• Berezivka, Troyitskyi raion, Luhansk oblast
• Berezivka, Volodarsk-Volynskyi raion, Zhytomyr oblast
• Berezivka, Yemilchyne raion, Zhytomyr oblast

Third style example, which incorporates:
1) Using parentheses to separate the names.
2) Listing just two names (village, raion).
3) The English recommended formal use of the term raion.
4) Using upper-case for Raion.

• Berezivka, (Bobrynetskyi Raion)
• Berezivka, (Haivoronskyi Raion)
• Berezivka, (Novopskovskyi Raion)
• Berezivka, (Troyitskyi Raion)
• Berezivka, (Volodarsk-Volynskyi Raion)
• Berezivka, (Yemilchyne Raion)

Fourth style example, which incorporates:
1) Using a comma to separate the names.
2) Listing just two names (village, raion).
3) The English recommended informal use of the term district.
4) Using lower-case for district.

• Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi district
• Berezivka, Haivoronskyi district
• Berezivka, Novopskovskyi district
• Berezivka, Troyitskyi district
• Berezivka, Volodarsk-Volynskyi district
• Berezivka, Yemilchyne district

So, in conclusion, there are quite a number of ways that this could be done, as I'm sure you all can see by now. The point is that, if there already is not a naming convention for Ukrainian place names, then this is something that really should be done asap, seeing especially as how I'm planning on creating a number of new articles on several dozen villages, many of which have duplicate names with other villages elsewhere in Ukraine, and once an article has been created, with possible links to it set up from other articles on Wikipedia, then it is very difficult to change the title of the article later, so it's good to give it the right name the first time.

What needs to happen in order for this to be expedited so that we can set up an official standard that the WikiProject:Ukraine endorses? Thanks very much for any help and response to this. --Saukkomies ^talk 03:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Looking good !

Just to clarify what I was saying earlier..You dont need to put the word Raion (or any english translation)

The only reason for putting anything other than the name of the town would be if there are more than one.

Let us pretend there are XXX YYY and ZZZ town names

XXX - there is only 1 of these in the whole of Ukraine - "XXX"

YYY - there are 2 in different oblasts, AAA and BBB - "YYY, AAA" and "YYY, BBB"

ZZZ - there are 3 and 2 are in the same oblast - "ZZZ, LLL, AAA" and "ZZZ, MMM, AAA"

Can you see what I was trying to say now ? There will be a problem with the fact that they are in the same Oblast so we use the raion to differentiate the title

Once again, we do not need to put the word Raion and Oblast (or any english variant). THe comments in the guidelines are for the wording of the body of the article and not necessarily the name of the article and are there to ensure we do not use the words "county" or "area" instead of the Ukranian oblast or raion. After all you would not put "XXX, LLL, AAA, Ukraine" if there was only one town with that name in the whole of Ukraine

It is understood that the smallest area comes first, the town name, the next would be a larger area and the last the largest. In the example us use, Polk County is an area, not a town and is named so because of that. If the article was about "LLL Raion" then yes, it would have Raion in the title to differentiate from "Polk" (the town/city of the same name)

I understand that you are trying to get a naming convention started and so it is imperative that we avoid unecessary wording in the article names. We do not need the words district, raion, oblast or province worded in the article title.

Chaosdruid (talk) 17:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't quite agree with everything that you said, Chaosdruid. I think we still need to use the word raion or district for a couple of reasons:

• Normal English-speaking Wikipedia users will not readily know that the second name in the title of the article (when given) would be, and mistakes might be made as a result of that - for instance, if someone was going to reference the name of a village, and the title of the article had the name of the raion included, but did not specify that it was a district or raion, the user may mistakenly believe it was actually part of the name of the village, and would reference it like that, which could lead to many mistakes down the line. An example: if a Wiki user saw an article entitled Berezivka, Troyitskyi, he or she may come to the conclusion that the name of that village was Berezivka, Troyitskyi, when it actually is just Berezivka. However, if it looked like this: Berezivka, Troyitskyi district, then it would be much more clear that the second name was not part of the name of the actual village.
• In the U.S. the method used when including the name of the town and the county it is located in is to specify that the second name is indeed a county, for example: Fairview, Bergen County, New Jersey; Glenview, Cook County, Illinois; Jonestown, Lebanon County, Pennsylvania; etc. If you look up some of the towns in the U.S. on Wikipedia, you'll see that that these towns are listed with the word county as part of the title of the article. I have not ever seen a title of a Wikipedia article about a town in the U.S. where the name of the county was included in the title of the article that did not also include the word County (and it has always been upper case, too). I realize that there is a different naming style for district names in Britain, but that is partly due to the fact that historically these secondary-level districts have had a significant and unique history that has integrated itself into the British consciousness, which is not the case with the United States, where an entire state may have very little difference from one county to the next to distinguish each one from the next.
• And if we are to go by the guidelines set forth by Wikipedia (as I quoted above), then we should try to at least pay some homage to the naming convention of Ukraine, at least as how it is done within the Ukrainian language Wikipedia. In the Ukrainian Wikipedia articles about towns the title includes the name of the town and the name of the raion, and also includes the word raion after the name. I have again never seen an article about a town in Ukraine where the name of the raion is included where it does not also say raion after it.

All of this points quite solidly to a logical conclusion that if we are to name a raion or district, that we must use the word district or raion as part of the title. Feel free to investigate this, and you'll see that this is a very solid case based on actual usage and precedent. :)

--Saukkomies ^talk 20:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I just wanted to ask a favor. It is kind of difficult for me to follow exactly what you were talking about in the examples you gave, Chaosdruid. Maybe you could use actual names of villages, raions and oblasts (if you need examples, feel free to use the ones I've included). It makes it a lot more clear - I couldn't keep the X's and Y's straight in my head as I was trying to follow along what you were referencing. However, that's maybe just my own hangup, so feel free to ignore this. :) I do feel that this is a serious issue that definitely needs to be addressed by the WikiProject:Ukraine community. How do we open this up to a broader discussion involving other people? It would definitely help to make it so that the whole community was aware of whatever decision is reached about a naming standard... --Saukkomies ^talk 20:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

OK - thats a lot of info you are giving.

The main problem is simple. In one example you use the american place : Fairview. This has both County and State because there are 2 of them in New Jersey. The word County may be included but that may also be to distinguish between Town and County because of the number of towns of Monmouth in several states...Monmouth_(disambiguation) & Bergen_(disambiguation)

Fairview, Bergen County, New Jersey

Fairview, Monmouth County, New Jersey

If there were only one, it would say

Fairview, New Jersey

In this example, the word "State" is not in existence. So appropriately we would see

Stryi

There is no Raion or oblast as there is only one Stryi. Lets take Berezivka as the next example. There are more than one and they are in different areas (I will do all 6 as you did). The articles would be :-

Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi, Kirovohrad

Berezivka, Haivoronskyi, Kirovohrad

Berezivka, Novopskovskyi, Luhansk

Berezivka, Troyitskyi, Luhansk

Berezivka, Volodarsk-Volynskyi, Zhytomyr

Berezivka, Yemilchyne, Zhytomyr

All of these should be on a disambiguation page "Berezivka"

(Here you would put the full names, which would link to each article...)

[[Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi, Kirovohrad|Berezivka, Bobrynetskyi raion, Kirovohrad oblast]] A town near

[[Berezivka, Haivoronskyi, Kirovohrad|Berezivka, Haivoronskyi raion, Kirovohrad oblast]]

[[Berezivka, Novopskovskyi, Luhansk|Berezivka, Novopskovskyi raion, Luhansk oblast]]

[[Berezivka, Troyitskyi, Luhansk|Berezivka, Troyitskyi raion, Luhansk oblast]]

[[Berezivka, Volodarsk-Volynskyi, Zhytomyr|Berezivka, Volodarsk-Volynskyi raion, Zhytomyr oblast]]

[[Berezivka, Yemilchyne, Zhytomyr|Berezivka, Yemilchyne raion, Zhytomyr oblast]]

The reason is a simple one, if someone wants to find info on Berezivka they will probably not type in the words Raion or Oblast but will probably just put "Berezivka" or "Berezivka Kirovohrad" if they know the oblast. (I have also put more info after them to show that you could also include more info in the disamb page)

I hope this makes it a bit more clear as to my meaning...

As for other peoples help, I am guessing that we are the only two around at the moment !

Often it takes months before people even reply, and it has been just me for a long time recently !

Chaosdruid (talk) 19:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

(readjusting margin again)

This is making sense. I tend to fall on the side of avoiding disambiguation pages or disambiguation links whenever possible, so that's why I was hoping to find a way around this. But I think that in this case it's going to be the best alternative, not necessarily for the reasons you gave (no disrespect), but because I'm thinking of the long-term consequences of trying to enforce any standard for Ukrainian articles, seeing how 1) the people who contribute to Ukrainian articles are not too hip on things going on, it seems, and 2) whatever policy or standard we create will be ignored by 99% of the editors. As a result, it will be much easier to later go and create a disambiguation link to any new conflicting name articles than it will be to try to enforce a standard that everyone will ignore. As such, I think that the best thing will be to just name an article about a village or other location in Ukraine by the simplest way (just the name of the village), and then when multiple occurrences come up later, we'll deal with them as they happen - most likely by doing a disamiguation page like you outlined above.

In other words, in the above example, we'd just make an article that would be titled Berezivka. After the first one, we'd put a sub-title after subsequent articles to disambiguate them, so the subsequent articles would have titles like: Berezivka (Yemilchyne Raion), or Berezivka (Volodarks Raion), etc. Then, in the disambiguation page, it would look like this:

Berezivka may refer to:
Berezivka (a village in the Troyotskyi Raion)
Berezivka (a village in the Yemilchyne Raion)
Berezivka (a village in the Volodarks Raion)

How does that sound? --Saukkomies ^talk 21:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Lol - great apart from I really am against using Raion in the title as well as brackets. It only needs to be in the disambiguation page. The reason for me wanting Berezivka, Troyotski is conformity in the en wiki. that is the format used for most other names -

Lancaster, Lancashire

Abingdon, Oxfordshire

Saint-Denis, Réunion

Brest, France

Bergheim, North Rhine-Westphalia

Lichtenau, Baden-Württemberg

Lichtenau, Westphalia

Also please note that those last two German towns are redirects from (Baden-Wurttemburg) and (Westphalia) as the brackets are considered bad use.

It would cut down on search engine troubles and other such things - and using brackets stops easy finding of articles in searches.

Ah well, there are only the two of us and we arent going to get anywhere if we both stick to our guns lol

Lets agree to differ for now and as there are plenty of things to be going on with and like you say most will ignore !

Chaosdruid (talk) 22:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like we have an agreement then - and a standard. --Saukkomies ^talk 04:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

So - I am going to go ahead and write up a brief outline of the village/town article naming standard based on the points we agreed on above, and will include it in the WikiProject:Ukraine main page, with a redirect to a larger sub-article that details the precise details of the standard. This will serve as the Project's "official" standard for naming articles about Ukrainian towns and villages in the English language Wikipedia. Comments and suggestions about this are welcome. --Saukkomies ^talk 16:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Correction: Instead of putting this on the main page, I'm going to put it where the rest of the guidelines are located for creating articles about Ukrainian topics, specifically here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukraine/Subdivisions#Article structure. --Saukkomies ^talk 16:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay, well, that took a while! After spending about six hours on it, I wrote up a step-by-step guide on how to adhere to the official WikiProject:Ukraine geographical naming standard! It's located here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukraine/Subdivisions#Villages, Towns, Cities. Comments and suggestions are welcome, as always. --Saukkomies ^talk 21:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mykola Mazepa

The article Mykola Mazepa was translated by machine from the article in the Ukrainian Wikipedia. Comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mykola Mazepa and additional references or other imrpovements at Mykola Mazepa would be appreciated. I can't tell whether the person’s accomplishments add up to notability. — Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

NNPOV & Russification of Ukraine-related articles

I would like to advise the members of this project that there is a small contingent of editors who are removing Ukraine-related aspects and categories from bios of Ukrainian-born individuals who were active outside Ukraine, in particular in Russia. This is one notable pattern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Glebchik if anyone here would be interested in keeping an eye on the issue. -Galassi (talk) 14:38, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

My advice on this is to form a joint working relationship with someone from both the WikiProject:Russia and WikiProject:Ukraine to work on articles that are of a Ukrainian nature, especially from the Soviet Era, which is what the articles I looked at in the list cited above seem to be. Russia does have some claim to these subjects, but so does Ukraine, and so we need to find someone from the Russian WikiProject who is: 1) open to working with someone from the Ukraine WikiProject on these types of articles, and 2) someone who has a fair amount of clout within the Russian WikiProject community, so any work that is done will be more likely to be sanctioned by both WikiProject communities.

There are actually some very decent and dedicated Wiki enthusiasts in the WikiProject:Russia online community, and I'm sure that someone could be found who would be willing to work with us on this. For myself, I am very very unfamiliar with 20th Century Ukrainian history and politics, which means I would maybe not be the best choice to represent the Ukraine WikiProject. However, on the other hand, having someone who is NOT Ukrainian or Russian might actually be a good qualification for a representative, since he or she would not be likely to be accused of acting out of nationalistic motivations for any suggestions profered in regard to editing style and focus in these articles.

If this is set up, we should make sure that there is a note on both the Russian and Ukrainian WikiProject main page that directs editors to precisely whom they would need to contact to insure that any article that touches on Russian/Soviet/Ukrainian themes is acceptable to both Russian and Ukrainian WikiProject communities. That way there will be a system in place to resolve any potential disputes, and to act as an oversight. --Saukkomies ^talk 16:13, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

State flag colors

Greetings,

I just found something interesting that could help solve our image problems for good. In 2009, there was a proposed law submitted to the Rada about the state flag. The text that was included in this law is the following (in Ukrainian):

"3. Технічні вимоги до виготовлення Державного Прапора України та відтворення його кольорів встановлюються національним стандартом України, який затверджується центральним органом виконавчої влади з питань стандартизації."

Google Translate spits out the following+

"3. Specifications for the manufacture of the State Flag of Ukraine and the reproduction of the color set national standards of Ukraine, which was adopted by the central executive body on standardization."

Well, I will try and see what this standards office is, but I hope this is what you are looking for. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 00:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

After a Google search, the document we need is "ДСТУ 4512:2006 - Державний прапор України. Загальні технічні умови - вперше." I will try and get this document, but not sure how. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 00:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I am afraid that it's very uninteresting document ⇪-- W.M.drossel 15 april 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.207.105.6 (talk) 10:32, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Oleksandr Astafiev

A new user created this article (Ukrainian poet and professor). It is completely unreferenced, and I'm having trouble finding sources for it. Can someone familiar with this topic take a look to see if the article is notable and verifiable? Thanks, PDCook (talk) 21:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Jacob Frank now a mascot for Wikipedia sister project Wikiversity

Hi, I'm developing Jacob Frank (an 18th-century Jew who lived in the Ukraine and developed a religious movement called Frankism) as a mascot for Wikipedia's sister project Wikiversity. Wikiversity aims to be an online open school and university, and was also created to host original research. Because of its nature, it's open to educational resources in almost any format. Wikiversity's mascots appear on User talk pages when new Users are welcomed. In my opinion, the Wikiversity mascots could be used more fully as an opportunity to teach. The previously developed Wikiversity mascots lack intrinsic educational value. For example, they include a jack-o-lantern, a goat and twin babies not noticeably tied to anything else. In contrast, Jacob Frank is tied to a chapter of history that is relatively little-known and is probably interesting to some people who might not have heard of him beforehand. I'm also hoping to use his professed ignorance in real life and his doctrine of "purification through transgression" to introduce the Wikiversity policies of "Be bold" and "Ignore all rules" (Wikipedia has very similar policies with the same names). I would appreciate your going over to Wikiversity to provide feedback on the pages about the mascot: v:User:JacobFrank and v:Template:JacobFrank. The Template is left on new Users' talk pages; the Userpage is linked from the template and provides more information about Jacob Frank. Also, any ideas for other Wikiversity mascots? Thanks. --AFriedman (talk) 04:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot

User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects provides a list, updated daily, of unreferenced living people articles (BLPs) related to your project. There has been a lot of discussion recently about deleting these unreferenced articles, so it is important that these articles are referenced.

The unreferenced articles related to your project can be found at >>>Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukraine/Archive 4/Unreferenced BLPs<<<

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If you have any questions or concerns, visit User talk:DASHBot/Wikiprojects. Okip 23:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Taras Voznyak

I'm having trouble determining the notability of this article's subject, because all the references appear to be offline and in Ukrainian. Could a user fluent in Ukrainian could take a look at the references and try to determine the subject's notability? Thanks. – Hysteria18 ^{(Talk • Contributions)} 21:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't read Ukrainian (other than just being able to transliterate from Cyrillic), but I took a look at the article about Voznyak in the Ukrainian Wikipedia, and it seems at cursory glance to be identical to the English Wikipedia article about him. Given that, I would hazard a guess that if the Ukrainian Wiki editors feel that he is notable enough to maintain such a lengthy article about this man, that he probably is also notable enough to warrant his inclusion in the English Wikipedia, too. But, as I say, this is speculation. I don't really know if one can even justify inclusion in the English Wikipedia simply because there is an article about a subject in another language Wikipedia... --Saukkomies ^talk 16:45, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons

The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 32,665 as of May 16. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukraine/Unreferenced BLPs. As of May 17 you have approximately 31 articles to be referenced. The list of all other WikiProject UBLPs can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 16:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Dumbest advice in wikipedia in months

This "advice" to ask for a third opinion from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Russia during a edit conflict in the article about the Ukrainian President by Chzz has to be the dumbest advice in wikipedia in months. Apparently Holland is a German Province and Finland is part of Sweden or whatever... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 23:33, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Amusing incident. It brings to mind the Chinese concept of when the Mandate of heaven is withdrawn. --Saukkomies ^talk 07:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Obviously the wreath was being used by the Almighty to make a statement about the relative relationship between Ukraine and Russia </sarcasm off> :p (Taivo (talk) 08:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC))

File:Navy.gif — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 09:25, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I can add this to my list of faves - including American TV programmes that state "I picked up some Russian language while I was in Kiev"

Dear American Scriptwriters, Ukraine is a country and the USSR is NOT Russia, Just like Scotland, which is part of the UK, is NOT England you id**ts

THat and the belief that Salo in chocolate is a real Ukranian delicacy

Stupid Muller Rice adverts - I rang them up and complained that they were making Ukrainians look bad and they looked up a website and told me it was true and that I was wrong !!

K - i've calmed down now...

Anyhoo (that was for Sauk lol) I think that he was suggesting we contact the Russian project to ask them to help stopping their editors from doing that. That would mean of course that these editors would have to be part of the project rather than random Russians on some evil secret mission

Chaosdruid (talk) 02:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

AFD: Metallurgy of Ukraine

Please review/comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Metallurgy of Ukraine. Ironholds volunteered to improve it but it definitely needs more eyes. East of Borschov (talk) 07:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Puscha-Vodytsia

Greetings to Project Ukraine! This is a head's-up alert for the query I've posted at the Puscha-Vodytsia Talk page. I realize the second consonant is a problematic one for romanization, but I'm more bothered by the terminal vowel. -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 04:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Replied on talk page

Chaosdruid (talk) 07:45, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Malyn - romanized thus or otherwise?

I've posted this query on the Talk:Malyn page. While I see various spellings on the interwiki pages for Malyn, some with diacritics, I need to know the preferred romanization in English for this place name, particularly its second vowel. Certainly if it's to be changed, the page will need moving likewise. -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 09:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Why would it be changed ??? reply added on talk page

Chaosdruid (talk) 10:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Romanisation

See this link

Romanization#Ukrainian

thanks

Chaosdruid (talk) 10:17, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

What is a "Descent"

Hi all

I am a little at a loss to know how to address the issues in this article Borychiv Descent.

What is a Descent ? I cannot find any real info on what one is lol

thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 22:11, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

• It is just a historic street that runs downhill, see more in Andriyivskyy Descent. The word descent should be unlinked. East of Borschov 22:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

A "descent" in Kyiv is a road that goes downhill from the upper city to the Podil. It's a descent from the hilltop to the riverside. The descents in Kyiv tend to be relatively steep. --Taivo (talk) 00:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Lol - it can't be that simple surely !

OK I am guessing that there is something more to it - for example the one you linked to looks like it was specifically the only road up to the castle - are all descents old and do any of them also generally lead to castles or other important buildings ?

Do they opnly appear in Kiev ?

Chaosdruid (talk) 22:50, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The descents don't lead "up" to anywhere--they lead "down" to the Podil in Kyiv (that's why they're called "descents" rather than "ascents"). The slope from the hilltop in Kyiv where the old city was located is rather steep and it is a noticeable descent down to the old docks on the Dniepr and the markets of the Podil. I don't recall hearing the name "descent" attached to any streets in other towns of Ukraine, nor to any other streets in Kyiv besides those that run from the hilltop to the Podil. That's not a scientific survey, just my memory of the street names in Kyiv and other towns I visited when I was living in Ukraine. There definitely aren't any descents in Rivne even though there are long slopes there. I think it's a feature of Kyiv because of the steepness of the hill. Some things really are simple. The world-famous Boardwalk in Atlantic City, New Jersey was a walkway made out of boards. --Taivo (talk) 03:24, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, while the descents lead northeastwards off the old hilltop to the Podil, the roads that lead in a southerly direction off the hilltop towards the area of Majdan, for example, are not called "descents" because they are not so steep. Podil is really a bit unique in Kyiv's geography because it's like a hole or gap in the line of hills that the old city was built on. A steep descent into the "hole" was more noteworthy than just walking up a hill to another of a line of hilltop fortifications. --Taivo (talk) 07:22, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Odessa and Kharkiv have their own descents (i.e. streets with узвіз in name). Moscow has just one, a fairly recent creation (Васильевский спуск vs. Ukrainian узвіз). East of Borschov 16:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

@Taivo - Lol if youre stood at the bottom (like the guy that did the picture) then its leading up :¬)

If they were named by the "leaders/Rulers" who lived up there in the castles then I suppose they descend into important areas. Andriyivskyy descent runs from the "two hares" down to Pokrovska str just before orange square? Borychiv looks like its crosses Andriyivskyy street towards the waterfront and lloks like its called street until it gets almost to the end then turns left and is called descent for the last 300m - is that right ?

Where AD crosses BD it could have been that they used to be join up and all one thing...The last 120m of AD looks flat

If you took this building away [1] it looks like they were a continuous descent all the way from the hare monument down to the waterfront

Chaosdruid (talk) 09:24, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Crap - I just did a google search for "descent Odessa" and got 10 descents !!

For historical explanation of the origin of Kievan descents I can say that once city of Kiev used to have its own Princely fortified castle with three gates. It stood on top of a hill and was referred to as the High City (Upper City). Sometime after the incorporation of Kiev into the Russian Empire the castle was disassembled, while the Russian government build its own Kiev Fortress where the Russian garrison was installed. The only part that left of the Ancient Princely Kiev castle is the Golden Gates. Andriyivskyy Descent has a very nice description of the origin where it's mentioning the Old-Kiev mountain (Starokyivska hora). In my opinion descents were adopted in reference to the city of Kiev (the Princely castle), while at the bottom of the hills were located settlements other than Kiev city. I cannot think of an antonym for the Ukrainian word uzviz (descent) as it can be done in English. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Ukraine articles updates to lists

Hi all

I have just run the toolserver to update the lists

pages updated-

• Project summary tables (Ukraine)
• Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ukraine/Assessment
• Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ukraine#Articles and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ukraine#Requested_articles sections

Chaosdruid (talk) 23:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Transliteration issue

Please express your opinion on the proposed move borsch -> borscht here. Thank you. Materialscientist (talk) 22:25, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

identify coat of arms?

Can anyone identify the coat of arms inside this File:Scouting and Guiding in Ukraine regional organization.png Scout logo? It is Ukrainian but clearly Russian-speaking.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 08:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

• Answered at your talk page. It's a COAs of a town from the former Ryazan governorate, Russia, but which town ? East of Borschov 19:16, 24 August 2010 (UTC) It's Yegoryevsk, Moscow oblast. East of Borschov 19:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, you made my whole week!!!--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 01:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Jackie Evancho, America's newest singing sensation

(pronounced as the "ch" is a "k").

What is her ethnicity? Is she Rusyn American or Ukrainian American? Thoughts, please. – Jwkozak91 (talk) 21:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Drizzle (film)

The article Drizzle (film) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references failed to find significant coverage in reliable sources to comply with notability requirements. This included web searches for news coverage, books, and journals, which can be seen from the following links:
Drizzle (film) – news, books, scholar
Consequently, this article is about a subject that appears to lack sufficient notability.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 16:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:List of Ukrainian Jews#Proposed_page_move

A discussion has begun regarding a proposed move of List of Ukrainian Jews to List of Jews from Ukrainian lands. Dlohcierekim 01:58, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Infobox picture in the article Ukrainians

A discussion has begun regarding the picture in the infobox in the article Ukrainians on the talkpage of that article. Editors have stated that some in the current picture can not be called "Ukrainian". More input in the discussion is welcome since it currently is a stalemate. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 02:14, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Ukraine articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Ukraine articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:46, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:List of Ukrainians#You call this a ukranian list?

A discussion has begun regarding a proposed move of List of Ukrainians. Because some of the list are not ethnic Ukrainians. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 20:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

i to y

Hi

I have just given a warning to a renamer, Rkononenko.User_talk:Rkononenko#Myrhorod_or_Mirgorod, User_talk:Rkononenko#Kyiv_.2F_Kiev, [2] & [3]

He has been changing "i" to "y" again. I have given him a level four final warning for [4] and [5] :

"You have been asked many times to NOT change the "i" to "y" in names. Changing Kiev to Kyiv when it is NOT the "Official name", or "Kievsky" to "Kyivsky"'"

Was I correct or did I miss a debate on naming policy and these changes and page moves were OK (I do not want to give someone a bad warning !

thanks :¬) Chaosdruid (talk) 20:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Any renaming of articles in the English Wikipedia that involve the Ukrainian/Russian issue should be agreed to on the talk page first. The issue is too controversial and sensitive for editors to just cavalierly go about moving articles without building a consensus first. Rkononenko has a history of edit wars on this matter. IMHO, your warning was justified, but I'm not an admin. --Taivo (talk) 21:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I believe it was decided that Kiev is the officially accepted name for the capital of Ukraine in Wikipedia, however the use of Kyiv was also allowed although the main article on Kiev would be remain as it is, while having an explanation about that issue. It should be noted that often in English the sound for i is similar to Ukrainian и (y), while e is similar to Ukrainian i, therefore the Kiev-Kyiv disagreement, in my opinion, is silly. A Russian-looking name adaptation was accepted for Odessa as in the Ukrainian language it is spelled as Odesa, however it should be noted that the origin of the city's name is not Russian, but rather Greek where it is spelled with doubled s. Other than that all other names are transliterated according to the Ukrainian pronunciation and transliteration. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Copyright concerns related to your project

This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Wikipedia:Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located here.

All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 14:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Valya Semerenko

Valj Semerenko - Valj? ?! Isn't it just a convenienve abbreviation used on TV scoreboards ? Time to remain to just Valentina Semerenko ? NVO (talk) 07:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

"Google" gives more hits for Valj Semerenko (0 for Valya Semerenko by the way) then Valentina Semerenko, so I say it is correct. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 05:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Simple Question

Would S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl and its sequels fall into your project? I ask because GSC Game World, their developer, is a Ukrainian company, and the games take place in the Ukraine.Halofanatic333 (talk) 12:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Patriarch Moses (Koulik)

Hi all

Can someone go and see if they can make head or tail of the mess the article is in. It came up on the January Copy edit drive and I have marked it as "in too bad a state for a copyedit"

Chaosdruid (talk) 20:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Ambiguous links to Ukrainian Orthodox Church

Greetings! This month, we have a large number of links to the disambiguation page, Ukrainian Orthodox Church. We at the Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links project would really appreciate any help you could give us in fixing those links. Cheers! bd2412 T 12:41, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Simon Kuznets

There is a dispute at Talk:University of Kharkiv about whether or not the noble-prize winning economist Simon Kuznets was a student of the University of Kharkiv. It would benefit from the input of knowledgeable third-parties. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Navigation template

It would be very helpful to have a navigation template for all the cultures that were incorporated into modern day Ukraine. I'm not sure how to structure it by time period. Would anyone be interested in working on this? USchick (talk) 21:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean by navigation template. Do you have any you can use as an example? Chaosdruid (talk) 00:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Pan

May you write Pan (title) article ? (Idot (talk) 05:01, 6 March 2011 (UTC))

HDI of Ukraine

The HDI of Ukraine is 0.729 not 0.710 which has been unchanged in the english version of the article for quite some time (In other languages, the article has been updated). It says so in the list of countries by HDI and also in the source. Please change, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.110.118 (talk) 07:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for catching that. (Shredder2012 (talk) 23:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC))

Ukraine or Kievean Rus?

The article is confusing. Has it always been called Ukraine or not? If not then the article should call it by its old name when discussing it in historical context as it confuses those of us who aren't that familiar with that region's history. MPA 11:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MPA (talk • contribs)

You may read Name of Ukraine

I fully agree with the above comment. All attempts to retrospective change of history make no good as to its objective understanding. I wonder how long some of modern nationalistic ukrainian history re-makers would have lived had they personally called any of old russian dukes "ukrainian". :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.148.5.4 (talk) 22:40, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I think you are modern russian nationalist;) Volodimirg (talk) 13:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

This is a problem. There is considerable confussion which was casued after Peter I made the the Moscovites adopt the ethnonym Russian for self identification. Ruthenians were now constantly confused being with Moscovites, and Ruthenian language consused with Moscovite language because of its similarlity in look and sound with Russian. Indeed, in Shevchenko's poetry writings he never uses the term Ukraininian as an ethnonym, he always uses the ethnonym Kozak for Ukrainian, and Moscovite for Russian, although he uses the term Ukraine often in the geographic sense. This confusion which was brought on by Peter I is the main reason why the Ruthenians adopted the ethnonym Ukrainian. I for one would welcome the return to the old usage of the ethnonyms, with Russian changed back to Moscovite, and Ukrainian back to Ruthenium, however I do not think that is possible in todays society. It would be expensive, and confusing. So in order to avoid further confusion I guess we have to stick with Ukrainian. Bandurist (talk) 16:20, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

What is your original,historical source(chronicle, document et cet.) about Peter I making the Moscovites adopt the ethnonym "Russian"?

The people of Great Russia("Great" in the sense of being the north part of Ancient Rus, with Little and White Russia being the other two parts) have always identified themselves as Russians, with term "Moscovites" being used occasionally as a replacement for "Rus" in 16-17 centuries by some with the aim either to estrange parts of previoulsy united Rus or to minutely identify dwellers around Moscow.The other reason for occasianl usage of term " Moscovites" was the fact that in 16 century, only north part of ancient Rus was an independent state, with Little Russia( modern-day ukraine) and White Russia ( belarus) being under foreing control. Before Peter I many tzars including Ivan the Terrible, were officially called "Grand dukes of Rus". Virtually all ancient chronicles, both russian and foreign, used term " Russian" with regard to people of today's north-western Russia.

Extract from Middle Ages chronicle of Livonia of Baltazar Russow regarding Livonian war:"Russians are very steady as to defending fortresses;if they have flour and vodka they'll stand to the last man." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.148.5.4 (talk) 05:57, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

So far I cannot make head or tail over what is being said is wrong with the articles.

The history of Ukraine is about the land that Ukraine occupies and the people who identify themselves as Ukrainian. A continuous link going back through the people who lived in the land can be traced all the way back to the Cucuteni. One kingdom that existed in this land in the past were the Kievan Rus'.

How is this changing history? If anything it clearly shows the ancestry of a majority of the eastern Ukrainians as well as some Russians. Please try and explain what you have issues with. Chaosdruid (talk) 16:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The term "Kyivan Rus" has political implications. The state was known as Rus' without the modifier "Kyivan" in its various forms. This was added later by Muscovite historians for political reasons. Bandurist (talk) 18:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

@Bandurist - Please do not modify the page until consensus has been found, if the most common usage is Kievan Rus then there is no justification to change it.

There is also the problem that the Kievan Rus page is still called that, it makes no sense to be making massive changes to the history of Ukraine without making sure that is the correct name. Chaosdruid (talk) 21:54, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

For example I am trying to read Magosci to start with and then move to some other books on the history - it would help if we can first establish what constitutes "good reading material" from which we can determine the most appropriate course of action to take.

If the term Kievan Rus is going to be changed to Rus, it must be determined for all articles, and that is such a massive impact on the Ukraine articles we cannot end up with edit warring over page moves and suchlike as it will have a greatly detrimental impact if consensus is not found first. Chaosdruid (talk) 22:07, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

This piece of land has been through many conquests, border disputes, name changes and legal decrees from various governing bodies. Every new conqueror wants to rewrite history and erase the old one. Today, it is a country called Ukraine. Kievan Rus was a place in history with different borders than modern day Ukraine, and has a place in history in modern day Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. At the time of Kievan Rus, Ukraine was a region at the edge. Rus and Kievan Rus were also different things at different times. Primary Chronicle is a good source and available in major libraries in English. USchick (talk) 03:15, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately this is getting out of hand very quickly, similar edits seem to be being made at all Kievan Rus', Rus and history of Ukraine articles: dropping "Kievan Rus'" to "Rus", removing East Slav, adding "Norse" and removing Scandinavian, claiming different religions and languages - it really needs to be discussed in one central location, a consensus found and then for all the articles to correctly reflect the consensus (which may need to be given more than 24 hours to allow a reasonable amount of editors to both find and weigh in on the discussion) Chaosdruid (talk) 13:42, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about the other articles, but his edits in this one were accurate. He has a good point, but it needs to be discussed, because there are different sources and they all say something different. USchick (talk) 13:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I will say - Kievan Rus. And, they know why CraigMurray3 (talk) 16:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

This "civil war-like conditions" are not news for Euro Union. Since 2008, Russia Consulate operate in Brussels, capital of a political party <Jeguminisation and Ariadna Kievan Rus>. The party president, presidential candidate in the future via the Ukraine, has discussed with Politikere place of everything. There were several manifestations and Mitingen to support the modernization of the state border of Ukraine. Now. Military forces are on the stuff. Martelli22 (talk) 11:46, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

White House means white Politic. Also in question or Kiev Kievan Rus. Future via President Kievan Rus are ye were several years on food subsidies U.S. Baptists .BlueBonet (talk) 11:51, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Rus' or Kievan Rus'

As this is of high importance to all the Ukraine articles I have made a new talk page here and transcluded this discussion to Talk

Ukraine, Talk:Kievan Rus' and the Ukraine portal. That way we can try and eliminate much of the duplication on all the talk pages.

The term Kievan before Rus' has an anti-scientific genesis.

Note that "Kievan Rus" and "Old Russia" or "Rus-Ukraine" - are all terms that originated in the imagination of researchers and scientists. Contemporaries called this state "Ruthenian land" or "Rus'". According to researchers, the term "Kievan Rus" arose in the bosom of the official historiography of Moscow and St. Petersburg, which was represented primarily works of Karamzin, S. Soloviev, V. Klyuchevskaya and other prominent historians of the Russian Empire. It is known that they defended the concept of genealogical continuity over time the ruling princely family in Moscow [1]. From the second half of the nineteenth century the term became popular in the history that has grown sharply in the intellectual debate on historiography of the state. So, the term "Kievan Rus" originates not from the sources and historical works but from the pages of the imperial era. During this period the historiography, literary aspects of amateurs approached into a serious science, which began to explore the important issues of national history of methodological, conceptual positions.

More can be read from Anatoliy Pavko's article: Інститут державної влади Київської Русі в контексті політичних процесів сьогодення - Серед питань становлення та розвитку Київської Русі найважливішим є історичний досвід формування та функціонування інститутів політичної влади Давньоруської держави. [[6]] You can run it through google translate.Bandurist (talk) 16:59, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Bandurist, we'll take your word for it. :-) According to the Primary Chronicle: This is the tale of bygone years: from whence came the Russian land, who first ruled in Kiev, and from which source the Russian land had its beginning. I understand that you're a scholar, and I'm not trying to argue with you. However, If Kiev is the source of Russian land, I would think that the Russian Federation got its beginnings in what is modern day Kiev, Ukraine. Also, there are other sources that claim different things, depending on what nation is telling the story from their own historical perspective. Please discuss your changes. If Ruthenians called it something, I hope they lived long enough to write it down so we can use it here as a reference. It's great to have a historian contributing to this article, thank you for your contribution! USchick (talk) 17:23, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Just a small note from you statement above. It should not be Russian lands but Rus' lands. If you (incorrectly) state that it was "Kievan Russia", then it is easy to infer that the continuation of this state was Russia and then also the the Russian Federation. However this is not so. It is a minor difference, but a valid one, comparible to using other imperialist terms inaccurately. Bandurist (talk) 17:13, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I understand the problem you have with the usage of the term Kievan Rus'. If you are correct then the page will have to be moved as long as the term Kievan Rus' is NOT the most common name for it.

As this will affect all Ukrainian pages that deal with history and the infoboxes we need to really be careful that this is the best thing to do here. If it is there will be a lot of work to do to make all pages the same and remove the Kievan from them all.

I do not doubt tht what you say is correct, but I need to see it for myself and to find consensus from everyone on the matter, If we cannot get agreement we may need to start a wider discussion or maybe even an RfC on it.

I propose this course of action:

• Discuss here to find consensus on keeping/changing
• If we find consensus, start a requested page move "Kievan Rus' ->" Rus to widen the discusion
• If the result is to move, then we need to assemble a list of pages that will be affected
• Once assembled we will need to change them all with a linkback to the move discussion and note it all on the Ukraine portal and talk pages.

If we can just get an agreement on this course of action first, by signing here and yes no, then I think we can proceed. Chaosdruid (talk) 10:47, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Can someone please clarify what is in question? Rus is a region. Kievan Rus' is the name coined by Nikolai Karamzin for the state of Rus from approximately 880 to sometime in the middle of the 13th century when it disintegrated. USchick (talk) 17:53, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to proceed

• Support As nominator Chaosdruid (talk) 10:47, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

• Don't understand what the problem is or what is being suggested. Can someone elaborate? Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 22:10, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that there is a claim by Bandurist and others that the term "Kievan Rus'" is incorrect and was made up by Russian sources. The editors also claim that the term should be "Rus" and that all mention of "Kievan Rus'" should be changed to "Rus" in all articles. I am suggesting that we discuss this and decide whether such a massive change is to be made before the articles are all changed. Chaosdruid (talk) 21:07, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, ok. That move won't happen. The era is called Kievan Rus because that is the time when Rus/Russia was dominated by Kiev (as opposed to Moscow),. It is just a historiographic convention, and has been used since before English writers thought of Ukraine and Belarus as not Russia. In my experience patriotic Ukrainians are usually not OK with "Kievan Russia" but don't mind "Kievan Rus", even though the words have the same historic meaning. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 22:21, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

There is a difference between the terms Kievan Rus' and Kievan Russia. The distinction is mnor but it is there none the less. Bandurist (talk) 17:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

East Slavic tribes as founders of Kievan Rus

Why does the intro say that Kievan rus was founded by East Slavic tribes. It doesnt correlate very well with the article. I've tried to fix it but then User talk:Chaosdruid threatens to ban me... Alphasinus (talk) 12:13, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

According to the article, it was founded by Scandinavian warriors. Slavic tribes lived there, along with lots of other people. USchick (talk) 17:57, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I did not threaten to ban you, I cannot ban you. There is a procedure called WP:BRD which states that the first editor changes and article, the next editor disagress and reverts the changes and then we all discuss it on the talk page. THe problem was that you were going to breach WP:3RR which is a rule to prevent edit warring which says that we cannot have 3 reverts in a 24 hour period.

The thing is you need to find consensus by convincing me and other editors that what you are saying is correct, preferably by posting some links here that show your claims to be accurate.

To write the east slavs out of the formation of the Rus is quite a large change. At the moment it seems that you are claiming the "Norse" people, previously we had Varangians, came along and formed a state here without the slavic population having anything to do with it. Previously it was accepted that the article stated that the east slavs formed a state and the varangians were invited to rule. ::I advise you to prove what you are saying by making some posts of text from books or links to sites which support your claims Chaosdruid (talk) 21:04, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The material you are changing to has no sources, is unreferenced and is dubious, please provide proof here before changing again.

Avoiding WP:BRD is not going to get us anywhere and the edit warring is not going to achieve anything apart from making even more problems. Chaosdruid (talk) 21:21, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

From the Encyclopaedia Britannica:

"According to tradition, the Slavs of Novgorod, tired of political turmoil, invited the Varangian prince Rurik to rule the city. He arrived in about 862 and established the dynasty that ruled various parts of East Slavic territory until 1598. After Rurik's death his relative Oleg became ruler of Novgorod and in 882 added Kiev to his domains, making it his capital. This was the beginning of Kievan Rus, the first East Slavic state." Chaosdruid (talk) 21:47, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

(from my talk page)

East Slavic founders of Kievan Rus

Please get a source before you insert claims that East Slavic tribes founded Kievan Rus. It's not even mentioned as a theory in the main article so i see no reason for putting it as a fact in the summary. I've adressed this at the talk page several times but you dont seem to respond. Its hard to get WP:BRD then. Alphasinus (talk) 22:08, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

"Slavic tribes occupied central and eastern Ukraine in the sixth century A.D. and played an important role in the establishment of Kyiv. Kievan Rus Prince Volodymyr converted the Kievan nobility and most of the population to Christianity in 988. Situated on lucrative trade routes, Kyiv quickly prospered as the center of the powerful state of Kievan Rus. In the 11th century, Kievan Rus was, geographically, the largest state in Europe. Conflict among the feudal lords led to decline in the 12th century. Mongol raiders razed Kyiv in the 13th century." from [7] --Taivo (talk) 22:42, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The four tribes who had been forced to pay tribute to the Varangians — Chuds, Slavs, Merians, and Krivichs drove the Varangians back beyond the sea, refused to pay them further tribute, and set out to govern themselves. But there was no law among them, and tribe rose against tribe. Discord thus ensued among them, and they began to war one against the other. They said to themselves, "Let us seek a prince who may rule over us, and judge us according to custom". Thus they went overseas to the Varangians, to the Rus. These particular Varangians were known as Rus, just as some are called Swedes, and others Normans and Angles, and still others Gutes, for they were thus named. The Chuds, the Slavs, the Krivichs and the Veps then said to the Rus, "Our land is great and rich, but there is no order in it. Come reign as princes, rule over us". Three brothers, with their kinfolk, were selected. They brought with them all the Rus and migrated.

— The Primary Chronicle

I would be careful using the United States government as a source since they would probably leave out information that could be of potential poltical dispute. As far as i know, the Varangian role in the founding of Kievan Rus is pretty controversial in the East Slavic countries. Alphasinus (talk) 00:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the Primary Chronicle is not a reliable source since it is a primary document, not a secondary source. Thus, while the US government document isn't the best source, it is considered a tertiary source, based on secondary sources. Thus, the Wikipedia hierarchy for quality of sources is 1) secondary source (preferably scholarly), 2) tertiary source (based on secondary sources), 3) primary source. The point is that the role of the non-Slavic Varangians is debatable. While they were involved, their relative level of involvement is in dispute. While you caution about the use of a government document, you use one as well--the Primary Chronicle is, in essence, the official propaganda of the Kievan regime. To quote the Wikipedia entry on the Primary Chronicle: "Nestor worked at the court of Sviatopolk II of Kiev and probably shared his pro-Scandinavian policies." So you choose your propaganda. Find a scholarly source. --Taivo (talk) 02:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the Primary Chronicle is not a primary source because it was compiled by monks from much older sources. It is one of the oldest historical documents available, and it does reflect history from the lens of the people writing it. However, together with other historical documents, it's a much better source than what the modern scholars have been able to come up with. USchick (talk) 16:23, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Non-Slavic people in this region were nomadic in nature, and much less likely to write their history, since the only people allowed to write were Christian monks. Everyone else attempting to write at that time were killed. What scholarly source wouldn't be considered propaganda? I think the best we can do in this case is go with the policy of: making sure that all majority and significant minority views that have appeared in reliable, published sources are covered. USchick (talk) 19:15, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Some sources of non-slavic non-scandinavian origin

Greek

Further information: Paphlagonian expedition of the Rus' and Rus'–Byzantine War (860)

When the Varangians first appeared in Constantinople (Paphlagonian expedition of the Rus, Siege of Constantinople (860)), the Byzantines seem to have perceived the Rhos (Greek: Ῥώς) as a different people from the Slavs. At least they are never said to be part of the Slavic race. Characteristically, pseudo-Symeon Magister refers to the Rhos as Δρομΐται, a word related to the Greek word meaning "a run", suggesting the mobility of their movement by waterways.

Frankish

Further information: Annales Bertiniani

The Annals are notable, among other things, for containing one of the earliest written references to a group of Vikings who called themselves Rhos, that is the Rus' or early-Russian people. According to the Annals, these had visited Constantinople about the year 838. Fearful of returning home through the steppes, which would have left them vulnerable to attack by the Magyars, the Rhos set out with a Byzantine embassy hoping to obtain the Franks' assent for traveling via Germany. At Ingelheim royal residence, near Mainz, they were questioned by Frankish Emperor Louis the Pious and informed him that their leader was known as chacanus (with no doubt the Latin form for "Khagan" sometimes accordingly emended to chaganus, although formerly held to be a deformation of Scandinavian proper name Håkan)

Arab

The Arab diplomat and traveller, Ahmad ibn Fadlan, who visited Volga Bulgaria in 922, described the Rus (Rusiyyah)

I have seen the Rus as they came on their merchant journeys and encamped by the Itil. I have never seen more perfect physical specimens, tall as date palms, blond and ruddy; they wear neither tunics nor caftans, but the men wear a garment which covers one side of the body and leaves a hand free. Each man has an axe, a sword, and a knife, and keeps each by him at all times. The swords are broad and grooved, of Frankish sort. Each woman wears on either breast a box of iron, silver, copper, or gold; the value of the box indicates the wealth of the husband. Each box has a ring from which depends a knife. The women wear neck-rings of gold and silver. Their most prized ornaments are green glass beads. They string them as necklaces for their women.

— Gwyn Jones, A History of the Vikings

Persian

Persian traveler Ibn Rustah who allegedly visited Novgorod (or Tmutarakan, according to George Vernadsky) and described how the Rus' exploited the Slavs.

As for the Rus, they live on an island ... that takes three days to walk round and is covered with thick undergrowth and forests; it is most unhealthy.... They harry the Slavs, using ships to reach them; they carry them off as slaves and…sell them. They have no fields but simply live on what they get from the Slav's lands.... When a son is born, the father will go up to the newborn baby, sword in hand; throwing it down, he says, "I shall not leave you with any property: You have only what you can provide with this weapon."

— Ibn Rustah, National Geographic

Finnic

Sweden is called [Ruotsi|http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruotsi] in Finnish.

Baltic

Sweden is called [Rootsi|http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootsi] in Estonian.

The approximate extent of Old Norse and related languages in the early 10th century:

  Old West Norse dialect

  Old East Norse dialect

  Old Gutnish dialect

  Old English

  Crimean Gothic

  Other Germanic languages with which Old Norse still retained some mutual intelligibility

Merged with kiev culture

Map of Indo European migrations from ca. 4000 to 1000 BC according to the Kurgan model. The Anatolian migration (indicated with a dotted arrow) could have taken place either across the Caucasus or across the Balkans. The magenta area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area that may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC, and the orange area by 1000 BC.

• Zarubintsy culture
• Kurgan culture with first strong archaeological evidence for the domestication of the horse from the Sredny Stog culture north of the Azov Sea in Ukraine, 5th millennium BC. The earliest known chariot was discovered at Krivoye Lake and dates to c. 2000 BC.

Nomadic tribes in the area

The approximate extent of East Iranian languages in Middle Iranian times in the 1st century BC is shown in orange

Scythians

For Herodotus, the Scythians were outlandish barbarians living north of the Black Sea in what are now Moldova and Ukraine. (Michael Kulikowski, Rome's Gothic Wars from the Third Century to Alaric, pg. 14)

Herodotus wrote about an enormous city, Gelonus, in the northern part of Scythia "The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus."

Excavations near the village of Belsk in Ukraine have led to suggestions by archaeologist Boris Shramko and others identifying it as the Scythian capital Gelonus. It is strategically situated on the exact boundary between the steppe and forest-steppe. Several other locations have been named by Russian archaeologists like Saratov or a location near the Don River closer to the Volga River.

Sarmatians

The descendants of the Sarmatians became known as the Alans and ultimately gave rise to the modern Ossetic ethnic group.

Pecheneg

Eastern Europe, showing the area of main Pecheneg settlement, c.1015.

Pechenegs Turkic tribe: In the 9th century, the Byzantines became allied with the Pechenegs, using them to fend off other, more dangerous tribes such as the Rus and the Magyars. This was an old Roman ploy (divide and rule) continued by their Byzantine successors — playing off one enemy tribe against another. From the 9th century AD, the Pechenegs started an uneasy relationship with Kievan Rus. For more than two centuries they launched random raids into the lands of Rus, which sometimes escalated into full-scale wars (like the 920 war on the Pechenegs by Igor of Kiev reported in the Primary Chronicle), but there were also temporary military alliances (e.g. 943 Byzantine campaign by Igor). In 968, the Pechenegs attacked and then besieged the city of Kiev.

Oghuz

Oghuz Turks joined the Byzantine imperial forces as mercenaries (1065). Their writen documents are Book of Dede Korkut and Epic of Köroğlu.

Kipchak

Kipchak people known in Russian and Ukrainian as Polovtsy, by the 9th century, migrated into the Trans-Volga.

Kipchak-Cuman confederation in Eurasia circa 1200

Cuman

Cuman people of Cumania

Mongol Empire

Eurasia on the eve of the Mongol invasions, c. 1200.

The Mongol Empire was the largest contiguous land empire in history at its peak, with an estimated population of over 100 million people. The Mongol Empire was founded by Genghis Khan in 1206, and at its height, it encompassed the majority of the territories from southeast Asia to eastern Europe. After unifying the Mongol–Turkic tribes, the Empire expanded through conquests throughout continental Eurasia.

Expansion of the Mongol Empire

Cleanup effort

Yes, look, this is an article in really bad shape, that linked to terms like stepmother and squabble. In other words, it needs attention and a firm hand from good editors who don't pay attention to the trolling re Normanist vs. anti-Normanist, Russian historians vs. non-Russian historians, yadda

We should treat this britney crespo like any other nationalist-infested topic, reserve a section for "in modern nationalism" and stuff all the disputes in there, clearing the air for writing an article about the actual historical topic. --dab (𒁳) 10:29, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

By way of explanation, this is a major WP:LAME wikidispute that goes back to at least 2004. The existence of the separate articles Rus' Khaganate, Rus' people and Rus (name) are all due to this, and probably couldn't be justified in any sober manner. "Rus' Khaganate" is simply the term for the earliest 56 or 40 years of this state. It is silly to treat it as a separate entity unless you care really, really much about whether its rulers were "Viking warriors" or "Slavic Tribes". The two articles Rus' people and Rus (name) both simply treat the name "Rus" and can safely be merged. Note that Rus (name) doubles as the Name of Russia article and as such is legitimate. I sort of watched this from the sidelines in an on-and-off manner in late 2004 but I never had the heart to become involved[8]. But by now I think Wikipedia has gathered enough experience with ethnic nationalism fuelled problems and we should be able to fix it. --dab (𒁳) 11:16, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

The problem here is getting the facts right, keeping POV out and ensuring that things are correctly represented as per sources.

As I understand it, the facts of the matter are that the people that lived there established states which fell into disarray with constant warring and they invited the Rus in to rule them and provide leadership which made everything flourish. It was not, as it seems to read now, as if the Rus came in and conquered everybody and started the states on their own.

This situation has to be correctly written about and we should not tolerate anything which detracts from the sourced facts or introduces POV bias. Chaosdruid (talk) 12:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Coined by Karamzin

The article claims that The name "Kievan Rus'" (Ки́евская Русь) was coined by Nikolai Karamzin. This is possible, but unreferenced. It is also suspicious, because in this copy of Karamzin's "History of Russia", the term is conspicuously absent. Karamzin talks about Русь "Kiev" simply, and about "Varagian-Rus", but never about a "Kievan Rus". --dab (𒁳) 12:12, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Been quiet here for quite a while

I'd just mention that Kievan Rus', Kievan Rus, Rus, Kievan Russia, Kiev State, Kievan State are all used in sources to describe the state in question (let's center on mid-11th century although its tenure was much longer and significantly varied in territorial control). VєсrumЬа ►TALK 01:14, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Western and Southern Bug

Hi

I have just found an editor changing Western Bug and Southern Bug -> Bug River

They are creating a load of redirs and other problems. I am not sure how many are on Ukraine articles but I saw quite a few that probably are...

User history - [9] - I have asked them to stop but it may need some fixing :¬( Chaosdruid (talk) 20:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Patronyms in Ukrainian

Have patronymic middle names always been the case in Ukraine? In Canada, I've never met a Ukrainian with one of the typical "Father-ovych" middle names; neither of my parents were given them by their parents, and church records of my great grandparents and so forth that I have don't have them either. Just curious how deep this goes? --99.233.3.126 (talk) 17:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Partonymics in Ukrainian are recent, 20th century imports. Previously the standard form of address was "Pan First-name".--Galassi (talk) 19:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. Would this have existed in the west in the early to mid 1900s? Also, form of adressing not withstanding, were middle names still of the "ovych" suffix when written? --Львівське (talk) 07:31, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Ukrainian American Veterans

Hello, I am developing an article on the Ukrainian American Veterans organization in My Sandbox. Can someone take a look and give any advice on how what else may be needed to prevent the AFD Squad from attacking it? (I've learned to work out articles in my Sandbox area before launching them in the main directory). Thank you in advance. Gamweb (talk) 12:16, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I created the article live as of today: Ukrainian American Veterans. Please keep an eye on it to protect it from the AFD Squad. I need some volunteers to help with translating into Ukrainian and other language versions as well. I made certain the article is well-referenced. Gamweb (talk) 17:30, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Robert Meier

I asked for some clarification on the place of birth of Robert Meier on the talk page of Robert Meier. Is there anyone who can help resolve this ambiguity? Coyets (talk) 08:10, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

User:Many baks

My apologies if this is an inappropriate section for the request, but Many baks (talk · contribs) is creating articles on Ukrainian villages, translating articles from Ukrainian or Russian, and needs help understanding Wikipedia policies. See, for example, his edits on Talk:Taboty, User talk:FruitMonkey, User talk:Rcsprinter123, and Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for examples of some of his problems. Perhaps, if someone here could welcome him in Russian or Ukrainian, and give him some advice, it would be helpful. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

So, what's a problem?--Many baks (talk) 10:56, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I'll be happy to translate any specific issues you'd like to communicate. According to policy, location stubs are acceptable and not subject to deletion. The user is linking the articles to other Wiki language pages. I don't see a violation of policy, do you? USchick (talk) 16:59, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I nothing not I've violation--Many baks (talk) 18:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

On his talk page, we reviewed different requirements for English language WP, discussed Notability guidelines, and looked at examples of notable villages with references. I think Many baks has good intentions, but he will need assistance from time to time. This is a good portal for him to find partners interested in the same subject matter. USchick (talk) 19:24, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about his article-space edits; they may be fine, and I have no problem with them. (If ru.Wikipedia's sourcing policies are weaker than en.Wikipedia, there may eventually be problems.) I was only referring to his talk page comments, at Talk:Taboty (old version, rather than diff, as he created it), and then complaining on [User talk:FruitMonkey, User talk:Rcsprinter123 (and User talk:Rcsprinter123 (removed by the recipient) and WP:Village pump (policy) (reverted by me). He asked where the proper place is for discussion, and I can't figure out what he's trying to discuss; perhaps his edits to Taboty? That's the only definite concern I have at this time; if his articles (translated from ru.Wikipedia) are substandard, that would be a problem for this project. Sorry about any confusion. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:47, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Let's see what happens. USchick (talk) 14:29, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated T-34 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Ironholds (talk) 15:12, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Of all the things in the world, this is what's important and needs to be featured? Soviet Union tanks????? Sheesh! USchick (talk) 15:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

edit warring POV IP editor

Hi all

I made some reverts to an IP editor on several articles. They were basically removing Ukraine from the articles and inserting anti-Ukrainian text:

• Velykyi Khodachkiv
• Maksym Skorupsky
• Dmytro Klyachkivsky
• Palikrowy massacre
• Kuty (Kąty) defence
• Maksym Skorupsky
• Huta Pieniacka
• Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia
• Daniel of Galicia
• Stepan Bandera
• Mykola Lebed
• Novi Strilyscha
• Bereza Kartuska prison
• Chełm
• Treaty of Warsaw (1920)
• 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)

Unfortunately they are probably going to start warring about it. I did warn them on their user page User_talk:174.26.83.12#Full_list_of_POV_edited_pages, but they chose to tell me to "go take a nap and tone down the rhetoric" so I doubt that anything constructive is going to come from any discussions. Chaosdruid (talk) 15:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

WPU Activism Alert

		Help save Lviv's Golden Rose!
		The Golden Rose Synagogue in Lviv, Ukraine was designated a World Heritage Site in 1998. Built in 1582, it was one of the oldest and most beautiful synagogues in Europe. Having survived Nazi desecration, the Ukrainian authorities have now allowed it to be demolished to make space for a new hotel! This blatant destruction of a Jewish historic site must be stopped at all costs! Does anyone know how we can make our voices heard? Chesdovi (talk) 11:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Crimean Tatars

A POV pushing user continue to edit by his POV (without source) and de-neutralizes the article. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Featured article review for Hero of Ukraine

I have nominated Hero of Ukraine for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Brad (talk) 17:16, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello. This the FA process is not going so well. It would appear that Hero of Ukraine is on the road to being delisted. The biggest remaining concerns are the dead linked references and the missing citations. I have been working on this a bit, but I do not read Ukrainian or Russian. Is there anyone with the language skills who is able to help resolve these issues and find reliable sources? Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 16:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Infobox picture featuring famous Ukrainians in wiki-article Ukrainians

A discussion has started witch famous Ukrainians should be featured in the infobox picture in the wiki-article Ukrainians. Please contribute in this discussion here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:19, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Asking for help

On the Wikipedia page Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Croatia#Information it takes a while exhausting debate on the writing and writing at all of minority languages in articles about settlements in Croatia. Please if you have time, look at the page and try to help us in forming some kind of agreement. We will highly appreciate your effort.--MirkoS18 (talk) 23:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Crimea

I have suggested that WP:WikiProject Crimea be merged into WP:UKRAINE as a taskforce, see WT:WikiProject Crimea for the discussion. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 09:12, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

What is so special about 11 January????

Freedom Day was established in 2006 (it was celebrated on Nov. 22 in honor of the Orange Revolution) has been moved to 11 January late December 2011 by President Viktor Yanukovych. Can anybody please tell me if 11 January is a special date in Ukrainian history? Or was just a random date picked? This information might be handy to include Ukraine in the wiki article Freedom Day. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 03:24, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Forget it Kyiv Post made a typo, it has been moved to 22 January (that day was already Unification Day). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 04:05, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Category:Ukraine university stubs

Greetings! A stub template or category which you created has been nominated for renaming or deletion at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion. The stub type most likely doesn't meet Wikipedia requirements for a stub type, through failure to meet standards relating to the name, scope, current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Wikipedia:Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals! This message is a boilerplate, left here as a courtesy, and should not be considered personal in nature. Dawynn (talk) 03:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Ukraine will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in Ukraine's history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:55, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Mandyk Khasman

(Also posted to WP:RSN)

I CSD A7'ed this article. It was protested on my talk page, and I gave it a closer look. The article itself makes no claim to notability that I can see. The issue, however, is the three sources on the article. They are in a foreign language. This makes it hard for me to judge whether or not they qualify as RS. At least 2 of the three look likely to be in depth articles on the subject. If they are RS, then he may very well be notable for the coverage alone. From the WP article, the subject is from Ukraine, so the language is likely whatever the common language is of that country (Ukrainian or Russian). - TexasAndroid (talk) 15:49, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

My specific, immediate questions have been answered at WP:RSN. - TexasAndroid (talk) 19:46, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Kleparów

This article needs improvement. uk.wikipedia has a lot of information, but I can't read the language. Someone else should look after it. Thanks! --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 00:45, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Collage proposal (again...) for the article Ukrainians

We are discussing the collage proposal (again...) for the Wiki-article Ukrainians. Seems we are back at voting.... Feel free to join in! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:43, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

One editor is really trying to rushing things at the talkpage and seems to act as if he is given permission to decide for us what should be in the collage.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:31, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

UEFA 2012

There is a discussion on the talk page of the UEFA Euro 2012 article, co-hosted by Poland and Ukraine, on the proper way to treat controversies and concerns around the event which may be of interest to this project: [10] [11].VolunteerMarek 14:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Passenger air transport

Aviation is a hot topic now as the airlines and the airports intensively grow but still fail to provide the Euro2012 transit. Please pay attention to all related articles, Aerosvit Airlines in the first place. Happy edits, Ukrained2012 (talk) 18:17, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

List of raions in Ukraine by subdivision and Raions of Ukraine

I found two articles which are presumably supposed to describe the same thing. The second one is much better (I am currently working on it to get links correct). I posted the merge proposal, and, if there are no objections, I will transfer these very little things (like the type of the settlement) from the first to the second article, and replace the first one with a redirect.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:00, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Bronyetransportyor RfC

I just got invited to an RfC at Talk:Bronyetransportyor, but I have absolutely no idea about proper Russian transliteration. Would someone at this WikiProject who knows what they're talking about like to weigh in? Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 11:39, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Y Ukrained2012 (talk) 18:22, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Kosovskoye Lake

Please look at this. I've been told it does not exist. Misspelled? Deletable? Expandable? Thanks, Dlohcierekim 02:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

The colours used on the weather box of Ukrainian cities

You may have noticed that two ebr /> Consequently, this article is about a subject that appears to lack sufficient notability.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the ditors have been changing the colours on the weather boxes for Ukrainian cities for the past two months. There is a discussion of what colours they should be at Talk:Lviv#The colours used on the weather box. Please contribute, even if only to say that you don't care, but you just wish they would stop changing it.--Toddy1 (talk) 14:38, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

chicken kiev speech

sppedy deletion put up for Chicken Kiev speech, can i get some more eyes on this article? Love your opinions on the talk page and help expaning the article,

Thank you. Spoildead (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Imperial Russian categories

There is a proposal to merge Category:Imperial Russian people by occupation to Category:Russian people by occupation. This would result in indiscriminately calling many residents of 19th-century Ukraine "Russian" without pointing out they were only such as subjects of the Russian Empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:09, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on the requested move for Pripyat

I have suggested the the page for Prypiat (in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone) be moved to Pripyat.

Though normally I would prefer place-names use Ukrainian spellings and transliteration, for Pripyat I think that WP:COMMONNAME supercedes in this particular case. The discussion is here:

Talk:Prypiat#RFM to Pripyat (with better justification & references) --Cooper⁴²(Talk)(Contr) 19:49, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Russian-Ukrainian wars

Russian-Ukrainian wars has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 02:26, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Translation needed

Hello,

Galyna Zubchenko, an article on a contemporary Ukrainian painter, could benefit from a good translation. Thanks! --CocoLacoste talk 02:09, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Looking for a picture for Independence Day of Ukraine

This 2S19 Msta self-propelled howitzer

Can you please contribute a nice picture to picture for Independence Day of Ukraine please? I can not find a good one at Commons. Although I myself have made pictures on a few (Ukrainian) Independence Day's; the turned out to be so rotten I wanted to run them over with a 2S19 Msta self-propelled howitzer...

By the way; since there have been no military parades in Kyiv since 2008, placing a picture of the 2008 Independence Day military parade in Kyiv in Independence Day of Ukraine makes no sense to me....
— Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 01:26, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. Some bird-eye photo of spectating crowd? I'll keep mauling over your question further. Thank you for bringing this up, and happy edits. Ukrained2012 (talk) 11:40, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Translation of the term Raion

Please see Talk:Raions of Ukraine#Translation Aleksandr Krymsky (talk) 23:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Let's close this issue there. Thank you for notice. Ukrained2012 (talk) 11:34, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Haid1 für Wiki.jpg

file:Haid1 für Wiki.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:12, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Dikt8e für Wiki.jpg

File:Dikt8e für Wiki.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 09:20, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

What's the English name for this Cossack hetman?

pl:Iwan Petrażycki-Kulaha/uk:Іван Петражицький-Кулага? I was thinking about maybe translating the pl article, but I would prefer to do so under a proper name. Also, why is he not mentioned at Hetmans of Ukrainian Cossacks nor at List of Ukrainian rulers? Same problem with pl:Timofiej Orendarenko/uk:Орендаренко Тиміш Михайлович. It would be great is somebody would at least clean up the list of early Cossack hetmans, adding proper names. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:30, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Answer to #1 looks to be "Ivan VI Petrizhitsky-Kulaga". VєсrumЬа ►TALK 01:35, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Not sure where you got the VI from; I'll stub the Ivan Petrizhitsky-Kulaga. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:57, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Did Ukraine leave the Interstate Aviation Committee?

The website of the Interstate Aviation Committee still says Ukraine is a member, even though an editor said in a edit that Ukraine left. Because of WP:V Wikipedia still has to say Ukraine is a part of the IAC unless one can find a source explicitly saying that Ukraine left the IAC. Does anyone have knowledge of such sources?

Please see the relevant discussion at Talk:Interstate_Aviation_Committee#Being_correct

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 00:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Article is already reworded to reflect the IAC's ambiguous status in Ukraine. However, a source proving a cease of relations between Ukraine and the committee would be appreciated. Wishes, Ukrained2012 (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Ukr Army 1991.jpg

file:Ukr Army 1991.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 00:58, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Ukraine Elections2004 Voter Turnout.png

File:Ukraine Elections2004 Voter Turnout.png has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 00:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

The History cat becomes congested

Ladies and gentlemen, 59 subcats and 343 pages is really the point when we should add more bulk period subcats and start recatting everything. Possibly by Wiki automation in which I'm no expert for now. Please remember how many more Ukraine-related history pages we are going to get. I could be bold with this If I was an expert in scientific periodization. Thanks, Ukrained2012 (talk) 02:17, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

My first humble attempt: Category:Early modern history of Ukraine. Please populate at least by hands. Wishes, Ukrained2012 (talk) 04:14, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

We already have the "History of Ukraine" timeline, can we try and make categories that match those splits please for consistency. Chaosdruid (talk) 14:54, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

We certainly could. I have no opinion on the scholar accuracy of that timeline. I'm going to take my time for studying it while refraining from further sub-recatting. Interconsistency between timiline and category is a good idea. Thanks, Ukrained2012 (talk) 06:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Smile-flag Ukraine Smiley

File:Smile-flag Ukraine.gifA cute "Smile-flag Ukraine Smiley" has been created a few weeks ago. Feel free to use it! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:09, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Lol :¬) Chaosdruid (talk) 14:48, 15 May 2013 (UTC) File:Smile-flag Ukraine.gif

LOL it is. Ukrained2012 (talk) 06:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Archaeogenetics of the Cucuteni–Trypillian culture#Recent edits and WP:BRD

Hi all

A discussion has started due to recent edits that have been challenged.

Would any interested parties please join the discussion.

Thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 14:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Location of Cossack Hetmanate.png

File:Location of Cossack Hetmanate.png has been nominated for deletion; whille actually it just needs some changes... I am afraid I don't have the right equipment to change the map.... Some help wanted! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:27, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I replied there, probably doable but difficult. Btw the map you uploaded seems to be hopeless, in addition to labeling peoples by diminutive names it also has a number of issues, for example a city of "Kodak", which means it is not to be trusted at all.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Following the discussion on Commons, I remove the objection about Kodak (but not about derogatory names). Btw it is unfortunately that a spa showed up in the discussion, apparently with the only purpose of personally attacking me.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Replied there, thanks for raising the issue. Ukrained2012 (talk) 07:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Ukrainian nationalism in present day Ukraine

I tried to update (Wiki article) Ukrainian nationalism with Ukrainian nationalism in present day Ukraine; unfortunately I did not get further then political events... So feel free to update (Wiki article) Ukrainian nationalism with non-political things!

With the rise of All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" I have the feeling that some might blow out of proportion the impact of nationalism in present day Ukraine... For example this anti-fascist procession in Kyiv (May 18, 2013) seems redundant because before 2009 the role of radical nationalistic parties (in Ukrainian politics) was extremely marginal... But foreigners who saw that procession might get the idea radical nationalistic parties (some people seem to refuse to see the difference between "fascist" and "radical nationalism") have been a big part of Ukrainian everyday life/politics since always. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

In short: I need help to establish how nationalism plays out in present day Ukraine is in non-political life. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You don't pick easy jobs here, do you) For starters, we would need unambiguous and non-contested definitions. Than, I suggest digging some serious non-partisan Ukrainian articles in places such as "День", "Український тиждень", "Історична правда". Wishes, Ukrained2012 (talk) 16:33, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Help needed

Does anyone have time to help in taking WP:Naming conventions (Cyrillic) from current draft to RfC for adoption as a guideline? In ictu oculi (talk) 06:30, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Charles Radoff

• image:Radoff 3.jpg
• image:Radoff 2.jpg

have been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 03:02, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Anatoly Wasserman

Добрий вечір!

I removed most of the discussion from Anatoly Wasserman, which seemed to lack two reliable sources for contentious and possibly libelous or slanderous propositions, per WP:BLP.

Please review my edits and the article. Please contact Wikipedia's oversight service to remove the history of improper statements, if such statements appear in the article history.

Дякую! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:25, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

GAR

Ukraine, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 02:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Wiska w children.jpg

image:Wiska w children.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:32, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and I wonder why( Would someone please help me through a possible case of copyright fundamentalism?

{{Countries bordering the Black Sea}}

Template:Countries bordering the Black Sea (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 10:53, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Ukrainian example missing from Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Cyrillic)

I wonder if someone could please provide a suitable example of a notable/stable article lead for WP:UKRAINIANNAMES. The Kazakh example is Nursultan Nazarbayev, the Russian example Vladimir Putin, the Serbian example Ivo Andrić. Thanks in advance. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh well, I added Taras Shevchenko In ictu oculi (talk) 00:48, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, good choice. Ukrained2012 (talk) 09:56, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

180px-Ivan-Kozhedub2.jpg

image:180px-Ivan-Kozhedub2.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 06:17, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Recipients of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise, 5th class

category:Recipients of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise, 5th class has bee nnominated for deletion -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 08:22, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Ukrainian Jews

I think this category should be limited to those who lived in the Ukrain after it became an indepdent country. Alternatively we could limit it to people who lived in Ukrain from the formation of the Ukrainian SSR, but realiztically that is problematic with populations in the USSR being fairly fluid. It definantely seems odd to label as "Ukrainian" people who lived in the late 19th-century.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:03, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

If we limit Ukrainian people to people who lived in Ukraine after the formation of the Ukrainian SSR, then this should be applied to all people, not just Jews. You cannot have one rule for Jews and another for everyone else. The same rule should apply to all. Your idea seems bizarre, given the importance of 19th Century figures such as Taras Shevchenko in modern Ukrainian nationalism.--Toddy1 (talk) 23:21, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Given the historical region of ethnic settlement and the Ukrainian SSR not necessarily being particularly voluntary, this seems and odd restriction. Jewish heritage in Eastern Europe goes back centuries. There was no more mobility of population than anywhere else prior to the 20th century. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 01:55, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

See also recent reordering discussion at Talk:Kiev. Wishes, Ukrained2012 (talk) 12:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Alexandr Guristyuk images

• image:Sviato kartopli.jpg
• Image:AvtoportretG.jpg
• file:Dvanadciat'.jpg

have been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 11:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Kamyanets-Podilsky Ivan Ohienko National University

This article has not been edited for a long time, and will soon be deleted as a stale draft. Is it worth saving? Does anyone who can read the references want to work on it? —Anne Delong (talk) 03:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Saved. Thank you very much, Ukrained2012 (talk) 21:51, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Great! —Anne Delong (talk) 13:01, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

"Infobox picture" at (Wiki-article) Ukrainians

Some changes have been made recently to the "pictures in the infobox" at (Wiki-article) Ukrainians that could be viewed as controversial and going against (past?) consensus. Feel free to express our views on Talk:Ukrainians#Infobox_picture.

PS I realise that my edits today on the page can be seen as controversial too File:Smile-flag Ukraine.gif — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:31, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

AfC submission

Care to look at this submission? Thanks! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 12:07, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

In particular: Do its references back up what it says (no "original research") and is it written from scratch rather than a direct translation of copyrighted text? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:22, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Anyone, please. The submission is held up only because we don't have a reviewer who can check the sources. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

It actually looks notable, but the submission seems to have been declined. Does it still make sense to check the sources? I have zero AfD experience (and not too keen to get any at this point).--Ymblanter (talk) 21:17, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Vasyl Shkliar

Dear Ukraine experts: This article has been waiting for a long time at Afc for a review. Can any one help? —Anne Delong (talk) 16:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Please. Someone declined it but gave no indication that they actually checked the sources, so the decline might be incorrect. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:58, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

1-4 are RS with the interviews; 10 is a RS which confirms the prize. Overall notable, though some copyediting will not harm the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I have added your information about the reliable sources to the article . —Anne Delong (talk) 23:13, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The article is now in mainspace at Vasyl Shkliar, please feel free to improve it. To start with the name should be given in cyrilic text in the lead and also in the persondata template. I have seen some sources romanize the surname as "Shklyar" so that might need to change. Thanks for your assistance. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:23, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I copyedit it a bit. It seems to be a Google translation of the Ukrainian Wikipedia article.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

What a great example of cooperation! Only 2027 more submissions to go.... —Anne Delong (talk) 15:14, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

FA review Rus' Khaganate

Hi all

I have started stage one of an FA review on the article as it is in a poor state.

Any comments and help would be great. Chaosdruid (talk) 22:01, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

English exonyms for place names

English_exonyms#Ukraine. Can someone check this please. See also article Talk. Many thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

FAR Rus' Khaganate

I have initiated an FA review for the article, the review page is open for discussions on how to improve the article to bring it back to it's FA status, or for it to be reclassified. Chaosdruid (talk) 01:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Warning! IP-editors making strange changes to Euromaidan-related articles like Orange Revolution

I have noticed that IP-editors starting to make strange changes (in what appears to be a POV-pushing to me) to Euromaidan-related articles like Orange Revolution. See here were I corrected a piece in the Gaurdian that was wrongly interperted by an IP who then wrote something on the page talkpage that indicated that he is not neutral when it came to the subject of his edit. Something similar happened to the Orange Revolution wiki page a few days ago; again followed by the IP writing something on the page talkpage that indicated that he is not neutral when it came to the subject of his edit. I suspect that because so many people edit the Wiki-page Euromaidan the people who want to vandalise/write POV-pushing things there suspect that at Euromaidan there edits will soon be removed... but that on other pages of events that look like Euromaidan they will still have a change. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:22, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

How do I nominate an article?

I would like to nominate the article triune Russian people for assessment, either as GA or A or B or however the system works, and get some comments for improvement. How do I go about this? thanks --Львівське (говорити) 22:44, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Pykulovychi

Dear Ukraine experts: This old abandoned Afc submission will soon be deleted as a stale draft. Someone has put a lot of work into it, though. Would someone who speaks the language like to see if they can find some sources to verify the information? —Anne Delong (talk) 04:19, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

I will take care of it.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:17, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Great! If you can't find anything, you can always just let it go. Now, only 17,000 more submissions left to check... —Anne Delong (talk) 15:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

I already found everything I wanted.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:15, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm glad you were successful. —Anne Delong (talk) 17:49, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

SpongeBob in Ukraine

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:SpongeBob SquarePants#Was about to be banned for being gay?. JSH-alive/^{talk/cont/mail} 16:17, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Help with question at the Reference Desk?

Would someone from this WikiProject please help with this question at the Reference Desk? Thank you, Dismas|^(talk) 19:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

February 2014 Euromaidan riots

Is this article really still "class=Start" and "importance=Low"? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:01, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Mini Constitution of Ukraine

This article appears to be almost entirely unsourced: there is a long list of links, but many of them do not work. This one: http://www.golos.com.ua/Article.aspx?id=229406 does appear to be a page in Ukrainian about the subject, and it might well be a real newspaper, but I cannot tell. In short, it is not clear that notability has been shown, the sources are doubtful, and the whole page looks rather like advertising. Should I propose it for deletion, or is it clearly significant and worthwhile? Imaginatorium (talk) 14:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Images to redesign - all current maps of Ukraine

File:Outline of Ukraine.svg, File:Europe-Ukraine.svg, all images from commons:Category:Bilateral maps of Ukraine and many from commons:Category:Maps of Ukraine. I'll let one of regular members here develop a full list. Sigh. Would be nice if we could charge Russian government with hiring a mapmaker or two... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:32, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

No one needs to redesign anything. Ukraine's borders have not changed according to international law. However, I'm sure there will be some mapmaker vandals that will move ahead with the Crimean annexation.. DDima 06:49, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

This is how Georgia is shown in the article

I do not remember what was done for Georgia in 2008 (I believe most maps show Abkhazia and South Osetia differently than the rest of the country), but the same should be done for Ukraine. This would mean that Ukraine does not control Crimea, but everybody still recognizes the international borders. It is not a political statement, it is the statement of a fact.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:37, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

@"Ukraine's borders have not changed according to international law." - US based Wikipedia and the USA don't care about international law. See Kosovo. Tibet2014 (talk) 21:45, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Допоможіть з перекладом новин про Україну

Доброго дня. В цей час проти моєї батьківщини ведеться інформаційна війна і відбувається багато фальсифікацій з метою дистабілізувати ситуацію і очорнити Україну в очах світової громадськості. Зокрема телеканал RT (TV network) випустив сюжет про антисемітизм в Україні Киев Евреи бегут 15 03 14 який є цілковитою брехнею. Спростування тут: http://www.stopfake.org/fake-evrei-ubegayut-iz-kieva-iz-za-antisemitizma-novoj-vlasti/ та тут http://tsn.ua/video/video-novini/rosiya-posilila-brehnyu-u-dezinformaciyi-naselennya.html, http://evreiskiy.kiev.ua/ravvin-simferopolja-mikhail-kapustin-12870.html, http://focus.ua/society/300220/. На превеликий жаль моєї англійської бракне, аби внести правки в статтю RT (TV network) про фальсифікації. Буду вам дуже вдячний за допомогу. --Habibul (talk) 01:44, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

I am a Ukrainian

Just created - I am a Ukrainian the viral video. help me make it a did you know article! Zeddocument (talk) 10:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Nice. I'll try to expand it into a DYK. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:21, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I am done expanding, but I wonder if Ukrainian sources could be used to add anything interesting that's missing from the English ones? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:33, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

2013–14 Ukrainian crisis

As we all know, there is a huge crisis in Ukraine that began in November 2013 and continues today, we several articles on it (Euromaidan, 2014 Ukrainian revolution, 2014 Crimean crisis, 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine, 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, ect.), but there is no main article, many have proposed the creation of such an article, but it's never happened, why don't start working on it. Charles Essie (talk) 17:41, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Alexander Sparinsky

Dear Ukraine experts: Is this old Afc submission about a notable composer? Should it be kept and improved instead of being deleted as a stale draft? —Anne Delong (talk) 22:37, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Odessa clashes and fire

At present, we have no images for 2 May 2014 Odessa clashes, which seems bad given how visceral the scene was. I was wondering if anyone here is from Odessa, and might have some images we could use? I haven't been able to find any free images, at yet. RGloucester — ☎ 15:22, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2014

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride 2014, a campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of June, culminating with a multinational edit-a-thon on June 21. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can participate remotely. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Wikipedia's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles within Category:LGBT in Europe may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related photo challenge. You are encouraged to share the results of your work here. Happy editing! --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:43, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Ukraine At Wikimania 2014

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 17:03, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Merger discussion

It has been proposed to merge the Ukrainian Air Force Ilyushin Il-76 shoot-down article into the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine article. You are welcome to comment at Talk:Ukrainian Air Force Ilyushin Il-76 shoot-down#Proposed merge with 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine. Mjroots (talk) 10:20, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Yarych Confectionery , ТОВ «Кондитерська фабрика «Ярич»

Another editor has created an article on a biscuit and cracker factory in Ukraine, Yarych Confectionery, Ukrainian: ТОВ «Кондитерська фабрика «Ярич»). The article has no references. I would appreciate it if other editors could look at the article and add references. Please include the name of the company's owner if you can find this information. If the company is notable, you might want to create an article for it in the Ukrainian Wikipedia as well. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 15:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Donets Basin

There is a move request at Talk:Donets Basin (Donbas) that could use the comments of those familiar with the geography of Ukraine. RGloucester — ☎ 03:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Bublyk Semen Pavlovych

Hallo all! please pay attantion to this article, I think it needs valuable corrections. I tried to correct, but stopped because of lack of my historical knowledges. --Yuriy Kvach (talk) 06:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

And also one more article of the same authorship: Bublyk Kuzma Pavlovych --Yuriy Kvach (talk) 07:17, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

RfC - Galicia (Eastern Europe) title

I have opened a Request for Comments here, regarding the disputed title of the article. There is no consensus regarding it's title and the lead section of the article remains in conflict with the title.

Any comments are welcome. --hmich176 00:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Languages in censuses and Race and ethnicity in censuses

Pleas add information about this country to this articles. --Kaiyr (talk) 17:08, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

English name of the Transport Building in Kiev

How would you state the name of this building in English? File:Ukraine's_Ministry_of_Transport.jpg. Are there sources in English? Is it possible to write an English article on it? There are Ukranian and Russian articles about it: uk:Будинок Міністерства інфраструктури України and ru:Здание Министерства инфраструктуры Украины WhisperToMe (talk) 12:57, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

WhisperToMe, literally, it is a building of the Ministry of Infrastructure of Ukraine. In Soviet Union that particular building was known as the Aeroflot IT-center. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 05:48, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 17:46, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

AfD

WHat's your opinion on 500th Anniversary of the Zaporozhian Cossacks? It's up for deletion. CesareAngelotti (talk) 18:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

City/town

One of my current activities is to add the population data (based on the 2013 population estimate) to the articles on Ukrainian raions and urban localities. When I started doing this, I realized that these articles are in complete chaos. I started to organize them by creating the pages on the administrative division like this one and then doing some cleanup of individual pages and eventually adding the population (see Murovani Kurylivtsi Raion as one of the best examples). One of the problems I discovered is a complete inconsistency of names; urban localities can be called city, town, urban-type settlement, townlet, and a number of other variations I encountered as well.

We had this problem earlier with regard to Russian urban localities (Russia has the same system of administrative division as Ukraine but in addition it has municipal divisions with is not relevant for my message). We solved it in the following way. Посёлок городского типа (смт) is always an urban-type settlement and never a town. It is explained in the article, and additionally we have an article on the types of localities in Russia, where this is explained as well. For город (мiсто) we could use both city and town, and we adopted the convention that if the population is above 100,000, it is city, and if it is below 100,000, it is town. I personally would have difficulties calling a locality with the population of 3,000 a city, and this means that the line should be drawn somewhere. 100,000 seems to be a reasonable number to draw this line.

Today, I was approached by DDima who suggested that we call all мiсто's cities, for homogeneity. I presented him my arguments, that it is more important to have the same convention as Russia uses (and I also used it for Kazakhstan since I seem to be the only user interested in the articles on Kazakhstani cities/towns), so that it would be much easier to readers who are not so well familiar with the former USSR. He did not object, but suggested that I discuss the convention here. I formally propose to use this convention for Ukrainian cities/towns/urban-type settlements.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:37, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree that some sort of consensus should be established. It IS somewhat strange calling a locality with a population of 3,000 a "city," especially since there are some urban-type settlements with populations much higher than that. However, since Ukraine is a much smaller country compared to Russia, I think that we should lower the threshold limit for calling it a city vs. a town to anywhere from 50,000 to 75,000. I just feel that we would exclude a lot of important cities by calling them "towns" rather than "cities" if the limit was 100,000.

If this is to be done then we would need to write an entire article on the types of populated settlements in Ukraine much like the respective one for Russian settlements since it might become confusing to some readers if there is a city/town difference for Ukrainian populated settlements in the English language, and no such difference in Ukrainian or Russian. I've attempted it in the past, but never had anything meaningful written. § DDima 19:48, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I would still prefer 100,000 (this still leaves 50+ cities, which is a lot), but I can certainly live with 50,000 or 75,000 if there is consensus for any of these numbers.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:00, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi. DDima asked me to chime in, although I haven’t been actively editing lately. Might be useful to get some input from WP:WikiProject Cities.

I think it is good to be consistent. (Personally, I would probably just use a generic term, like “settlement.”) I don’t see why a country with a smaller population should have a larger population threshold between towns and cities – why? Most of these were part of a single still-bigger country until 1991. Why was 100,000 chosen for Russia, and is there an archived discussion about that? Are there countries in other parts of the world where Wikipedia has had to differentiate towns and cities? Is there any international standard, say according to the UN, or city planners’ associations? Or any authoritative English-language sources on the subject?

Sorry to bring more questions than answers. —Michael Z. 2014-08-13 21:27 z

Michael, the consensus for Russia is here. There must have been a discussion, but I am afraid it will be a bit difficult to me to find it. Anyway, this is an arbitrary number, any other number could have been chosen instead. I am not aware of any international standards, and I am afraid they do not exist. We are in fact talking about language norms - how to properly translate a locality which has been granted a town/city rights.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:43, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Ymblanter, why dont you read the following article, administrative division of Ukraine? Also, please, take a look at uk:Містечко and Mistechko at Lingvo. According to the laws of Ukraine, a city (місто) in Ukraine is a locality of at least 10,000 people (not 100,000), however the locality population size could be irrelevant in many instances. Also, note that in Ukraine cities and urban-type settlements are both considered to be urban localities, while village and other settlements are considered to be rural localities. According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary, town is larger than village, while smaller than city. If your Ukrainian allows, I also invite you to familiarize yourself with works of Ukrainian historian Oleksandr Androshchuk such as "Urban settlements in a system of territorial organization of the UkrSSR in 1940-60s". Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 05:07, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

As a comment, the village of Skokie in Illinois has population of over 60,000. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 05:53, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, none of your arguments address my points. We are talking about the translation, not of the original Ukrainian terms which are in the law. The patronizing tone I unfortunately find unacceptable. You could have easily checked for example that I have edited this article.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:40, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Aleksandr Grigoryev raises an interesting fact that according to Ukrainian law a place with 10,000 people is a city. Maybe we can start using (per example): Zhdanivka (Ukrainian: Жданівка, Russian: Ждановка) is (according to Ukrainian law) a city in the Donetsk Oblast (province) of Ukraine..... and then let the reader make up for himself if she\he thinks the place is really a city, town, urban-type settlement etc. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 13:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Yulia Romero, small correction. In Ukrainian law a locality is not defined based only on its population. If most of its population is employed in a field of agriculture (farming, gardening, etc) and it has a population of 50,000, it would still be considered a village. However, I do not see how it is possible due to population density which would require to solve many issues such as roads, road traffic, hospitals, food distribution, and many others. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 13:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

No, according to the Ukrainian law, a city (whatever, a мiсто) is a locality which was granted a city status (town rights) according to the decision of the authorities (the government I believe but I am not sure what authority it is). The point is that no locality with the population below 10K will be granted the status.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:40, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Ymblanter, how will you explain a city status for such cities as Uhniv, Belz, Berestechko? A city of Uhniv has a population of just over 1,000(!). Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Unlike Uhniv, Belz and Berestechko have a great historical value and were cities long before the Soviet invasion of Ukraine. The city of Belz was a capital of the Kingdom of Rus before the capital was transferred to Lviv. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:12, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure why should I explain it. I have no relation to the Ukrainian government and I have no authority to grant town rights. I suspect that they already had town rights before the 10K population law was adopted.--Ymblanter (talk) 14:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Ymblanter, did not you say, "The point is that no locality with the population below 10K will be granted the status."? Therefore, I requested an explanation for such a claim. Please, understand me correctly, you are right about the population criterion for granting the city status, however, I am trying to explain that there are exceptions to the rule and the status is not granted purely on size of a locality. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:22, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree, and this is perfectly fine with me.--Ymblanter (talk) 14:29, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

To make things less or more complicated... Ukr. Pres. Petro Poroshenko in his decentralization of power plans proposed changing the labelling of administrative divisions. Lets hope this gets ride of this strange "places were everybody is working in the agriculture sector are always villages". — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:27, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

On the other hand, we could omit the use of town and stick to urban-type settlement (UTS) in order to avoid any further ambiguity. The use of town for the UTS was adopted purely out of a brevity. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 18:47, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Disability in Ukraine

I created the article Disability in Ukraine today in order to "deepen" the subjects about Ukraine on Wikipedia. Unfortunately I have not so much time and had great problems finding (English) sources on Google.... Any help on the article is thus very welcome! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:28, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Starobesheve

Would anyone with Ukrainian-language (or Russian-language) knowledge care to transfer either the Ukrainian (or Russian) article on Starobesheve to the English Wikipedia? It is an important town with regard to the War in Donbass, so it is rather annoying not to have an article on it. RGloucester — ☎ 03:55, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

None of these looks suitable for translation: the Russian article is substadard and 100 years outdated, and the Ukrainian one has a strong POV, for example, it mentions Russian-Ukrainian war. I started the article and I hope to be able to complete it by the end of the weekend (I am pretty busy today and tomorrow).--Ymblanter (talk) 07:07, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your work. RGloucester — ☎ 15:14, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Number of seats won during election or number of seats of the current faction in Infobox; or both?

I started here a discussion about the Infoboxes of political parties in Ukraine and what numbers they should have (number of seats won during election or number of seats of the current faction in Infobox; or both?). I hope many will join this discussion. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:03, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Rename/move needed f all pages called "pro-Russian unrest"

Hello, it is clear muvh of this is nt merly "po" Ruddian it s Rusian.orhesrtef. Current namingis POV as ittacitly endrsrs Putin propaganda line that is purely an internal Ukrsinin unrest. It is not. Thought? PetesOntheMerits (talk) 22:40, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Article for improvement of the week

Hi Guys, Maybe it's just me, but this project seems to have been pretty lifeless for the past months (or even years). For this reason, I would like to propose a collaborative project that all members can work on together called the Article for improvement of the week, or the Ukrainian Article for improvement, or... you get the point. The idea is based off of WP:TAFI, except it will be specific to this WikiProject.

So here are the rules:

1. Everyone who wants an article expanded nominates it to a specific page
2. Articles that get more than a certain number of votes go into the waiting list of articles for improvement
3. Everyone who collaborates must add at least one sentence to the article and add an incline citation. Copyediting is also encouraged.

Any discussion, suggestions, and corrections are encouraged. --BoguSlav 01:17, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Please leave your signature below if you support this initiative:

1. --BoguSlav 01:24, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

"Ukrainian White Steppe" & "Ukrainian Spotted Steppe"

FYI, the usage of "Ukrainian White Steppe" and "Ukrainian Spotted Steppe" is up for discussion, see Talk:Asturian Mountain -- 65.94.171.225 (talk) 06:16, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention

This is a notice about Category:Ukraine articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. Iceblock (talk) 20:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Translation request

@Ymblanter: This article on the Russia Wikipedia has a wealth of good information about Donbas/Donbass. It would be nice if someone could work on translating that information and putting it into our article on the subject, as right now it is quite sparse. This is important, given the recent prominence of events in the region. I've pinged Ymblanter because he helped with a similiar request regarding Starobesheve. RGloucester — ☎ 16:26, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

I usually do not translate things, especially from the Russian Wikiedia, but I can have a look at the article and help expanding it.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your assistance. RGloucester — ☎ 16:42, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Changed my mind, sorry. Every time I say smth about Ukraine people seem to get upset, and I am not here to constantly get complaints and negative feedback. I hope somebody else would find time to do it.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:42, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Ahatanhel Krymsky

A user is edit-warring in this article changing Kiev to Kyiv and reverting my edits. At the talk page they mentioned that they believe consensus is per article and if consensus has been achieved at Kiev this has no consequences for other articles. Since I am totally disappointed with ANI and try to spend there as little time as possible, I would appreciate if someone could help to resolve the issue. Note that the user previously introduced copyright violations to the article. Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:37, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, if nobody cares, why should I care?--Ymblanter (talk) 07:12, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Translation request (Ukrainian language)

Hello board, please translate this text into Ukrainian:

• "Please do not contribute text in Ukrainian to English Wikipedia. Your contributions are more than welcome at the Ukrainian Wikipedia."

It will appear in the list at Template:Not English.- – Gilliam (talk) 14:41, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Request for input

This may be of interest to members of WP Ukraine. There is a dispute on the article about the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development on what title the section of the article which is about the bank's 2014 suspension of new projects in Russia, in the light of the ongoing conflict. I would prefer to use the title "2014 suspension of new projects in Russia" but I've noticed this has been reverted twice now to "2014 Sanctions Tool against Russia". I'm not going to press my idea further, but more input from the community would be welcome as to which headline is the most NPOV and descriptive, I think. Yakikaki (talk) 20:04, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Peer review: Bolokhoveni

The article is about a medieval ethnic group dwelling in present-day Ukraine or Moldova. All comments here would be appreciated. Borsoka (talk) 05:52, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Translation request

Hello. I have a translation request for any Ukrainian speakers. While writing Taras Shevchenko Memorial (Washington, D.C.) I found the translation for one of the Ukrainian inscriptions (mentioned here), but there is another one I can't translate. You can see the inscription here. I know it's rather hard to read, but a portion of the text may help me find the full inscription on the interwebs. Thank you. APK whisper in my ear 08:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

One of the two is translated to English directly on the monument. Another one is a quotation of the 1857 piece "ЮРОДИВИЙ", which is

Коли ти видохнеш? Коли

Ми діждемося Вашингтона

З новим і праведним законом?

А діждемось-таки колись.

I will check now whether there is an English translation available.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:45, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

The English translation of the name is "The Holy Fool". --Ymblanter (talk) 09:50, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Which one is translated to English directly on the monument? Just to be clear, you're saying "When will Ukraine / have its Washington / with fair and just laws? / Someday we will!" is from "The Holy Fool" and is the Ukrainian text above? APK whisper in my ear 18:40, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I can attempt a translation.

Коли ти видохнеш? / When will you be able to breathe a sigh of relief?

Коли Ми діждемося Вашингтона / When we finally get our own Washington

(This is a surprise twist. There's a pause after the word "when" and the phrase "we finally get our own Washington" is a surprise answer to "when" and the answer is designed to be said with a sigh)

З новим і праведним законом? / With new and just laws.

А діждемось-таки колись. / But we will wait for it - until it happens. (because it will happen one day)

This Ukrainian language poem is nuanced and has innuendos not apparent in the English translation. The English language is more direct, with very little opportunity to misunderstand. This poem is written in a way that hints at political dissidence, reminiscent of times when poems were written against the government, without actually saying anything directly that would get the poet in trouble with the authorities. USchick (talk) 19:08, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you both for your assistance. APK whisper in my ear 19:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Translation help

Someone has helped me find articles that are relevant to my above post, but the person was unable to help with translation. Would someone here be willing to give me a hand? These are the articles: [12][13][14][15] I don't need a full translation; just an overview of what is said. Mainly, I'm curious whether any criticism of SpongeBob can be attributed to the government Commission itself, or if all of the criticism for the show stemmed from the Family Under the Protection of the Holy Virgin. --Jpcase (talk) 17:28, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The Commission was asked to investigate the allegation that a list of shows is "harmful to children" and harmful to "family values" of Ukraine. The commission put together various panels of experts and did a number of investigations where children watched the shows and their behavior was monitored. The commission also researched how children in other countries react to these shows and how other countries deal with this issue, since these shows are everywhere and can't be controlled. The commission determined that these shows are unacceptable for children and pose a threat to the wellbeing of Ukraine. The commission urges the citizens of Ukraine to contact the President of Ukraine and get these shows blocked or at least limited in some way. Apparently the commission is unable to do anything other than make a recommendation. I see nothing about the Holy Virgin in any of the articles. Sponge Bob is mentioned by name, and it's a very long list. My personal opinion, is that Ukraine is not a country that would make this decision based on any religious reasons. "Family values" in Ukraine is a Soviet concept and has nothing to do with religion. USchick (talk) 18:56, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Taras Shevchenko Memorial

This is currently a GA nominee (just waiting for a reviewer). If anyone would like to read over it and check for errors/odd wording/MoS issues before the nomination process begins, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. APK whisper in my ear 19:55, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk:2 May 2014 Odessa clashes#Requested move 30 December 2014

There is an ongoing move request. --George Ho (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Seeking an article from the Ukrainian newspaper Ukraínskaya Pravda

I'm working on the article SpongeBob SquarePants and am trying to better understand an issue about the show that arose in Ukraine. In 2012, a group called Family Under the Protection of the Holy Virgin (which has been described by the Wall Street Journal as a "fringe Catholic website") sought to have SpongeBob (along with several other shows) banned from television in Ukraine. A government organization, called the Ukrainian National Expert Commission for Protecting Public Morality, reviewed the situation. From there, the details get really sketchy. Different English-language sources provide conflicting information, perhaps due to poor translation. I'm aware that at least some of these sources based their information on an article that was written for the Ukrainian newspaper Ukraínskaya Pravda (here is a link to the newspaper's website [16]). Since I can't read Ukrainian, I'm pretty helpless in trying to find this article. Is anyone able to do a search for articles about SpongeBob that have been written for this newspaper? If you're also able to explain what the article says, that would be fantastic, but even just finding the article would be a huge help. --Jpcase (talk) 03:38, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

P.S. Here is a link to the government Commission's website [17] It might have helpful information as well. --Jpcase (talk) 16:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

• See here: [18] with broken link [19]. 37.53.192.82 (talk) 14:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

You dont need to know Ukrainian, the article is in Russian, first of all. Secondly, google translate provides pretty accurate interpretation. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:42, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Sievierodonetsk#Requested move 4 February 2015

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Sievierodonetsk#Requested move 4 February 2015. Thanks. RGloucester — ☎ 17:57, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Help with a user/article?

There are a few pages up for deletion by Prunelle025. (Lviv through the ages, Ghost ancient city) The pages have a lot of issues with them like promotion, but the biggest problem seems to be that there is a huge language barrier. Since they've made a lot of Lviv related pages I'm inclined to believe that they are someone in Ukraine, so they'd speak one of the languages used there. (My guess is Ukranian since it's the most common language.) Can one of you that is fluent talk to them on their user page and also help look for sources? I don't think that the content is notable offhand, but I'd like to know for sure. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:52, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Lugansk People's Republic#RfC: Should we use "Luhansk" or "Lugansk"?

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Lugansk People's Republic#RfC: Should we use "Luhansk" or "Lugansk"?. Thanks. RGloucester — ☎ 05:46, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Districts (raions) of Donetsk city

What's the convention for naming districts of cities in Ukraine? If one takes a look at the category Category:Raions of Donetsk, one sees "Kiev Raion" or "Kirov Raion", and the like. This strikes me as odd. All sources I've seen refer to these as Kyivsky district, Kirovsky district, &c. I especially think it is odd to use "Kiev", given that this particular district has no common name, meaning that the standard Ukrainian transliteration should apply. How exactly is this laid out? RGloucester — ☎ 04:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Does no one have any ideas about this? It is still confusing for me. As a rule, I prefer translations when appropriate, i.e. "district" over "raion", and the like. However, as I know most fellows here are opposed to that, I won't try and push for that again. However, I think that maybe an exception should be made for raions of cities, as opposed to usual raions. It is somewhat confusing to refer these raions of cities as "raions", and it is not at all common in English. Perhaps raions of cities should be called "so and so" district? That's much better than "Kiev Raion, Donetsk", which doesn't appear to be common anywhere. RGloucester — ☎ 22:31, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

This project used to name district articles (not just city districts, but regular districts as well) using the transliterations of their Ukrainian spellings, but that changed at some point (I'm not sure there ever was a discussion, but I didn't pay attention that close, so I could have missed it). Now all the districts are named either after their administrative centers (resulting sometimes in different titles for the articles about the districts whose names in Ukrainian are identical) or, as is the case with the city districts, the proper part is simply translated (resulting in such odd constructs as "Factory Raion"). Not sure what's up with that. As you noted, hardly any Ukrainian districts (raions) would have a well-established common name in English, meaning that transliterating the original name is the only sensible thing to do in the vast majority (if not in all) of cases. As for the use of "raion" instead of "district", both are English words (albeit the former is a somewhat obscure loanword), so either is acceptable, as long as the usage is consistent.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 29, 2015; 13:11 (UTC)

Well, would anyone be up for reverting to the "Ukrainian transliteration" system? The absurdity of "Factory Raion" makes it clear that this simply isn't how these districts are referred to in English. I'm all for translation, when it makes sense, but this is instance where it simply does not. If the translations are not commonly used in sources, they should be thrown out. I'd recommend the following: use Ukrainian transliterations + district for raions of cities. Leave regular raions alone. That will make the distinction clearer, in English, and aligns more with how sources describe these entities. RGloucester — ☎ 14:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@DDima: As you created many of the district articles, what do you think about this matter? RGloucester — ☎ 19:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@RGloucester and Ezhiki: The original goal of having the naming convention of "administrative center" + "raion" was to remove the long "skyi" endings on district articles, making it easier for English speakers to understand what a "raion" is in its relationship to their administrative centers. Since we already had articles like Donetsk Oblast instead of DonetskA Oblast, then the same format was to be applied to raions. (If I'm not mistaken, it was proposed by MapLover in 2008, who himself is no longer participating on Wikipedia).

This system works great for the general Ukrainian raions since each one of them has an administrative center on which we can base the name. However, city raions do not give us such a luxury, so a hybrid mix was created by Aleksandr Grigoryev. I was never one in favor of naming articles such as Factory Raion as I find it quite odd myself. I believe his reasoning was in favor of Wikipedia:Use English. I myself prefer the Ukrainian variant of Zavodskyi Raion (but that isn't consistent with the standard of not having the -skyi endings—then again, that can be dropped for city raions as proposed by you above).

I agree that if outside readers are looking up about yet another separatist attack on Donetsk's "Zavodskyi Raion," then they might be somewhat bewildered by this hybrid mix. As long as the naming convention is all standardized, uniform, and consistent—it doesn't make much of a difference for me. § DDima 20:31, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, so that's why city raion names end up looking odd. Well, as I said, I'd advocate leaving regular raions alone, as their names make sense. However, city rations, I believe, should use "skyi" ending + "district". This is in line with how sources describe them, more reasonable, and allows and easy differentiation between the two. RGloucester — ☎ 20:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

<*ec*>Well, the difference between the oblasts and raions is that the former tend to have established English names (so their names need not be transliterated), while the latter normally don't (so transliteration is the most reasonable option—any other approach would pretty much amount to original research). It's the same with the names of obscure localities—they hardly ever have established names in English and are normally referred to by a transliterated Ukrainian name. You would not, for example, rename the Nyzhnohirskyi article Lower Mountains just to get rid of the "-skyi" ending, would you? :) WP:UE itself states to "follow English-language usage", not to "use only English words". For obscure place names and lower-level divisions, it is an established practice in English to use romanized local names; that's the whole reason why BGN/PCGN romanization exists.

Anyway, since I don't edit articles about Ukraine much, I'm only here in an advisory capacity. I'm sure you'll folks figure this out :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 29, 2015; 20:46 (UTC)

Yea, I thought raion is already a well established term as there are a lot of articles, particularly, concerning Ukraine that have its districts named as raions. I kind of favor the use of district over raion though. When I joined the project, there already were a lot of articles named as raions rather than district. The city district names were based on convention used for Kiev. I case of Kiev, if the name of raion derived from a name of locality such as former village or town (Amur and Nizhnodniprovsk are former settlements) that were incorporated into the city, such name was not translated into English, otherwise raions such as Industrialnyi or Korabelnyi would be translated. I believe there was a discussion in regards of the -skyi ending use in names. We decided to get rid of the ending. Also, please, note that when the Ukraine's territory was occupied by the Western Powers such as Nazi Germany, they used the same system without endings of -skyi. RGloucester, your argument about differentiating raions sounds strange. We need to stick to one convention no matter if it is a city ration or a regular raion. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

We need to do what is done by RS, and RS use "skyi + district" for city raions. I can understand the justification for "administrative centre + raion" for regular raions, as explained by DDima, but there is no such justification for the bizarre translation/transliterations of city raions that are not found in sources. I think the separation is perfectly reasonable. City districts are commonly called "districts" in English, whereas "district" sounds odd to the English ear when referring to regular raions, as they are more like what we call counties. Regardless, all that I know is that the present system for city raions is not supported by RS. RGloucester — ☎ 20:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

If we are revising this subject about raions, what are you thoughts on raions that carry names such as Chervonozavodskyi or Tsentralnomiskyi? I think I already created an article or two named as City Center Raion (instead of Tsentralnomiskyi). What are your thoughts on that? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

RGloucester, your argument about "RS" (whatever that means) also strange. As I mentioned before Ukraine was occupied by Nazi Germany which did not use ending of -skyi in naming their "reichsgebits" and "teilbezirks". Also, coming back to differentiating raions and districts, is it not infringing on original research by doing that? Just asking. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I'd say that these districts do not have a common English name, meaning that they should be left as transliterations. A translation can be given in the article, but I don't think the title should be translated, unless we can find RS that refer to them as such. I don't think the Reich is relevant here. It isn't OR if RS maintain that distinction. RGloucester — ☎ 21:09, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, I think you are missing my point here, but I will cooperate no matter what the convention would be. Also, what about all the historical administrative divisions like voivodeships and governorates? Are we going to change them as well? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Why would we? RGloucester — ☎ 21:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

In Russian Kiev Governorate is called Kievskaya guberniya, Kiev County is called Kievskiy uyezd (or Kyivskyi povit in Ukrainian). Or we are taking even earlier period, there was a Halytska zemlia as part of the Ruthenian Voivodeship (Ruske wojewodstwo). Also, about your statement that districts sound odd to the English ear. Have you checked the articles on administrative divisions of France? Are those names not an odd sound to the English ear? Just asking. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Here is a good example, Halicz Land, instead of zemlia halicka. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

That's very different, because it is a historical region discussed in sources with that name. There are no "districts" of France. We call them "arrondissements". As you are most likely aware, a large part of English vocabulary comes from French, and so we have no problem with French loan words. "District" can in theory be translated as "arrondissements", but that's not usually done. "Quartier" in French is more like what in English we call a "district". The word "district" also exists in French. Regardless, these comparisons don't make any sense. They have no relevance. The only thing that matters is how these units are described by RS. I can tell you that "Factory Raion" is not a common way of referring to anything. RGloucester — ☎ 21:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Also, RGloucester, what about the city districts of Kiev? We will have to redo them. By the way I found an encyclopedic support for your argument. Here is an article on Kharkiv at the Encyclopedia of Ukraine. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, we'd have to redo all the city districts, but that shouldn't be that hard. RGloucester — ☎ 21:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, if there are no objections, I'd like to start working on this. RGloucester — ☎ 04:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I have no objections. Perhaps it is be better to differentiate between city raions and regular raions as such (not to mention that they have a different legal standing and are on different levels of administrative subdivisions). If that's what we're rolling with amidst consensus, I'll help move all this stuff and fix all the broken links and such. § DDima 17:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I'll start to work on Category:Raions of cities in Ukraine in a bit. RGloucester — ☎ 18:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Also, I think it might be worthwhile to write up a guideline on Ukrainian places, so that the scheme is clear. RGloucester — ☎ 18:58, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I've made a draft: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ukrainian places). Let's move this discussion there, and sort this out nice and simple. RGloucester — ☎ 19:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

thanks for creating the draft. May be a related question then: I often see Oblasts and Raions used with articles (the Donetsk Oblast, the Olevsk Raion). When I see it, I remove "the". Is this actually correct? Should we add this detail to the manual?--Ymblanter (talk) 21:27, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

In English, we'd never say "the Donetsk Oblast". We might say "the region of Donetsk", or "the oblast of Donetsk", but never "the Donetsk Oblast". RGloucester — ☎ 21:46, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

That's not the answer I got from a professional linguist a few (well, quite a few) years ago :) According to him, either variant is acceptable (although he leaned towards not using the article as well, stating that using it sounds somewhat parochial to his ear), as long as the usage is consistent. Based on that recommendation, I've been removing the definite article ever since... The only exception he could think of was "the Jewish Autonomous Oblast".—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); January 30, 2015; 21:56 (UTC)

It sounds more than parochial, to me. It sounds plain odd. I agree with him on the exception, though. RGloucester — ☎ 22:05, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

It might be also good to discuss disambiiguation rules since we started the discussion anyway. What is now current practice is different from what is here and als from what we use for Russia. (I do not have any opinion for which system would be better but since I edit articlers on administrative divisions it would be good to fix smth).--Ymblanter (talk) 21:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I only transcribed what I saw in practice. What did I get wrong? RGloucester — ☎ 21:46, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

For instance, we have Romaniv (urban-type settlement), which was renamed from Romaniv (UTS).--Ymblanter (talk) 22:03, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, it seems usage is mixed. Either way, I'd definitely not recommend that form of disambiguation. It is much less comprehensible, and gives the reader less information. There is also the possibility of having two uts of the same name. RGloucester — ☎ 22:05, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I am also not a fan of it, but I prefer not to determine any policies for Ukrainian articles for many reasons. I would go with any policy provided it is consistent.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, as I said before, if no one objects, I'd like to start working on city raions. Does any have any suggestions for the best way to start implementing the above proposal? Should I just go ahead and start moving stuff? RGloucester — ☎ 22:39, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I've done Category:Raions of Donetsk. Before I do anymore, I'd like someone to check out what've done and see if it was correct, or if anything needs fixing. RGloucester — ☎ 23:13, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

@Aleksandr Grigoryev, Ezhiki, Ymblanter, and RGloucester:, what do you guys feel should be the standard for naming rural councils (selsoviets) (and any other type of local government units in Ukraine)? At present, I've started a few articles and have named them "So and so Council" or "So and so Municipality" instead of the longer format "So and so Village Council" or "So and so City Council." Currently, we have articles such as Yalta Municipality instead of Yalta City Council or Avhustynivka Council instead of Avhustynivka Village Council, so I feel it would be best to stick with the shorter versions and keep "municipality" for city council articles and "council" for urban-type settlement/village council articles. Unless that is confusing for anyone, and anyone has any better suggestions? § DDima 04:45, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I've noticed those articles, and I personally was confused by them. In English, as far as I'm aware "municipality" can refer to any town/city/&c. So, having one article called "so and so municipality", and one article called "so and so" is very confusing. If the municipality articles are about local government, I'd use something like "municipal administration", "city administration", or "city council". Just plain "municipality" is confusing, definitely. RGloucester — ☎ 04:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't see the just-plain "council". That'd work. We do that in Scotland, i.e. Fife Council. There is no reason why that wouldn't work, and it is nice and concise. RGloucester — ☎ 04:57, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

The article on Avhustynivka Council looks excellent. DDima, your proposal sounds good, yet instead of village council I believe we should stay with rural council, ie Avhustynivka Rural Council. In case of urban settlements we could leave off that (rural) clarification. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I've updated the naming convention accordingly to follow up on this consensus. § DDima 05:49, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

This may interest someone here.

This article is very weird, I don't understand it. Perhaps someone could help looking at it and clarifying? I'd do it myself but can't find time for wiki these days. Yakikaki (talk) 19:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Strikes me as a bit nonsensical and isolated. I did not even know it existed. Most likely, it should be merged into List of individuals sanctioned during the Ukrainian crisis. That article could be renamed "list of entities sanctioned". RGloucester — ☎ 19:55, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Donets Basin

Donets Basin has been porposed to be renamed, see talk:Donets Basin -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 06:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Yuri Komelkov - notable?

Given the sources are primarily Ukrainian, I have trouble assessing them. The article seems promotional and "written like a resume"... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:39, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Map update. Crimea isn't Ukrainian

Crimea is 100% part of Russia. Politically, legally, etc. The citizens voted overwhelmingly to leave post coup Ukraine. There's no measure in which you can say Crimea is part of Ukraine other than "Some corrupt politicians say so...". It would be like showing the US as still part of Britain. Get over it, the people have spoken.

-G — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.141.121 (talk) 02:08, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Not recognized by UNO as such. US is recognized by UNO as an independent state and not a part of Great Britain.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:33, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Reviewing the romanization policy

I have proposed that we begin to use Ukrainian National/United Nations transliteration, instead of BGN/PCGN, for general transliteration. The rest of the world is beginning to do so already. Please discuss at Wikipedia talk:Romanization of Ukrainian#Update to the National 2010 system.

I have also proposed that we use Library of Congress (ALA–LC) transliteration for references. Practically every English-language library and bibliographic reference in the world does so. See Wikipedia talk:Romanization of Ukrainian#Library of Congress romanization for references —Michael Z. 2013-06-21 16:14 z

Category:Roads in Ukraine by Oblast

The Roads in Ukraine by Oblast category tree, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for purging and merging. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 14:26, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

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Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

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User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Central Committee elected by the 16th Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks)

Please review. --TIAYN (talk) 22:18, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Category:Historical settlements of Ukraine

Category:Historical settlements of Ukraine, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.RevelationDirect (talk) 01:59, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Category:Aviation history of Ukraine

Category:Aviation history of Ukraine, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 00:44, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Technical question from a foreign wikipedian

Hello, I apologize for barging in but the issue truly interests me. I'm a user from a foreign-language wiki and have been dealing much with articles concerning the Khmelnytsky Uprising. At that time, the Ruthenians used Ruthenian language spelling. I wonder if it would be correct to list Khmelnytsky's name and others' in that old form, instead of or in addition to modern Ukrainian (something along this)? Would it not be better? AddMore (talk) 14:36, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

International sanctions during the Ukrainian crisis

This article has now a "criticism" section that seems to me out of proportion, considering that there is no section on "support". Perhaps it may be of interest for someone here. I'm too busy with other things myself but thought I'd give you a notification. Yakikaki (talk) 06:32, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Crimean crisis listed at Requested moves

An editor has requested for Crimean crisis to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Crimean crisis, you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so). -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 04:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

2015 Mukacheve shootings

There was serious clash in Mukacheve/Munkács between Right Sector and bodyguards of an MP days ago. Could you create and write the article based on the Ukrainian version? Thank you, --Norden1990 (talk) 01:59, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Should battle/massacre at Batoh be mentioned in the article on Khmelnytsky?

Please see the discussion at Talk:Bohdan_Khmelnytsky#Massacre_at_Batoh_section_added. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:26, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Cossacks in Ukraine

Please see merger proposal at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_29#Category:Cossacks_in_Ukraine. – Fayenatic London 07:00, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

AfC submission

(edit conflict) Could anyone asses the notability of Draft:Rostyslav Shtyn? Thanks, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 00:53, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• Also Draft:Jahn Cernăuți. Best, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 00:57, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Renaming of cities/settlements

As most of the readers here might know, in the course of the Decommunization in Ukraine about 1000 ukrainian cities, settlements, oblasty ect. will soon be renamed (http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2015/08/14/7077841/). At the moment, local authorities can submit proposals for names to the Verkhovna Rada, which will make the final decision.

As I am no regular contributor in the English Wikipedia, I would ask the members here to monitor the respective articles (List of objects which might be renamed), to prevent a mess (e.g. Dzerzhynsk, Donetsk Oblast), in the next couple of months. --Paramecium (talk) 08:44, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

The Harvest of Sorrow

I think this page needs some attention. My very best wishes (talk) 01:13, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Notability of InformNapalm

Any thoughts? Should this be prodded/AfD? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:48, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I think this page should exist, given the significant referencing of the site in Russian and Ukrainian language sources [20]. My very best wishes (talk) 01:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Cold War II#The current name

I started a discussion on the current title of the topic in question. I invite you to comment there. --George Ho (talk) 15:20, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

RfC of interest to this project

Please see this. BMK (talk) 23:57, 24 November 2015 (UTC)