Module talk:Sports table/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Sorting

Is sorting based on class_rules or is that just never used? 2014–15_BeNe_League#League_table does not sort first 3 places correctly. -Koppapa (talk) 06:47, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

I get it now. There is no sorting at all. Positions are set by team1=... and so on. -Koppapa (talk) 09:24, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct, I followed the standings on the BeNe League website, but it's easy enough to change. Hopefully you find the new format easy to understand and edit. CRwikiCA talk 13:50, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

An easy way to get around this confusion is to add comments in the table, such as <!-- Team positions --> above team1, team2 parameters and so on to explain what each section does and what the parameters are for (as many users dont read documentation). QED237 (talk) 14:31, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

That could be a solution yes. CRwikiCA talk 15:11, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Head-to-head results

@CRwikiCA: The documentation seems to indicate that notes entered in |hth_TTT= will appear in the points column, but nothing shows up in the example or in my sandbox. -- Jkudlick (talk) 17:58, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Something went wrong when implementing the option to create different styles of tables. I'll try to find the issue and let you know when it's fixed.CRwikiCA talk 19:01, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

@Jkudlick: I reverted the live version, so the functionality works now. I will resolve the issue in the sandbox and then bring it to the live version once it fully works. CRwikiCA talk 19:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I now resolved the issue and implemented it in the live version. CRwikiCA talk 19:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Awesome. Great work! -- Jkudlick (talk) 14:58, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

res_col_header

For res_col_header= can you also have Comments as per 2014–15 Ukrainian First League ? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 05:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

@Brudder Andrusha: Yes, see reply at WT:FOOTY:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Comments
1	FIFA World Cup Dream Team	5	5	0	0	10	0	+10	15	New

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

It can be customized that way, although you might want to indicate the new status with footnotes instead:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	FIFA World Cup Dream Team	5	5	0	0	10	0	+10	15	1974 FIFA World Cup
2	Team 2	5	3	1	1	3	2	+1	10
3	Team 3	5	3	0	2	3	3	0	9
4	Team 4	5	1	1	3	1	4	−3	4
5	Gibraltar	5	0	0	5	0	6	−6	0

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:
Notes:

I hope this answers your questions. CRwikiCA talk 15:17, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Passing parameters via template calls

Would it be possible to write the code to allow for parameter values to be passed via template call? I'm specifically thinking of |only_pld_pts=, which is presently coded so that a truncated table is displayed if called (even if no value is assigned). If you look at the UEFA Group Stage tables on the 2015 WWC qual article you can see that the tables are truncated to fit better in the article, but the tables are full size on the main UEFA article and on each of the group articles. Could the coding for |only_pld_pts= be changed to require a specific yes or true value to activate? If that can be done, would passing the value via the template call be possible, e.g. set |only_pld_pts={{{trunc}}} in the module and call {{2015 FIFA Women's World Cup Group A table|trunc=true}}? -- Jkudlick (talk) 12:38, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

@Jkudlick:This would be possible, do you want me to implement it for the group A to see whether my idea works? I think having values yes, y, true, t and 1 (independent of case) would catch all options, or should there be more options? CRwikiCA talk 15:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA:Those options should be enough. If you want to test it on Group A, I have no problem with that. -- Jkudlick (talk) 15:37, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

@Jkudlick: Done:

{{2015 FIFA Women's World Cup Group A table}}
{{2015 FIFA Women's World Cup Group A table|only_pld_pts=yes}}

I kept the same parameter name to keep it easier to follow if people end up reading the Lua code. CRwikiCA talk 17:29, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

• You rock! -- Jkudlick (talk) 17:33, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Last updated and source

I would be in favour of this being changed to <small> text, in line with some of the other templates used on football pages (I'm not aware for other sports), such as Template:Fb rs (footer is at Template:Fb rs footer). I don't know if there's any guidelines or policies on the use of small text here, but I'd be in favour of a change. - 97rob (talk) 17:51, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Using <small></small> in table footers is likely a violation of MOS:FONTSIZE, thus the reason the footers in the module are not as small as many editors are accustomed to. -- Jkudlick ^tc_s 18:28, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

The size was indeed brought up in one of the discussions leading up to the introduction of the module. It is now set at the user-defined reference list size, which has 90% as default. Some small text on Wikipedia does indeed seem to violate MOS:FONTSIZE. CRwikiCA talk 20:38, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

About other sports

As this module is called "Sports table", are you going to prepare it for other sports (e.g., deleting the draws column for basketball, different point criteria at rugby union or volleyball, etc)? Great job, btw. Asturkian (talk) 11:42, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

@Asturkian: That is the idea, when it has been rolled out to the football project and everything is working well (no errors) the plan is to spread the module to other sports as well. For example the table is currently called with |style=football but also |style=WL OT works (mainly as test) which is for tables without draw and has overtime wins (OTW) and overtime loss (OTL) instead (those names can be changed to i.e. shootout). The columns are decided in submodules (for example Module:Sports table/football or Module:Sports table/WL OT). I can give you example of thos kind of table.

For |style=football we get

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	FIFA World Cup Dream Team	5	5	0	0	10	0	+10	15
2	Team 2	5	3	1	1	3	2	+1	10
3	Team 3	5	3	0	2	3	3	0	9
4	DDD	5	1	1	3	1	4	−3	4
5	Team 4	5	0	0	5	0	6	−6	0

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

For |style=WL OT we get

Pos	Team	Pld	W	OTW	OTL	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	FIFA World Cup Dream Team	5	5	0	0	0	10	0	+10	15
2	Team 2	5	3	0	1	1	3	2	+1	10
3	Team 3	5	3	0	0	2	3	3	0	9
4	DDD	5	1	1	0	3	1	4	−3	5
5	Team 4	5	0	0	0	5	0	6	−6	0

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

So as you see there are already ways to make new tables and there is plan to expand, just taking it one step at the time and start at football to see if any issues comes up. QED237 (talk) 13:56, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

@Asturkian: When I have some time, I plan to generalize the documentation to make it easier for people to create sport specific versions. The module is created with sub-modules, so it should be relatively easy to change the columns (and their headings) for specific sports while keeping all the advanced options that are created by the core of the module. I don't think I have time for that until mid January, that should also lead to enough time to iron out the last issues that will come up from implementing the module in various football articles. One more major issues is to generally be able to switch between goals for/against/diff to points for/against/diff to reduce the need for a multitude of style modules that are almost identical. CRwikiCA talk 17:14, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Adjust points

@Jkudlick and LRD NO: Based on the December discussion I reworded |adjust_points_TTT= for points adjustments (while leaving the old startpoints option in, but removing it from the documentation). CRwikiCA talk 20:25, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Cheers, CR. Top work as always. LRD 22:57, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Great work. This is definitely more intuitive. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 01:34, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Exporting the template to other sports

I exported the module to the 2014–15 Primera División de Futsal article, league that works with the same pointing rules as in football. I don't know if you have a control of where is the module being used. Asturkian (talk) 09:39, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Also exported to handball at 2014–15 Liga ASOBAL as a first try. Maybe it would be good to ask to the handball editors if they'd like to use the new template at the competitions of this sport. Asturkian (talk) 15:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

In hindsight I should have named the football-style WDL for win/draw/loss (maybe I will still do that with football grandfathered in). The long term plan is indeed to add some other styles as well. CRwikiCA talk 16:34, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

"Source:" text 'on' by default

Why was it decided to have the "source:" text there by default? It would look better (in my opinion) if the source text only appeared if there was a citation in place. TheBigJagielka (talk) 15:06, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I guess it comes fro the league tables that were always sourced and honestly I see no reason for why it should not be. All statistics must be sourced, it is good practise. If not sourced tables might/should be removed as unsourced content. QED237 (talk) 15:18, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

The source text appears in combination with the {{citation needed}} template when no source is given. It is pretty much a given that any table without sources can be very easily challenged, so per WP:PROVEIT the citation needed tag is added automatically as a friendly reminder. CRwikiCA talk 15:35, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Goal average

Football leagues used to use goal average instead of goal difference (see 1965–66 Bundesliga). Goal average is calculated by dividing goals for by goals against. Is there a way to implement this in these tables? EddieV2003 (talk) 02:45, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@EddieV2003: I'll add it to my to-do list and will let you know when it's functional. CRwikiCA talk 15:19, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@EddieV2003: This is now implemented, use |use_goal_ratio=yes to display a goal ratio rather than goal difference. CRwikiCA talk 20:04, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

First try for basketball

I made in a sandbox a first try of the module for basketball (and sports without ties) purposes here: Module:Sports table/WL/sandbox and its results are at the moment in my sandbox. The only problem I have is I can't convert GF and GA into PF and PA (and maybe it would be better to show points by default). For this table I established by default 2 points per win and one point per less, like it is written in FIBA rules. If you don't agree with it, please delete it. Asturkian (talk) 15:19, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The other table I want to do for basketball is for competitions that don't use points and only work with wins and losses like, e.g., 2014–15 Euroleague, 2014–15 Eurocup Basketball and Spanish 2014–15 ACB season, without points column and bolding the number of wins but this seems too complicated for me. Asturkian (talk) 15:19, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: It seems fine to me, I fixed the points for/against/difference issues and it displays fine now on your sandbox. I will extend this module to be able to bold wins (and no points), to use win percentage instead of points and to be able to show games behind. It is on my to do list, but there are a couple of other things on there as well. I moved this style live as well. CRwikiCA talk 15:44, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: BTW, is there any possibility to delete the "Qualification or relegation" column? Asturkian (talk) 16:26, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: That column is automatically removed when no "resultN"-parameter is used (N is position). HAve you found a place where is is not needed?. QED237 (talk) 17:30, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: Yes, but it doesn't color the row. In example, for competitions of a lot of groups, like UEFA Europa League, could be better and less redundant than showing always "Qualified to the next stage". BTW, instead of the dash it could be better in the matches table to color it in grey like in {{fb r|r=null}} Asturkian (talk) 13:38, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: I find that a grey box is more visually distracting in the match table, because it visually draws your eyes to that rather than the actual match scores. Colour should not be the only identifier of a table cell/row per MOS:COLOR. You can always use |splitN= if you want a different option to create a break in the table. CRwikiCA talk 15:23, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: I get the idea it might be redundant, but we should not only use color to explain things but we must also used informative text (readers might be colorblind) and also in EL case (and many others) just must also think about the fact that the table is used on many other pages where it is only one table (for example on the teams individual pages). About the grey color I must say I am torn, it might also be good to have grey together with the dash to say, it is impossible for the teams to meet. QED237 (talk) 15:29, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

This is what it looks like now in table format:

Home \ Away	A	B	C	D	E
Team A	—	2–1	1–0	1–0	1–2
Team B	2–1	—	1–0	1–0	1–2
Team C	2–1	1–0	—	1–0	1–2
Team D	2–1	2–1	1–0	—	1–2
Team E	2–1	1–0	1–0	1–2	—

What would be the exact suggested change, and what would it look like (it's easy to change some of the style parameters)? CRwikiCA talk 18:21, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

	MFF	JSIF	AFF	HFF
Malmö FF	—	vs	vs
Jönköpings Södra IF		—	vs
Assyriska FF			—	vs
Hudiksvalls FF	vs	vs		—

@CRwikiCA: This was how 2014–15 Svenska Cupen looked next to standings table before I added the new module. It made dark background as well as the dash on the diagonal and dark areas on matches not played. I dont know if this is the best or what is best. On the template based result-tables it is grey on those boxes you set "null" (look at 2014–15 Premier League#Results table) and that is done when teams can not meet eachother. Maybe this should even be discussed on WT:FOOTY. QED237 (talk) 23:58, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: @Qed237: I like how it works currently with the "Fb r" templates. It would be a good idea to have the possibility of creating "null" games if only one leg is played in the group like, e.g. in the 2014–15 UEFA Women's Champions League#Qualifying round. Anyway, simply with having a darker color in the games not played as Qed237 suggests would be enough for me. Asturkian (talk) 07:13, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: I implemented some changes into the WL style (and will do some more). I haven't created proper documentation, but |ranking_style=wins would highlight the win column (and omit the pts column). Using |ranking_style=percentage would replace the points column with a percentage column instead. It also changes the hth note to the win column instead of the points column for tiebreakers. CRwikiCA talk 18:08, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian and Qed237: The games behind functionality is implemented now as well (documentation will still need to follow). Is having losspoints default to |losspoints=1 the logical choice though? We should probably have the shading of the match table in a separate discussion. As always with these updates, watch out for bugs flying around. CRwikiCA talk 21:15, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: It is perfect as it is now. GB depends on the leader's games as it says in the GB article. BTW, really this concept is rarely used out of the USA. Asturkian (talk) 21:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: Very well, we'll leave it as is, the losspoints can always be adjusted for individual tables. I have only seen the GB used in the USA, but I figured it should be included for completeness to give this style even more versatility. CRwikiCA talk 15:15, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

GF-GA-GD columns

Could it be made possible to totally omit the GF-GA-GD columns. Would be good for this match racing table: User:Smartskaft/sandbox. // Smartskaft (talk) 16:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

@Smartskaft: I implemented this for the WL style and added it to your sandbox tables. It can be done by setting |for_against_style=none. CRwikiCA talk 20:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: Thank you very much. // Smartskaft (talk) 22:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Showing team and templates

Hi, people. Could it be possible to keep the option of showing any team without creating a new template for the table? E.g., in 2014–15 Segunda División B I changed the tables for the new modules, but the showteam option is not available for these, for adding in the team season articles there are of three teams of the league. If possible, I don't want to create templates for the tables. Asturkian (talk) 11:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: You can still use the |showteam= in those cases outside of the template, e.g.:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	Gimnàstic	22	12	6	4	23	13	+10	42	Qualification to group champions' playoffs
2	Lleida Esportiu	22	11	5	6	31	20	+11	38	Qualification to promotion playoffs
3	Huracán Valencia	22	9	10	3	23	16	+7	37
4	Hércules	22	9	8	5	23	14	+9	35
5	L'Hospitalet	22	9	7	6	26	18	+8	34	Qualification to Copa del Rey

Updated to match(es) played on 25 January 2015. Source: Futbolme.com
Rules for classification: 1) points; 2) goal difference; 3) number of goals scored

All template functionality can be called/used without putting the table in a template. CRwikiCA talk 15:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: So, it seems the editor must copy every week all the table for using the template. Thank you for the information. Asturkian (talk) 18:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: Yes, either have the table in a template, or copy the relevant parts to the team articles where applicable. CRwikiCA talk 19:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

It is always best to use a template if a table is used on more than one place (at least in myh opinion). QED237 (talk) 13:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I have to agree that a template for the table is best if it is going to be referenced on multiple pages, especially league tables. This way, the information is updated in one location and is immediately transcluded to the appropriate pages. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 00:23, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Beach soccer

Moved from Module talk:Sports table/WDL

 – Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: Would it be possible to add an option to change the headers for beach soccer to W, W+, L instead of the default? Looking at the code, it seems as simple as adding an option for |beach=yes, y, true, t, 1, then when creating the header, adding a simple If..Then..Else statement. I was about to being working on FIFA Beach Soccer World Cup when I noticed that they have no draws in beach soccer. |draw_TTT= doesn't need to change, and I know we can easily set |draw_points=2, but the header is the visual element that would need to change.

I'd do it, but I'm not comfortable enough in Lua to make changes without thinking I'll break it. I know I can simply revert, but I'd still rather not possibly break dozens of articles and templates, no matter how temporary. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 13:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

@Jkudlick: I would prefer to create an option to overwrite the draw column header instead with a custom header, that would reduce the clutter in the Lua-code and be a more versatile solution. I have also toyed with the idea of renaming the football style WDL, to give it a more generalized function (not every sport needs their own style, it should depend on the match result options). Would such a solution work in your eyes? CRwikiCA talk 16:33, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Versatility is why the module was created, right? I like your option to be able to create custom headers. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 16:52, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

@Jkudlick:I added the option |draw_header= to adjust this, example:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	W+	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

That will work perfectly! Thanks! — Jkudlick ^tc_s 19:38, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: And of course, FIFA has to go and complicate it this year with a 3-2-1-0 point structure (Regulation Win-AET Win-PKSO Win-Loss). All previous World Cups were the standard 3-2-0 point structure used in beach soccer (Regulation Win-AET/PKSO Win-Loss). I was about to change the tables in 2015 FIFA Beach Soccer World Cup when I noticed the change. I'll look at WL OT to see if that could be used. *sigh* — Jkudlick ^tc_s 13:24, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

A similar change could probably be made there to accomplish that. :) CRwikiCA talk 21:16, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

2015 FIFA Beach Soccer World Cup

Moved from Module talk:Sports table/WL OT

 – Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: Might I impose upon you to perform the same magic here that you performed on the "Football" sub-module? My most sincere apologies for the request, but FIFA (many expletives left out of this statement) had to "improve" the system. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 13:38, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

I hope I can get to that soon, today my time is limited unfortunately... CRwikiCA talk 21:18, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

No rush. The tournament doesn't start until July. :) — Jkudlick ^tc_s 21:45, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

@Jkudlick and Qed237: I brought this style fully up-to-date with all the new features, including the custom OTW and OTL headers to make it more versatile. This could be used directly for European hockey competition I think (assuming consensus etc), the American leagues might need a style of their own, depending on the exact desires for their formatting. CRwikiCA talk 21:37, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks good. I'll play in my sandbox for a bit before using it in the article. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 01:52, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Customising OTW and OTL headers

Moved from Module talk:Sports table/WL OT

 – Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I want to use this table for a competition that had penalty wins (PW) and penalty losses (PL). How do I change OTW/OTL to PW/PL? Hack (talk) 06:15, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

@Hack: use

{{#invoke:Sports table|main|style=WL OT
|OTwin_header=<abbr title="Won after penalties">PW</abbr>
|OTloss_header=<abbr title="Lost after penalties">PL</abbr>
}}

To get:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	PW	PL	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

CRwikiCA talk 15:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Great, thanks for that. Hack (talk) 16:00, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Hide "results column header" through template parse

Can it be done? I couldn't seen an option to hide it. I only want to hide that column, and keep the match_results.

This is how it looks at the moment for the 2017 tournament qualification page using your template:

{{2017 UEFA European Under-21 Championship qualification Group 1 |only_pld_pts=no |show_matches=yes}}

This is how it looked for the 2015 equivalent using the old template:

{{2015 UEFA European Under-21 Championship qualification Group 1 |expanded=yes |fixtures=yes}}

On the page 2017 UEFA European Under-21 Championship qualification, the show_matches will be passed through the template.

I don't think it'll look right once the fixture dates are announced and put into the results table on the right hand side. I'd like an option to hide the 'results column header' when calling the template but I can't seem to find one. Is it possible to have an option similar to 'show_matches=' such as 'show_results_column_header='? TheBigJagielka (talk) 12:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

@TheBigJagielka:. The column has been discussed on several occasions and will most likely not be removed or be able to remove. This because MOS guidelines states that readers may be colorblind so we should not use only color to describe qualifications (which is why column is added). If you want you can try reading in WT:FOOTY archives and/or opening a new discussion at WT:FOOTY regarding this. Is there any other thing you want to have changed? Any suggestions are welcome. I have myself considered asking for change to the matches section as this should also be used for example at 2014–15 Arsenal F.C. season#Results where there are grey boxes on diagonal when teams cant meet themselves instead of current dash.

In the new format it would be

Home \ Away	A	B	C	D	E
Team A	—	2–1	1–0	1–0	1–2
Team B	2–1	—	1–0	1–0	1–2
Team C	2–1	1–0	—	1–0	1–2
Team D	2–1	2–1	1–0	—	1–2
Team E	2–1	1–0	1–0	1–2	—

While old Svenska cupen looked like

	MFF	JSIF	AFF	HFF
Malmö FF	—	vs	vs
Jönköpings Södra IF		—	vs
Assyriska FF			—	vs
Hudiksvalls FF	vs	vs		—

And as I siad there was grey boxes on diagonal for regular articles so I am considering an own discussion about this. QED237 (talk) 13:05, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

That makes sense. I was comparing it to the 2015 U21 competition and it looked vastly different. Had I looked at the Euro 2016 table template. I'd have realised that the column was in use there. I just wanted it to match what was already in place. :)

The only suggestion to the code I have is adding a "sortable" attribute to the table header on Module:Sports table/WDL to sort columns but I know some people don't like the idea. It took me a while to get used to but I prefer the format of this module to the old table template method.

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	Team A	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Result outcome 1
2	Team B	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Result outcome 2
3	Team C	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
4	Team D	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
5	Team E	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
6	Team F	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

First match(es) will be played: unknown. Source:

The non-code suggestion I have is to have a 'blank template' (similar to above) put into the Module:Sports table/WDL/doc file. I've added this module to several pages and it's become a bit of a nuisance having to alter what's already there (pre-existing totals etc). I'd like a next to empty template to copy and paste and make changes from that point onwards.TheBigJagielka (talk) 16:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

A sortable option should be switchable if implemented (defaulting to off). It should then be left to editors for individual articles whether to include that or not. I also see the point of a tool to create the core of the tables. I am relatively busy the next two weeks. But after that I can probably cook something up. CRwikiCA talk 19:00, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

I am one of those not seeing why you should be able to sort a standings table. I can understand other stats tables like scorers in a club season article becuase then you may want to sort after competition to see who scored most in league, cup and so on but a standings table is standings they are ordered in the order teams are positioned. No need to sort a standings table. About the blank template I totally agree, I will look at it tomorrow and see if I can set it up. Should it be with win_AAA or just win_? if I add AAA then it is easy with "find and replace" but empty is easier if editors want to write team everywhere themselves. QED237 (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

For the exact same reason you think scoring tables should be sortable. You might want to see what team scored the most goals, had the most goals scored against them, who has the most wins (in some sports that isn't the first place team), what team has the best/worst winning percentage (not always exactly the same as the standings order) and so on and so forth. In many sports that is one of the most important aspects of a standings table. -DJSasso (talk) 13:22, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

@Djsasso: So it would be best if a sortable option can be turned on in general for all styles (which defaults to off)? CRwikiCA talk 14:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

But why sort a standings table? They are what they are, STANDINGS, and those should never be reordered. Also if you want to see who scored most goals it is not that hard, you dont have to sort table for that. QED237 (talk) 15:00, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Because standings are more than just the place a team is in. Maybe they don't do it in the sports you follow, but in the sports I follow they often talk about the rank of teams in various stats which is a form of standings. You just have to go to any website that does hockey standings and most will be sortable. I assume its true for more than just hockey. Users will expect to be able to sort the columns. Removing sortability takes away a large part of the function of the table. I sort standings tables almost every time I look at them. -DJSasso (talk) 15:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA I personally would have it the default as on, I can't imagine a time when you wouldn't want to allow a user choice. But as long as there is the ability to turn it on I am happy. -DJSasso (talk) 15:21, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

When there there are lots of teams such as in the Template:2014–15_Premier_League_table, I think the sortable option is quite useful, not so much when there's only three or four teams. As for the blank template, I prefer the 'AAA' option so I can 'find and replace' using notepad++. TheBigJagielka (talk) 11:09, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

@TheBigJagielka:, sorry it took so long, I have been busy. What do you think about User:Qed237/sandbox#Empty table? I was thinking about how much info to add with comments and other info and thought I could add and then editors can remove. Is it to much or would it work? Feel free to edit it until you feel it is okay. QED237 (talk) 16:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: It looks good to me. TheBigJagielka (talk) 23:11, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

"for_against_style" stopped working

This parameter stopped working and in all tables now appear Goals for, goals against and goal difference instead of points (e.g.). Asturkian (talk) 19:41, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: Do you have a quick example? And did you just notice it? CRwikiCA talk 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: E.g., at 2014–15 ACB season#League table, where "for_against_style=points" is written and is not shown. Asturkian (talk) 19:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: It should be fixed now, an IP added a frame option which overwrote the point option. CRwikiCA talk 20:03, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Confusion due to use of colour

I like the unified colour scheme, which makes a great deal of sense, but I don't believe it should be applied to all columns of the table from the start - I think only the final "Qualification" column should be coloured until a team actually secures their place. The addition of letters to identify whether a team has qualified or not is confusing and I can't see how this makes things clearer for the reader. For example, I believe the table here would be much clearer if only the "Qualification" column of the 2nd place row was coloured light blue because I believe the current format could confuse many people into thinking that Slovenia had already secured that place - that was the case when I first looked at it. I'd also be in favour of colouring eliminated nations red while the tournament was in progress because again I believe this is much easier to understand than the bracketed letter E after their name. There's a similar issue with 2015_AFC_Champions_League - to me displaying the tables like this suggests that the teams coloured green have already progressed. There are numerous similar dissenting comments on other articles such as 2014/15 UEFA Champions League: Talk.

Below is an example of what I mean - I'm not a big html expert so I've just tweaked the first table I could find that didn't use the new template.

At the start of the season the table would look like this.

{{Fb cl header }}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=1 |t=[[FC Pyunik|Pyunik]]|w=1|d=0 |l=0 |gf=4|ga=0}}
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=1 |competition=[[2011–12 UEFA Champions League#Second qualifying round|2011–12 UEFA Champions League Second qualifying round]]|bc=#D0F0C0}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=2 |t=[[FC Banants|Banants]]|w=1|d=0 |l=0 |gf=3|ga=0}}
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=2 |competition=[[2011–12 UEFA Europa League#First qualifying round|2011–12 UEFA Europa League First qualifying round]]|bc=#BBEBFF}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=3 |t=[[Ulisses FC|Ulisses]]|w=1|d=0 |l=0 |gf=2|ga=0}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=4 |t=[[FC Mika|Mika]]|w=1|d=0 |l=0|gf=1|ga=0}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=5 |t=[[F.C. Impulse|Impulse]]|w=0|d=0 |l=1|gf=0|ga=1}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=6 |t=[[Gandzasar Kapan FC|Gandzasar Kapan]]|w=0 |d=0 |l=1|gf=0|ga=2}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=7 |t=[[Kilikia F.C.|Kilikia]]|w=0 |d=0 |l=1|gf=0|ga=3}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=8 |t=[[FC Shirak|Shirak]]|w=0 |d=0 |l=1|gf=0|ga=4}}
{{Fb cl footer |season_over=no |s=[http://www.ffa.am/en/competitions/armeniapremierleague/2010/ffa.am]}}

Later in the season, it might look something like this.

{{Fb cl header }}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=1 |t=[[FC Pyunik|Pyunik]]|w=20|d=0 |l=0 |gf=100|ga=0|bc=#D0F0C0|champion=y}}
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=1 |competition=[[2011–12 UEFA Champions League#Second qualifying round|2011–12 UEFA Champions League Second qualifying round]]|bc=#D0F0C0}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=2 |t=[[FC Banants|Banants]]|w=10|d=5 |l=5 |gf=30|ga=10}}
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=2 |competition=[[2011–12 UEFA Europa League#First qualifying round|2011–12 UEFA Europa League First qualifying round]]|bc=#BBEBFF}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=3 |t=[[Ulisses FC|Ulisses]]|w=10|d=5 |l=5 |gf=20|ga=10}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=4 |t=[[FC Mika|Mika]]|w=10|d=5 |l=5|gf=15|ga=10|bc=#BBEBFF}}
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=1 |competition=[[2011–12 UEFA Europa League#Second qualifying round|2011–12 UEFA Europa League Second qualifying round]]|nt=1|bc=#BBEBFF}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=5 |t=[[F.C. Impulse|Impulse]]|w=5|d=5 |l=10|gf=10|ga=15}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=6 |t=[[Gandzasar Kapan FC|Gandzasar Kapan]]|w=5 |d=5 |l=10|gf=10|ga=20}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=7 |t=[[Kilikia F.C.|Kilikia]]|w=5 |d=5 |l=10|gf=10|ga=30}}
{{Fb cl2 team |p=8 |t=[[FC Shirak|Shirak]]|w=0 |d=0 |l=20|gf=0|ga=100}}
{{Fb cl footer |season_over=no |s=[http://www.ffa.am/en/competitions/armeniapremierleague/2010/ffa.am] |nt=<sup>1</sup>Winners of [[2011 Armenian Cup]].}}

This seems to me to be a better option than the current mixture of colours and letters, particularly for small groups/leagues such as those found in the Champions League and World Cup qualifying. If people don't find that appropriate for domestic league competitions, then I'd argue that there's a case for having a slightly different template for group stages of knockout cup competitions. Craig1989 (talk) 00:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

It is most confusing when there is no standard, like in the old setup with differences between leagues and groups. In my opinion there is no reason why there should be a difference there, because that makes things confusing for people reading both styles of articles. I understand there is an adjustment period with the new module, but to go back and recreate a difference does not seem right to me. Whatever would change should apply equally, regardless of the type of table. CRwikiCA talk 14:19, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

If that's the consensus on different table formats then fair enough, but what about the overall adjustment I suggested? It's just a minor tweak on the new module which I think might be helpful in avoiding confusion. I think the use of letters on the table should be kept to a minimum - perhaps just (C) for Champions, (P) for Promoted and (R) for relegated. When you start having various letters for "Eliminated", "Advances to further Round", "Will finish at least 2nd but not assured of advancing", "Only able to qualify for play-offs", "Qualified for play-offs but may still qualify directly" then the whole thing becomes a lot less intuitive, particularly if one team has more than one letter.

Different wikiprojects might prefer different formats. Since you are interest in football tables, you could probably best take this discussion to WT:Footy with some more details. CRwikiCA talk 17:03, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

My issue with the tables isn't specific to football, which is why I felt it was more appropriate here. I'm not a regular editor of Wikipedia - I just want to get involved on a subject that I feel strongly about - so I don't really know how all these various pages operate. I gave an example of a potential tweak to this module which I think might improve the clarity of the module across all sports, so putting it on a football discussion page would miss out on a fairly large chunk of the module users. However, if you still think it's more appropriate to put something there then I will.Craig1989 (talk) 00:27, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

You won't find to many people responding here, and different sports have different usages, the module is mostly a wrapper to allow a wide variety of formatting options. Split colours for a line is currently not implemented, but it could be left blank (with what the position qualifies for) until a certain stage is reached. Letters can easily be left out as well. But what would be most appropriate for football articles would need to be discussed on WT:FOOTY. I would be open to a variety of ideas, as long as leagues and groups would be treated the same. CRwikiCA talk 18:46, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Problem with positions

Hi again. I see there is a problem with the module here and here. These sections start counting positions not from the first and because of that, teams are not shown. Is there any possibility to fix it? Asturkian (talk) 20:26, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian: What you can do at the moment is to use the pos-parameter for every team, for example pos_TTT=12 if team with shortening TTT has position 12. Perhaps it is possible to add a startpos parameter but that has not been implemented. @CRwikiCA: what would you say about a parameter that can be used as a startvalue for team positions? For example startposition=11 and then the positions are given as 11,12,13 and so on? 11:21, 7 April 2015 (UTC)QED237 (talk)

That might work indeed, to start counting from a different number. CRwikiCA talk 15:50, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@Asturkian and Qed237: Using |highest_pos=N solves this now, as I implemented for those examples you quoted. CRwikiCA talk 18:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Statusletters on league tables

On many league tables there has now been some questions what letter to use when teams have secured at least "playoff" to higher level league but is currently on direct promotion spot, but also in tables were teams have qualified for some sort of european competition but not decided if CL or EL. What are the appropriate statusletters for this? should we use statusletter for those occasions? I know last season in England the letters were not used until it was clear. Should T be used or should we have new letters with better explanation? QED237 (talk) 11:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: what do you think? QED237 (talk) 11:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: I don't know whether there is a perfect answer for this. There are the X, Y and Z wildcard letters for the WDL-style which can be used in this case, I think. Is there an active talk page discussion somewhere? CRwikiCA talk 15:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: No discussion, just a question on my talkpage after some reverting on the english tables. QED237 (talk) 20:55, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: Okay, there are the wildcard letters available, when default text is not sufficiently clear. That might be the best option. CRwikiCA talk 15:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

I did change {{2014–15 Eredivisie table}} to use the wildcard letters instead. That should clarify what is going on. CRwikiCA talk 16:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237:, I'm fine with the use of wildcard letters (X, Y, Z) for teams that have qualified for playoffs and yet may also be promoted as champions. Cheers. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 16:50, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: There needs to be some indicator that a club has at least qualified for the playoffs. It doesn't matter at all what that indicator is, or if that club can still qualify for something better, but ignoring the fact that a club is certain to make the playoffs is poor. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:02, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm at a total loss as to why an 'X' is considered better than a 'Q' when they perform exactly the same function. The presence of a 'Q' and the lack of a 'P' for promoted explains the situation perfectly for all but the most challenged readers, I suspect. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Q is "Qualified to the phase indicated", if a team is at a promotion spot "the phase indicated" is promotion but they have not secured promotion. QED237 (talk) 17:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

That's why we have 'TQ'. In any case, I'd say it was very obvious if promotion hadn't been secured due to the lack of a 'P'. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:29, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

On a similar note, could there be preference to have these letters show up before the team names? like x–AAA? Another option is using asterisks or other symbols such as daggers †? –HTD 11:40, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck: This option exists, call |status_pos=before in the module call as seen in {{2014–15 NHL Central Division standings}}. CRwikiCA talk 14:07, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The alternative is to use the standard footnote structure that can be used after the team name (the symbols are letters then). CRwikiCA talk 14:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes eventually the alternative footnote structure would have to be used in the end in this regard. How about asterisks and daggers? –HTD 15:05, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Because numbering etc is all done automatically for footnotes one of the sets of WP:EXPLNOTE would have to be used in the current existing footnote structure (lower-alpha is currently used). The current TTT (X) might be used to incorporate none letter symbols as well for selected styles, but it would need to be tested to see how that would hold up. Is there a particular reason you would want to use these symbols? CRwikiCA talk 15:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The dagger (†) is used prominently in US NCAA basketball standing tables. See 2014–15 Big East Conference men's basketball season and its sister articles. It's been in use for such a long time. I dunno where asterisks are used to denote something else other than footnotes, though. If this would ever get to have universal use it would have to be flexible enough to be accepted by every sports WikiProject. –HTD 16:20, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Those standings are a bit of an oddity anyway, because it uses a smaller font (for whatever reason?), and the style of the table is completely different (no lines, etc). I see other US college sports use a similar format. It beats me why the most important content of the page is reduced in size (it also seems to violate MOS:ACCESS). I would, however, think that the editors who edit those articles have a strong opinion about keeping that format. Outside of the US college sport tables anomaly, do other tables use the dagger? CRwikiCA talk 18:58, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

AFAIK there aren't any other leagues that use daggers. Other American leagues use x, y and z. –HTD 09:46, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I think converting American college tables would take some extensive discussions, because the format is so different. So I don't know whether it is worth it to include that at this point. CRwikiCA talk 14:57, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes but it could be a project somewhere down the road. The tables are quite different, but could be done on this format. It's basically two "simple" tables together: one for conference opponents and one for all opponents. Basketball uses PCT but football ones don't (just straight up wins and losses). College basketball usually includes all teams in the conference playoffs, where the winner gets the "dagger"; in this case the playoff qualification colors aren't needed since everyone gets in, unless you're going to denote byes. College football usually makes the team at the top of the table the conference champion, unless it is divided into divisions where the two division winners play off for the conference championship. We could use the playoff qualification colors (or letters) as well. –HTD 15:09, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

It's not hard technically, the issue will probably to find consensus with the editors of those articles, because they might not be willing to make such wholesale changes. If they are, then it would be easy to move forward. CRwikiCA talk 16:01, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

While I'll probably wait for their tables to look like everybody else's it's always handy to have these features working just in case... –HTD 17:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Having a dual W-L style (conference and overall) is feasible. I would base that on the current WL style then (so maybe without the dagger for now, if footnotes/status letters work). CRwikiCA talk 19:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Tiebreaker column/s

Is this in the pipeline? I've noticed that tiebreaks are denoted by footnotes but this could be unwieldy if the process is particularly complex one. I'd also particularly like to limit footnotes to point deductions, withdrawals and other rare events. –HTD 13:19, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm agree with you. Footnotes are for rare events. When in an article there is a results table and also the rules for tiebreaking in a footnote, I don't see the need to add a footnote explaining the tiebreak. Asturkian (talk) 13:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Currently only the WL OTL tiebreak style contains a tiebreak column. Is there a particular example you have in mind with this? Footnotes can be placed in various places, some tiebreak columns sometimes get unwieldy. But an example might clear things up a bit. CRwikiCA talk 15:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I particularly liked the system used on La Liga season pages before. There, the first tiebreaker was head-to-head points and not GD so they used a separate column for tiebreakers. There are some instances were you'd need multiple columns, or cram everything into one tiebreaker column. I was going to cite a tournament where the tie was broken on the final criterion: overall goal average but I can't find it.

Honestly I'm on the fence on "tiebreaker columns" as tiebreakers are not usually denoted this way. Either they're totally left out, or is at the bottom of the table (but not via footnotes). What I like about them is that they're pretty straightforward and you wouldn't have to scroll up and down unlike footnotes/notes. Plus the fact I'd reserve footnotes on something more important. –HTD 15:23, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

When consensus was formed to implement these tables for football articles, the vote was to use footnotes to indicate how ties were broken if necessary instead of having a separate (mostly empty) column. (Archived discussion with unanimous support). CRwikiCA talk 16:05, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, WP:CCC, but that's football. There are supposedly many other sports that would be using this module, so I dunno how a discussion solely by football enthusiasts would be binding to rugby or hockey followers. Either way, it's a good bet that these templates were, for a lack of a better word, imposed on these articles (just as what we've been doing nowadays), and people just kinda liked it, were indifferent, or those who didn't, supporters would just point out the discussion with uninamous support that most people hadn't heard about until now.... so no more chance for a change because the same people would come out and say "UNANIMOUS SUPPORT BRO, JUST DEAL WITH IT."

(Don't think that itself was wrong; there was no chance every football Wikipedian enthusiast would've heard of a discussion happening somewhere, and that a, for lack of a better word again, clique would do whatever it takes to impose what they've agreed upon because no one likes another round of discussion that could amend or undo, no matter how little the chances are, the changes. I did the same thing for basketball articles for the old standings template with a separate "tiebreaker column", and no one that I knew started a discussion to change it. This is unlike to say, what happened at Talk:2015 AFC Asian Cup#Remove superfluous info.) –HTD 17:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a problem adding the option to add a switchable tiebreaker column (off by default) to some of the styles. It is up to individual table editors or wikiprojects to determine in which cases (if any) those should be used. CRwikiCA talk 19:07, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

2015 IIHF World Championship

This new table system is complicated. I would like to return to the old one. (at least at 2015 IIHF World Championship)
Maiō T. (talk) 17:34, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

@Maiō T.: What is complicated? Can you please be a bit more constructive? Maybe we can help. QED237 (talk) 22:56, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

If somebody doesn't know, there is/was disscusion here. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:03, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Every team must be written 9 times: team1=SWE, win_SWE, OTwin_SWE, OTloss_SWE, loss_SWE, gf_SWE, ga_SWE, name_SWE={{ih|SWE}}. I just want a simple table, like 2014 IIHF World Championship#Group A. Maiō T. (talk) 15:14, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

But you can simply update the numbers for wins, losses, GF etc., and update the team positions, if they have changed. You don't need to make some updates in |name_SWE= field. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 15:34, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

There are differences between the data input and the way things are displayed. Initial set-up for the data is a bit more complicated, but you only need to change individual numbers in the same way as in the old tables. The way the table is displayed is highly customizable, and independent of the table input. Are there any specific things that you would like to see different? CRwikiCA talk 14:35, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

@CRwikiCA: Yes - we want border lines instead of bgcolor - see Talk:2015 IIHF World Championship#Tables. Maiō T. (talk) 22:00, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

@Maiō T.: I don't see consensus for that and that seems to violate WP:COLOR. The objections is that wording is awkward in the table, maybe there is a better wording that makes it clear that a position gives the right to the next round rather than the the team has qualified for it already. CRwikiCA talk 16:10, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Proposal

Propose using Module:Yesno instead of such code:

show_matches_val=='y' or show_matches_val=='yes' or show_matches_val=='t' or show_matches_val=='true' or show_matches_val=='1'

--Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:17, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

And maybe this module could replace these two: Module:MLB standings and Module:IndianPremierLeague/GroupStageTable (and see other pages under Module:IndianPremierLeague). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:03, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I like the idea of the MLB template for the parameters showing |57|23|18|12| instead of win_XXX=57|los_XXX=23 etc. For how do I use the template in the articles where I am the main editor, this way would be easier to start and to update. Asturkian (talk) 20:03, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Those ideas could work. Asturkian, so do you agree or disagree with the MLB template change? I could help you with implementing the module for cricket tables, is there a particular example article you would want to start with? CRwikiCA talk 15:49, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: The module and its submodule now all use Module:Yesno. CRwikiCA talk 19:00, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed Module talk:Yesno#Render T as true as well? :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:14, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Some comments.

• Currently if |source=, Source: is showed up. Maybe change code to treat it differently, so Source: isn't showing (when |source= is used, but is blank).
• maybe disable {{cn}} if |update=future?
• Maybe use Module:navbar instead of {{navbar}}?
• Maybe there could be something done in such cases, that users don't have to use <nowiki></nowiki>

--Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 08:31, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Does the Latvian wiki use the code from here? The idea is to have the {{cn}} show up automatically when no source is provided, because statistics are supposed to be cited. So calling cn is working as intended. The other two points are valid points, although I don't see why a single line does not suffice, because the list makes the rules as high as the table itself. CRwikiCA talk 14:55, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Latvian Wikipedia uses code from here. As for cn – I understand why it is needed, but I'm talking about cases, when actually there are no statistics (or everywhere are 0), that is, when tournament hasn't started yet. But ok, that was only a comment. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:35, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

It's nice to see the use of it spread. I will put the other issues on the to do list as well. Is it standard for the Latvian wikipedia to have a numbered list for the classification rules, rather than the numbered sentence that is used on the English version? CRwikiCA talk 17:16, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Standing tables aren't so much at Latvian Wikipedia, so we don't have tradition to none of those formats. I personally like numbered list, but I start to think, that sentence version would really be better :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 06:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Noticed, that if you have matches in your table and sortable table option, then also those match columns sorts. To my mind, it is useless. They don't sort properly, and what would be correct sorting? Maybe add class="unsortable" for those columns?

Pos	Team	Pld	W	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts		AAA	BBB	CCC	DDD	EEE
1	Team A	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		—	1–0	0–1	16 Nov '14	3 Sep '15
2	Team B	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		B–A	—	3 Sep '15	B–D	3 Sep '15
3	Team C	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		16 Nov '14	C–B	—	16 Nov '14	C–E
4	Team D	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		D–A	3 Sep '15	D–C	—	3 Sep '15
5	Team E	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		E–A	9–5	16 Nov '14	E–D	—

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

Also noticed |status_text_L=. But I suppose it isn't working. Because it isn't showing in such simple example. Or I'm using it not correctly?

Pos	Team	Pld	W	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	AAA (L)	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:
(L) Lorem ipsum

BTW, wouldn't it be possible to redefine status letter texts? I think that in some cases it would be useful. And, shouldn't there be added some tracking category where X, Y, Z are used but without text added to them? --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:01, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

And shouldn't the {{Central}} be used and other disscusions should be moved here? I hope I'm not too intrusive :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:25, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Having a centralized discussion would probably be best, feel free to set the {{Central}} templates up. There are only a finite number of status letters defined, which might be different for each style, the L is not defined for WL style. It should be relatively straightforward to add the unsortable class to those columns, I'll add it to my to-do list. CRwikiCA talk 14:29, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

 Done (the centralized discussion thing). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 07:59, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Colouring of top row for standalone WDL style templates

The 2015 Windward Islands Tournament is a standalone tournament, no team qualifies for another round and no team is promoted or relegated. The top team alone is the outright champion. In these instances, should the top rows be coloured? At the moment there is only a (C) in the first row but I think it may look better coloured. What are your thoughts ? TheBigJagielka (talk) 19:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure what others may say, but I would think first place should be green1. Equineducklings (talk) 03:36, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

If it would be coloured, it should be green1. Whether it should be coloured is a matter of personal preference, I have no strong opinion about it. CRwikiCA talk 14:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Some people had used gold, silver and bronze bgcolor, but those are ugly and I personally hate it, that's I why I asked to use the icons to replace the numbered list. –HTD 15:21, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Champion but no Promotion/Qualification

Hi, regarding the case for SC Ritzing in the 2014–15 Austrian Regional Leagues, where they failed to get license for the Austrian Football First League, why does their row colored in white and not the default grey color? MbahGondrong (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Nevermind, figured it out. MbahGondrong (talk) 19:00, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Advice on tables if last placed teams get to some kind of knockout round

If the last placed team gets to play after the group stage (not necessarily for the championship, or the consolation or classification round), that means all teams automatically qualify for that round, necessitating the use of "T" for all teams that aren't in last place, which gets a "Q". Is this correct? What happens if the team can no longer qualify for the championship, and can only (or had) qualify to the consolation round and having "QE" is all kinds of awkward? See for example, Basketball at the 2015 Southeast Asian Games – Men's tournament. –HTD 22:54, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck: I would not use T at all (what tournament have they qualified for?), and then use A for those in knockout stage and Q for the others when they qualified for the row they are on. For certain scenarios like "Team can not reach knockout stage, but may qualify for 5th-place match or 7th-place match" the extra letters X, Y and Z can be used. Qed237 (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

As for your 1st question, they qualified for what ever playoff the last-placed team qualifies? All teams in Group A had qualified for the 7th place match, and all Group B teams qualified to the 8th place match. For group A, "Team can not reach knockout stage, but may qualify for 7th-place match" doesn't make sense since all teams qualified for this stage. This is also the case for the 2015 FIBA Asia Championship for Women, where there are six teams in Level I, then the top 4 progress to the semifinals, and the bottom 2 play in the promotion/relegation round: All teams qualify to the promotion/relegation round by virtue of being there.

As for your suggestion it's feasible except for the instance I cited above. –HTD 01:07, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Okay so lets take this step-by-step.

• T (Tournament qualified but round not decided) – Should be used when there are qualification for tournament and when round has not yet been decided, for example in league tables when team has qualified for Champions League, but may start in group stage or playoff round. There is no sense in using it when all teams qualify for something.
• A (Advance ti further round) – Used tournaments or qualifications when teams move on to further round or next qualifying round.
• Q (Qualified to phase indicated) – Used when we know what round team will play in. When a team has a Q, it will play in the round displayed on that row and can not qualify for an other row/round. For example if we know team will play 5th-place match and they are on that row, then we add Q.
• X,Y,Z (extra letters) – These extra letters can be set manually to explain further scenarios for example "team can not be relegated", "team can not advance to knockout stage" or whatever you want

Does this clear something up? Qed237 (talk) 09:12, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

"There is no sense in using it when all teams qualify for something." Yeah, this is my question. When all teams qualify for something, it's "T", no question. I know how the other letters work, so thanks, I guess? –HTD 12:51, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

• @Qed237:, you reverted my changes of (A) to (Q). This is SOP, semifinalists get a (Q). This was what was done in the 2015 AFC Asian Cup and 2015 Africa Cup of Nations page. I'm of the impression that (A) is used for things such as promotion/relegation playoffs in leagues. What's up with that? –HTD 14:04, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Apparently, (A) is used, which is weird. (Q) is the most logical as the team "qualified to the semifinals". That's what even the description says. (A) "advances to further round" is unnecessarily ambiguous. –HTD 14:16, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck: A is when you advance to next round and Q is when you qualify for something, like in 2014–15 UEFA Champions League teams that advanced to knockout got A and the third-placed teams that qualified for Europa League got Q. In qualification stage you get A when moving to next round and a Q when you qualified for main tournament. Qed237 (talk) 15:38, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Further guidance on the use of (A) and (Q). In the ongoing World Cup qualification, (Q) goes to the teams that qualify outright, and (A) goes to the team that plays in the playoffs. Is that correct? –HTD 21:06, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes that is true, if a team qualifies for main tournament (2018 FIFA World Cup) use Q, if they qualify for next round/playoffs use A. Qed237 (talk) 00:13, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

PCT mode

I have a few suggestions on improving this module in "PCT mode".

• Omission of leading zeroes

• Leading zeroes are omitted on a majority(?) of websites and Wikipedia articles that use them. It's not used in Yahoo Sports, ESPN.com, MLB.com, NFL.com, 2014–15 NBA season and 2014 NFL season, but is used in NBA.com and 2014 Major League Baseball season.

• Regular typeface for PCT column

• AFAIK, no major website or Wikipedia article boldface the PCT column.

• Capitalization of "PCT"

• Yahoo Sports, ESPN.com, MLB.com, NBA.com, 2014–15 NBA season, 2014 NFL season, 2014–15 PBA season, 2014–15 Big East Conference men's basketball season (and other NCAA division I basketball conferences) all capitalize "PCT", while NFL.com, 2014 Major League Baseball season, 2014 KBO League season and 2014 Nippon Professional Baseball season don't ("Pct."). However, only NFL.com has its table headers in Title Case (or Sentence case as they're all just one word), so you'd argue that "Pct." just follows that pattern. For Wikipedia articles, they're also in Title Case but PCT is still in ALLCAPS (save for baseball leagues). Maybe use "Pct." for baseball and "PCT" for basketball and American football?

• Eventual addition of more columns ("Home", "Road", "Conf", "Div", etc.)

• This a pipeline further down the road, but seeing US league use these columns, they should be added eventually if this would be universally used.

–HTD 11:27, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

All these changes are possible technically, I would like to add the default value when no games are played in the mix. Currently this displays an em dash (—), is this fine or should it be something else? CRwikiCA talk 14:11, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Default value in what column? For GB, the #1 team is traditionally denoted with an emdash. For wins, losses PF, PA and PD, it's always zero. PCT's trickier because other people have edit warred on me because division by zero isn't zero but they insist it to be zero (I wanted it to be left blank; I could live with an emdash too). –HTD 15:02, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I referred to the PCT column here, the others seem okay as standard. If there are no objections to your suggestions, I will start implementing them starting with the least controversial ones. @Asturkian: has implemented the percentage style tables on some articles and might have an opinion about these points. CRwikiCA talk 15:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The question isn’t really whether divide by zero is technically zero, it’s how that stat is usually indicated. —Wiki Wikardo 12:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck: I made the suggested changes: Pct→PCT; no bolding of the percentage column; and omitting the leading zeroes. Adding optionally a home/road column as well can also be done, do you have a particular position for these columns in mind? CRwikiCA talk 17:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

For basketball, looking at some popular websites, there is a variance of orders:

• NBA.com: W-L-PCT-GB-CONF-DIV-HOME-ROAD-L10-STREAK
• ESPN: W-L-PCT-GB-HOME-ROAD-DIV-CONF-PPG-OPP PPG-DIV-STREAK-L10
• Y!Sports: W-L-Pct-GB-CGB-Home-Road-Div-Conf-Last 10-PF-PA-Diff-Streak
• Wikipedia: W-L-PCT-GB-(Home-Road)-Div-GP (Home & road records omitted in conference standings)

It's universal that W-L-PCT-GB, in that order, are the first 4 columns. There's a disagreement on what comes next: Home-Road (always in that order) or Conf-Div (could be reversed). Conference GB only appears on Y!Sports' division standings, but it becomes the "default" in conference standings. PF (PPG)-PA (OPP PPG)-Diff (PPG and OPP PPG being averages of PA and PD respectively) only shows up in 3rd party websites, and Wikipedia doesn't (shouldn't?) have "Last 10" and "Streaks" (which are pretty much worthless). Wikipedia has the "GP" (Games played) column in the end for conference standings but it should be before "Wins" if ever that'll be included.

Since a full blown template would likely include, aside from the default 4 columns, Conf, Div, Home and Road records, and that Conf and Div records are actually used as tiebreakers, and that it would be used in "Division" standings where "Div" records are the next tiebreakers after head-to-head, I'd suggest W-L-PCT-GB-Div-Conf-Home-Road. PF and PA are optional columns that would always be there no matter what, so if someone wants that it could easily be added. These are all optional columns so we'd have flexibility on what to include. –HTD 18:00, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

At least for NFL tables, I don’t think I’ve ever seen DIV–CONF before HOME–AWAY, and NBA’s site seems to be in the minority.—Wiki Wikardo 12:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

However, being as Pct is not completely unknown, and being as this template is also used for non-North American leagues, that capitalization seems more appropriate to me as it fits by analogy with Pts as well as consistency with Pld. Usually headings are in all-caps, otherwise Pct is not.

I should also point out that keeping track of home and away records is not unique to US sport, though international football leagues usually denote it differently (i.e. 6 more identical columns, not two columns of W-L-T). —Wiki Wikardo 12:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I'm indifferent now on "PCT" vs. "Pct". Some countries use "Win%" or some other variation. Perhaps this should be customizable. Same with which comes first between Div-Conf and Home-Away.

As for home and away records, most tables, such as the BBC's don't provide home and away records, although it's true that I had stumbled upon tables with such stats. In U.S. sports home and away records are always given. –HTD 22:54, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Varying the order of Home–Away and Div–Conf would be more work for whoever has to program it, I’d think, for very little gain (and at the cost of consistency, I might add). Home and Road records seem to be more prominent in sports like American football and basketball, but less common in MLB tables.

There’s also a slight distinction in how PCT is calculated versus Win%—draws count for .5 of a win in American sport, whereas a win percentage is simply the percentage of wins to total games played (and is actually expressed as a percentage). (In AFL standings, however, Win% is a measure of points difference.) —Wiki Wikardo 07:44, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

A - Advances to a further round" - can we customize this to "Advances to knock-out stage", etc.?

Hi, wonder if we can customize the "A" status code - "Advances to a further round" to "Advances to knock-out stage", or even better "Advances to knock-out stage"?

I think this is the relevant function:

function pp.status(Args)

-- Declare status options
-- ------------------------------------------------------------
-- NOTE: If you add to status_code, also add to status_called and status_letters!!
-- Or functionality will be compromised
-- ------------------------------------------------------------
local status_code, status_called = {}
status_code = { A='Advances to a further round'

...

Thanks for considering and keep up the great work! Facts707 (talk) 12:48, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

We should be able to use this on many places, for example in 2018 FIFA World Cup qualification, teams that qualifies from second round to third round must also be able to use the A and then knockout stage is wrong. Qed237 (talk) 17:44, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

After a closer look I think we would only have to add the bold line below:

function pp.status(Args)
   ... (existing code here)
-- Read in custom status options
if Args['status_text_A'] then status_code.A = Args['status_text_A'] end
if Args['status_text_X'] then status_code.X = Args['status_text_X'] end
if Args['status_text_Y'] then status_code.Y = Args['status_text_Y'] end
if Args['status_text_Z'] then status_code.Z = Args['status_text_Z'] end

Facts707 (talk) 19:29, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

@Facts707: That is not possible as we would need to define A every time it is called and the backwards compability with all other tables where the letter is already used would be compromised. Qed237 (talk) 20:25, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Technically it is possible to have specific letters' description overwritten per your proposal. Whether it is desirable is another issue. Currently the details are listed in the last column, is it necessary to repeat that in the footer as well? CRwikiCA talk 18:05, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Starting with some number

I'm here, again :) Wasn't it possible to start numbering with some other position, not with 1st? So that in this example Canada would be in pos2, China – pos3 etc. (in this example there wouldn't be pos1). |highest_pos=2 is completely something else.

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
2	China	3	1	1	1	3	3	0	4
3	Netherlands	3	1	1	1	2	2	0	4
4	New Zealand	3	0	2	1	2	3	−1	2
5	Canada	3	1	2	0	2	1	+1	5

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

--Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 12:49, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: Yes, you are correct, I changed the table you posted to show this. (Obviously there is no team1 defined now.) CRwikiCA talk 14:01, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I feel quite stupid right now :) Will have to remember to do double-check before asking something (i either forgot to include |highest_pos=2 or renumber teams). Sorry. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:31, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Automatic pass through of parameters

I just made some updates to this module so that this now works. the old syntax is still supported, but now you can (a) set |section= and it will check for a match with |transcludesection= (if both are defined), and (b) many parameters are automatically passed through from the transcluding pages (if I missed an important parameter, we can add it). Frietjes (talk) 13:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Converting

I have created a subpage of my userpage, that helps a lot to convert old tables to new module version. Basically, one can use it like this (see pre tag at the top of the page). The output of that can be seen in the next table. In the next edit one can clean-up things, so after that it looks pretty. I think this idea could be developed (if module would be used, then probably you could make everything in one edit), this was just a fast version. It really helps a lot, if you know some tricks (find and replace from old table format etc.) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:25, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Some other ideas

Some other ideas, maybe to consider. If I propose something, that already exists, then sorry.

• in some cases, |title= would be useful, for example in this article (for Positions before the final round and Final positions)
• for some old tournaments, where is lack of information, some extra fields, that users can fill by themselves, would be useful. For example, in these tables (OK, it isn't old and not enwiki, this was just an example) the point difference. So maybe some one column for free text?
• it would be useful to add tooltips for status letters. I'm not suggesting deleting the footer text, just adding tooltips, so it won't break accessibility (sometimes it takes time to understand, what for stands that or another letter, specially, if it's X, Y, Z and the table is huge). So there would be:

  Team A (A)

• enabling something similar to Module:Check for unknown parameters would be cool, I think.
• Noticed that in Greek basketball league tables there are extra columns for home/away games. See 2014–15 Greek Basket League#Standings.
• in some far, far future maybe module can be converted to use mv.html library?

For this round it's all, I think. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:25, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

There are some good ideas in there. Lately I haven't had much time to spend on Wikipedia, so that created a bit of a backlog of stuff to do. I don't know whether I can get to this any time soon though. CRwikiCA talk 17:06, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, sure. Do what you want and when you want, I'm just proposing things :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 09:10, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Team number limit

Is there a team number limit? I will do a table of 50 teams and want to know in advance if it will work. --MicroX (talk) 16:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

@MicroX: I think there's not limit. At least, looking to the code, there is no mention to any limit. Asturkian (talk) 18:30, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

@MicroX: I believe a table of 50 teams is possible, though it would definitely be unwieldy. Try it out in your sandbox before making it live. That way, if there are any problems with it, it won't affect any existing articles. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 00:27, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

There is no limit in the code. I think there is a soft limit on the amount of memory or number of parameters that could exist in Wikipedia-Lua, but I don't know at which point you would reach that. I would think that 50 teams should work though. As said before, you might want to make it in your sandbox to ensure everything goes right. CRwikiCA talk 16:07, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Auto Sorting?

Is it possible to add a |sort_by= parameter, so people can just update the win/draw/loss/GF/GA values and it would automaticly sort based on the declared header to sort by?  #FF9600  talk 19:37, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Why would we want to sort a standings table? They are what they are, standings, and highest ranked team should be on top. Qed237 (talk) 21:35, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

That's what the request is about i think. So, not updating the positions as this is done automatically. Would be a nice feature to have. Kante4 (talk) 22:44, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

That's what I understood the question to be, not wanting to have to update team1=AAA etc. I guess that could save a little time, but I imagine it could be difficult to deal with tiebreakers. Equineducklings (talk) 23:26, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh, okay then I probably misunderstood the question, sorry about that. I am not sure how that could be implemented in the code, but as Equineducklings says, the main issue is the amount of different tiebreakers being used and in different orders. Sometimes it is by matches won, sometimes head-to-head or goal difference and so on. Qed237 (talk) 23:56, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Here's a thought then, how about adding a |sort_by= parameter and the accepted values will be the what is already defined based on organizational or league rules? For example, if the value Bundesliga is declared with |sort_by=, the module sorts based on the rules defined in |sort_by= portion of the module based on the Bundesliga's rules for determining a leader in a league (at least the first three rules, after that it will still need to manually sorted unless additional parameters are added).  #FF9600  talk 13:52, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

We should probably worry about the coding behind it before discussing the semantics about how to name it in the module. It might be possible to implement it, effectively it needs and added piece of code to order position according to some criteria. I don't know what sorting options there are in Lua, but it should be possible to incorporate it one way or another. CRwikiCA talk 15:45, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to discuss the semantics, I was clarifying how I feel it may be possible to implement, where each league/organization has their sorting "hardcoded". ;)  #FF9600  talk 23:25, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

There are to many leagues and other tables to have it league specific. The way I imagine it would work best would be to first order by points and then have something like |tiebreaker1=, |tiebreaker2= and so on. If teams have same points look at tiebreaker1, then tiebreaker2 and so on. As said above, the issue would be how to account for head-to-head points and other special criterias. Qed237 (talk) 23:47, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Probably, new parameters would be needed, |hth_points_TTT=, |hth_goals_for_TTT=, |hth_goals_against_TTT=, |hth_away_goals_for_TTT= and whatever more that will be needed. For other leagues also others like |awarded_against_TTT= would be needed. Qed237 (talk) 23:53, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

And of course a variable to sort automatically instead of the "standard" manually. Currently I am making a computer program (in C++) to calculate possible scenarios to see when teams have qualified or been eliminated and more info (highest and lowest possible points, highest and lowest position and highest and lowest points excluding last placed team and so on). Therefore I dont have time now but it could be a future project, if we can find out how to sort in LUA. Qed237 (talk) 23:58, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

The only problem I see is the limited input/output options and the overall processing limits to modules. Some leagues (e.g. in basketball) sort by wins first, so I would have |sort1=, |sort2= or something and use that. If there are head-to-head tiebreakers or a coin toss, or something that is not explicitly stated in the table. Then I think that tie should be broken manually instead of introducing elaborate league-dependent routines. This could be done by introducing a manual tiebreaker parameter |man_tie_order_AAA=1, |man_tie_order_BBB=2, etc.. We should keep the code as light and simple as possible. CRwikiCA talk 15:21, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, have some different ways of sorting like goal diff, matches won and other "easy" tiebreakers while the others are done manually. However, by looking at the code I see a complex situation when team name is in main function and the points and info for that team is being printed in submodule. If we should sort the information, everything should be in the same place? Or perhaps that is not needed, I need more time in LUA if I should do it and currently I have a personal medical issue (hospital included) so I dont know when I will have the time and power so I cant do anything in nearby future if anyone else wants to look at it. Qed237 (talk) 15:19, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Actually there is a clever workaround in existence already. In the current iteration of the main module we have.

	-- Read in number of consecutive teams (ignore entries after skipping a spot)
	while Args['team'..N_teams+1] ~= nil do
		N_teams = N_teams+1
		-- Sneakily add it twice to the team_list parameter, once for the actual
		-- ranking, the second for position lookup in sub-tables
		-- This is possible because Lua allows both numbers and strings as indices.
		team_list[N_teams] = Args['team'..N_teams] -- i^th entry is team X
		team_list[Args['team'..N_teams]] = N_teams -- team X entry is position i
	end

Were the team codes are linked to the position. The position is queried from the input, but this could instead be calculated from tiebreakers rules. Changing this small part and incorporating the tiebreaker rules (possibly with some default rules) would do the trick. Because different styles have different default numbers of points, some of that information might need to be reordered somehow to make it work for any different number of points per win/draw/OT loss etc. I think even partial tables would be done right automatically, when the team_list parameter is built differently, but some rigorous testing would need to be done. The biggest issue will be to have an efficient implementation that also allows it to be used for different styles, some interplay and maybe some reordering of information in the styles might be needed. In particular, default values (|winpoints=3, etc..) should only be defined once in a submodule. CRwikiCA talk 15:59, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Converter

I'm wondering if anybody has come up yet with an easy way that will let you copy and paste a table from another website into the Module:Sports table, similar to, lets say, the Copy & Paste Excel-to-Wiki Converter on Wikipedia:Tools? I have made myself a little excel spread sheet for the use of creating tables in historical German season articles (like 1959–60 Oberliga) and it works resonably well for me but does have some flaws. My skills with excel are pretty limited. I'm happy to email it to other users for improvements or use. Or has somebody else already come up with something better? Calistemon (talk) 09:34, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty handy with Excel. Could you send me what you have so far, and I'll see what I can do? It will probably be a few days since I'm going out of town for the weekend, but I should be able to put some time into it before the New Year. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 10:56, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

There is just one little problem. The email this user feature does not seem to allow me to attach any files. Know any way around that? Calistemon (talk) 11:10, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

In cases where a game is a draw, group stage games go to extra time and penalties

The recently announced Caribbean Cup group stage games will include extra time and penalties unless there is already a match winner. What's the best way to represent this in a table if at all ? TheBigJagielka (talk) 19:37, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@TheBigJagielka: I would probably use submodule Module:Sports table/WL OT and if needed modify the "OTW" and "OTL" columns to include both overtime and penalties. That would mean 4 columns: win, overtime/penalty win, overtime/penalty loss, loss. However I am not sure how the points will be handed out in this tournament? In many sports it is 3pts for win, 2pts for overtime win, 1pt for overtime loss and 0pts for a regular loss. Qed237 (talk) 20:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Or if there is no difference between win and loss in OT and regular time submodule/style Module:Sports table/WL may be used. Qed237 (talk) 20:43, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

If two or more teams are in the same position?

If I have to place two or more teams at the same position, how could I show it on the module table? (e.g. Team A is the first ranked and Team B and C are ranked in the 2nd place) --Apzp79 (talk) 17:37, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

@Apzp79: The positions can be set manually with |pos_TTT=, for example if team "ABC" is in third place in the table but ties for second you can put |pos_ABC=2. Let me know if you need any more help. Qed237 (talk) 18:08, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

World Chess Championship 2016

After some complaints about the difficulty of updating the standing in the World Chess Championship 2016 article I looked for Module:Sports table as an alternative for chess tournaments. To replace the following old-style wikitable I have come up with the table below.

Standings of the Candidates Tournament for the World Chess Championship 2016

Rank	Player	Rating March 2016	1		2		3		4		5		6		7		8		Points	Tiebreaks
																				Head-to-head	Wins
1	Vishwanathan Anand (IND)	2762			½		½										1		2	0	1
4	Fabiano Caruana (USA)	2794	½										½		½				1½	0	0
1	Levon Aronian (ARM)	2786	½										½				1		2	0	1
4	Peter Svidler (RUS)	2757									½				½		½		1½	0	0
1	Sergey Karjakin (RUS)	2760							½				½		1				2	0	1
4	Anish Giri (NED)	2793			½		½				½								1½	0	0
7	Hikaru Nakamura (USA)	2790			½				½		0								1	0	0
8	Veselin Topalov (BUL)	2780	0				0		½										½	0	0

Pos	Team	Pld	Pts		KAR	ARO	ANA	GIR	CAR	SVI	NAK	TOP
1	Sergey Karjakin (RUS) (2760)	3	2		—			½		½	1
2	Levon Aronian (ARM) (2786)	3	2			—	½	½				1
3	Vishwanathan Anand (IND) (2762)	3	2			½	—		½			1
4	Anish Giri (NED) (2793)	3	1.5		½	½		—	½
5	Fabiano Caruana (USA) (2794)	3	1.5				½	½	—		½
6	Peter Svidler (RUS) (2757)	3	1.5		½					—	½	½
7	Hikaru Nakamura (USA) (2790)	3	1		0				½	½	—
8	Veselin Topalov (BUL) (2780)	3	0.5			0	0			½		—

Updated to match(es) played on 14 March 2016. Source: moscow2016.fide.com

The only thing I genuinely don't like is that it says team rather than player. Can this be altered? Or, could a separate module catering for chess tournaments be created? Calistemon (talk) 09:11, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: There is functionality already for changing other headers but not the team header. However, it should not be to hard for me to add a parameter for it if you would like that (like |team_header= or something since we have |draw_header= for draw-column already). If there is more changes to be made with other columns and things like that, a new submodule could be created, but if only the header name is the issue I think a parameter in the current submodule is the best idea. Qed237 (talk) 12:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Also just as an idea, would it not be better to use WDL module and have those columns for wins, draws and losses, and the use Module:Sports results separate since they meet twice? Qed237 (talk) 12:21, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: Changing just the header would be fine for me. The candidates meet twice but due to the neutral venue there is no such thing as home-and-away matches as such. The way the chess articles display the results table is a bit odd compare to football. I tried the columns for win, draw and losses but I could no get the goals for and against columns to go away with that option. Compare to the wikitable the World Chess Championship 2016 article is currently using the Module:Sports table is so much easier to edit and update, it just needs small adaptions to fit the purpose. Calistemon (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: There is currently no functionality for removing only "GF", "GA" and "GD" columns, but that could be added as well if needed (I think) in the same way we remove the other columns in only_pld_pts. Then columns would be "Pos", "Player", "Pld", "W", "D", "L" and "Pts". I will look at the Team header. Are you sure nothing else should be adapted? Qed237 (talk) 12:49, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Pos	Team	Pld	Pts		KAR	ARO	ANA	GIR	CAR	SVI	NAK	TOP
1	Sergey Karjakin (RUS) (2760)	3	2		—			½		½	1
2	Levon Aronian (ARM) (2786)	3	2			—	½	½				1
3	Vishwanathan Anand (IND) (2762)	3	2			½	—		½			1
4	Anish Giri (NED) (2793)	3	1.5		½	½		—	½
5	Fabiano Caruana (USA) (2794)	3	1.5				½	½	—		½
6	Peter Svidler (RUS) (2757)	3	1.5		½					—	½	½
7	Hikaru Nakamura (USA) (2790)	3	1		0				½	½	—
8	Veselin Topalov (BUL) (2780)	3	0.5			0	0			½		—

Updated to match(es) played on 14 March 2016. Source: moscow2016.fide.com

Pos	Player	Pld	Pts		KAR	ARO	ANA	GIR	CAR	SVI	NAK	TOP
1	Sergey Karjakin (RUS) (2760)	3	2		—			½		½	1
2	Levon Aronian (ARM) (2786)	3	2			—	½	½				1
3	Vishwanathan Anand (IND) (2762)	3	2			½	—		½			1
4	Anish Giri (NED) (2793)	3	1.5		½	½		—	½
5	Fabiano Caruana (USA) (2794)	3	1.5				½	½	—		½
6	Peter Svidler (RUS) (2757)	3	1.5		½					—	½	½
7	Hikaru Nakamura (USA) (2790)	3	1		0				½	½	—
8	Veselin Topalov (BUL) (2780)	3	0.5			0	0			½		—

Updated to match(es) played on 14 March 2016. Source: moscow2016.fide.com

@Calistemon: I tried adding thew parameter in sandbox and is seems to be working. You can change it to whatever you want. Does the ranking within parentesis fill any use? Qed237 (talk) 12:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

By the way, you can also give two or more players the same position by using for example |pos_AAA=1. Qed237 (talk) 13:01, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

It has now been put to live use after testing. Please use |team_header=. Qed237 (talk) 13:28, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: Thanks for the changes, much appreciated. From the (one) opinion voiced on Talk:World Chess Championship 2016 there is some interest there to use this module. As to the players ranking in parentesis I added it because it was in the existing table but, from what I can gather, it has no influence over the standings or even the qualifying for the tournament. Its possibly a nice thing to have but not essential. Calistemon (talk) 21:41, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: No problem. I added the Chess article at my talkpage so I can follow that discussion. Just let me know if there is something else I can help with. Qed237 (talk) 21:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

As a compromise, given their seemingly low importance, I have now put the ranking in small script. I think the table looks good and is a lot easier to update than the old wikitable. Calistemon (talk) 22:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

AFL Ladder

I've noticed for quite some time that the AFL/VFL ladders are still mostly hardcoded. We have to input Games Played, Wins, Draws, Losses, Points For, Points Against, Percentage and Points. Out of these Played, Percentage and Points could be calculated based on the others (W+D+L, PF/PA*100, W*4+D*2).

I have been impressed by the module and it's simplicity for soccer. Would it be possible to create an offshoot for Australian rules football?

The differences between footy and soccer would be the worth of wins (4 points) and draws (2 points), and also instead of GF, GA and GD, there'd be PF (points for), PA (points against) and Percentage (PF/PA*100).

--SuperJew (talk) 18:09, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@SuperJew: I suppose you are talking about 2015 AFL season#Ladder and similar tables? I you look at the documentation, some of this functionality already exists. If you look at the submodule the soccer tables use, and specially Module:Sports table/WDL#Customization you see that you can list L (loss) column before D (draw) by setting |loss_before_draw=true and also replace GF (goals for) and GA (goals against) with PF (points for) and PA (points against) by setting |for_against_style=points. For points, the default value is win=3, draw=1, loss=0, but these can also be changed with |winpoints=4 and |drawpoints=2 (or is losses actually 2 points, then what is draw?). What we need to look at is the percentage part, we have goal ratio (GF/GA) but percentage is definitely possible if you are interested. Qed237 (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

We have "point ratio" by using |use_goal_ratio=yes but then 100% is 1.000. Qed237 (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: Wow! Thanks for all this. Yeah, I was referring to that ladder and all the ones here and also there are state league ladders. I've played with it a bit in my sandbox and it looks pretty great so far. The one issue still seems to be the percentage - goal ratio is the idea, but we'd need it multiplied by 100 and to change the heading to %. Would that be possible?

and yeah I had a typo with the points. It's 4 for a win and 2 for a draw.

Also is there a way to account for special occasions? For example, last season, due to the death of Phil Walsh a match was cancelled and each team awarded two points.

--SuperJew (talk) 21:10, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@SuperJew: Note and points for special event is added in your sandbox (hope that is okay for me to edit). Points can be adjusted with |adjust_points_TTT= (where TTT is the team) and work both for positive and negative changes. A note can be added with |note_TTT= and if two teams have same note the second team can refer to the other team i.e. |note_AAA=TTT (where AAA is the second team). I will look in to the percentage. Would not P% or something be better to explain, than just having %? Qed237 (talk) 21:42, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: Beautiful! No worries on editing the sandbox. I like it. Regarding % or P%, the hardcoded tables used % as does the official AFL site, so I think it would be better to leave it as % and the tooltip will help if anyone is lost. --SuperJew (talk) 21:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@SuperJew: I have now added more code in the module sandbox for percentage that I think should work. We should probably test it out before going "live" so we dont break something. If I may also come with some hints, I suggest adding comments in the code later to help editors with the updating, for example like Template:2018 FIFA World Cup qualification – UEFA Group I table. Qed237 (talk) 22:17, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: Looks really great! Any other way you'd want to test it? --SuperJew (talk) 22:52, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@SuperJew: Honestly, not sure exactly how to test it properly, but code should always be tested a lot if it may affect many pages (this module is used on many places). It is just some extra if-statements and should not break anything. I have triple-checked the code without spotting any errors. Qed237 (talk) 22:57, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@SuperJew: I did some more testing and cant see any errors so I implemented it. If problems turn up, we may revert. Qed237 (talk) 23:08, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: OK. Thanks so much for all the help! I'll run it by the people on the Aussie footy project and soon should start using it. --SuperJew (talk) 23:15, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@SuperJew: No problem, only happy to help. Let me know if there is something else I can help with. This module has big potential. Qed237 (talk) 00:47, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: The changes in the code seem logical and I wouldn't expect that to break anything. It's nice to see how easily adaptable the module is to other sports. @SuperJew: The module has a lot of different options that might be useful, you can see examples in the many football (soccer) articles that use them as well as the extensive documentation. If you have any questions about any of the features, feel free to ask them. CRwikiCA talk 18:16, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

@Qed237: & @SuperJew: – good work on setting this up. My main gripe is the "qualification" column – it's unnecessary and distracting in a competition where the only qualification outcomes are playing finals or not playing finals (it's also inconsistent with previous ladders on Australian football pages). From my quick read of the module documentation, I can't see a current way to get rid of that column without losing the green shading as well. Could you code something in to give that column an on/off toggle? Aspirex (talk) 10:27, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

@Aspirex: Hi, and thank you. As you say there is no current way to get rid of that column and that is because of WP:ACCESS. Since readers may be colorblind we should not only use colors to explain things, hence the extra column. The column has existed before in some tables, but now with the module it exists everywhere to comply with wikipedia guidelines. Qed237 (talk) 11:27, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

@Aspirex: I'd also say that while to you who's familiar with footy, the top 8 highlighted teams (in previous format) intuitively means "qualified to finals", someone who is not familiar with footy might not know this. --SuperJew (talk) 12:52, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Font size parameter

Hi everyone,

As a regular Wikipedia user, may I change something on Module:Sports table? Is it okay if I can add a font size parameter to both Module:Sports table/WL and Module:Sports table/WDL for styling purposes, and test how will it effectively operate. Here's the purpose: default size will always be 100, but other users may have an option to adjust and lower the size. Thanks! Raymarcbadz (talk) 15:49, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

May I ask why you want smaller size and where it would be useful? I have been reading Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Text (last paragraph), and it says reduced font sizes should be used sparingly as well as In no case should the resulting font size drop below 85% of the page fontsize. We should try and use normal size, if possible, to keep it easy to read. Qed237 (talk) 16:04, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

It would be useful only on the NOC pages to correspond to the similar style in other result tables of each sport section exclusive for each NOC. The rest of the team-based sport tournaments will always be adjusted to normal size. The font size of the template on the NOC would be adjusted to 95% only, which may seem readable for everyone. What do you think? Raymarcbadz (talk) 16:12, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean by "NOC", what is that short for? Can you link to one of the articles it would be used? Qed237 (talk) 16:20, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

NOC stands for "National Olympic Committee". It would be used to a particular NOC competing in an Olympic edition (for example: United States at the 2016 Summer Olympics). Each of them has to be complied with the MOS Olympic standard. Raymarcbadz (talk) 16:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I see. I have not seen that guideline before and it is a project guidline so general wikipedia guidelines has higher importance. I see it has not been updated to use the new modules, but they should be used. Also I can not see anything about the size of the tables being smaller than normal? Qed237 (talk) 16:35, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Well the font size of the tables is slightly smaller than normal. Can I test the module by adding the font size parameter and see if this can be practically enough for the template being displayed only in the NOC page? Raymarcbadz (talk) 16:46, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

There is no harm in sandbox testing, but I can not see any use for it. Qed237 (talk) 17:25, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Qed237, do you think that adding font-size to the style at the start of the Module:Sports table would be impossible? Raymarcbadz (talk) 09:59 13 April 2016 (UTC)

I dont know if it is impossible or not as I have never even thought about doing it. Can not see any good reason for it. Qed237 (talk) 10:26, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Qed237, I did not edit anything on the Module:Sports table/sandbox, but I fairly did on the submodules supported to the module. Kindly check this one and investigate the code. I'm only focusing on the table style for this module, not on the standings and rules that you have developed. To see the results, you may view the difference on my sandbox. Thanks! Raymarcbadz (talk) 11:45 13 April 2016 (UTC)

I see the code and it should be working just fine, just like the examples in your sandbox seems to be working. But, once again, I see no reason from for using it. Qed237 (talk) 13:31, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

I see your changes and technically it seems okay. You do refer to the Olympics article guideline. Nowhere in this guideline is a reduced font size listed a guideline, it is only mentioned to use it for members of a winning team. I do not think there is a good reason to reduce the font size in tables. I don't know why that custom exists for these articles, but I think it is wrong and should not be done going forward. People set their font size on their computers, because they are comfortable reading like that, and article should not go against that. In addition, the whole purpose of these articles is to list these tables, so why should they be compressed. Are you yourself in favour of these reduced sizes? CRwikiCA talk 16:13, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

American football

Would it be possible to customize the module for use to American football seasons? The project currently still seems to use the wikitable format, as seen in examples like Template:2015 AFC West standings and Template:2015 CFL West Division standings. The specific article I would like to use it for is 2016 German Football League to replace the following wikitable:

GFL South
P	Team	G	W	T	L	PF	PA	PCT
1	Schwäbisch Hall Unicorns	1	1	0	0	26	21	1.000
2	Allgäu Comets	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000
3	Stuttgart Scorpions	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000
4	Saarland Hurricanes	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000
5	Munich Cowboys	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000
6	Marburg Mercenaries	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000
7	Rhein-Neckar Bandits	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000
8	Frankfurt Universe	1	0	0	1	21	26	0.000

Is the module aready capable to do this or would it require alterations or a new style? Calistemon (talk) 11:23, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I have an example of what currently can be done here

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	PF	PA	PD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	Schwäbisch Hall Unicorns	1	1	0	0	28	21	+7	2	Qualification to play-offs
2	Allgäu Comets	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
3	Marburg Mercenaries	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
4	Munich Cowboys	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
5	Rhein-Neckar Bandits	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
6	Saarland Hurricanes	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
7	Stuttgart Scorpions	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
8	Frankfurt Universe	1	0	0	1	21	28	−7	0	Relegation to GFL2

Updated to match(es) played on 16 April 2016. Source: Football-aktuell, Scoresway
Rules for classification: 1) Winning percentage.

Unfortunately everything does not exist yet. Qed237 (talk) 12:13, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: The winning percetage is currently only existing in the WL submodule and not added to the WDL module, which is needed in this case where matches may be tied. I dont think we realised that win percentage could be used also in a draw. OF course this can also be added to WDL submodule. Also I dont see any way to currently remove the "point difference" -column the WDL module has (you only have PF and PA in your example, we also have column for the difference. Does that column need to be removed (I see it exists on scoresway)? If it does I think I can sort that out fairly easy as well. Qed237 (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: Now you mention the percentages, is there any possibility to bold it when it is used as the first criteria to tie-break? E.g., 2015–16 Latvian Basketball League#League table. Thank you! Asturkian (talk) 12:46, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: Have a look at User:Qed237/sandbox#Table testing and see what you think. Some tables are extra for testing so I dont break anything and I would need to do more testing before putting it to use. Let me know what you think. Qed237 (talk) 12:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Asturkian: I just noticed that when I was working on the question above. Since it was not me that added it, I have to see what the best solution is. Currently points (when used) are always bolded, percentage never, and wins when used as tiebreaker. It should be a simple fix, but I have to make sure I dont break anything else. Qed237 (talk) 13:02, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Asturkian: Should be working now (I dont think I destoryed anything). Now that column is bolded all the time independent of showing points or percentage, which seems most reasonable. Qed237 (talk) 13:13, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: The table you created under Future table WDL sandbox would be suit the application really well. Having the points difference there is no disadvantage at all. As it is, various versions of the table exist, depending on the website. For example, the official GFL website does not use percentage at all but rather a point system similar to association football. It seems however that percentage is the more common system for points in American football. Calistemon (talk) 21:20, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: Okay great, I will do some more testing tomorrow (first on my list) and then move the sandbox version to main when I am sure that no error will occur. I will let you know when it is ready for usage. Is there anything in Future table WDL sandbox that you want changed? Qed237 (talk) 22:38, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: It looks all good to me. Thanks for your help, your efforts in modifying this module and making it applicable for other projects are much appreciated. Calistemon (talk) 22:44, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	PF	PA	PD	PCT	Qualification or relegation
1	Schwäbisch Hall Unicorns	1	1	0	0	28	21	+7	1.000	Qualification to play-offs
2	Allgäu Comets	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	—
3	Marburg Mercenaries	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	—
4	Munich Cowboys	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	—
5	Rhein-Neckar Bandits	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	—
6	Saarland Hurricanes	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	—
7	Stuttgart Scorpions	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	—
8	Frankfurt Universe	1	0	0	1	21	28	−7	.000	Relegation to GFL2

Updated to match(es) played on 16 April 2016. Source: Football-aktuell, Scoresway
Rules for classification: 1) Winning percentage.

@Calistemon: Okay it has been tested and I double checked the code so everything should be working. I have added it to to the "real code" and it is now "live" and ready to use. Feel free to copy the code for the table above, and let me know if you need any more help. Qed237 (talk) 09:32, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: Awesome work! Now added to the 2016 German Football League article. Hopefully the new module will catch on and be used in other American football season articles. Thank you, Calistemon (talk) 11:18, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

@Calistemon: Thanks. I think it will be used more over time, it keeps on expanding. I am working on all tables for the Olympic games now, and I think that will open the eyes for a lot of people that has not come across the module yet. Qed237 (talk) 13:56, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Standings Updater Excel Template

Hi guys, the past few days I have been in contact with Calistemon regarding his excel template that can simplify the updating of the module. Basically it requires setting up the teams for the season (Master sheet), copying data from Soccerway, updating the position standing and copying the respective parts to wiki. Only parts of the module that are regularly/weekly updated, are used in the template.

1. |update=
2. |win_ |draw_ |loss_ |gf_ |ga_
3. |team1=|team2=|team3=|team4=|team5=,....

We believe that this could be really helpful for other editors, who regularly update the module in their respective articles and makes the updating less time-consuming. Following is the link to the file: ModuleSports table updater v1. Please do check and try it out, and any feedback's are welcome. A lot of thanks to Calistemon for sending me his excel template and giving helpful advices to improve the template. Hopefully it can be useful also for other editors. Happy editing! MbahGondrong (talk) 00:31, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I forgot too mention that when the table is copied to the module and you click preview, it shows that the is are white-spaces between each line. This should be deleted manually. If anyone can help about this, please do share your solution. Cheers! MbahGondrong (talk) 00:57, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

After having had a bit of a look at it your template makes mine look pretty clumsy! Awesome work. Just as a note, the use of it is not just restricted to soccerway or football, it can be used and adapted for other sports and websites as well. The only issue I have come across in my original version was that German websites are problematic because of their (stupid) use of logos in tables, that throws it off. Calistemon (talk) 07:47, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Looks very, very, very nice. Probably the link has to be posted at WT:Footy and also send to some editors from other projects :) it shows that the is are white-spaces between each line. This should be deleted manually - tried with Latvia, there wasn't any unneeded blank lines. Calistemon, could you show such table with logos from website? --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 08:48, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: This Bundesliga table at kicker.de, for example, but it really is very common on German websites and even the German Wikipedia. I presume the copyright laws for logos must be different in Germany. MbahGondrong has already posted on the WP:Football talk page, so that has been taken care of. Calistemon (talk) 09:10, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: I would love to share it with other projects and editors, I don't know where to start though. The white-spaces occur to me like this, this happens when I click preview after I copied the table from Excel to Wikipedia. MbahGondrong (talk) 09:27, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

About white-spaces: maybe I'm simply lucky :D I will try to send this message (about excel file) to some people. About Germany and their flags — OK, I see them, but they don't seemingly disrupt everything here (except that the format is different etc.), because it's the same column. But OK, you can use other websites. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 10:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007:Thanks a lot for your help. I really appreciate it. Could it possibly be like that because I am using WikED to edit Wikipedia articles? MbahGondrong (talk) 19:08, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I haven't used wikied so very much to be sure about it, but don't think it is the cause. You can try to disable it and then do some table update. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Still some manual editing to do, right? I was using my own version using vlookups, so it was just copy website, paste in openoffice, copy complete wikicode. -Koppapa (talk) 19:56, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: Okay will try it out. @Koppapa: Yes still some manual work which are deleting empty rows in wiki. Would you mind if you share your version? MbahGondrong (talk) 20:08, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, this is ugly and has the team-argument on same line, but should be ok for an example: www.filedropper.com/ modulesportstableupdaterv2 (delete spacing). Having it all in one cell also removes the whitespaceproblem. -Koppapa (talk)

@Edgars2007: I tried without WikED and it works perfect, the white-spaces are gone. Do you know where I could ask around about this issue maybe? @Koppapa: Apparently your version still shows whitespaces for me, if I enable WikED, like here. Your version looks actually more simpler than what I have done, having all the team name, position and records in one line could be confusing but I think it does reduce the work to only copying from website and then copy to Wikipedia. I would tend to use that approach. Do you use Soccerway as source or other website? MbahGondrong (talk) 13:08, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

It looks like wikied really has some problems with newlines. The author of wikied doesn't seem to be very active lately, but you can try tell here your problem. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:12, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that was from soccerway. For consistency though, I'd try to get all teamX in a line above. -Koppapa (talk) 18:24, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi guys, I have here a link to the latest version of the excel file, which uses the vlookup approach from Koppapa. I added a new QR column, where you can insert the latest status of each team. If there is any data there (so far only for CP, C, P, R), it will automatically add a |status_ in the relevant row. I have arranged the |teamX in one line, and |name in a separate part to be consistent with the commonly used format. I suggest and prefer to use the vlookup approach since it is way more simpler. Hopefully it can be useful for other editors also, and as always any input or suggestion are very much welcome. :) @Edgars2007: Thanks for the hint. MbahGondrong (talk) 08:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Promotion and qualification

There is no parameter 'PQ' (Promotion or qualification) in the list of parameters of results header. May someone add it, cause there are leagues without relegation? Martinklavier (talk) 10:30, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

@Martinklavier: Done. Thanks for letting me know. Qed237 (talk) 11:14, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Goals For/Against columns

Is there any way to add something so that the goals for and goals against columns are removed, but the Difference column still remains and the data can be inputted directly to that? I'm trying to use these to create a table for the 2016 American Ultimate Disc League season and the only sources there are for it just have the +/-, rather than the individual stats. At the moment, I've added the information by looking at the matches played so far (the season has only just started so there's not to many), but if there's no way to implement this, I'll just go back to using similar tables to in 2015. Thanks! 57purple (talk) 14:31, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@57purple: At the moment no, there is no such alternative. But if it is really neccesary I guess I could try and add such an alternative. Is it a big issue so I should start looking at the module coding and see what I can do? Qed237 (talk) 12:08, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it's too important to get it added, its only for one page which isn't too visited at the moment, so it'll cope without, thanks! 57purple (talk) 21:22, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

This would be useful, I think. See also second point here. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:40, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

No 'points' column?

In this table (and probably in other cases, too), it would be good to remove "points" column. It doesn't have anything to do there. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: The eliminated teams are ranked based on their points... Qed237 (talk) 19:50, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I still do think, that points for some teams are redundant in the table. At least, for 1st-4th place. And does really 5th-8th place is ranked by points? I'm not saying, that they're not. But OK, I do agree, that it's useful for at least some part of table. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 20:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Request custom Group title

I've just created a table for the promotion playoffs in South Africa. One team from the first division and two from the second division compete in A group stage to determine a group winner and achieve promotion/remain in the division. Is it possible to add an option to customise the 'Grp/Group' title? I'd like to use Lge/League if possible. Please see 2015–16_National_First_Division#Play-offs TheBigJagielka (talk) 10:23, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I have now made some modifications in the code, adding an option to to customise the 'Grp/Group' title. It works the same way as other headers and you set |group_header= to the header you want. This edit to 2015–16 National First Division is an example on how you can use the parameter. Will update the module documentation soon. Does this work for you? Qed237 (talk) 11:18, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@TheBigJagielka: Sorry, forgot to ping. Qed237 (talk) 11:19, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: Yep. Thanks! 12:38, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Result column

May I suggest to the creator of revising the source text to include the option of suppressing the res_col. This is to reduce the redundancy where qualification summary is already discussed within the article page. Thanks. TjBison (talk) 04:27, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

@TjBison: This has been discussed before and the consensus is that per MOS:ACCESS that column must exists due to the fact that we should not only use colors to explain what happens on the rows. But thanks for the idea. Qed237 (talk) 10:35, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

For/against in sets

Hey I was just trying to use this template for badminton and discovered there is no way to change the for/against column to sets. I would really appreciate if you could make this an option as it would be really helpful in making tables for badminton tournaments
F1lover22 talk 13:42, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Volleyball tables

In volleyball tables, why is the "Games Won" column bolded while the "Points" column is not? These are, after all, rankings by points and not by games won. Let me remind that in volleyball, unlike in basketball, the relation between games won and points won is not straightforward, and it is possible for a team to have won fewer games than another team but be ranked above it. --Theurgist (talk) 22:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@Theurgist: Add |ranking_style=points and it will work. I added it at the Pool A standings for an example (here). Asturkian (talk) 22:49, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@Theurgist and Asturkian: When the module was created I was told that the tiebreaker was matches won and not points. See Volleyball at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament#Pool standing procedure. Qed237 (talk) 00:24, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

@Theurgist and Asturkian: And the source is here. Qed237 (talk) 00:26, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

@Qed237: Thanks, that tiebreaking method is new to me.

@Asturkian: Thanks, now I know how to change it when necessary. By the way, in order for the {{ping}} functionality to work, a new signature has to be added to the page with the very same edit – and it has to be a completely new signature, not a new one overwriting the old one. --Theurgist (talk) 00:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

EFL Trophy - Penalty shootout victors during group stage awarded 2 points, other team still gets 1 point

In the 2016–17 EFL Trophy, a victory following a penalty shootout is worth 2 points while the team that lost the shootout will receive 1 point. What's the best way to represent this? @Qed237:

Clubs will be awarded 3 points for a win and 1 point for a draw. In the event of a drawn game (after 90 minutes), a penalty shootout will be held with the winning team earning an additional point.

— EFL.com

TheBigJagielka (talk) 10:42, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

@TheBigJagielka: There are different ways to do this. I am working on some examples in my sandbox and will show you soon. Qed237 (talk) 11:23, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Standard football table

Pos	Lge	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	L1	Walsall	1	1	0	0	5	2	+3	3	Qualification to Round 2
2	ACA	Leicester City Academy	1	0	1	0	2	2	0	2
3	L1	Sheffield United	1	0	1	0	2	2	0	1
4	L2	Grimsby Town	1	0	0	1	2	5	−3	0

Updated to match(es) played on 30 August 2016. Source: Sky Sports
Rules for classification: 1) Points; 2) Goal difference; 3) Goals scored.

Penalty columns

Pos	Lge	Team	Pld	W	PW	PL	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	L1	Walsall	1	1	0	0	0	5	2	+3	3	Qualification to Round 2
2	ACA	Leicester City Academy	1	0	1	0	0	2	2	0	2
3	L1	Sheffield United	1	0	0	1	0	2	2	0	1
4	L2	Grimsby Town	1	0	0	0	1	2	5	−3	0

Updated to match(es) played on 30 August 2016. Source: Sky Sports
Rules for classification: 1) Points; 2) Goal difference; 3) Goals scored.

Without draw

Pos	Lge	Team	Pld	W	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	L1	Walsall	1	1	0	5	2	+3	3	Qualification to Round 2
2	ACA	Leicester City Academy	1	1	0	2	2	0	2
3	L1	Sheffield United	1	0	1	2	2	0	1
4	L2	Grimsby Town	1	0	1	2	5	−3	0

Updated to match(es) played on 30 August 2016. Source: Sky Sports
Rules for classification: 1) Points; 2) Goal difference; 3) Goals scored.

@TheBigJagielka: The three different alternatives I can think of is now shown above. Either we use standard football table and ajust the points manually, or we use separate columns for penalty results, or finally we remove draw column (and adjust points manually). Not sure what is best. Qed237 (talk) 11:38, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

The only good source I could find for tables was Sky Sports, which display the standard version with draw (perhaps they can not modify their tables), but most information is shown in the second alternative with penalty columns. Qed237 (talk) 11:41, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

@TheBigJagielka:, @Qed237: I would say that the second example is close. In my opinion D column be left because that is a valid result and only have the additional column of WP of Won on Penalties. In this case Loss on Penalties is not needed because Draw is clear enough where the point came from. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 13:01, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd go for the standard football table, and just add a footnote to teams that win a penalty-shootout. -Koppapa (talk) 20:33, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Way to retrieve data

Is there any way to use a league table template to retrieve the current position of a specific club? For example, {{2016–17 Bundesliga table|pos_BSC}} would give the value 2. Also if there are manually defined positions, could that value be used as well? (i.e. if |team7=FRE but |pos_FRE=6, then {{2016–17 Bundesliga table|pos_FRE}} would give the value 6. Thanks. Secret Agent Julio (talk) 19:38, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Secret Agent Julio: Sorry, from what I know there is no way to retrieve that information and I think the code has to be rewritten for it to work. I have no idea how to do that. Qed237 (talk) 22:00, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Additional colour

Requesting addition of the colour gold (signifying Club World Cup qualifiers), with the colour scheme #FEDCBA. This allows it to match the pre-existing tables here, here, here... - J man708 (talk) 05:48, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

@J man708: You can directly use a colour code if needed per Module:Sports_table/WDL#Indicating_results, so there is no need to add it to the default scheme. CRwikiCA talk 02:14, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

An example:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	Team A	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Qualification to World Cup

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

CRwikiCA talk 02:20, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Help needed

Does any of the regelar contributors/maintainers of this template speak Dutch? I'm currently trying to set up this module on the Dutch wiki but I need some help.Tvx1 18:44, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Anyone willing to lend a hand?Tvx1 22:10, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

@Tvx1: I can probably help you out a bit. But I am currently quite busy in real life, so I have very limited time on Wikipedia. Contact me on my English user talk page with details of what you are trying to do. I do not know how the Dutch wikipedia's Lua implementations are arranged, are they similar to the English ones? If that is the case, a direct copy of the en version is probably easiest, with potentially renaming some variables. Also note that I do not routinely check the nl Wikipedia, so always contact me on my en user talk to check the Dutch one if you would need my input on certain things. CRwikiCA talk 02:27, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Update:the issue is resolved now. The modules are up and running on the Dutch wiki.Tvx1 20:10, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Head to head results

I couldn't figure out an easy way to just show the head-to-head results with colouring that mimics {{Fb r header}}, {{Fb r team}}, ... so I cobbled together Module:Head to head. let me know if I am reinventing the wheel here. I tried to generally mimic the syntax used by this module to avoid inventing a new parameter language as well. currently, I have only deployed it in one article, 2016–17 Egyptian Second Division#Results tables where I was able to dramatically reduce the amount of wikicode in the article. Frietjes (talk) 18:29, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Looks a lot like Module:Sports results with the exception that sports results does not have the color coding, which is discussed at talkpage for that module. Unfortunately I should be asleep by now, so I can not look in to it more closely. Qed237 (talk) 02:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

From a quick glance it seems to copy the intention of Module:Sports results, which can be an added to the standings table itself per Module:Sports table/WDL#Matches. Colour is not implemented on purpose in the match results, because it does typically not provide clarity and tends to conflict with WP:COLOR. I currently limited time on Wikipedia, so I cannot compare the source code of both versions, your creation might have some valuable pieces that could be implemented in the existing module. CRwikiCA talk 03:01, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

User:Qed237, User:CRwikiCA, yes it looks like I did reinvent the wheel. the idea was to have it replace the {{Fb r header}}, {{Fb r team}}, ... system, complete with the same automatic colouring, cell sizes, font sizes, etc. one difference of what I created is that the "short_AAA" parameters are automatic, derived from the three letter team abbreviation and the full team name. but, given the intent of the two modules, I think they could be clearly merged. Frietjes (talk) 12:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

I will continue the merger discussion at Module talk:Sports results. thank you for your help and feedback. Frietjes (talk) 13:34, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Change order of column Pts

Hi there! I would like to change the order of column Pts. In Brazil, the standard is to show Pts right next to team, like this:

Pos

Team

Pts

Pld

W

D

L

GF

GA

GD

Could it be possible to add a parameter such as |points_first=yes to generate the table with that order of columns? That would help to increase adoption of the module in the Portuguese Wikipedia. Thanks. — Alan Moraes (talk) 02:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Absolute percentage parameter

A number of leagues use a percentage system instead of goal difference, where if you beat a team 10–5 you will have a percentage of 200%. The formula for this is 100/(points_against)*(points_for) and can be enabled in this module via |use_goal_percentage=yes in the WDL style. You can see this at Template:AFL_Ladder/2017 for a real-world example using the existing module.

However, some leagues (such as the SANFL) that use percentages use an absolute percentage system instead, where 100% is the maximum and means you scored 100% of the points in every match you played. The formula for this is 100/(points_against+points for)*(points_for). Would it be possible to have the `|use_goal_percentage=` param also accept "absolute" as input, resulting in the above format? Sellyme^Talk 12:46, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

teams tied on all tiebreakers

Is there any way for two teams to have the same "Position" number (because they happen to be tied on points and all tiebreakers)? I didn't see this possibility in any of the template explanations. --Sesameball^Talk 13:44, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

@Sesameball: Yes it is possible. If you use position parameter (|pos_TTT= where TTT is your team) you can set the position manually. For example you can look at this example when I put team A2 and A3 in first position (same as team A1 has automatically). Qed237 (talk) 14:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

@Qed237: Thank you so much for the help! --Sesameball^Talk 21:08, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

@Sesameball: A further remark. You don't have to put simply a number in the Pos column with the pos_TTT parameter. I usually append an equals sign when teams are level on all criteria, for example see here from earlier in the current season. Indeed you can put anything you like in the Pos column. Drawoh46 (talk) 09:30, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Behaviour of Notes with only_pld_pts=yes

With the only_pld_pts=yes option, any notes added using note_xxx= are not produced in the footer. Yet any references embedded in the notes are still produced in the article reflist. See 2016–17 in French football#Championnat de France Amateur for example. I would expect one of: a) the notes and references to appear. b) neither notes or references to appear or. c) an option to make notes+references appear or not (but always both, not one or the other). Cheers, Gricehead (talk) 15:20, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Bonus points

Hi, there. Would it possible to add an optional column for bonus points? (see example) The overall points total isn't a problem, as I can work around this using |adjust_points, but it would be helpful to show the bonus points in an additional "free format" column if it was possible to include this. J Mo 101 (talk) 21:32, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Multiple qualifications/relegation scenarios

Is it possible to somehow include multiple qualification/relegation scenarios? I would like the colouring and content of the "Qualification or relegation"-column to be more readable and clear to the reader. Right now, it seems, that it is only possible to get one colour and not two colours including not being able to split the qualification content into two rows. Examples of usage:

• 2012–13 Premier League#League table (more precisely Wigan Athletic F.C.'s qualification to both the 2013–14 UEFA Europa League group stage and relegation to the English tier 2)
• 1926–27 KBUs Mesterskabsrække#League table (more precisely BK Fremad Amager's qualification for both the 1927–28 Danmarksmesterskabsturneringen and the relegation play-offs)

--Froztbyte (talk) 15:32, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Error

Says: As a default losses are listed before draws. To list losses first, use |loss_before_draw=true. I think this should be draws are listed before losses

 Done — Jkudlick ⚓ t ⚓ c ⚓ s 14:20, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Anything similar?

Are there any similar tables already on Wikipedia? We're trying to use one for a chess tournament at Candidates Tournament 2018#Standings but it's not really suitable. Specifically, we don't need the "Pld" column, and we need 3 extra columns on the right for 3 different types of tie breaks. Adpete (talk) 05:37, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Adpete, can you provide a simple example showing the desired output? Frietjes (talk) 18:00, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

OK. Here is what we have at the moment. (The black and white squares indicate games with the black and white pieces (in chess, white moves first, which is a slight advantage, so every player plays every other player twice, once with white and once with black)).

Pos	Player	Pld	Pts		KRA	MAM	CAR	GRI	LIR	KAR	ARO	SO
1	Vladimir Kramnik (RUS)	3	2.5		—			1		½	1
2	Shakhriyar Mamedyarov (AZE)	3	2			—	½			1	½
3	Fabiano Caruana (USA)	3	2			½	—		½			1
4	Alexander Grischuk (RUS)	3	1.5		0			—		½		1
5	Ding Liren (CHN)	3	1.5				½		—		½	½
6	Sergey Karjakin (RUS)	3	1		½	0		½		—
7	Levon Aronian (ARM)	3	1		0	½			½		—
8	Wesley So (USA)	3	0.5				0	0	½			—

Updated to match(es) played on Round 3. Source: FIDE Candidates Tournament 2018 at the The Week in Chess

And here is the sort of thing I want (but done manually). There is an extra "Tiebreaks" column, which is more or less equivalent to the "Qualification/Relegation" column that this template uses. (In this particular example, it was important, because Carlsen and Kramnik finished on equal points, and Carlsen only won on tiebreaks). I've been experimenting with the Qualification/Relegation column (via the res_col_header option) but can't get it to what I want. What I want is to be able to display whatever I want in the Qualification/Relegation column (and even better, it'd be nice to have two columns, like in this example).

Final standings of the 2013 Candidates Tournament

Rank	Player	CAR		KRA		SVI		ARO		GEL		GRI		IVA		RAD		Points	Tiebreaks
																			H2H	Wins
1	Magnus Carlsen (NOR)			½	½	0	1	½	½	1	1	1	½	0	½	½	1	8½	1	5
2	Vladimir Kramnik (RUS)	½	½			1	½	½	1	½	½	½	1	½	0	1	½	8½	1	4
3	Peter Svidler (RUS)	0	1	½	0			1	½	½	½	½	½	1	½	1	½	8	1½	4
4	Levon Aronian (ARM)	½	½	0	½	½	0			1	0	½	½	1	1	1	1	8	½	5
5	Boris Gelfand (ISR)	0	0	½	½	½	½	1	0			½	½	½	½	½	1	6½	1	2
6	Alexander Grischuk (RUS)	½	0	0	½	½	½	½	½	½	½			1	½	½	½	6½	1	1
7	Vassily Ivanchuk (UKR)	½	1	1	½	½	0	0	0	½	½	½	0			1	0	6	—	3
8	Teimour Radjabov (AZE)	0	½	½	0	½	0	0	0	0	½	½	½	1	0			4	—	1

p.s. Thanks for replying, and I'm not expecting someone to spend hours on this. But if there's an easy solution or easy fix, that'd be great. Adpete (talk) 23:03, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Adpete, I will see if I can get something started for you tomorrow. it will probably not be exactly what you want, but we can iterate after we have an initial module. Frietjes (talk) 23:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

To be more precise: I think I just need one simple change: I want a way to hide the GF/GA/GD columns, without also hiding the qualifications column. At the moment, the only way I can see to hide the GF/GA/GD columns is the "|only_pld_pts=yes" option; and if I do that, there's no way to show the qualifications column, as far as I can see. Adpete (talk) 05:58, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

still working on it, see User:Frietjes/chess for what I have so far. when I am finished, the matches will be formatted and the WDL will be automatically computed from the match data. Frietjes (talk) 16:41, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

I really, really appreciate that effort. But I don't want it to be in vain: you don't just need to please me, you need to please other editors at Candidates Tournament 2018#Standings. I think it's better to have the tie break columns more flexible. I mentioned in my first post that there is actually a 3rd tie break score, so we'd want a 3rd tie break column. Also if it's flexible, that allows it to be used in other tournaments which might have a different tie break method. That's why I think all I need - and perhaps what is best - is the ability to add extra columns and put whatever we want there. Also problematic would be the "+" signs in that table and the disappearance of the colours, though I'm guessing that's because you're still debugging. Adpete (talk) 22:44, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Colours in use

See discussion at Talk:Candidates Tournament 2018#Advance to title match. 91.124.117.29 (talk) 20:29, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

• I have found this discussion for very good proposition about "confusion" due to use of colour. Any thoughts? 91.124.117.29 (talk) 20:42, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Problems with Module

When one taps onto the View, Talk, Edit links? one doesn't get taken to those areas. Instead the teams get randomly re-ordered in their positions. See example: {{2017–18 NHL Eastern Conference standings}}
GoodDay (talk) 11:30, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

GoodDay, I started a thread at VPT since this appears to be a larger issue. Frietjes (talk) 15:45, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

GoodDay, probably fixed now at the expense of the tooltips for the v-t-e links. Frietjes (talk) 17:27, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Ok, it's working correctly now. Thanks. GoodDay (talk) 19:35, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm having a separate but related problem now, there are bracketed numbers in place of the "e." When you click on the numbers, an error message appears. What gives? –Piranha249 20:21, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Never mind, it seems that problem was fixed with the change. –Piranha249 18:29, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Adding rounds and maps to for_against_style Suggestion

Thoughts on adding maps and rounds as an option for the for_against_style section? It would help accommodate eSports tournaments much better. Better yet, is there a way we could implement a custom for_against_style that could be specified in the module itself? Whackyasshackysack (talk) 01:36, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, but the main module is basically a framework on which you can add additional styles (like the ones already in existance). Rounds have been incorporated previously as well: Example. CRwikiCA talk 02:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

multiple hth notes

I just added support for multiple hth notes, so you can now say |hth_AAA=BBB,CCC if |hth_BBB and |hth_CCC are valid. should have zero impact on any prior existing uses of this module. please revert my changes to "Module:Sports table/sub" and let me know if there is a problem (so far nothing in the Pages with script errors category). for a real life usage, see Template:2013 Chinese Super League table where there is both a head-to-head note and a point-note for Tianjin Teda. Frietjes (talk) 23:10, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

On extending this module

I think we should add more parts to these modules (like division record, conference record, home and road record, etc.) to help extend this to the baseball, basketball, and American football templates and centralize the many standings used by WikiProject Sports. I may speak with the respective wikiprojects about this idea. –Piranha249 (talk) 18:04, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Even sports like Darts could benefit from that so that tables like this one can be generated through this module.Tvx1 22:27, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Piranha249 and Tvx1 can you provide a simple example showing the desired output? this module can use sport-specific submodules, so we could probably design one for a particular sport. Frietjes (talk) 18:01, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Frietjes, I posted here about a year ago with a request that could make the template extensible for a few more sports. Figured I'd bring that up again while the topic was active since it seems like no-one saw the original post. You can find the desired output for that suggestion at 2017 SANFL season#Ladder. Sellyme^Talk 19:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Sellyme, see User:Frietjes/sanfl. Frietjes (talk) 21:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

This seems to work perfectly, I've just updated the 2017 season template with it and nothing is on fire. Thanks for the update! Sellyme^Talk 23:18, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Frietjes, I linked to an example in my previous comment.Tvx1 19:51, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Tvx1, yes, but what is the mathematical relationship between the columns? obviously Pld = W + D + L, and it looks like +/- = LF - LA? what about the rest? Frietjes (talk) 20:48, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes Pld = W + D + L and LF,LA and +/- work like GF,GA and GD (+/- could be renamed to LD). There is no mathematical relationship between the remaining columns.Tvx1 22:29, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Tvx1, I started something ... see User:Frietjes/darts. let me know if you have abbreviations tooltips for the columns. and, we can adjust the parameter names if they aren't optimal. Frietjes (talk) 23:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

I think it's perfect.Tvx1 02:58, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Regarding me, I think we could add optional columns like the ones previously mentioned by me. For the NFL, we could also introduce a win percentage to the WDL submodule, just try to convert this while your at it (It's the NFC Conference standings). Lastly, are these optional columns a possibility? –Piranha249 23:44, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

I was addressing that to Frietjes, by the way. –Piranha249 22:47, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Has anyone come up with some proposals since the last discussion, which was almost two months ago? –Piranha249 20:02, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Piranha249 I'm just seeing this dicussion now, in the NFL table some columns are not clear to me (SOS and SOV). The way it would look would be a bit different after conversion in terms of some of the style choices in that table, to what degree are the design elements set in stone in those articles? One example of some differences is Template:2017–18 NHL Western Conference standings vs Template:2013–14 NHL Western Conference standings, but it could be a bigger difference in this case. CRwikiCA talk 02:21, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

CRwikiCA SOS = Strength of schedule; SOV = Strength of victory. Both are tiebreakers for the Playoffs. –Piranha249 00:36, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Piranha249 Just trying to get the framing up in my limited spare time (without the extra columns for now) and limited entries. It should be possible to add "wildcard" columns to add some of the other columns (streak could be optional). Just take a look below and see what you like/don't like (points for/against probably needs to be dropped, etc.) and how something like this would go over in the articles:

NFC

#	Division	Team	Pld	W	L	T	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	East	z – PHI	16	13	3	0	0	0	0	39
2	North	z – MIN	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
3	West	y – LAR	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
4	South	y – NO	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
5		x – CAR	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
6		x – ATL	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
7		DET	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
8		SEA	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

Source:
x – Clinched playoff berth; y – Clinched division; z – Clinched first-round bye
Notes:

CRwikiCA talk 02:01, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

For one, there are no points system, even though ties exist (they are half a win and half a loss). Other than that, I think it looks fine. –Piranha249 02:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Navbar linebreak in Safari 11.1.1

I'm noticing extraneous linebreaks in sports tables for football, for example, the World Cup group stage tables. Is this a problem with this module or the navbar module? Sceptre (talk) 17:30, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Can you add a new customized column?

I dont understand, but can a customized column be created? Specifically something like fair-play points. Nergaal (talk) 00:55, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Nergaal, where do you want to use this? you can show the bonus points with |show_bonus_points=y. Frietjes (talk) 14:30, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I want to use it for the FIFA WC. The documentation is confusing. Can the header for bonus points be altered? Nergaal (talk) 14:57, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Nergaal, provide a link to where you want to use this. I cannot read your mind. Frietjes (talk) 17:11, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

{{2018 FIFA World Cup Group H table}} Nergaal (talk) 17:15, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

No column should be added, the current format using a note is enough. S.A. Julio (talk) 19:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Where does Sports_table get options from?

I started documenting the options such as sortable_table source and update, but when I look at the code, I don't see what part processes the "sortable_table" option to make the table sortable. So... does Module:Sports_table extend, and inherit options support from, some other more general table module or template? I don't want to duplicate (poorly) what might already be documented elsewhere.

Or if not, does anyone know how to make a list of all the options supported by Sports_table? Great floors (talk) 18:07, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Documentation appears available for the individual style templates, e.g Module:Sports_table/WDL Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:17, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Aha. Thanks again. For sortable_table, there's no documentation in WDL but I do see the part of the code the implements it. Great floors (talk) 00:34, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Great floors Part of the documentation for each style calls a template for generic options (which are defined in the main part). I would urge you to understand the general structure as well to understand what to document where. CRwikiCA talk 01:48, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi CRwikiCA. So, what page documents sortable_table? There's nothing here and nothing on the WDL style. Can you clarify specifically what documentation you urge me to read? Thanks. Great floors (talk) 08:20, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

@Great floors: I didn't see it either. My comment was more general in nature, this Module and its documentation are each a combination of different files. I meant that understanding the structure of both (going beyond how to call it) is essential in writing effective documentation. I do agree that the documentation can be cleaned up quite a bit, some options do not appear to be documented at all. There might be some opportunities for refactoring as well, especially in allowing features from different styles to be shared more easily from a common code base. (Some of this might have been an oversight when I initially designed the module, although it has evolved quite a bit since I have severly reduced my Wikipedia time.) CRwikiCA talk 02:11, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Great floors How far did you get with this/do you have notes on this somewhere? I noticed some features were shared between styles and the documentation was not updated accordingly. CRwikiCA talk 02:23, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Adjust points for WL

It seems that it's not working. See Template:2019 FIBA Basketball World Cup qualification (Americas) – Group F table. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

LOL it's working I'm just bad at math. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:43, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 27 June 2018

Change: local status_letters = 'ACSDEGHOPQRTXYZ'

to: local status_letters = 'ACDEGHOPQRSTXYZ'

To maintain an alphabetical order below the table. CRwikiCA talk 01:57, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

CRwikiCA, "S" is only used in Swedish football articles, where it is an abbreviation for "Swedish Champion". putting it after R would look strange. see 1989 Allsvenskan. Frietjes (talk) 14:11, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Frietjes, it is only used on those articles at the moment. This Module has been a raging success and has been adopted widely, it is reasonable to expect someone to want to use it for some other purpose. In general it will be easiest to find letters back when ordered alphabetically, to change that default for a particular article (ignoring other possible use cases) makes it less of a general purpose Module. To keep this the most general (and in light of the use case of custom order) I would suggest:

• Allow all letters as status letters (A-Z)
• Have default order ABC...Z
• Let the user customize this order (if desired)
• Ensure no letters are missing from the user input

That would make defaults reasonable while giving users maximum flexibility. CRwikiCA talk 01:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

CRwikiCA, okay, now changed so this works. this also enables letters not in the default list (any non-default letters must be listed or they will not appear). Frietjes (talk) 13:39, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

more changes so if you forget to put a letter in the list, it will still show, but will be listed after the ones that you list. and, now all letters will show, but with a '?' if the text is not defined (or one of the presets). Frietjes (talk) 14:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Frietjes Great work! It's always best to incorporate stuff while the changes and code are still fresh in your mind. CRwikiCA talk 02:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Can a custom status letter be also added for "W"? Howard the Duck (talk) 08:49, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Howard the Duck Was already implemented (see below). CRwikiCA talk 02:21, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Promotion, qualification or relegation
1	Team A (W)	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Plain text

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:
(W) Whatever

Many thanks! I'd suggest to allow every letter in the alphabet to be added as a status letter though, if that's possible, so that no one bugs you about this again... Howard the Duck (talk) 07:24, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

That was the request above, which Frietjes implemented. I did not test it, but if anything is missing let us know. :) CRwikiCA talk 02:43, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

I tried using all letters but some didn't show up, like "W". Maybe I didn't save it that's why I didn't see it. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:57, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I think it's not showing up for the WL style? Can somebody check it out? Howard the Duck (talk) 10:16, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Howard the Duck, should work now. it was never added to the WL module. we should really consider merging some of these modules, lots of code duplication. Frietjes (talk) 13:41, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! Yes that's something you guys should look in to. WL can be easily merged with WDL (I think.) Howard the Duck (talk) 10:12, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Merging modules

I have merged Module:Sports table/WL into Module:Sports table/WDL and turned Module:Sports table/WL into a wrapper for Module:Sports table/WDL. this should have zero impact on existing uses and will make these modules easier to maintain since there is far less code duplication. I already did the same for Module:Sports table/WLHA (wrapper for Module:Sports table/WDLHA ) and Module:Sports table/WL OT (wrapper for Module:Sports table/WDL OT). I will be watching for script errors, but please let me know if you see any problems. Frietjes (talk) 16:11, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Optional extra columns

@Frietjes:To keep you busy. There are 2 parameters which affect the number of "points (Pts)". These parameters are "startpoints_XXX" and "adjust_points_XXX". They both work as they should. However if they're used to define a table, it's not visible just like that, that they have been used. Here are 2 examples:

• 2016–17 Eredivisie women championship: Without a comment in front of the table, it's not clear what the number of points for each team is based on. Compare the same table on the Dutch Wiki Eredivisie 2016/17 vrouwen Kampioensgroep
• 2017–18 Tweede Divisie standings: Without the note, it's not clear what the number of points for Achilles '29 is based on. Compare the same table on the Dutch Wiki Tweede divisie 2017/18 Eindstand

On the Dutch Wiki, the module "Sports table" is not used but the tables are defined in the old fashioned way. But, on the Dutch Wiki, because of the extra column, in both scenario's is more clear what the number of points is based on.

Therefore it would be nice, if there would be parameters to add extra columns to the table for these scenario's. Something like "startpoints_column=(y/n)" and "adjust_points_column=(y/n)". The default for both should be "n". You can discuss whether it should be 2 separate columns or a single combined column if both scenario's occur at the same time. My preference would be 2 separate columns. Also, especially for the adjust_points column, it should be possible to define the header value/strings. Mostly it will deal with penalty points, but maybe in some sports it could be bonus points. Also, again especially for the adjust_points column, teams for which this value is not set, the cell should be left blank and not filled with a "0" (zero). --Sb008 (talk) 23:54, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose@Sb008: You should discuss this proposal on WT:FOOTY first. This is a major change Hhkohh (talk) 09:37, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  You just add notes to tell readers about these. No more extra columns should be added unless there is a consensus in WT:FOOTY. The current style works well Hhkohh (talk) 09:50, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  @Sb008: For the second example, this is typically mentioned using a note, for example see the bottom two clubs in Template:2017–18 3. Liga table. The first example is quite strange given the points are halved, though adding a column may add to the confusion. S.A. Julio (talk) 10:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  note that there is a |show_bonus_points= which is by default no. however, it makes no distinction between adjust_points and start_points. Frietjes (talk) 12:50, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  You just add like this edit, clearly not needed adding extra columns Hhkohh (talk) 13:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  @Frietjes: Can we set custom name for bonus points header? Hhkohh (talk) 13:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

  shouldn't be hard to add. Frietjes (talk) 14:45, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes and Hhkohh: First of all, somehow I overlooked |show_bonus_points=. It fills some of my needs, however:

• A custom header name would be desirable (as mentioned should be easy to fix)
• If both |startpoints_XXX= and |adjust_points_XXX= are used for a team, adjust_points_XXX overrules startpoints_XXX completely. ("local s_pts = tonumber(Args['adjust_points_'..team_code_ii]) or tonumber(Args['startpoints_'..team_code_ii]) or 0" First "or" case sets the value). Should be easy to fix as well.
• If the "bonus" column is used, and adjust/start points is set for e.g. just 1 or 2 teams, the value for all other teams in the bonus column will be "0" (zero). I would prefer "blank" unless explicitly set to "0".
• Still would prefer the option to have 2 separate columns if both start and adjust points is used.
• Last, I don't consider this a major change since these columns are optional and therefore none of the existing tables are affected.

--Sb008 (talk) 22:28, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

@Sb008: I want to oppose your second proposal because blank will confuse to readers, they cannot know whether the points is 0 or author forget to write it or we cannot find this kind of information. But I support others Hhkohh (talk) 08:11, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

@Hhkohh: I would say it's exactly the opposite. The context makes it very clear whether indeed a blank or a zero is meant. On the other hand, a column with 17 0's in it and only 1 number is confusing because you have to search for that number. Let's look at the 2 possibilities again:

• Startpoints: The cases I know, all teams receive them. In the case of Dutch women's football the starting points in the second round are half the points achieved in the first round. So if a team got 0 pts in the 1st round, it means half of 0 is 0 starting points in the 2nd round. The number of starting points for each team is defined. If it happens to be 0, it should be shown as 0. As we can see here 2017–18 Eredivisie women Placement for Excelsior/Barendrecht. And starting points don't only occur in Dutch women's football, also e.g. in Belgian men's football and handball.
• Adjust points: If adjust points is used when teams are given penalty points, in general only 1 or 2 teams received penalty points. The other teams are given none. They are not given 0. For those teams the value is undefined. Have a look here: Derde divisie 2017/18 Ranglijst. To put a 0 in the penalty points column for all teams except OFC not only looks terrible but will cause more confusion than blanks because the "-1" becomes a lot less visible.

All in all, a blank if undefined and a 0 if defined as such. Quite common way to do it. --Sb008 (talk) 14:31, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Sb008 I cannot see the article called Derde divisie 2017/18 Ranglijst, please fix it Hhkohh (talk) 14:40, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

@Hhkohh: Fixed

Sb008 okay, I see. Now I think it is better that when using startpoints, it should not blank it, but using adjust points, it can blank it because we must write startpoints to tell how many points they are even they are 0 point started while adjust points can allow us to write how much the team will be punished or bonus and not all teams need writing on Hhkohh (talk) 15:28, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Sb008 If you support my idea, just let Frietjes to work on it Hhkohh (talk) 15:35, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

@Hhkohh: Isn't that exactly what I'm saying from the start? In the adjust point (penalty point) scenario the table cell is left blank whenever the parameter is undefined (In the code there's no line "adjust_points_XXX="). In the startpoint scenario a 0 is placed in the table cell because I define the value as 0 (In the code there is a line saying "startpoints_XXX=0"). Blank unless specifically defined as 0. --Sb008 (talk) 16:45, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Aren't this what notes are for? Why add a column where only one team has an entry? You'd never see such a table in the newspaper. -Koppapa (talk) 11:59, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Non-numeric gf and ga

I have updated the WDL and WL styles to better handle non-numeric input. before the change, any non-numeric or missing input was converted to 0. after the change, any missing input is still converted to 0, but any non-numeric input is unchanged. but, if there is non-numeric input, clearly you can't calculate a goal difference or goal percentage or goal ratio, so an mdash is reported (consistent with what was done before if there was division by zero). let me know if you see any problems. we could do the same for wins, draws, losses, ... with the points left uncalculated if the input is non-numeric. Frietjes (talk) 13:44, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Seems there is an error in Template:2019 Chinese Super League table. When I write |ga_XXX=, it should be converted to 0, not just a blank Hhkohh (talk) 06:56, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes:But the table now only show 1 line, not 16 lines Hhkohh (talk) 14:21, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

should work now. Frietjes (talk) 14:50, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Additional optional columns

So that the U.S.-based teams can use these, perhaps adding Conference, Division, Home and Away columns, and making the text size smaller? Howard the Duck (talk) 11:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck: Why not using Module:Sports table/WDLHA? Hhkohh (talk) 11:54, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

like 2007–08 Football Conference. Not sure this module applies |show_groups=yes and |group_name= Hhkohh (talk) 11:56, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Baseball and basketball do not have tied games. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:16, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I suggest let Frietjes to create Module:Sports table/WLHA Hhkohh (talk) 12:36, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Howard the Duck, in the spirit of reducing the number of submodules, I have added |show_draw=no to Module:Sports table/WDLHA. but, I have also made Module:Sports table/WLHA a shortcut for this option, so you can use that as well (which has show_draw=no as the default). Frietjes (talk) 12:59, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

The NBA and MLB do not use points in ranking teams; instead, both use winning percentage (PCT, denoted to the nearest hundredths) and games behind (GB). Points/runs scored either home or away are never included in league tables. Instead, one column is used for home record, away record, divisional record and conference record, all in W-L format. For example, if you'd use the 2017–18 NBA season#Regular season Atlantic Division standings using that module, you'd get

Pos	Team	Pld	HW	HL	HGF	HGA	AW	AL	AGF	AGA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	Toronto Raptors (Y)	82	34	7	0	0	25	16	0	0	0	177	Clinched division
2	Boston Celtics (X)	82	27	14	0	0	28	13	0	0	0	165	Clinched playoffs
3	Philadelphia 76ers (X)	82	30	11	0	0	22	19	0	0	0	156
4	New York Knicks	82	19	22	0	0	10	31	0	0	0	87
5	Brooklyn Nets	82	15	26	0	0	13	28	0	0	0	84

Source:
Rules for classification: 1) Head-to-head record, 2) Division record, 3) Conference record, 4) Record against playoff teams, 5) Overall point differential
(X) ?; (Y) ?

Which means absolutely nothing to a basketball fan. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:56, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

FWIW, I tried coughing up the simplified conference table, and it actually turned out neat. Howard the Duck (talk) 03:00, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

WL module

If |hide_played=yes is added, games played is still showing up. Please fix. Thanks! Howard the Duck (talk) 10:39, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Howard the Duck, should be fixed. Frietjes (talk) 14:45, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! Howard the Duck (talk) 01:29, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Notes on column headers (e.g. Pts)

In the 2018–19 Tahiti Ligue 1 table, which awards 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw, 1 point for a defeat, I added a sentence so that the readers would be clear about the points system. But I think it would be aesthetically better if I can put this as a note next to the Pts column? Something like:

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation

And I can add the note using something like:

note_header_pts=4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw, 1 point for a defeat.

Also I think this may be helpful in the above discussions where many teams do not start with 0 points. We can just put all the starting points in this note and then there is no need for that extra column. What do you think? (pinging @Hhkohh, Frietjes, Sb008, S.A. Julio, and Koppapa:) Chanheigeorge (talk) 12:57, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

For what you want, a parameter like "note_header_pts" would work. To use the same parameter to get a note indicating starting points, is not something I would prefer. This because the starting points are team specific and not, like in your case, a generic points rule. --Sb008 (talk) 13:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Chanheigeorge and Sb008, the typical way to do this is with class_rules, which is aesthetically better than having the note at the top. Frietjes (talk) 14:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Looks like using class rules is better to me Hhkohh (talk) 14:16, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

But it is not a class rules? Also people in general do not read what is down at the bottom unless prompted. Chanheigeorge (talk) 14:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Also seems weird to me you can add a note to the "Qualification or relegation" column header with "|note_header_res=", but adding a note to another column header is viewed as not aesthetically good. Chanheigeorge (talk) 14:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Frietjes After I review that edit and above comments, maybe we should really add that parameter to make more sense Hhkohh (talk) 14:56, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Nowadays people are reading Wikipedia on their tablets and smartphones, do you think some small prints at the bottom of the table is enough? Chanheigeorge (talk) 15:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

you (1) want a footnote at the bottom of the table for the notes, which are always in small print, (2) you think that the notes should be at the top in large print. good luck making up your mind, I have better things to do. Frietjes (talk) 15:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Chanheigeorge, for me just leave it at the bottom is better Hhkohh (talk) 15:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Easy Access to Full Table

In lots of articles a subset of the table (showing 5 teams) with the current club in the center is shown. I often find myself looking for a way to see the full table, which to do I need click at least 2 times, sometimes more and it isn't obvious. Therefore I have a suggestion.

SUGGESTION: Have a line above the table that says something like "Full Table" that takes the reader to a full table for that league quickly. (Or that creates a popup showing the full table from the template). The easy thing to do is to have it link to the template page - but since that could lead to inadvertent editing on that page - I'd recommend the pop-up or a link to the table on the league's page for that season.

Thoughts? 209.131.254.90 (talk) 19:51, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

More documentation

Anyone willing to help spruce up the documentation? I'm looking at starting to convert {{Fb cl header}} transclusions to use this module but am a bit lost with how to actually use the module. Any chance we could get some more samples in the documentation? I'll absolutely contribute some myself but would be great if someone who is more familiar with the template could get the ball rolling. :-) --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 22:10, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

.... And then I noticed all the subpages... If anyone needs me I'll be sitting over here in the corner with the idiot cap on... --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 22:11, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Zackmann08, using User:Frietjes/fb.js may convert quickly Hhkohh (talk) 22:22, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

You mean Frietjes wrote a userscript?!? OF COURSE she did... Awesome! Thanks Hhkohh!!!— Preceding unsigned comment added by Zackmann08 (talk • contribs) 22:27, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Overtime note

Instead of "Matches with background in a lighter colour were decided after overtime," change to "Matches with background in a lighter shade were decided after overtime." or even "Matches with background in a lighter hue were decided after overtime." (First suggestion is first preference.) "Colour" is problematic since that word is spelled differently in English dialects. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Extra colour

@Frietjes: I noticed you just added a missing colour to the module. On Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/League season#Table formatting (which is the general consensus on the use of colour), there is also another colour mentioned, #FEDCBA (see the column "Extra Color"). Would it be possible to define this colour as well in the module, given it is part of the adopted colouring scheme? Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 14:21, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

S.A. Julio, sure. do you want to call it "extra" or "orange1" or ? Frietjes (talk) 14:22, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, maybe "orange1"? S.A. Julio (talk) 14:27, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

S.A. Julio, okay, added. and I added an orange2 computed using https://www.tutorialrepublic.com/html-reference/html-color-picker.php Frietjes (talk) 14:42, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Great, thanks! S.A. Julio (talk) 17:09, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Optional links on Pld column

I suggest an option for each team to specify a link on the currently unlinked number in the "Pld" column which gives the number of played matches. The main use would be a section in a club season article with a list of the matches. For example, {{2018–19 La Liga table}} might say |pld_BAR=2018–19 FC Barcelona season#Matches to make a link like "22" instead of an unlinked "22" in the row for FC Barcelona. As a reader I often miss easy access to this match information which often includes future matches. The suggestion would produce a lot of repetition like this in the example template:

|pld_ALA=2018–19 Deportivo Alavés season#Matches
|pld_ATH=2018–19 Athletic Bilbao season#Matches
|pld_ATM=2018–19 Atlético Madrid season#Matches
|pld_BAR=2018–19 FC Barcelona season#Matches
|pld_CEL=2018–19 Celta de Vigo season#Matches
|pld_EIB=2018–19 SD Eibar season#Matches
|pld_ESP=2018–19 RCD Espanyol season#Matches
|pld_GET=2018–19 Getafe CF season#Matches
|pld_GIR=2018–19 Girona FC season#Matches
|pld_HUE=2018–19 SD Huesca season#Matches
|pld_LEG=2018–19 CD Leganés season#Matches
|pld_LEV=2018–19 Levante UD season#Matches
|pld_RAY=2018–19 Rayo Vallecano season#Matches
|pld_BET=2018–19 Real Betis season#Matches
|pld_RMA=2018–19 Real Madrid CF season#Matches
|pld_RSO=2018–19 Real Sociedad season#Matches
|pld_SEV=2018–19 Sevilla FC season#Matches
|pld_VAL=2018–19 Valencia CF season#Matches
|pld_VLD=2018–19 Real Valladolid season#Matches
|pld_VIL=2018–19 Villarreal CF season#Matches

There could be code to give default values for some of this with an override if the corresponding team parameter is set. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:48, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier to link the team to the season article in the league table template? Not sure if that is wanted on wikipedia, just thorwing it out there like the NHL, NBA and NFL has it... Kante4 (talk) 23:16, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

It's better if both team and season can be linked when wanted. The "Pld" column gives a natural way to link the season when it has an article. It often doesn't. For example, Category:Association football clubs 2018–19 season has many small subcategories. If it's only the team name which can have a link and it's used for season articles then in many leagues it would give an odd mix of team links and season links, or red links if the season is always linked. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:22, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Managerial record tables

After looking and couldn't find one, is there a sub-module that can produce the following two table styles (used at Jürgen Klopp#Managerial statistics):

Managerial record by team and tenure

Team	From	To	Record					Ref.
			P	W	D	L	Win %
Mainz 05	27 February 2001	30 June 2008	270	109	78	83	040.4
Borussia Dortmund	1 July 2008	30 June 2015	318	179	69	70	056.3
Liverpool	8 October 2015	Present	189	104	49	36	055.0
Total			777	392	196	189	050.5	—

Managerial performance by club, season and competition

Club	Season	League									N. Cup	L. Cup	Europe
		Division	M	W	D	L	GF	GA	Win %	Pos.	Pos.	Pos.	Pos.
Mainz 05	2000–01	2. Bundesliga	12	6	3	3	17	13	050.00	14th	2R	—	—
	2001–02	2. Bundesliga	34	18	10	6	66	38	052.94	4th	R16	—	—
	2002–03	2. Bundesliga	34	19	5	10	64	39	055.88	4th	1R	—	—
	2003–04	2. Bundesliga	34	13	15	6	49	34	038.24	3rd	1R	—	—
	2004–05	Bundesliga	34	12	7	15	50	55	035.29	11th	2R	—	—
	2005–06	Bundesliga	34	9	11	14	46	47	026.47	11th	QF	—	1R
	2006–07	Bundesliga	34	8	10	16	34	57	023.53	16th	1R	—	—
	2007–08	2. Bundesliga	34	16	10	8	62	44	047.06	4th	2R	—	—
	Total		250	101	71	78	388	327	040.40
Borussia Dortmund	2008–09	Bundesliga	34	15	14	5	60	37	044.12	6th	R16	—	1R
	2009–10	Bundesliga	34	16	9	9	54	42	047.06	5th	R16	—	—
	2010–11	Bundesliga	34	23	6	5	67	22	067.65	1st	1R	—	GS
	2011–12	Bundesliga	34	25	6	3	80	25	073.53	1st	W	—	GS
	2012–13	Bundesliga	34	19	9	6	81	42	055.88	2nd	R16	—	F
	2013–14	Bundesliga	34	22	5	7	80	38	064.71	2nd	F	—	QF
	2014–15	Bundesliga	34	13	7	14	47	42	038.24	7th	F	—	R16
	Total		238	133	56	49	469	248	055.88
Liverpool
	2015–16	Premier League	30	13	9	8	55	40	043.33	8th	4R	RU	RU
	2016–17	Premier League	38	22	10	6	78	42	057.89	4th	4R	SF	—
	2017–18	Premier League	38	21	12	5	84	38	055.26	4th	4R	3R	F
	2018–19	Premier League	26	20	5	1	59	15	076.92	1st	3R	3R	R16
	Total		132	76	36	20	276	135	057.58
Career total			620	310	163	147	1,130	710	050.00

If there isn't and someone can help me with this, I'd appreciate it a lot. --Gonnym (talk) 12:40, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

WDL default

@Frietjes: See this revision, if we input nothing in |win= |draw= and |loss=, it should be 0, not just a blank Hhkohh (talk) 09:34, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Goal Ratio/Goal Average

Is there an option to have tables display something like "G. Ave" for "goal average" rather than "GR" for "goal ratio"? All of the older Scottish league tables have "GR" displayed, but the phrase "Goal Average" was always used in the UK football context. I assume Goal Ratio is used elsewhere, but it is not really historically accurate in this context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Craig1989 (talk • contribs) 12:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Craig1989, probably possible, but there could be confusion with "Goals Against" which uses the GA abbreviation. Frietjes (talk) 17:29, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, I believe "GAv" is the typical abbreviation, for example at 1958 FIFA World Cup#Group stage. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

S.A. Julio, we could do that. how about |use_goal_average=y as an alternative to |use_goal_ratio=y where both would be valid parameters. if both are used, we would default to "Goal Ratio" of course. Frietjes (talk) 19:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, sure sounds good! S.A. Julio (talk) 09:15, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

now implemented. Frietjes (talk) 13:47, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for this. Craig1989 (talk) 23:17, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Ability to display different qualification schemes?

I think it would be a good idea for the template to display different qualification schemes according to the needs of the article. For example, in 2018–19 Argentine Primera División#League table, we have the league table which displays how teams qualify for the 2020 South American competitions. And then in 2019 Copa de la Superliga#Seeding, we have the same league table which displays how teams qualify for the 2019 Copa de la Superliga. So now people have to update two tables. Maybe there is a way to solve this, like putting everything about qualification and status for the 2019 Copa de la Superliga with a mark "alt_":

|alt_res_col_header=Starting round
|alt_result1=R16 |alt_result2=R16 |alt_result3=R16 |alt_result4=R16 |alt_result5=R16 |alt_result6=R16 |alt_result7=FR |alt_result8=FR |alt_result9=FR |alt_result10=FR |alt_result11=FR |alt_result12=FR |alt_result13=FR |alt_result14=FR |alt_result15=FR |alt_result16=FR |alt_result17=FR |alt_result18=FR |alt_result19=FR |alt_result20=FR |alt_result21=FR |alt_result22=FR |alt_result23=FR |alt_result24=FR |alt_result25=FR |alt_result26=FR
|alt_col_R16=green1 |alt_text_R16=Round of 16
|alt_col_FR=blue1 |alt_text_FR=First round
|alt_status_ALD=Q |alt_status_ARG=Q ....

And then calling some template parameter like "qualification=alt". So basically when I call the "alt", the "alt_XXX" parameter overrides the original "XXX" parameter. Chanheigeorge (talk) 13:57, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Pinging Frietjes Hhkohh (talk) 13:59, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Chanheigeorge, definitely possible. your suggestion for the syntax is close to what I would implement. we should be able to do this with some simple input preprocessing where we filter out the unprefixed values, and then unprefix the prefixed values. after that, the rest of the module code can proceed without changes. I will start looking at this later today. Frietjes (talk) 14:12, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Thank you for your quick response. Please updated when you have any progress. Chanheigeorge (talk) 14:16, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: I have thought more about this. I think the best way to implement this is to have a parameter simply called "alt", and then you call say, "alt=COPA", and then put all the parameters above as:

|alt_COPA_res_col_header=Starting round
|alt_COPA_result1=R16  |alt_COPA_result2=R16 ....
|alt_COPA_col_R16=green1 |alt_COPA_text_R16=Round of 16
|alt_COPA_col_FR=blue1 |alt_COPA_text_FR=First round
|alt_COPA_status_ALD=Q |alt_COPA_status_ARG=Q ....

This way theoretically the template can support even multiple alternative qualification schemes. Chanheigeorge (talk) 17:09, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Chanheigeorge, I decided to use |result_prefix= since alt is usually for alternative text for images. so, if you add |result_prefix=COPA then it will look for |COPA_res_col_header=, |COPA_result1=, ... instead of the unprefixed versions. let me know if you see an problems. I am also planning to add some basic parameter error checking, but that will take more time. Frietjes (talk) 13:07, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Thank you. I will check later and let you know if there are any problems. Chanheigeorge (talk) 13:17, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: I have tried your code. For example, see Template:2018 Copa América Femenina Final stage. The table at 2018 Copa América Femenina displays the original qualification scheme with World Cup, Olympics and PanAm Games qualification. I use |result_prefix=WC for the table at 2019 FIFA Women's World Cup qualification#CONMEBOL to display only World Cup qualification, and |result_prefix=OL at Football at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Women's qualification#2018 Copa América to display only Olympic qualification. So this part works. However, I don't think I can override statuses, so even if I use |result_prefix= the other table displays the same statuses as the original table. For example, in 2018–19 Argentine Primera División#League table and 2019 Copa de la Superliga#Seeding, they display different statuses (since the league is ongoing). I think it is necessary to override statuses cos otherwise it is only good when the league has finished but not when it is still ongoing. Chanheigeorge (talk) 17:13, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Chanheigeorge, okay, I extended the result_prefix to apply to status 'status_' as well. Frietjes (talk) 14:16, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Wording for competitions starting in future

For some competitions, only the starting month of the competition may be known, for example Template:2020 Copa América group tables. If the start_date parameter has the value [Month] [Year], could the wording output by the module be changed to "will be played in"? Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 17:37, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Automatic V-T-E links

I have boldly added automatic V-T-E links which will appear when the parent of the module is not the same as the pagename, or when the transclusion is in a non-article namespace. please let me know if you see any problems with this. I can add the ability to turn this feature off, or tweak the logic if necessary, but this is very helpful for finding the table when it is transcluded in an article other than the main parent article. Frietjes (talk) 19:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: I had to remove it from the imported module on it.wp because it doesn't work. You might want to make it at least optional. --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 23:57, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

To show a determined number of teams

Is there any possibility to show in one of these tables, a determined number of teams without bolding anyone. E.g, in the Spanish women's league table, to show teams than can be yet relegated, 11th to 16th. Thank you. Asturkian (talk) 08:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Asturkian, in that case, you could use "|highest_pos=11". I could probably add a lowest_pos parameter, but right now, it just shows all below the highest_pos. Frietjes (talk) 13:15, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Frietjes, a lowest_pos parameter would also be useful to allow transcluding on articles like this one: 2015 Football League play-offs#Championship. Thanks, BLAIXX 17:25, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Blaixx, you could use {{2014–15 Football League Championship table|highest_pos=3|showteam=NOR|show_limit=4}} for that particular case, although the colouring and notes will be transcluded from the table as well. Frietjes (talk) 20:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, although that also bolds the indicated team. It might be acceptable in this specific case (as the 3rd place team won the playoff), but it would be strange for when the 5th or 6th team was the winner. BLAIXX 22:43, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

which is why I said "for that particular case". however, since it's not that difficult to add, I have now implemented |lowest_pos=, along with some other arg-processing simplifications. let me know if you see anything strange happening. Frietjes (talk) 15:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Cleaning needed

Some articles are showing "Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'Module:Sports table/...' not found" due to confusion over use of the style parameter. I gather that a code of some kind is needed but the following have css, and that is documented as ok in the template.

• 2008–09 A-League {{A-League 2008-09 Position Ladder|style=...}} Template:A-League 2008-09 Position Ladder
• 2008–09 Melbourne Victory W-League season {{W-League 2008-09 Position Ladder|MV=yes|style=...}} Template:W-League 2008-09 Position Ladder
• 2009 Melbourne Victory W-League season {{W-League 2009 Position Ladder|MV=yes|style=...}} Template:W-League 2009 Position Ladder
• 2011–12 Adelaide United W-League season {{W-League 2011-12 Position Ladder|AU=yes|style=...}} Template:W-League 2011-12 Position Ladder
• 2011–12 in Australian soccer {{W-League 2011-12 Position Ladder|style=...}} Template:W-League 2011-12 Position Ladder
• 2012–13 in Australian soccer {{W-League 2012-13 Position Ladder|style=...}} Template:W-League 2012-13 Position Ladder

Would someone who understands what is needed please fix. Johnuniq (talk) 05:15, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Johnuniq, should be fixed now by removing the invalid style parameter. yesterday, I simplified how "frame args" and "parent args" are processed. unfortunately, this caused the previously ignored invalid style parameter to clobber the correct value upstream. we could go back to the old code, but it would be better (in my opinion) to just fix the transclusions. thank you for the detailed report. Frietjes (talk) 12:24, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I made a couple of changes at Template:2008–09 A-League table/doc that I infer are now needed. Johnuniq (talk) 01:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Suppressing the goal difference/average column

I think it would be useful to have an option allowing the goal difference/average column to be excluded from the output. I've been editing 1895–96 Western Football League and have found that for this season the league abandoned the use of goal average to decide league positions and instead introduced an end-of-season play-off for teams tied on points. With this in mind it doesn't really make sense for goal average to be included in the article, but I can't see any way of removing it (without goal difference appearing instead).

Is this already an option and I've just missed it, or if not does anyone else feel that this would be useful? — GasHeadSteve _[TALK] 11:19, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@Gasheadsteve: I checked the module code, and it looks like someone needs to add support for |use_goal_diff=no to the module for that to work. Otherwise, that column cannot be suppressed. It's either Goal Ratio, Goal Average, Goal Percentage, or Goal Difference. Perhaps Frietjes can help? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:22, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Source

Hi, is that possible to make the "source" part optional ? for example take a look at this 2019 Copa América#Final_ranking, there is no "source" for the general ranking, this is statistic based on results inside the article (all of them well sourced) and also there are some other cases when other sources inside the article already covers that table too. in short I think maybe it's better to make it optional, I just don't think that's a good idea to have "citation needed" in an article like that. right now the only way to avoid that is to add a random link which is also a bad idea. Mohsen1248 (talk) 15:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Mohsen1248, I have seen cases where one just links to the other sections in the article that contain the sources. Frietjes (talk) 19:34, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I see but what about the example of Copa America ?! that's just statistics from results inside the page. what are you going to use as source for that ?! I just think having that option to not use that source thing for certain articles doesn't hurt. Mohsen1248 (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

in that case, it should probably be removed as WP:OR. Frietjes (talk) 13:00, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

maybe but it's not removed. but that's not my point, OK let me try it another way, take a look at this template Template:Football box probably used more than any other sport template, there is a "report" section, which should be filled but if you leave it blank it won't return a "citation needed". this one probably needs a reference more than the table. the same goes for sports templates in other sports such as basketball, Handball etc. to me this is double standard. another example is Template:Medals table probably more similar to this one, still it doesn't force you for a source. you can put the reference anywhere in the article you see fit. Mohsen1248 (talk) 13:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

citation needed doesn't force you to add a source. citation needed tells you that you should add a citation. all information added to WP should have a reliable and verifiable source. the fact that football box doesn't automatically add citation needed but "needs a reference more than the table" is a clear indication that it should tag unsourced information with citation needed. this sports table module is used for handball, basketball, etc. so there is no "double standard". Frietjes (talk) 16:18, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm talking about the handball/basketball box template not this sports table, similar to Football box and It's indeed double standard, you don't automatically add that to those templates if someone leaves the report part blank unlike this one, if it's not a double standard then why for example this one Template:Medals table is different ? why there is no automatically "citation needed" for unsourced tables with that template ? sorry but this is really disappointing to me, I was expecting a better response from you. I really don't think you are even reading what I'm saying here. (the last line of your response clearly proves that, this is completely irreverent to my point, I didn't say it's double standard between football and those sports) I think it was better if you would answer "I'm the boss, and I like it this way, and I'm not changing it no matter what" instead of this answer, that could save both of us time. next time if I ask for some changes and you don't like it, simply write that. Mohsen1248 (talk) 17:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

the automatic addition of the citation needed has been there since this module was created by CRwikiCA in 2014. your response to someone who doesn't agree with you is indeed disappointing. Frietjes (talk) 22:05, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Not more than answering someone without even reading his argument. What else you can say when you have no answer to my legitimate question about double standard. Mohsen1248 (talk) 23:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Without going into the specifics of any page or sport subject - if you present a table with data, that data must be sourced. If it was already previously sourced, then use <ref name="name" />. I'm not sure I understand what the problem is, unless the problem is that you don't want the tag to show up in your article, which if that is the case, is not a valid reason. --Gonnym (talk) 11:43, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, data tables should always have a source. Seems like there is valid reason to suppress the citation needed tag if there is no citation. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:24, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Relegation points table?

Hello! I've already created the table template for the Argentine Primera División standings (here) that is used for showing tables in a seasons article, but I am having difficulty in creating one for the relegation/average points table that Argentine football uses (here). I'm inexperienced when it comes to these type of templates so haven't a clue how to create one/if one exists; I don't see a relegation table listed at Module:Sports table so assume it doesn't. Any help would be much appreciated. R96Skinner (talk) 00:22, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

R96Skinner, as far as I can tell, there is no module or submodule for generating that type of table. Perhaps Frietjes can help (apologies for all the pings :)). Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:25, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Templates are being placed in Category:Templates needing substitution checking

The module, specifically, the WDL style (might be others also) is adding the templates to Category:Templates needing substitution checking. I have no idea how to fix this, but from what I can tell, it has to do with the use of {{Citation needed}}, which uses {{Fix}} which is the one placing the templates in the category. --Gonnym (talk) 19:55, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Gonnym, strange. As far as I can tell there is no obvious way to suppress the category. However, if all of these tables are eventually merged with the articles, then I suppose the problem will be effectively eliminated. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:27, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

New table format for cricket competitions

Could anyone help me (either by guidance on how to code myself, or start things off for me to tweak) to create a module to show tables for cricket tournaments. As an example of current usage there are {{2019 Cricket World Cup points table}}, {{2019 Indian Premier League Points table}} and {{2015 Cricket World Cup Pool A}}

As an explanation:

• The most common results are Wins (generally worth 2 points) and Losses
• There are then separate results for Ties (scores are exactly the same, reasonably rare) and No Results (game is washed out by rain or similar, a lot more common than Ties). The points awarded for the last 2 results are generally the same (1 point).
• The NRR / Net run rate column is used to rank teams equal on points and is obtained by subtracting the overall run rate a team has conceded whilst bowling from the net run rate whilst batting. This calculation uses 4 totals from the games played by a team : ${\frac {\sum RunsScored}{\sum OversFaced}}-{\frac {\sum RunsConceded}{\sum OversBowled}}$. Initially we could just allow for the calculated total to be entered, or have 4 variables per team for each of these sums. Spike 'em (talk) 11:16, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Spike 'em: Has this problem been resolved? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:28, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes:I braved it and wrote it myself! Spike 'em (talk) 18:21, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Some other suggestions

Hi there, first of all thanks a lot for this work. I'm trying extensively this module on it.wp, to see if it's possible to adopt it as a standard for sports table.

I've got some suggestions/requests to be considered, if possible:

1. move the "points" column before the "played" column, and make it optional (like "show_pts = no", for final classification tables);
2. create separate fields for bonus points and penalties (the two things may happen at the same time, unfortunately);
3. adding the possibility of showing a "−" instead of "0" when the field is compiled that way (for excluded/retired teams/players);
4. if possible at all, adding the possibility of compiling "played" and "points" columns (yeah, I found such a case too...).

Please, ping me if you need any clarification, I'm more than happy to help!

Cheers. Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 09:22, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

1. I have added |pts_first=y (or |perc_first=y when using percentages)
2. I would think this is what hth notes are for, but I could be wrong. you should provide an example in an article.
3. This should generally work right now.
4. You should provide an example in an article.

Frietjes (talk) 13:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Thank you for your work again. Sorry for answering two months late, but I needed time to overwrite the old version of the modules and re-check all the tests I did up until now.

So, about the bonus/penalty points, I have to rephrase that: my request is to separate |s_pts into three different fields (bonus, penalties, and starting points) and allow to show explicitly bonus and starting points (penalties can be treated with |hth_note or such). I provided a couple of examples in my sandbox.

About the possibility of compiling the "played" and "points" columns, it's a more complex thing and I still have to trace back that example, so for the moment let's put it apart I've found again the examples, you can find them in the sandbox just below the first ones.

Thanks again! --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 11:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Baseball/Softball

Hi, I wanted to use the module for baseball/softball pages, there is a small problem here, it seems our options are sets/games/goals/points/frames/matches, but in those sports it's about runs. is this possible to add that to the options ? Mohsen1248 (talk) 22:17, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

any answer ? Mohsen1248 (talk) 10:01, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

It looks like it should be simple enough in the WDL module, by adding the below condition:

if for_against_style==

elseif for_against_style=='r' or for_against_style=='run' or for_against_style=='runs' then
        fa_letter = 'R'
        fa_word_sing = 'Run'
        fa_word_plur = 'Runs'

I can't do this myself as I'm not a template editor, but it is possible to add an edit request for this. Is it the WDL version that you want to use? Spike 'em (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes exactly. as simple as that. I thought that already existed for sets' but I was wrong, in some sports (like beach handball) it's about winning sets. I know it's possible to use the "volleyball format" but having that option for sets is even better. Mohsen1248 (talk) 10:45, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

I've added this code to {{#invoke:Sports table/WDL/sandbox|function}}, so can you try this (by doing {{#invoke:Sports table|main|style=WDL/sandbox|for_against_style=R/run/runs|... and if that works then I'll make an edit request. As an example

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	RF	RA	RD	Pts
1	FIFA World Cup Dream Team	5	5	0	0	10	0	+10	15
2	Team 2	5	3	1	1	3	2	+1	10
3	Team 3	5	3	0	2	3	3	0	9
4	DDD	5	1	1	3	1	4	−3	4
5	Gibraltar	5	0	0	5	0	6	−6	0

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

Spike 'em (talk) 11:45, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, that worked well. even though I had to try it with {{#invoke:Sports table|main|style=WL/sandbox because there is no "draw" in those sports. the outcome was the same though. I really appreciate your answer. and while you are doing this, is that possible fix some codes for "sets" this is probably just a mistake

elseif for_against_style=='m' or for_against_style=='set' or for_against_style=='matches' then
        fa_letter = 'M'
        fa_word_sing = 'Match'
        fa_word_plur = 'Matches'

I assume someone wanted to create different codes for sets and matches but mixed them together by mistake. I think there should be separate codes for sets like this:

elseif for_against_style=='s' or for_against_style=='set' or for_against_style=='sets' then
        fa_letter = 'S'
        fa_word_sing = 'Set'
        fa_word_plur = 'Sets'

Mohsen1248 (talk) 12:13, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

I had noticed that and was in the process of changing that in the sandbox version (so please try again)! The WL module just calls the WDL one with one of the necessary parameters set, so any change to the live version will do the same. I'll go ahead and make the edit request and see if anyone answers that. Spike 'em (talk) 12:22, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 19 August 2019

As per discussion above, and as tested in WDL/sandbox, in the code block starting:

for_against_style = string.lower(for_against_style)
if for_against_style=='g' or for_against_style=='goal' or for_against_style=='goals' then

change the following (which originated here) from

elseif for_against_style=='m' or for_against_style=='set' or for_against_style=='matches' then

to

elseif for_against_style=='m' or for_against_style=='match' or for_against_style=='matches' then

and add 2 new options for sets and runs:

elseif for_against_style=='s' or for_against_style=='set' or for_against_style=='sets' then
        fa_letter = 'S'
        fa_word_sing = 'Set'
        fa_word_plur = 'Sets'		
elseif for_against_style=='r' or for_against_style=='run' or for_against_style=='runs' then
        fa_letter = 'R'
        fa_word_sing = 'Run'
        fa_word_plur = 'Runs'

before

elseif for_against_style=='none' then

Spike 'em (talk) 12:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

probably done. Frietjes (talk) 13:16, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, looks good in the test I setup. Spike 'em (talk) 13:33, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Additional column with bonus points

Hi, I'm thinking of using Module:Sports table in articles related to motorcycle speedway. But in many leagues there is a additional bonus points column. I like the WDL style table, but it must have extra bonus column. Please tell me what should I do. I need to create a new WDL based module with extra column? Or it's more complex problem and some changes in Module:Sports table are needed? Klima (talk) 11:28, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

If you use WDL, you can use |show_bonus_points=yes in the module setup to display a bonus points column and |adjust_points_AAA=0 and |adjust_points_BBB=1 to assign bonuses to the individual teams in the data. Spike 'em (talk) 11:59, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

e.g.

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	PF	PA	PD	BP	Pts
1	Team A	5	5	0	0	10	0	+10	0	15
2	Team 2	5	3	1	1	3	2	+1	−1	9
3	Team 3	5	3	0	2	3	3	0	0	9
4	DDD	5	1	1	3	1	4	−3	0	4
5	The E's	5	0	0	5	0	6	−6	3	3

Updated to match(es) played on unknown. Source:

Spike 'em (talk) 12:05, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I study module documentation, but missed |show_bonus_points= parameter. Klima (talk) 16:44, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Input arg check

I added an initial attempt at input argument parameter checking to find typos or other unintended output. this is definitely a work in progress, but at the moment, it should be only generating false positives, and only using hidden tracking categories (and notes in preview). please let me know if you see any serious problems. I will be working on making the tracking more meaningful and accurate of the next several days. the base category for the tracking is Category:Sports table tracking with subcategories for various issues. I would definitely note worry about the "ignored parameters" category right now, since some of those are parameters which may be implemented in the future. I will try to document each category as soon as the categories fill up. Frietjes (talk) 16:48, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Team list

Basic usage of WDL module for listing 20 team positions is like:

|team1=ARS |team2=AVL |team3=BOU|team4=BHA |team5=BUR |team6=CHE |team7=CRY |team8=EVE|team9=LEI|team10=LIV |team11=MCI |team12=MUN |team13=NEW |team14=NOR |team15=SHU |team16=SOU |team17=TOT |team18=WAT |team19=WHU |team20=WOL

Updating team positions after a single match is played is awkward: See [1]

|team1=LIV |team2=ARS |team3=AVL |team4=BOU |team5=BHA |team6=BUR |team7=CHE |team8=CRY |team9=EVE |team10=LEI |team11=MCI |team12=MUN |team13=NEW |team14=SHU |team15=SOU |team16=TOT |team17=WAT |team18=WHU |team19=WOL |team20=NOR

Wouldn't it be possible to allow a parameter team_list? like:

|team_list==ARS,AVL,BOU,BHA,BUR,CHE,CRY,EVE,LEI,LIV,MCI,MUN,NEW,NOR,SHU,SOU,TOT,WAT,WHU,WOL

That would make changes easier to handle:

|team_list==LIV,ARS,AVL,BOU,BHA,BUR,CHE,CRY,EVE,LEI,MCI,MUN,NEW,SHU,SOU,TOT,WAT,WHU,WOL,NOR

Cheers,--Tykyheg (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Tykyheg, okay, this should work now, but using |team_order=LIV, ARS, ... I have also been thinking we could probably make the team ordering automatic with some keyword, but that would require more work. Frietjes (talk) 15:03, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

If the order is based on the points column (as an example), then that can be used to initially sort the data into an array then continue with the rest of the code based on that. --Gonnym (talk) 15:33, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

This change in articles edited by experienced editors who have been using this module for years may come with some resistance, I wonder if it should be discussed somewhere where more responses would be expected. I like the automatic ordering idea, but it sounds difficult considering the different tie-breaking rules in each league. Equineducklings (talk) 15:50, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Could you give an example of a league table you'd think would be hard to implement it for? From the various tables I've seen, there seems to always be a column that the team order is based on. --Gonnym (talk) 15:53, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

if I recall, we had about 7 different orderings in the old {{fb cl footer}} so we could have something like |team_order=Pts/GD/GF which would mean 1) points, 2) goal difference, 3) Goals for. of course, the default would be to have the order manually specified. unfortunately, the way that the module currently works, it will require either 2 passes, or some post processing to fix the order after the first pass. Frietjes (talk) 15:56, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I imagine implementation may be more difficult when head-to-head is the tie-breaker, which many leagues use, some as the first tie-breaker. Maybe it's easier than I assume, though. Equineducklings (talk) 16:01, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

no, you are correct, making head-to-head work automatically would be difficult, and probably not possible to code for all the cases. the question is if it's worth it to have the option to auto sort for some cases. just because we can't make automatic sorting work for all cases doesn't mean we can't have as an option for some cases. Frietjes (talk) 16:12, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Like I said, I like the idea, I just wasn't sure how difficult it would be. If it was done automatically and editors have to adjust manual for head-to-head, I'm sure it would work smoothly. Adjustments and notes are already needed to deal with head-to-head anyway. Equineducklings (talk) 16:54, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I do think this would be an extremely useful option to have. I'm also curious if it would be possible to have an entire table built from all the match results? Basically formatting the information as done with Module:Sports results, except the module would then calculate each team's W/D/L/GF/GA from these results. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:45, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Agree, would make it much easier to have it kind of automatic. With the results or "just" by adding the data. Kante4 (talk) 18:30, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Volleyball

I want to ask for some changes for Module:Sports table/Volleyball

1) In general in tables for football and other sports, you have that option to sometimes leave it blank or put something like "—" in case all results are not available, this option is not possible with volleyball, the table replaces it with a Zero. I hope this can be the same as other sports, for both Sets and Points.

2) If Sl or Spl = 0 and sw/spw has a value (and not zero) the outcome for SR/SPR should be "MAX" and not "—", this is how it works for FIVB tables.

3) I'm not sure if this one is possible but it doesn't hurt asking, in past for a period time, SPR has adventage over SR as the first tiebreaker , is it possible to have that option to have those columns of SPW/SPL/SPR before SW/SL/SR ? Mohsen1248 (talk) 14:18, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

1) Blank defaults to zero per this comment from Hhkohh which I don't agree with. However, making it so '-' works shouldn't be a problem (now done). 2) probably done now. 3) for football, we have |loss_before_draw=y so we could probably do something similar here, just need to decide on the parameter. how about |setpoints_before_sets=y? Frietjes (talk) 19:41, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. 1 and 2 changes look very good. and that's also a good parameter, I just want to ask something more if possible. is it possible to simply remove the SPW/SPL/SPR columns in case most results are not available in details (pages like this) ? Mohsen1248 (talk) 01:21, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Mohsen1248, okay, this should work now: |setpoints_before_sets=y (default no), |show_sets=n (default yes), and |show_setpoints=n (default yes). Frietjes (talk) 18:36, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, works perfectly. Mohsen1248 (talk) 19:34, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Qualification notes

@Frietjes: Would it be possible to hide the notes that are displayed here? As the qualification column is not meant to be displayed on this page, the note is "stranded". S.A. Julio (talk) 00:08, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

S.A. Julio, fixed for that particular case. the code for that aspect is not very robust. for example, it looks like it may do the same thing if that column is entirely empty but not explicitly suppressed with the |only_pld_pts=y option. I will work on it more later. Frietjes (talk) 12:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Great, thank you! S.A. Julio (talk) 16:12, 31 October 2019 (UTC)