Help talk:IPA/Mongolian

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There is a move discussion in progress on Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:17, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Wrong IPA

We think that this page has a few mistakes. IPA sounds are different. I'll edit the page when I'm free.--Ilfinocchiodoro (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Um, please make sure to read MOS:PRON#Other languages, know that we use broad phonetic transcription in these IPA keys, and present and explain your changes here before doing so. We would have to update 100+ transcriptions if the key was changed, so it better be for a good reason. Nardog (talk) 15:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

@Nardog I have corrected the page based on my own knowledge of the language, though I can provide sources if you insist. We were mostly missing things, though it was a major error to miss out the iotated vowels completely(!), and not have anything about the difference between single and double vowels, as they're both core aspects of the language. It was also nonsense to treat й as a consonant (obviously inferred from the romanization 'j', but it's only ever the second letter of a diphthong), and the pronunciation of щ was clearly inferred from Russian - though it's so rare we probably don't need to change any transcriptions. We also probably need a note to explain that single vowels outside of the first syllable are invariably pronounced as /ə/ outside of loanwords (and yes, that is phonemic - that reduction is a major feature of Mongolic languages). I've still left out some of the marginal diphthongs (which I might get round to adding at some point). Theknightwho (talk) 16:26, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Wrong IPA

I have come here to comment a similar issue to the one Ilfinocchiodoro noticed. Specifically, I came here to mention how the page says the close-mid front unrounded vowel, or /e/, is pronounced in the word bet and the long version of that vowel, or /eː/, is pronounced in the word bed. Both of these claims are incorrect, except I suppose if you are an Australian speaker for the first one. Also, on this vowel's page, it specifically says bed is pronounced /bed/ in Australian English and not /beːd/, though this page claims this word is pronounced /bed/ in general English, which is not true. In many (if not most) of the most prevalent English dialects, bed is pronounced /bɛd/. This is a very long-winded way of saying "bed" is usually pronounced /bɛd/ and not /beːd/, as this page says and that I would like an agreement that we should change this so that I may pursue. And Rotate (talk) 21:52, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

You're mistaking conventions for phonemic transcription for phonetic realizations. The DRESS vowel is typically midway between [e] and [ɛ] in most parts of North America and southern England. The key is using the difference in vowel duration that arises from pre-fortis clipping to illustrate the difference in vowel length in Mongolian, as most accents of English don't have robust vowel length contrasts and even in those that do, stress and clipping often have stronger effects on duration. That said, /e, eː/ in Mongolian appear to be close-mid rather than mid, so bate/bade are probably better approximations. Nardog (talk) 01:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)