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Suffrage

Suffrage (CS) Suffrage (Dict.) Suffragists (WD) African-American suffragists (WD)

Regarding suffragists, suffragettes, suffrage orgs:

1. Eric from WM Sweden provided me with this WD list of Swedish suffragists, some 830 presidents of local suffrage organizations. I think they should be showing up on our Suffragists Redlist (Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Suffragists#Wikidata list) soon?
2. Given the number of names on the CS portion of our Suffragists Redlist, would there be a benefit to splitting it out (giving it its own page) from the WD portion of the list rather than keeping them together? The CS page could include people and organizations.
3. What do you think about renaming the Redlist from Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Suffragists to Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Suffrage, in order to be inclusive of the suffragettes?

Megalibrarygirl may have some thoughts on this because of her current focus in this area. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:23, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I've added the section= parameter, to split the single WD table into a series of tables by country of citizenship. You can revert that if you don't like it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:17, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Rosiestep, if it's getting too big, maybe we should break it up into two lists. It looks pretty large. Though I am currently writing on a very slow computer and it loaded OK. I think moving the page is correct: Suffragist is a US term and Suffragette is used almost everywhere else (AFAIK). Tagishsimon I like the lists being split by country. It's a little less overwhelming. It's really sad though, just how many suffs are not written up. :( Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:11, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl and Tagishsimon:, I'd be happy to split into two lists. As we already have Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Suffragists, I'll make that exclusive for the WD list. I'll create Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Suffrage for the CS list (biographies and organizations). Indeed, it's a lot of names, but for some reason, that fuels me even more. BTW, Tagishsimon, I, too, like the series of tables. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:39, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, I have completed the split. Would you please doublecheck my work and fix anything that needs it? Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:08, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

• The split might well be in order but I must say I am rather surprised at the Swedish additions. Apart from links to articles for the first five names, this long, long list provides nothing more than their names, their country and a reference to reports from the beginning of the 20th century. I have looked for some of the names in these reports but those I have been able to find consist of little more than the name itself, possibly with a position in the relevant organization. I spend most of my time trying to improve our coverage of women in the Scandinavian countries but on this basis these names are going to be of little or no assistance. It would certainly help if Eric could persuade his Swedish collaborators to provide more details on Wikidata or better still write short articles about those who appear most important, especially if they are covered in sources other than those in the Wikidata references.--Ipigott (talk) 11:21, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the input, Ipigott. All data is still not uploaded. We are also looking into organizing a campaign focusing on improving the existing data. At this point, the objects yield quite interesting queries in Wikidata but more data will be needed to reference Wikipedia articles, obviously. Let me try to improve a few queries. I would guess that some 30–50 of the suffragettes have articles on Swedish language Wikipedia. Eric Luth (WMSE) (talk) 09:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks, Eric. I'm pleased to hear you are launching a campaign in this connection. I've looked a bit more closely at the coverage of suffragists in Swedish and see that there are in fact quite a number without articles in English (although they do not appear in the Wikidata redlist). They are Emma Aulin, Nina Benner-Anderson, Ingrid Bergius, Ezaline Boheman, Hilma Borelius, Kristina Borg, Märta Bucht, Constance Elbe, Anna Gustavsson (mejeriarbetare), Frida Hagen, Lilly Hellström, Ebba Hultqvist (politiker), Emma Isakson, Edit Kindvall, Alma Lénström, Klara Lindh, Jeanie Lundegård, Octavia Lundell, Vienna Mesterton, Alma Persson, Aurore Pihl, Gerda Planting-Gyllenbåga, Karolina Själander, Jenny Wallerstedt, Clara Wallmark, Malin Wester-Hallberg, Ellen Wester (författare) and Hildur Öijer. Unless I am mistaken, these are not among the names you supplied. If you want them to appear on suffrage redlists, it would help add pertinent details to their Wikidata entries. In the meantime, I will try to write articles about some of them myself, especially those with good sourcing.--Ipigott (talk) 10:51, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

• I don't quite understand why, for example Emma Aulin doesn't appear in the list. She has the relevant occupation statement, and citizenship. But still doesn't appear in the list. Rosiestep, do you know what is lacking? Eric Luth (WMSE) (talk) 11:44, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Eric Luth (WMSE), unfortunately, I don't know. Perhaps our more experienced Wikidatans, @Gamaliel and Tagishsimon, might have an answer. Also, the list hasn't updated in several days, even after I clicked "Update the list now" almost daily over the last few days. I tried deleting the section= parameter, but that hasn't had an effect. --Rosiestep (talk) 11:58, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Listeria is broken in all sorts of ways. It last ran successfully 7 minutes before occupation (P106): suffragist (Q27532437) was added to Emma Aulin. Right now it dies with an error message "Killed by OS for overloading memory." There is no sign that Magnus will fix the issue; and so here we are. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:34, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Is there a pattern as to which lists are still working and which are not? If so perhaps we could adjust the size or parameters of the list to compensate. Gamaliel (talk) 13:03, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Gamaliel, I don't know about a pattern, but I do know that the US-sublist on [[this redlist isn't working/updating. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:07, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Some more candidates here. Listeria botstatus thinks the Suffragists report is OK. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:29, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for all your answers. Ipigott, some data has been added. This Wikidata query renders all presidents of local organizations for women's suffrage, sorted after how many years they were president, and which of them has an article on Swedish language Wikipedia. Eric Luth (WMSE) (talk) 11:45, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

• Eric Luth (WMSE): As a result of your enthusiasm for Swedish suffragists, I've created a bunch of new biographies. You can see them listed under Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Meetup/196#Newly-created_articles_which_meet_contest_rules:_May. We also have a complete listing under the Sweden section of List_of_suffragists_and_suffragettes or simply under Category:Swedish suffragists (which now contains 68 names as compared to 42 under the equivalent category in Swedish). I would have liked to have written articles on some of the others who are covered in Swedish but the acceptance requirements on the English wiki are stricter than those for Swedish. I will nevertheless monitor further work on the Swedish wiki as well as additions to the SKBL. In this connection, I came across Diskussion:Svenskt kvinnobiografiskt lexikon/Listeria from which I might cover a few more Swedish women who have been notable as writers.--Ipigott (talk) 11:53, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

  Ipigott Wow! This is really impressive. A wonderful contribution! Eric Luth (WMSE) (talk) 12:24, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Help identifying blue-linked WiR

Hi, I'm pretty new to the project and am needing clarification on a list. ie: Christy Edwards... is that Christy Edwards Lawton, the founder of a dating APP, Righter? If Lawton, the App has a page and I don't see that the founder warrants a separate one, so maybe it's another Christy Edwards, but the only other likely candidates seemed less likely when I Googled. re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Missing_articles_by_occupation/Business

Went through that list and made corrections to a few misfired blue links, and left a Talk pg note, but maybe I should have left it here? -Newbie JAnnora2 (talk) 20:26, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

The page you edited is maintained by a bot. As and when said bot next runs (it's broken right now - another story) it'll overwrite your changes. The data is drawn from Wikidata and any changes you wish to see stick need to be made there. Whilst it's your opinion that the founder does not warrant a separate article, the list of redlinks is merely a reflection of women listed in wikidata without en wiki biographies. The listing of a person on any list is not an assertion that they are sufficiently notable for an article; that's not an evaluation that a bot can do based on the scant information in wikidata. If you follow the link in the wikidata column ... that may (or may not) clarify which Christy Edwards is listed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:38, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

It looks to me as if these long Wikidata files are unlikely to be updated as any attempt to do so comes back with the message "killed by OS for overloading memory". So we'll just have to put up with more and more blue links and no new redlinks. Pity!--Ipigott (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

I've raised the issue with Magnus this evening. It'd be a shame if Listeria were incapable of producing lists of greater than a few hundred rows, which seems to be the current limit. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:25, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

I was checking and it wasn't updating aging blue-link errors so I was trying to straighten those that were linked to someone other than the target. Been reading up on Wikidata since, so saw i was approaching it wrong. It wasn't happening on the page, so thought I should draw eyes to it via my misstep. Separately, I just couldn't see if Lawton was the Christy Edwards on the list.. I wasn't quite clear on how or why individuals get into Wikidata, and got ahead of myself. Clicking on the Wikidata link cleared up the who's who, thanks. (Yes, Lawton. I thought maybe not because I'd found so little media aside from the app on her.) It had been outside of my view window and I missed that entirely. Thanks to you both for the clarity...

If I'm not being too tedious here... what can be done when the Wikidata is correct, yet the name is blue, connecting to the wrong page? ie: Dominique Loiseau was the blue-linked male watchmaker, whereas the Wikidata is correct for a woman of the same name. (Will my watchmaker removal be undone, and the wrong page linked by bot again, and it's expected to eventually root out the wrong page issue?) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3035295 JAnnora2 (talk) 01:37, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• JAnnora2: Just like the French, you can start an article on Dominique Loiseau (restaurateur). If you search for her in Wikidata, you'll see there are two separate entries.--Ipigott (talk) 06:10, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ipigott: Thanks for your help. JAnnora2 (talk) 00:46, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

• I've made redirects from Christy Edwards and Christy Edwards Lawton to the Righter (app) page. They could always be overwritten later if someone decides she needs an article. I don't really know how redirects like this interact with Wikidata records. PamD 07:18, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• The name will continue to appear on the redlist, but now with a numerical suffix to disambiguate it from the similarly-named redirect page ... all supposing the report is ever regenerated. --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• @JAnnora2: Looking at your edits to the redlinks table... (did you see the note at the top, highlighted, which says "Edits made within the list area will be removed on the next update!"?) ... your first step was to change Katharine C. Angell to Katharine Cramer Angell. I've made a redirect from the shorter form to the full form used in our article. I also then looked at Wikidata, which had two separate records for her, one at each version. I think I've now successfully merged them, though to the shorter form which may not be ideal - but Wikidata now knows both versions of her name and that they are the same person. I think this is the more useful approach to take: as a first priority, make sure we have redirects from all other versions of someone's name which turn up anywhere, including Wikidata (and if the name is in use, then use hatnotes or dab pages to make the connections). As a second priority, fix the duplication or muddles within Wikidata. Happy Editing! I might have a go at some of the other changes you made... but I've promised myself to get on with some Real Life stuff today. PamD 07:47, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• But have stayed at my computer long enough to wonder how Wikidata is supposed to handle Sarah Young (sailor), who is a redirect, and also to fix redirects for the two male sailors listed alongside her, who had no name entries hitherto! PamD 08:04, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• German wikipedia has an article on her, if anyone German-speaking feels inspired to work on her... PamD 08:09, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@PamD: I'm glad to see I'm not alone in the cracks, after all, and grateful for the insight. (Yes, I saw that topnote, yet unchanging errors, so here I am, trying to figure it out. And, Wikidata... might take me a long minute.) JAnnora2 (talk) 00:38, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@JAnnora2: Following another of your trails... Jane English (politician) had been deleted as a copyvio some time back, and then there was a draft... I've now moved that draft to mainspace (US state senator = incontrovertibly notable), cleaned it up, linked it to Wikidata, so that's another one resolved. PamD 07:25, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@JAnnora2: And I had a look at Francisca... aaargh. I've added the missing hatnote to link that article to the disambiguation page, but I'm not sure that your "Francisca Hernandez" is the same person as the WikiData person, who is here and here. Again, must do some Real World stuff today, so not going down that rabbit-hole. Well, not right now. PamD 07:55, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

This type of question on multiple people with similar names and/or multiple similar names for the same person tends to make me want to look for more. In the case of Christy Edwards, the one we started with, there are also Christine Edwards, a filmmaker with enough credits to likely be notable (see IMDB; the article link redirects to one of her films) and a different Christine Edwards, an academic nutritionist in Glasgow who passes academic notability through well-cited publications and a journal editor-in-chief position [1]. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:59, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I recognize those rabbit holes (and holes)! I was feeling deflated, like I didn't compute some details and should just back off, because I couldn't properly assess the situation. I didn't mean to open a Pandora's Box, but it's helped me a lot just to know that I'm not the only one in the cracks. Now I can follow all of your leads in righting it, so I'm glad I pursued better understanding of the system. I appreciate each of your efforts on this. JAnnora2 (talk) 17:20, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

#1Lib1Ref

#1Lib1Ref

Imagine a World where Every Librarian Added One More Reference to Wikipedia.

Just a note that from May 15th to June 5th #1Lib1Ref is holding one of its semiannual campaigns to add references to articles. Your goal is to add at least one reference to Wikipedia!

Readers of this page could add a handful of citations after supper tonight. Add the hashtag #1Lib1Ref in the edit summary. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Hi,

A user Zᴇᴇx.ʀɪᴄᴇ has proposed article named Women related laws in Pakistan to be merged in the article Women in Pakistan.

A discussion has been requested at Talk:Women in Pakistan#Merger proposal

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 08:15, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Join the new Regional Committees for Grants

Dear all,

We hope this email finds you well and safe. The COVID 19 situation continues to affect many of us across the globe and our thoughts are with everyone affected. We are also aware that there are several processes currently in progress that demand volunteer time and we do not want to add more work to anyone's plate.

We do want to draw your attention to our new Regional Committees for Grants though as they are an opportunity for you to have an active say in the future of our Movement!

📣 So today, we invite you to join our new Regional Committees for Grants! 📣

We encourage Wikimedians and Free Knowledge advocates to be part of the new Regional Committees that the WMF Community Resources team is setting up as part of the grants strategy relaunch [2]. You will be a key strategic thought partner to help understand the complexities of any region, provide knowledge and expertise to applicants, to support successful movement activities, and make funding decisions for grant applications in the region.

👉Find out more on meta [3].

Regional Committees will be established for the following regions:

• Middle East and Africa
• SAARC [4] region (Includes Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, the Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka)
• East, Southeast Asia, and Pacific (ESEAP) region
• Latin America (LATAM) and The Caribbean
• United States and Canada
• Northern and Western Europe
• Central and Eastern Europe (CEE)

👉All details about the Committees and how to apply can be found on meta [5]. Applications have to be submitted by June 4, 2021!

If you have any questions or comments, please use the meta discussion page [6].

Please do share this announcement widely with your Network.

Best wishes,

JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:28, 21 May 2021 (UTC) on behalf of the Community Resources Team

Lucidor Corbin

I've created a page for the fascinating Lucidor Corbin, but it has no incoming links. Can anyone think of places they could be added? Dsp13 (talk) 17:41, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Shaheen Khan (British actress)

Hi. I noticed that Shaheen Khan, the actress who played the protagonist's mother in Bend It Like Beckham, does not have an article. It took me a little while to be sure of that, because various films/series she's in just link(ed) to Shaheen Khan, which is now a disambiguation page but until recently was occupied by the article about Shaheen Khan (Indian actress); Wikidata also thinks they're the same person. But no, this is someone else, a British actress of Indian origin, so I think Shaheen Khan (British actress) would be the appropriate article title. Based on what she's been in (IMDB profile) and that she was nominated for a Satellite Award for Best Supporting Actress – Motion Picture (in fact, she's the only red link in that entire list of nominees!), I'm pretty sure she's notable. I can't easily find a lot of significant coverage though, mostly some articles about her playing Lady Macbeth a few years ago (such as this one), but there must be more.

Anyway, what I'm here to ask is: is anyone interested in creating this article? I lack article-creation experience myself, but it definitely seems like this is a person we should have an article about, and she's obviously within the scope of this project. Lennart97 (talk) 20:49, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Lennart97: That just sounds like a reason for you to get experience by making the article yourself and then we can help out afterwards. :P Here's some sources I found to use, in addition to the good one you have there:

Bend It Like Beckham actress Shaheen Khan in B.C. to shoot film Pink Ludoos - CanWest News

Two Indians among UK's "Asian Women of Achievement Awards" winners - The Hindustan Times

Macbeth, one of Shakespeare's darkest and most powerful - Norwich Evening News

Stepping into Hayley Mills' shoes: Rising star Amara Karan tells David Gritten why she was particularly thrilled to land her latest role - The Daily Telegraph

Professor who escaped life of drudgery wins Asian award - The Independent

Cannes to see short films of the law - Scotland on Sunday

'Mistress Of Spices' is bland fare - The Hindustan Times

I hope that helps. Make sure you have a Wikipedia Library account to access them, if you don't already. Silverseren^C 21:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! That's actually not a bad idea at all. I'll try to turn that link blue soon - a small stub I'll definitely manage, after that I'll see how far I get, and report back if I need any help. Lennart97 (talk) 21:45, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

We're definitely going to need to re-arrange disambiguation links on the articles afterwards, since Shaheen Khan (Indian actress) links to Shaheen Khan (Pakistani actress) and vice versa, but not to the disambig page. And Shaheen Khan (cricketer) doesn't link to any other page. Silverseren^C 21:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh, that part won't be very hard :) I've started working on the article, with a draft at Draft:Shaheen Khan (British actress). Thanks again for your help! Lennart97 (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata item at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q106936801 --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll make sure to link it when moving the article to mainspace. Lennart97 (talk) 10:10, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Possible solution to photos for Women Biographies

Finding photos of women (especially African and Particularly Nigerian) for their biographies on Wikipedia is hectic and tiring. They are almost non-existent. So many articles needing photos. I have an idea: To screenshot recognizable and quality images from verified news channels about subject on Youtube? 1. Is this allowed on Commons? copyright issues? 2. Do you know any other workable suggestions?

Pls help

--OtuNwachinemere (talk) 12:01, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

In general, not allowed. The image copyright is owned by someone else and no licence granted for such use. It is as simple as, current copyright law makes it difficult to get images for all sots of things. No magic bullet. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:49, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

The (relatively rare) exception is when a YouTube interview video has the Creative Commons Attribution license, in which case the video description will say "Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)" — for example, this video of Emma Watson. There is a "Creative Commons" filter when you search videos on YouTube, but make sure that the video uploader is the actual copyright owner and not someone uploading an unlawful recording of someone else's work. Screenshots from YouTube videos that are CC-licensed can be transferred to Commons with the {{YouTube CC-BY}} license. DanCherek (talk) 12:57, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I’ve had a lot of success this way, generally when I find one interviewer who CC-licenses all their interviews, and then you might get dozens from one place. I got most of my ~300 uploads this way. Happy to help OtuNwachinemere if you’re ever unsure—one does need to watch out for copycats (people uploading work they don’t have the rights to), like Dan says. And it’s true that the major channels generally don’t license their work compatibly. So it’s still, yeah, a bit hectic and tiring! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:35, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh Oh! Just did a quick search of major interview channels this side, sadly none is CC-licensed. *Sad face*. I guess i'll have to find another way around this.

Thanks everyone. Appreciate. sad but #weMove --OtuNwachinemere (talk) 18:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@OtuNwachinemere, sometimes it's possible to reach out to the article subjects. Many notable women have a listing somewhere with contact information. They can upload a selfie, or a friend can upload a photo. —valereee (talk) 14:05, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Extension of Mental health redlist

We already have Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Mental health professional but it would be much more useful if it could be extended to include its subclasses psychiatrists, psychologists and psychotherapists (and any others). I realize we have been experiencing problems with updating Wikidata but maybe Gamaliel or Tagishsimon (or any other Wikidata expert) could help out.--Ipigott (talk) 08:08, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. I'm pretty swamped this month with the WMDC May Contest and the DOWW project, but if you ping me later this summer I'll be glad to help out. Gamaliel (talk) 18:10, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Gamaliel. In that case I'll have to try and fix it myself although my competence with Wikidata has not always met with wide approval!--Ipigott (talk) 21:06, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

The problem right now is that Listeria is properly broken - this chart gives a fair indication of the drop-off arising from a single bug. I've tweaked the SPARQL of the mental health report, but Listeria's not having anything to do with updating it, although the SPARQL is valid and produces 3.6k rows. It's quite depressing. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:18, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Something's changed: Listeria has generated a new Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Mental health professional report, and has run hundreds of other reports. Not all, though; but doing much better than it has been doing in recent times. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:15, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes! It just updated and expanded the DoWW redlist by 100,000 bytes—I think now covers all ~1500 names Gamaliel has entered from that project so far. Great news! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Alevtina Fedulova

If anyone has information about Alevtina Fedulova, or is knowledgeable about the subject, please could they have a look at the article and check everything is OK? Thank you. --Bangalamania (talk) 12:17, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Preloaddraft

Hallo, While stubsorting I've recently come across quite a few biogs of women which have been sorting under "," in Category:Stubs. These all seem to have been created using {{preloaddraft}}, which seems to provide an outline of an article from some database or other. As well as garbled DEFAULTSORT (either " , " or " ,Forename"), quite a lot of them have dates like "She was born on 1895", the system being geared up to a full date and not clever enough to change "on" to "in" for a year-only date. And the editors using the template aren't always taking enough care to notice. Most of these articles have the WIR #Onewomanoneday tag. Does anyone know anything about where these are coming from, how we can get them improved, etc? I've fixed the defaultsorts in mainspace articles in Category:Created via preloaddraft, though there are a lot more in Drafts. Examples include Mary Wilson Thompson andd Sally Scott Murray, or see my contributions list for the last quarter hour. PamD 20:48, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

PamD, I believe those two at least are from the WMFDC 100 Women project. Thanks for the help sorting them out; the preloaded draft function is so cool but indeed it’s not immediately obvious how to tweak some components. Innisfree987 (talk) 10:40, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Just started doing some DEFSORTS on drafts, including one of mine; I’ll circle back for more later. Innisfree987 (talk) 10:56, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok about as sorted as can be without more progress on the drafts. Though a good number of substantial drafts abandoned from Art + Feminism in March which is too bad... Innisfree987 (talk) 11:55, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

NB, for anyone not already using it: user:BrandonXLF/HotDefaultSort totally rules for this. It’s like HotCat but for DEFSORT. Sooo much less of a pain. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: How does it work? The documentation seems to tell you how to instal it but not what it looks like in action. Say you come across Jane Xyzzz Zyxxx: what then? Does it offer a choice of likely Defaultsorts to choose from? Presumably it allows you to specify that she files as either X... or Z..., depending on what you've decided from the sources. I'd spotted that you were using it, and wondered about it.

I'd add that my favourite short cut is the wonderful "{{subst:L|1952||Zyxxx, Jane Xyzzz}}" which not only adds the defaultsort but creates Category:Living people and Category:1952 births (or as appropriate if a death date is added as the second parameter). It saves a lot of typing. In fact if I find an article which already has "{{DEFAULTSORT:Zyxxx, Jane Xyzzz}}" but without the birth and living/death categories, I'll often overtype it to put "subst:L", as the fastest way to add the birth and "living person" categories with minimal keystrokes. The template is {{L}}, but it has to be used "subst"ed. PamD 20:02, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh that does add quite a lot in one go, I’ll have to make a note. Thanks! As for HotDefaultSort, if you’ve tried HotCat it looks just like that—for Jane Xyzzz Zyxxx, you’d be able to see it in Visual Editor, click, revise to Zyxxx, Jane Xyzzz, and click the check mark to save. Only a single click required to delete an error like those you came upon in the prefab drafts. But basically it makes it possible to do DEFSORT in Visual Editor. Useful nudge for those of us whose brains don’t retain the source code so well (yours truly, alas). Or for cleanup as here. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:33, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, I just installed and used this tool. It's great and will help me when I fix Sorts in the Orphaned articles. Thank you!--Oronsay (talk) 20:57, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh excellent! Yes it makes maintenance tasks much quicker. Thanks for your work! Innisfree987 (talk) 21:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, I'm going to demo the tool at a meetup on Sunday as I don't believe my fellow editors are aware of it.--Oronsay (talk) 01:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Oronsay, that’s awesome—I agree, I think it’s very under the radar and I wish I’d had it years earlier! Thanks for spreading the word. (We could maybe also ask the author to put a little image of what it looks like on that documentation page; it was understandable that Pam wondered what it was going to look like.) Innisfree987 (talk) 02:30, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, Yippee! No one had seen it before and I think nearly everyone added the script. One longstanding editor commented that he almost always forgot the Sort key and the gadget would remind him! --Oronsay (talk) 03:36, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Oronsay, oh I’m delighted! And that editor could be me, ha—I almost never remembered before, but now it’s so easy! Thank you for spreading the word—I wish it were easier to share more of these tricks with our fellow editors. (Or maybe the problem is I’m not technical enough—I’m not sure how scripts become official Gadgets everyone’s offered in Preferences. But this should be there!) Innisfree987 (talk) 03:46, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, Sure, but we still need to be prodded to explore! --Oronsay (talk) 05:28, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Claudia Sahm

Editor MenciusMoldbug (talk | contribs) keeps trying to add the number of peer-reviewed publications to the header of Claudia Sahm. It reads as if the intent is to denigrate Sahm's expertise, since Sahm has been influential, in part through research that doesn't make it into peer-reviewed publications (such as Fed Notes), and in any case, I think a count of publications ought to go in the research section of the page, not in the page header. I've reverted it twice and I know a third reversion is not permitted. Could someone else please get involved?--EAWH (talk) 15:27, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@EAWH: For clarity's sake, and in the interests of maintaining your block log's spotless pristinity, understand that you don't "get" two automatic reverts: per WP:4RR, The rule is not an entitlement to revert a page a specific number of times. Cheers! ——Serial 16:06, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@EAWH: Personally, I know that's a loaded statement in itself, when I have reverted something, unless it's egregious, I will still go to the talk page to explain the revert trying to engage the other editor in meaningful discussion and hoping we can compromise or find consensus. It rarely works but the few times it does it restores my faith in the principles we are trying to adhere to within the encyclopedia. --ARoseWolf 19:16, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Jane Margyl

Usually I know how to find references about opera singers but this one is special. Any help welcome for Jane Margyl. I don't read French, so have a hard time to tell if a source is good, and those coming up for her are mostly of images, and in French. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi. You've probably already tried this, but just fyi in case not. If you have access to newspapers.com through the Wikipedia Library, you might be able to find something about her in U.S. newspapers of the period. I just did a quick search, and came across a report in a 1907 edition of The Salt Lake Herald of her illness from appendicitis. Hope it helps. 47thPennVols (talk) 00:51, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Without having looked at them all in detail, it looks to me as if some of the sources from the French article are worthwhile. I'm rather tied up at the moment but if no one else steps in, I might be able to help out a bit next week. I see from the talk page that we need to check out carefully the sources currently mentioned. The passage from Les Annales seems to be particularly worthwhile, ditto that from Le Monde artiste.--Ipigott (talk) 08:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

A plea for Newspapers.com guidance

I’ve been drawn into the exceedingly well-organized Wikimedia DC women competition (check out their redlink list! Great stuff!) and using the occasion to get my sealegs on my new Newspapers.com account—and on the latter I am considerably less adept! I am wondering if anyone can advise on, for instance, how to link two clippings when a story continues on a jump page—like, say, the two parts of this obituary? Part 1, Part 2. Any other tips equally welcome—I’m embarrassed to admit I took the “if all else fails, read the directions” approach and when I finally did decide I needed to read the instructions and orient myself properly... it’s now rejecting my login credentials! Oy! I assume I’ll eventually get that sorted but as far as making use of the materials, any nudges in the right direction would be most welcome. (For context I am on mobile and the site is a little hard to navigate that way but not impossible, as I did manage a few clippings semi-successfully...) Thanks muchly. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:45, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, I wrestled with the handling of jumped stories also and finally decided to treat each jump as a separate story when creating citations. Using your example, the first citation would have "Mrs. Irma G. Dixon, Md. Delegate, Dies" for the headline and D 24 for the page number. The second would have "Mrs. Irma G. Dixon, Md. House Delegate" and D 2 for the page number, with the appropriate URL for each clipping. Others may have better ideas, but that is my approach. Eddie Blick (talk) 01:26, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Teblick, thank you, it reminds me we would do something similar for, say, page numbers of a book so why not a newspaper article? Will def go with that for now. But I feel like I have seen linked pages and wish I knew how that were accomplished! Innisfree987 (talk) 01:59, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: Wikipedia:Newspapers.com#Citations across multiple pages/clippings has one suggestion for dealing with this, which I personally like and have used before. Essentially, you can add multiple clippings in the |pages= part of the citation template, as in |pages=[https://www.newspapers.com/clip/77649514/irma-george-dixon-obituary-1965/ D24], [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/77649777/irma-george-dixon-obituary-part-2-of-2/ D2]. DanCherek (talk) 02:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for posting that tip, DanCherek. Now I just need to remember to use that technique.Eddie Blick (talk) 02:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh yes, that’s great—thanks DanCherek! Innisfree987 (talk) 03:39, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh, that's cool, thanks, very helpful! Penny Richards (talk) 14:31, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Help needed with Rita Ali

Hi. I just created Rita Ali - she's the first female and first Black mayor of Peoria, Illinois - but the article has been tagged for notability. I had assumed that elected mayors are inherently notable per WP:NPOL, but I was wrong about that. I also thought I'd cited sufficient significant coverage, but maybe it's too local in nature, or too focused on the single event of her election/swearing in. Anyway, the problem is that I'm having a hard time finding other sources about her, though I really can't imagine that there isn't more, or that she really isn't notable. Does anyone feel like helping out? Lennart97 (talk) 21:27, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for giving the group a heads up. I did some searching online this afternoon, and found multiple articles about Rita Ali. So, she certainly appears to be notable. I began adding more content, as well as citations to begin making the case to keep her article as a dedicated bio (and not delete or merge it). I then added a Women in Red banner to the article's talk page to (hopefully) give it a bit of protection, and reassessed it as start class. But, I think it would be helpful if other members of the group could also add to the article. In addition, I'm wondering if the individual who tagged the article and questioned Rita Ali's notability is aware of the Women in Red initiative, and whether or not it might be helpful for someone from WIR to do a bit of educational outreach? 47thPennVols (talk) 00:40, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for all your help, 47thPennVols. I've removed the tag and rated it C. Lennart97: The article is certainly not too local. Now that you've made such a good start with Rita Ali, you might be interested in writing more articles about women. Every little helps.--Ipigott (talk) 08:35, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

My pleasure, Ipigott, and thank you for your help. - 47thPennVols (talk) 08:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you both for your help! 47thPennVols, the editor who tagged it for notability is an experienced editor and new page patroller, so I wouldn't worry about it; I don't think they necessarily made a bad call here, as the article at that point could have much more clearly demonstrated the subject's notability, as it now does thanks to you. Ipigott, maybe I will! It's fun, and I know where to find help :) Lennart97 (talk) 11:53, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Lennart97, we're always happy to help out! Lajmmoore (talk) 08:59, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

June 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | June 2021, Volume 7, Issue 6, Numbers 184, 188, 196, 199, 200, 201 Online events: New: Wiki Loves Pride | June Junes | Jewellers & Watchmakers Contest (Apr/May/Jun): Women in Europe contest Year-long campaign: Women's rights Continuing: #1day1woman Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage | Help us plan future events Become a member | Opt-out of notifications Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Rosiestep (talk) 18:48, 28 May 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Kay Lahusen

Sending up the ITNRD bat signal again—photographer and gay rights activist Kay Lahusen has died. Have proposed the entry for RD but it’ll need more references to pass. There are good sources so it won’t be too hard, it’s just always nicer with company, if anyone else is interested! Innisfree987 (talk) 12:30, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the bat signal, I enjoyed helping on this one! Penny Richards (talk) 14:18, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Penny Richards, Innisfree987 This is such a great article! Lajmmoore (talk) 16:05, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Lajmmoore, and thank you Penny Richards for all your contributions—the entry is so much the better for it! Agree with both, very happy to work on this one, it’s a good one. Innisfree987 (talk) 19:11, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Margot Horspool

A deletion discussion is in progress. One popular suggestion has been to write an article about the book she co-authored and redirect there. ~Kvng (talk) 15:14, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Kvng, thank you I noticed that and wanted to ask—are there good sources describing/reviewing the book, enough to write a book page? If so that should go to her notability IMO—as we recently discussed in a different AfD I definitely am sympathetic to need for sufficient sources, but I also think sometimes sources on work by women are treated as somehow not information the woman in question, whereas information about work men have done is seen (correctly from my POV) as obviously bio material... Innisfree987 (talk) 16:20, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, I personally think the subject meets WP:NPROF #4 and that's the end of it. The other argument is that this is a WP:BLP so we have to have sources directly about the subject and no one has satisfied that yet. The suggested notability of the text is based on its documented use (via primary sources such as syllabuses) in classes at a large number of prestigious universities. I'm not sure whether independent reviews exist. ~Kvng (talk) 21:34, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Ahh ok—huh I would have a hard time seeing writing an entry for a book without sources to meet GNG. But thank you very much, that’s clarifying about the lines of debate. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:46, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Kept, and there were some improvements. ~Kvng (talk) 12:49, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Dorothy Gordon (Australian actress): Review Request

Hi there! I'm new to Wikipedia and contributing to building the Dorothy Gordon (Australian actress) page. I have made significant changes and will be editing the page till 31 May, and would really appreciate any feedback and/or advice to improve the article. It would also be great if you could take a moment to review the classification of the article - I believe it has been developed past a stub, but I'm not entirely sure of the assessment. Thank you! Jolisjoujou (talk) 04:48, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Jolisjoujou. According to ORES, the article's quality is now rated C-class, so I updated the talkpage templates. I also removed the stub template from the article. Good job! --Rosiestep (talk) 05:32, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Rosiestep, I really appreciate it! Jolisjoujou (talk) 10:28, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Robbie McCauley

In case anyone’s around—another ITNRD candidate. Robbie McCauley was an African-African playwright and performance artist, as well as actress—she performed in the 1976 Broadway ensemble of For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide / When the Rainbow Is Enuf. Entry is pretty substantial so it mostly needs referencing and perhaps a bit of reorganizing. I’ve been working on it periodically since I noticed it in the immensely helpful WiR RD list, but always welcome a friend! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Could someone help me import data about the gender of names into Wikidata? Also how could we use it?

Hi all

I've identified some data from a UN agency about the gender of names, as part of it I need a Wikidata query, could someone who knows how to query help?

• https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Request_a_query#Please_can_I_have_a_list_of_first_names_and_their_genders_with_information_around_them?_I_want_to_improve_the_data

A follow on question, does anyone have suggestions for how to use the data? I'm sure that it would be helpful to inform giving Wikidata items with gender info missing but not quite sure how practically. Any suggestions? Would it be possible to set up something for Women in Red that was a list of people we assume are women and just need confirming by a human? I know there are many names where it can a female name in one country and a male or unisex name in another.

Thanks John Cummings (talk) 13:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@John Cummings: I looked at the request and played a bit. It will take several queries to give you what you want (which is fine) and all sorts of questions on handling arise, mainly around do you want multiple rows for a single name (b/c e.g. lots of sitelinks) or do you want data aggregated using Group_concat (e.g. all sitelinks for a name crammed into a single cell). I'll try to start providing some reports later today (though others are welcome to dive in). --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much Tagishsimon, any help would be greatly appreciated.John Cummings (talk) 23:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@John Cummings: Honestly, this sounds like a terrible idea. Unisex names, modern names that defy traditional gender usage, names that are typically different genders in different countries, trans persons who do not change their name (or do!) - so many problems from ascribing gender to names. Just don't. Seriously, don't, especially if it's going to be automatically assigning gender to people based on their name. Kingsif (talk) 21:53, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I have to add to this: you think it would help resolve wikidata items with gender missing, but it would almost certainly definitely make that problem worse. Items have gender missing when nobody has been bothered to check and add it. The fact it is missing will encourage random users who stumble upon the item to add it. Were you to mess with a bot automatically assigning gender based on name, the gender will no longer be missing, but surely at least 10% of the time will be incorrect or unknown. So those random users, who don't know it's been bot-added, now won't be bothered to find out the correct gender. And if there haven't been users willing to go through and manually check and add genders to data items to start with, what on earth makes you believe there will be the users to manually check the bot has assigned correctly? With all the hassle to set up, too, this would be far more grief than use. Kingsif (talk) 21:59, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Kingsif, I'm confused, what sounds like a terrible idea? Reading your reply I think you've misunderstood my question, I did not suggest gender is added automatically to Wikidata items. Thanks, John Cummings (talk) 23:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Providing an automatically generated list of suggestions based on names is more or less the same as hiring an incompetent intern to treat those suggestions as the literal truth and add them to the database with extra typos but no checking. You know someone is going to do it, without checking carefully enough. I find myself continually being surprised by people with names that I thought had a definite gender, not matching that gender (most recently, an AfD for someone named Nike who turns out to be male). One can make reasonable guesses that for familiar names are accurate 80%-90% of the time but that's not good enough. We really want people who might add these claims to Wikidata to be forced to go out and check and do it right, and I don't see how any kind of automation is going to accomplish that. Another less-obviously-bad idea would be to find those cases where the stated gender doesn't match the typical use of the name, as a list of entries that might need more careful human attention, but I think there will be far too many to handle. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:15, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

And the fact that creating a WiR list of "we think these are women but they might not be" - if you're trying to catch wikidata items that WiR should cover but can't see - could also lead to Wikipedia articles stating the wrong gender if WiR users just assume the list is all women (not reading the prose before the list fully is likely very common). Wikidata is generally thorough when there are sources/a clear gender, so I would also assume the biggest blindspots for gender missing items are going to be women with male-sounding names that nobody has been able to confirm, and historic women who went by initials or pseudonyms, two groups that won't be caught. You're also going to get a lot of men even just including names that are gendered differently in England and America (e.g. Lesley, Hilary - both typically male in the UK)! Names don't have gender, and I see almost no chance of this not resulting in false genders assumed to be correct. Automated guesswork really isn't WP:V. So I think I got it correct, if not outlining the steps: WiR wikidata list assigns gender to "name", but the name is indicating an individual; someone assumes being on a WiR list means it's a woman, and updates data and/or makes the Wikipedia article with female pronouns, but doesn't have a source. How many British Lesley's and Hilary's, Italian Andrea's, etc. are going to be caught up in this? And it's not like WiR is short on lists of redlinks that it seems pertinent to start looking for more. Kingsif (talk) 07:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Flags on "Meetup" pages

How do we determine the flags on the "1 day 1 woman" pages such as the current Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/184? I've logged Kate Nicholl with a UK flag, which for a person in Northern Ireland is technically correct but possibly politically inadvisable. Nicholl has already said she wants to try and unite Belfast as much as possible (which is a general theme shared by the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland). So sticking her name next to a flag that would get strong support from the Democratic Unionist Party but strong opposition from Sinn Fein might be politically loaded, particularly in an article on a NI politician standing on a platform of neutrality. Can we use the Flag of Ulster instead? Or am I just making a fuss over nothing? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:10, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Above my paygrade but if I had to think who to ask, the answer might well be you Ritchie333! So I support your doing whatever you see as the path of wisdom here. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:04, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't think you need any flag, but you can (and many do) use multiple - put the UK and Ireland if you feel it's appropriate. Kingsif (talk) 00:48, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the article. Ritchie333. It's totally up to you. One flag, multiple flags, no flags, regional flag, country flag, indigenous flag... all are okay choices. --Rosiestep (talk) 04:51, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Verification

Women in Red was denied verification. We are not notable enough :p HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 20:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

• Maybe because we don't have an "official website" beyond our presence on Wikipedia. Oh well. --Rosiestep (talk) 04:54, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Black sea?

Greetings,

By chance any one interested in topic of Black Sea here? Looking for article expansion support in 2 tasks

• i) Merging coastal city listing in chronological order Coastal and port cities on Black Sea coast, population and trade
• ii) Finding refs and expanding the article for women related activities in Black Sea trade (This comes in 2 roles a) Historically Women themselves were trafficked traded on Black Sea trade routs extensively as "goods" b) Women traders also were their in these regions but this is under researched area hopefully some one takes it some day)

Though connection might seem distant but above topic is distinctly related to Ottoman time history of common female trafficking.

Thanks

Bookku (talk) 07:27, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Image question

hello all! I'm working on a page for fa'afafine Amao Leota Lu and I was looking for an image. Firstly they are alive! Secondly there's no image on commons, or under the usual https://ccsearch.creativecommons.org/ I use, BUT I searched on Ecosia for "amao leota lu cc-by" with the setting of use commercially and this image came up. I wondered if someone who knew more about image metadata than me could take a look and see if it is OK to use? Lajmmoore (talk) 08:11, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Lajmmoore, very sorry to say the only rights information I see on their website is “All Rights Reserved” so unless I’m overlooking something (do point out if I am!), it would not seem to be CC or otherwise freely licensed. You could always send them a note asking them to donate the image, if you’re feeling very motivated! (And in that case by far the easiest way is if they add a note saying the image is CC or PD. Otherwise they’ll need to email with OTRS verifying their ownership and permission.) Innisfree987 (talk) 18:45, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, thanks! That's what I thought - I was just hopeful there was something I'd missed! Lajmmoore (talk) 19:26, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Alessia Zecchini

Alessia Zecchini is tagged as of interest to this project. The article is quite well developed, and apparently based on the equivalent article in Italian Wikipedia, but at present is entirely without references. I would expect the original would have some references, probably sufficient, but I do not read Italian, so cannot fix it myself. I suggest someone with the requisite language skills fix this before someone tags it for deletion. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 15:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

• Original has 35 references. Should be enough to work with. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 15:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

  Pbsouthwood, thank you for this note. I have added some NYT coverage of her diving (the Italian is a bit of a heavy lift for me), so at minimum it is no longer unsourced and should prompt a WP:BEFORE search that turns up much more. Perhaps a stronger Italian speaker will add as well. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:38, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

  I will check the article in the morning and if no one has updated it with the references from the Italian Wikipedia then I will do it. --ARoseWolf 18:50, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

  @Pbsouthwood and Innisfree987: I made a start. I'll continue to translate and add sources where I can. Trying to be judicious and read the sources to confirm they will pass the English guidelines for reliable sources. So far, so good. --ARoseWolf 20:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Ellen Cobb (judoka)

Hi all -- I created a stub article for Ellen Cobb several years ago that was originally deleted, due to perceived notability issues. Late last year, Espresso Addict resurrected it as a draft to add additional sources/text. It's certainly a bit stronger than before, but the draft was gathering dust, so I've just tentatively shifted it into article main space. I wanted to get a second opinion: does it have enough substance now to withstand scrutiny, or do you think it's best left as a draft? Thanks, Alanna the Brave (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Sports are hardly my strong suit but it is a lot stronger than many kept entries in that domain. If I’d seen it at NPR I’d think it was fine. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

It's probably still slightly under the multiple non-trivial sources requirement; ref 2 helps a lot, ref 1 is supporting - Radio Times identifying her as a "Champion" - and the Canadian and Italian fight reports also help, slightly. Equally the claims made suggest she is encyclopaedic, and there is an ample quantity of references. I think wish her luck & leave her in mainspace. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Fair use for photo of deceased person?

I just created Gloria Joseph and I'd really like to add a photograph but can't find any with a creative commons license. Are there any ways to use a copywritten photograph under fair use guidelines given that this person died a few years ago? Many thanks for any assistance anyone can provide! --Citrivescence (talk) 23:17, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

The policy is yes "provided that ever obtaining a free close substitute is not reasonably likely." I don't think we can say that obtaining a free close substitute is not reasonably likely in this case. In other news, I've asked via twitter a copyright holder of some GJ images if they'd open licence one of them. Will report back. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:40, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, as long as it is within the size specifications for fair use and is a historical portrait used as the likeness of the person for educational (encyclopedia) purposes, it is usually ok. I've found that I have to be really precise in how I complete the fair use file upload form. Good luck if you have problems, ping me and I will do my best to help. Netherzone (talk) 23:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Having gone through academia, I perhaps understand fair use from that perspective, but if there is a reasonable need for a non-free image, that need (even if you could theoretically delay book publishing) is always seen as present; if the image meets a purpose that means it cannot be replaced (this is the trickier part of the fair use form, for me), it can be used. I find that photographers have more objections to the whole concept of fair use than, e.g. cinematographers, but then often these photographers misunderstand fair use and believe that it either needs their consent or applies in perpetuity (when in reality it expires as soon as the image is not useful or irreplaceable - this of course being taken in good faith with published books that cannot be recalled, but often with books the image producer is made aware and credited) Kingsif (talk) 08:04, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Kingsif, that’s clarifying, thank you! Innisfree987 (talk) 15:30, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate this information, everyone. Tagishsimon, thank you for asking around on Twitter. My next step was going to be to reach out to some of her associates to see if anyone would be willing to license it for Wiki. If no one provides anything, I think trying a fair use rationale using Netherzone's advice is a good next step. --Citrivescence (talk) 16:33, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Sofia Hublitz

Someone is out to delete another article, of female actor Sofia Hublitz, notability should not be an issue, She has had over 2 million pageviews since I craeted the article, she is watched by millions on Netflix over 4 seasons of Ozark (TV series) where she plays a main character of Charlotte Bird. There is no reason why this should be deleted, there are much worse articles out there they should pick on first. Please assist, thank you for your support.James Kevin McMahon (talk) 18:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@James Kevin McMahon: Please read and follow Wikipedia:Canvassing. Your notification here, of this issue, is not neutral. If there are no notability issues, delete the prod notice. Read WP:NACTOR and ensure the article meets it, or meets WP:GNG, since you may later need to argue the case at an AfD discussion. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:46, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok thanksJames Kevin McMahon (talk) 18:50, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

The never-ending issue of list maintenance

After reading some of the above discussion on List of British women photographers, I have a suggestion to make. In 2019 I created a spreadsheet of Lists of women (and of Australian articles – my homeland) that require regular updating so that I could keep track of which ones I'd worked on. Seeing the above discussion, I have adapted it and created a User subpage, List for checking lifespan details in lists of women. I would be pleased for this to be moved to a WIR project subpage if you think it useful and can find a home for it.--Oronsay (talk) 20:26, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Oronsay, for all your efforts on keeping these lists up to date. Please feel free to move it to WIR. If you don't know what title it should have, perhaps Rosiestep could suggest something.--Ipigott (talk) 14:46, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

If there were a short essay accompanying the list, explaining the purpose of the list, what to review, etc., the page (including the list), could be added to the essay section of Women in Red, and be named something like Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Essays/Primer and list for checking lifespan details in lists of women. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Ipigott and Rosiestep. I will work on drafting the suggested primer/essay later this week – am a bit busy tomorrow, but it will definitely happen – and will move the page when done.--Oronsay (talk) 09:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

seeking another opinion

I think that the article List of British women photographers is inappropriately tagged as needing additional citations. The list contains only blue links, so all the photographers can be assumed to be notable. Shall we remove that tag? Best, WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:39, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

My reading of WP:LISTVERIFY is that the individual entries need not be sourced unless their annotations contain anything controversial or likely to be challenged. PamD 16:03, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

So I've WP:BOLDly removed the tag - it was added as {{references}} by @ClemRutter: in June 2019 and later changed to {{refimprove}} by another editor after a few sources to individuals had been added, but I don't think a list of blue links needs references. If you look at Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists, the two examples under "annotated list" (List of business theorists and List of bicycle brands and manufacturing companies) are both pretty much unreferenced. PamD 16:14, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks PamD for being bold, whilst I was being meek. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

No longer an issue. I think at the time I was concerned by items such as *Hélène Binet see Switzerland. These linked to another list page- List of photographers by location#country- and when you followed that link, you could find another a link to another #country section. These were often good articles with a single source- a trade directory of photographers. Hélène Binet is now a blue link. I am pleased that someone is giving the page a little tender loving care.ClemRutter (talk) 17:28, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• As I created the list about five years ago, I'm happy to see that these issues have been sorted out. I hadn't realized there were any problems. I suppose I should check through all the other lists of women photographers one of these days. I have a feeling several of them may need some substantial updating.--Ipigott (talk) 20:32, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Ipigott! I often edit the lists of women photographers/artists as it is often where I start an article. This was the first time I had run into a tag requesting more citations. And most seem to have a monitor like ClemRutter making sure no redlinks are on the list. While we are on the subject, There is a page called List of 20th-century women artists. It is a good place for artists that don't have their own country page. Most countries are covered, but there are a few that aren't. Should we make a page for a list 21st century women artists? We are 1/5 of the way through the century. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 22:50, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• Yes, WomenArtistUpdates, I agree it would be a good idea to have a list of 21st-century women artists although it will require considerable effort. These lists are useful for those researching women's place in the various cultural sectors but they also offer guidance to those developing articles about women in other language versions of Wikipedia. It's important to develop and maintain them. They could all be made more attractive by the inclusion of a few images.--Ipigott (talk) 05:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Ipigott, I naively thought if we "built it they would come". I didn't think of it in terms of onerous creating and maintaining. I just thought about making a skeleton page that was similar in structure to List of 20th-century women artists and seeding it with a few entries. Birth dates starting at 1970 with the 10 year increments. Anyone could chip away at making additions of strong (c-class?) blue links from the country of their choice.Editors could start adding articles as they are written as part of "writing women into the encyclopedia". WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 19:26, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

• WomenArtistUpdates: The best way to start would probably be to add Category:21st-century women photographers to all those needing it in our various lists and in related categories for both men and women. It may even be worthwhile creating subcategories for women by nationality on the basis of those under Category:21st-century photographers by nationality. I'm afraid I'm not too optimistic about just creating a list for 21st-century photographers and hoping others will add to it. I still think the most important thing for now would be to update all our existing lists of women photographers.--Ipigott (talk) 12:15, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott I can understand you pessimism about editors contributing. I was mostly interested in creating a list for 21st century artists that would pick up where List of 20th-century women artists leaves off. It could just as easily be argued that in the 21st century we should no longer be making distinctions by gender. Cheers. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

• WomenArtistUpdates: I've just realized now you were suggesting a list of 21st-century women artists, not photographers. I fully support your suggestion in regard to artists and look forward to being able to contribute to the list. I apologize for not being careful enough in reading your suggestion. As we started discussing photographers, I confused the two. Thanks for getting back to me on this. I'm glad everything's now been sorted out. Sorry I sounded so pessimistic. In fact I enjoy compiling lists of women in various occupations. I'll certainly try to contribute to yours as it evolves.--Ipigott (talk) 16:24, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

OK Ipigott. I'll get started on a draft. I'll ping you when something relatively substantial gets posted. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:45, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Marian Calhoun Légaré Reeves

Hello, I recently created a draft for the 19th century writer Marian Calhoun Légaré Reeves as part of the WMFDC 100 Women project. I’ve had difficulty finding sourcing for her. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 21:20, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for participating in the contest! She's got an entry in Appleton's Cyclopedia, but it doesn't say much. One thing I do with older authors is do a full text search on the internet archive for their name, that will occasionally help me find biographical dictionaries and other works that discuss the author. I got a few hits that way, example: [7] [8] Gamaliel (talk) 21:44, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

And searching on "wearithorne" found this: Hayne, William H. (June 24, 1882). "Living American Authors: Three female authors of the south: Miss Reeves, Miss Fisher, Mrs Bryan". The American. IV (98): 166–167., which looks useful. PamD 22:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Thriley (talk) 00:52, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Venn diagram

Greetings,

For an article I was looking for a good Venn diagram constituting following five sets :

• Women
• Feminism
• Culture
• Religion
• Patriarchy

My quick google image search did not lead me to any relevant research. So by chance some one has come across a Venn diagram or may be can draw a venn diagram, then do help.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 09:32, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Booku, it's not really possible to draw a 5-set Venn diagram in a way that has the visual accessibility & symmetry of a 3-set Venn diagram: see some of the options here. (Also, what kind of things were you hoping to classify, i.e. would be elements in each of these sets?) Dsp13 (talk) 22:41, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Roberta Eike

The above draft could use some help from someone experienced in writing biographies of women scientists and researchers. --- Possibly (talk) 06:29, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Daisy Calhoun

Hi all, just created Daisy Calhoun, seems like there's some more to say, including the potentially notable Mothers' Memorial. Any help would be greatly appreciated-- particularly with searching under various maiden names and alternate spellings. Cheers Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:29, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Lulu G. Stillman

Hi all, I've just created Lulu G. Stillman and it feels like there might be more to say. Can anyone find anything? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:46, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

• Hey, so i threw in an infobox. Great work you did. --OtuNwachinemere (talk) 16:04, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
• Eddie891, I found this: Everett Commission and Supreme Court’s decision in Oklahoma (Dr. Robert Venables (retired professor of Native American Studies at Cornell), Onondaga Nation, 2020), which offers more detail about Stillman and the Everett report. Beccaynr (talk) 06:13, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Arora Akanksha

Arora Akanksha is being considered for deletion.

As potentially the first female to lead the UN, I thought I would bring this to the attention of the Women in Red community.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arora Akanksha until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.

I hope it's appropiate to ask for your support. Thank you! Qetuadgjzcbm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qetuadgjzcbm (talk • contribs) 21:38, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Keltie Ferris

Should the article on the artist Keltie Ferris be edited to use the non-gender specific "they" instead of "him/he"? Articles seem to switch back and forth. Thanks for any guidance. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I think MOS:GENDERID helps clarify with guidance to Refer to any person whose gender might be questioned with gendered words (e.g. pronouns, "man/woman", "waiter/waitress") that reflect the person's latest expressed gender self-identification as reported in the most recent reliable sources, even if it does not match what is most common in sources, and the first source linked in the article, (Mitchell-Innes & Nash, 2020-2021), begins with "Keltie Ferris is known for his mostly large-scale canvases covered with layers of spray paint and hand-painted geometric fields." The pronoun preference is clear in what appears to be a biography from Ferris. Also, the NYT on May 20, 2021, states: "Ferris’s ingeniousness, however, is more of a self-critical expansion of his own techniques than a gaze back at the canon, making his style resolutely one of a kind," which helps confirm "him/he." Beccaynr (talk) 04:37, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

It's important to show the "date retrieved" for online refs and update it when changing the article based on the ref - compare the archived version of that first ref, from 2018 as cited.PamD 05:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out - I had found the same source from an online search and noticed it was the same as the first citation, without noticing the access date, but I have updated it to match when I reviewed it. Beccaynr (talk) 05:23, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh, and how does this affect the categories? WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I made some changes to the categories that reflect my reasoning about the MOS and sources above. Beccaynr (talk) 04:42, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Beccaynr, Thank you for the guidance and for editing the article! PamD Thanks for the additional guidance. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:04, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

New redlist

I just put together User:Ezlev/Notable Women of Hawaii based on the table of contents of Notable Women of Hawaii. If there's somewhere it should be linked or moved to, please feel free to do that! I've placed a similar message to this one at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 03:42, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

@Ezlev: Thanks! I created a Wikidata redlist for your list. There's about fifty or so names not yet in Wikidata, but I'm going to continue to try to match them before I create blank items with nothing but a name, so the list will grow. Gamaliel (talk) 19:39, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Saman Aslam

This just fell on the slush pile. I can see quite a few news sources, but I'm not sure how to expand it sufficiently to avoid AfD. Can anyone help? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Mind your elders translate-a-thon

Ipigott & all: We previously had a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 93#Planning for a Mind your elders edit-a-thon. I have pretty much completed the list of citations, pertinent images, candidate citations, sister project links where appropriate, some DYK hooks, & etc. I have listed it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Ideas#Mind your elders & I would ask any discussion to happen there. Peaceray (talk) 04:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Peaceray: Forgive me for replying here but I thought it might be easier for others to comment on a suggestion I have, namely that we could combine this with our current contest on European women. As far as I can see from your list of centenarians, only one (the Filipino) would not qualify as even the American was born in Romania. If there are no objections, we could incorporate your redlist on the meetup page and hope there will be editors willing to create the corresponding articles over the next couple of weeks. I would be happy to contribute a few articles myself before the end of the month. Thanks for all the preparatory work you have done on this.--Ipigott (talk) 10:45, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

This seems fantastic to me—a built-in group of motivated folks. Innisfree987 (talk) 15:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

No discussion from me, just wow Peaceray; get a load of User:Peaceray/sandbox/Mind your elders. Amazing work. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Wow yes—I had not looked past the table of redlinks. The preparation of each entry is tremendous! I should think the Euro competition folks will be thrilled to seize on it. Might go by before a meet-up can even happen! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:28, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I am comfortable with however we can make this happen. I am here to collaborate! If we can start this as part of Women in Europe contest | Apr-May-June 2021, that would be great, although I would like to see a way of ensuring its continuation beyond the end of 2nd quarter 2021. Peaceray (talk) 16:45, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Peaceray, WOW! This is detailed and helpful - amazing work! Fingers crossed the rest of the Europe session covers pages for all these women! If it doesn't I'd definitely support having it as a monthly theme, either in July or later in the year. I'm sure I've seen a Wikidata constructed list of centenarians somewhere? Although, admittedly, not all are notable. Will try and join in with the Europe effort Lajmmoore (talk) 07:01, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

• Peaceray: On the basis of these reactions, I'll now integrate your redlist of centenarians in our June European contest page, giving related background. I'll also make an announcement on WiR's main page and bring it to the attention of the current competitors. I see no reason why we could not continue in July although it would be good to make as much progress as possible in June. You are of course welcome to alert any other editors you think might be interested, whether or not they wish to participate in the WiR contest. I'm glad to see your preparatory work has been so widely appreciated. It provides an excellent basis for similar development of redlinks on other topics.--Ipigott (talk) 09:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott, thank you for connecting those dots at that WiR contest. At some point I plan to move it somewhere under WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/; when I do that I will make sure all the links are updated appropriately. I am excited that Women in Europe contest | Apr-May-June 2021 can benefit from this! Peaceray (talk) 17:30, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Janet Malcolm

Sorry to say The New Yorker's Janet Malcolm has died. I’ve nominated at ITNRD; if anyone else is also interested in working on the entry, collaboration is very welcome! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:59, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

We briefly have gender parity on this section of the homepage. Thanks so much for everyone who’s been pitching in! Innisfree987 (talk) 10:15, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

But now we are back to five men, a dog, and no women. Ay. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:39, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Iqbalunnisa Hussain

Greetings,

Can some one pl. help confirm one 20th century South Asian author Iqbalunnisa Hussain is in the red lists.

I am myself already overstretched with existing many draft assignments yet to be completed, so looking for help.

Thanks & regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge' (talk) 11:34, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Nevada Women

Browsing the net regarding what is out there about Nevada women, there's a lot. For anyone who is interested in these sources, here's just a brief find:

• "Famed Washoe basket weaver among Nevada's influential Women of the Century". www.usatoday.com.
• "My Nevada 5: Changes Led by Silver State Women". University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
• "Women's History in Nevada – Nevada Magazine". nevadamagazine.com. March–April 2014.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: date format (link)
• National Organization for Women - Nevada Chapter
• Nevada Business Magazine - 2020 Women to Watch
• Nevada Commission for Women
• Nevada Women History Project
• Nevada Women's Philanthropy
• Nevada Women in Trades
• Women in Nevada History
• United Way of Sourthern Nevada Women United

There are a few USA states where finding online sourcing about historic women is like pulling teeth. But Nevada wants us to know about their women.

— Maile (talk) 22:22, 20 June 2021 (UTC)