Talk:1958 FIFA World Cup

Latest comment: 3 years ago by Metufit in topic The use of Goal average in this tournament

Requested move

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Football World Cup 1958 → 1958 FIFA World Cup – following the consensus of naming the World Cup articles as FIFA World Cup in Wikipedia, and consistency of naming the major international football tournaments.

Discuss here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Competitions#Requested move of Football World Cup articles. --Pkchan 10:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)Reply

Moved per consensus. --Pkchan 13:01, 10 March 2006 (UTC)Reply


The use of Goal average in this tournament

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FIFA had not decided how goal average would be used in this tournament. This report, posted on june 12 was halfway through the group stages.

From a report in The Times, Friday, Jun 13, 1958, pg. 15

Stockholm June 12
GOAL AVERAGE MAY DECIDE WORLD CUP

... The tables now take on new significane because in the last day or two the F.I.F.A. organizing committee have apparently decided, though it has not been announced, that goal average shall play a bigger part than originally intended and is now of primary importance after the points awarded. ... [I]f Brazil and Russia draw and England win, these three would have four points each and goal averages would play thier part. A replay will only be neccesary if goal averages are equal.


From a report in The Times, Saturday, Jun 14, 1958, pg. 10

Stockholm June 13
GLOOMY WORLD CUP TEAM NEWS

... There seems to have been a muddle over the various statements on goal average. Sir Stanley Rous, speaking at longe[sic] range to me this morning, said that the British text was now the one chosen and that a play-off between sides of equal points would have priority over actual goal average which would count only if the play-were indecisive--or words to that effect.


From a report in The Times, Tuesday, Jun 17, 1958, pg. 3

THREE PLAY-OFFS IN THE WORLD CUP
EXTRA TIME ALLOWED

All three play-offs to-day in the World Cup Association Football competition will be begun at 7 p.m. (B.S.T.) ... Extra time will be played, if necessary and should the teams still be level, the goal average of their three previous group matches will count. If these are identical for both countries a draw by lot would decide the qualifier.

--Reuter

So as you see there was some confusion about how goal average would be used. I can't find any reference as to why France were placed above Yugoslavia in the group, but it seems logical that as both teams had qualified then a play-off was unecessary. Perhaps they drew lots, perhaps it was because they won 2 games while Yugoslavia won 1 and dreew 2. But it's probably more likely that they simply used goal average. This was basically what I had written before, but I had forgotten the details and got confused. Jooler 11:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Assuming the above to be correct then as goal average was only of consequence with regarding France Yugoslava, I decided to leave it out. Also all of the tables that accompany the above reports, and indeed FIFAs own tables here - http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/p/pwc/r/1958.html do not show GAv, but I don't care if you put it in. However goal difference should definitely not be put in. Jooler 11:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Mmm. As far as I have understood, goal average has been used. They say that play-offs have the priority, but after extra-time, if still level, GAv is used. So we should put it in. And, IMO, it is likely that it has been used to determine who placed 1st between France and Yugoslavia. The criteria were, in order of priority:

1. Play-Offs
2. Goal Average
3. Drawing Lots

I think that it would be a good assumption to say that when no play-off has been played, then the 2nd criterion has been used. --Calippo 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

As you please. I seem to remember that I started to add goal average to one of the tournaments and then decided not to as I was unsure of the situatiohn of having infinite goal average. Indeed I've read a contempary report in the times (probably from 1962) which says the FIFA were unsure of whether a team with goals for/against of 1:1 should be placed above or below a team with a ratio of 0:0. Apologies for my mistake earlier, a red mist came down when I saw goal difference. Jooler 13:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
Yeah I know why I didn't include GAv now. I don't really like seeing the infinity sign in there. If sone team had a for/against of 5:0 and another had 4:0 they'd both have infinite goal average. Jooler 15:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

France finished above Yugoslavia on goal average. The goal average was used to determined the first and second place, third and fourth place, while the second place and third place were determined by play-off, and if play-off after 120 minutes was still draw, also goal average was used.

Metufit (talk) 08:37, 2 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Altafini

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Josè Altafini used the nickname "Mazzola" when in Brazil. Some sources report "Mazola", a likely portuguese mispelling of the name of the italian player Valentino Mazzola. Later he dropped the nickname and he was known simply as Altafini. Since the FIFA match report indicates him as "Josè Altafini", it's better to call him this way. --Calippo 12:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Brazilian Flag

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The flag in 1958 is not the same they have today (it has been changed in 1960 and then again in 1992). --Calippo 12:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

This is true, however I did a web search to find what the flag was in the two previous incarnations, and all I could find were sites in Portugese. Do you know of any sites which discribe the changes in the flag exactly, if so I can make up the two intermediate flags. -- Deville (Talk) 02:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)Reply
To follow up, they use the current flag on the Portugese side as well, and as far as I can tell noone has made the flags for the Portugese WP either. -- Deville (Talk) 02:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

Fair use rationale for Image:1958 Football World Cup poster.jpg

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Image:1958 Football World Cup poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)Reply

Peter McParland

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The above is credited with 5 goals; yet according to the article NI only scored 4 goals in the whole competition. Lucian Sunday (talk) 18:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

I've corrected it now. – PeeJay 19:00, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Reply
Sorry Peejay - I've looked agaon NI did score 5 (all PMCP) - It is the group table GF that is wrong. Lucian Sunday (talk) 06:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Reply
NO even that was not wrong - there was an extra play off game that I completely missed...I'll get my coat. Lucian Sunday (talk) 07:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Reply
The GA for NI in Group 1 continue being wrong. Right now the table shows 3 GA for NI. However, NI got 5 GA in this Group 1, without counting the playoff game. If we counted the playoff (which we shouldn't, because the table describes points, goals, etc. for the regular round), then NI would have 6 GA. But the table must show 5. After all, the two columns GF and GA must sum up to the same value (24 in this case), but they don't. I don't know how to correct this. --Harry Foundalis (talk) 02:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)Reply
  Fixed. S.A. Julio (talk) 02:32, 29 April 2020 (UTC)Reply

First goal v Scotland

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The FIFA report shows Piantoni as scorer, but all other sources, including the website of the French Football Federation and the video footage shows the goal was scored by Raymond Kopa.

I've removed the "citation needed" tag you added. After all, you acknowledge that the official FIFA report states that Piantoni scored the goal. – PeeJay 16:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

did Brazil won the world cup by tossing?

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i have herd a rumor that Brazil won the world cup two times by tossing... but i couldn't find any fact on it. can any body tell me the truth please:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.21.178.242 (talk) 10:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

The World Cup has never been decided by the toss of a coin (I assume that's what you meant by tossing, as the other meaning is quite vulgar). – PeeJay 23:07, 8 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Didi Best Player - Golden Ball

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Didi was retroactively given the golden ball as the best player by Fifa , I Believe this should be mentioned Here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.191.4.240 (talkcontribs) 2011-10-24T00:01:58

If you have a reference, add it. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

Stadium table

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I am dubious of the value of photos of stadiums taken decades after the World Cup, given that significant alterations will have been made in the intervening years. In any case, I don't think the extra prettiness justifies removing factual information, so I have readded it. If you can prettify the format without removing the info, fair enough. jnestorius(talk) 10:06, 6 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

IFK Malmö Jersey

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The article say: "Argentina forgot to bring their change strip, and borrowed the yellow shirt of host team IFK Malmö". This is not true, in fact, before the match and because the jerseys of both teams can confuse the TV audience, the FIFA make a toin coss, Argentina loss, so, they change his jerseys...nothing to do with they forgot their change strip (at that time, the Argentina away strip was white!!!!!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.137.91.137 (talk) 02:12, 26 May 2016 (UTC)Reply

Albert Dusch

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German referee Albert Dusch is not listed in the Match Officials section, but I'm not skilled enough to add him to the list without breaking it. He is, however, mentioned in the mini match summaries for the 2 matches that he refereed. Ukdan999 (talk) 09:56, 24 December 2017 (UTC)Reply