Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2018-01-16/Interview

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Interesting to read and thanks for all your work over the years on articles in the arts and Women-in-Red. Jane (talk) 15:39, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@Jane023: You're very kind. It's always a pleasure looking up some obscure Dutch artist to find out that you've already created an article. :-) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:14, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks - I don't know if you have noticed, but the work on the most obscure artists is starting to pay off, thanks to Wikidata. More and more of those Wikipedia articles are illustrated with associated Commons categories and Creator templates and I expect some of the artist categories on Commons will grow further when "Structured Data on Commons" is up and running. I am hoping you will soon be able to translate some of your Wikipedia category work to reconciling triangular associations for Wikidata/Commons Creator/Commons Category on SDoC. Jane (talk) 14:56, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

@Jane023: I must confess, I don't spend a whole lot of time over at Wikidata. Glad to hear that it's coming along to a place where it can be integrated more firmly into articles. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 15:53, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Fortunate to learn the success and failures of these marvellous Wikipedians. I am very pleased and blessed to be with Wikipedia. I remember Ser Amantio di Nicolao has been an exceptional contributor to the Women in Red Project and I will take him as a role model in my Wikipedia career. Abishe (talk) 15:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@Abishe: You make me blush. Thanks very much for your kind words. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:25, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

VERY TELLING and thank you for your candorCoal town guy (talk) 15:44, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@Coal town guy: I quote the musical 1776: "Well, in all my years I ain't never heard, seen nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about." I'm a great believer in candor, wedded to tact. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:14, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

• You state " I think it's time we start seriously looking at bots to create some of the needed geographic articles. Species articles, too, but geographic especially.". I can only concur, certainly seeing the lack of so many species articles, numbering much more than 100,000. Doing all this manually takes a lot of painstaking effort. A bot would be indeed more than welcome. JoJan (talk) 17:50, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@JoJan: I know others have bandied the idea about off and on over the past few years; I mentioned Dr. Blofeld, and I know there are others. I hope that the bots in use on the Swedish Wikipedia and others would point the way to some of the issues that need to be resolved. And I do understand that there are issues...but there must be a way around them. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:08, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

I remember this being discussed or suggested at least once before. I suppose the only objection I would have, would be having to change the tagline to "the free online encyclopedia that anyone or anything can edit". ;) I enjoyed the interview.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:19, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mark Miller: Anything? Great - let me see if I can find a few rocks to throw at the keyboard, then. That would provide a...novel experience, shall we say. :-) Glad you enjoyed. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:35, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

I've always liked this one: "I was just reading that page and my mouse slipped and hit the edit button. Then I tripped and as I was falling I hit the keyboard and typed all that content. As I struggled to my feet I was pawing at the desk and the mouse came down and hit save." [Posted by Crossmr in December 2010 (diff).] – Athaenara ✉ 05:08, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

@Athaenara: Oh, that's nice - I'll have to remember it. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 06:23, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

First, let me note that I find it surprising that no one in this thread mentioned the first bot, Rambot. Maybe because it's been over 10 years since its last edit. Anyway, having made a series of semi-automated article creation/edits of Ethiopia articles, I can confirm that setting up the process isn't that difficult: IMHO, the secret is finding enough structured data to make the effort worth while. (Combining the material into articles can be done with a trivial script, & adding those articles to Wikipedia can be done with any number of existing bots -- or thru manual copy-&-paste.) When I did that for Ethiopian woredas (their name for local districts), I had the Ethiopian census of 1995 to work with, which allowed me to provide demographic information; however, I lacked other information, such as latitude/longitude info, or average elevations. And I was forced to create by hand details like lists of geographical features in the woreda such as towns/villages or rivers/streams, & the names of the neighboring woredas.

I'm thinking the need for structured data might be the primary barrier -- well, that & most of the people who like the idea not knowing how to go about doing this. Geographic articles obviously lend themselves to this, & IMHO given enough data to start with, one could conceivably use a bot to create start-level articles. However, I don't see how one could create useful species articles in this manner. (My own thought about species articles is that they aren't useful unless they explain how a given species is distinct from related ones, which many currently existing biology articles fail at.) It's a problem that I encounter writing biographical articles on Imperial Roman consuls: beyond a few stock pieces, almost every biography ends up lacking information that others have, or otherwise requiring direct work by an editor. -- llywrch (talk) 20:40, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

@Llywrch: Rambot has been mentioned off and on whenever I've had this discussion, if I remember aright. You're right about the barriers to article creation - I'd have coded some kind of bot by now to begin closing the gap, only I don't know where to begin. Data is the other question, of course, and it's one that I would love to open up to wider considerations. I know of a couple of sites that are likely candidates, but they'd surely need some vetting before being used as information sources. Regardless, it's a conversation I'd love to take beyond the embryonic stage.

As for species...there are enough databases that would allow for the creation of stubs such as "[X] is a(n) [animal/plant/otherwise slightly less than inanimate object]. It is a member of the [Y] family." That's not much shorter than many of our current species articles.

Fair point: I've always been of the opinion that a stub is better than none in situations like this, because it allows for expansion in a way that a redlink does not, being less forbidding. Again...it's a discussion that I'd like to see taken beyond the embryonic stage.

Besides which, we have the example of User:Lsjbot elsewhere to give us some ideas of what we want and what we might want to exclude. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 02:28, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

• They were the first editor to whom I gave a barnstar. Or rather, if I recall right, I had told Ser Amantio then that given their epic contributions, it seemed embarrassing to award them a tiny barnstar – so I awarded Ser Amantio to the barnstar family; basically, I created a new barnstar named after them :D Ser's the best! Lourdes 22:04, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@Lourdes: I remember it well - that's the second award named after me in my lifetime. Thanks very kindly for your kind words. :-) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 06:23, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

• As the President of The Ser Amantio di Nicolao Fan Club, I would like to Ser to confirm or deny the accusation that she/he/neutral pronoun doesn't need sleep. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐  ✉ 22:15, 17 January 2018 (UTC):{{

@Barbara (WVS): Oh, he (I?) does. Doesn't always get it, but that's a Rothko of a different color.

Also, where's my latest newsletter? I've been waiting balefully by the mailbox with no sign of it, and it's been a week... :-) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 02:20, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

• The best thing I can say, and I'm sure everyone will understand, is that Wikipedia can be a very intimidating experience. Ser Amantio di Nicolao is not intimidating, and quite the opposite. All edits of Ser Amantio di Nicolao has made Wikipedia a better encyclopedia, and never - not ever - did they treat other editors with disrespect. We could use a whole lot more editors like this. — Maile (talk) 23:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

@Maile66: *sniff* Sorry, must be something in my eye...

I remember something I read, once, in Opera News about the great Tatiana Troyanos. Here was a woman that had every right to complain at the Fates over her lot in life...she was abandoned by her parents to an orphanage, and she battled health issues for many years before dying of cancer at 55. (I remember reading that selfsame article about her and being amazed at what she had overcome.) And yet she remained ever gracious in her career and her professional dealings. The writer of the article, I remember, recalled assisting in a Metropolitan Opera performance of Giulio Cesare in Egitto, in which Kathleen Battle was singing. Battle was then in the throes of some of her worst behavior, and she was really letting people have it over trivial matters. And the writer said that when the curtain fell, he was about ready to tell her off, when he felt a tug at his elbow. It was Troyanos - she took him aside, smiled, and said, "Don't. It doesn't matter."

It can be so tempting to get wound up over the least little thing around here. But every time I do, somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind...so deep that I feel her presence rather than hear it...I'm sure Troyanos is reminding me, too: "It doesn't matter." If she, with all that she overcame, could say it, then I damn well can, too. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 02:43, 18 January 2018 (UTC)