Talk:1990 Football League Second Division play-off final

Top scorers

For Swindon:

• Duncan Shearer: 20 in the league, 4 in League Cup, 1 in FA Cup
• Steve White: 18 in the league, 5 in the League Cup
• Alan McLoughlin: 12 in the league, 4 in the League Cup

Plowman, Paul (2009). Swindon Town – 1879–2009 – A history in facts and figures – The Combined Volume. Footprint Publications. pp. 224–225. ISBN 978-0-9562819-0-6.

To do

1. Background
2. Match report
3. Post-match reaction
4. Illegal payments

The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 21:05, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Top scorers (2)

@The Rambling Man:, as requested:

Sunderland top scorer: Marco Gabbiadini (25 goals; 21 in league, 4 in League Cup)

Sunderland second top scorer: Gordon Armstrong (13 goals; 8 in league, 1 in FA Cup, 3 in League Cup, 1 in Full Members’ Cup).

Sunderland source: <ref>{{cite book |editor-first=Jack |editor-last=Rollin |title=Rothmans Football Yearbook 1990–91 |year=1990 |publisher=Queen Anne Press |location=London |isbn=978-0-356-17911-7 |pages=524–525, 644–650, 652, 673}}</ref>

Swindon top scorer: Duncan Shearer (26 goals; 20 in league, 1 in FA Cup, 4 in League Cup, 1 in Full Members’ Cup)

Swindon second top scorer: Steve White (25 goals; 18 in league, 5 in League Cup, 2 in Full Members’ Cup)

Swindon source: <ref>{{cite book |editor-first=Jack |editor-last=Rollin |title=Rothmans Football Yearbook 1990–91 |year=1990 |publisher=Queen Anne Press |location=London |isbn=978-0-356-17911-7 |pages=536–537, 644–650, 653–654, 672}}</ref>

Mattythewhite (talk) 18:50, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Sauce

Preview

• Guardian brief prev  Done
• Newcastle Journal scandal prev  Done
• Evening Herald Alan McLoughlin  Not done
• Newcastle Journal prev, tickets, squad  Done
• Sandwell Evening Mail linos!  Done
• Newcastle Evening Chronicle  Done
• Newcastle Evening Chronicle ii  Done
• Newcastle Journal  Done
• Newcastle Journal ii  Done
• Newcastle Journal iii  Done
• Newcastle Journal iv  Not done
• NEC Wembley special etc etc
• Aberdeen P&J  Not done
• Newcastle Journal special

Match

• Guardian match report  Done
• Newcastle Evening Chronicle  Done
• Mattick, pp. 104–106.  Done
• Sunderland official history, pp. 273–276.
• Newcastle Journal

Post-match

• Reading Evening Post
• Northern Echo remembers...

Scandal

• Guardian Macari/Hillier et al arrest
• Guardian FL inquiry
• Guardian demotion report
• Observer who gets the spare place?
• Guardian Sunderland get it, that's who!

Illegal payments section

This lot was unreferenced:

Although they won the promotion play-offs, Swindon Town did not compete in the First Division during the following season. The 1989–90 season had seen the club charged with 36 breaches of Football League regulations – 35 of which related to illegal payments made to players between 1985 and 1989. A hearing to decide the club's fate was scheduled for 4 May – before the play-offs began – but this was postponed on legal advice just days before it was due when Swindon chairman Brian Hillier, club accountant Vince Farrar and former team manager Lou Macari were all charged by police for "intent to defraud Inland Revenue by making payments without deducting tax or NI". (In July 1992 both Hillier and Farrar were found guilty of these charges, while Macari was cleared). Hillier and Macari had already been punished by the FA in February 1990 for their involvement in a £6,500 bet being placed on Swindon losing to Newcastle United in a tie during the 1987–88 FA Cup. The bet was successful and netted £4,000 winnings. As this activity ran counter to FA rules that forbid any bets by club officials or players on their own team, both were found guilty. Hillier was given a six-month suspension from football, but after he (unsuccessfully) appealed, the FA increased it to three years. Macari was fined £1,000 (upheld after his own appeal), and Swindon Town given a £7,500 fine. At a Football League hearing on 7 June, Swindon pleaded guilty to all 36 charges against them and admitted a further twenty. The league decreed that the club would be denied promotion and instead demoted to the Third Division. Six days later, it was announced that losing play-off finalists Sunderland would be instead promoted to the First Division. This was controversial as Newcastle felt that as they had finished third, three places above bitter rivals Sunderland, they should have been promoted instead. The FA's decision stood and Sunderland were promoted. Swindon launched a High Court appeal against the Football League's double demotion, claiming it to be "harsh, oppressive and disproportionate to previous penalties". However, within days they dropped this action and instead appealed directly to the FA. On 2 July an FA Appeal Panel reduced the punishment to the club simply remaining in the Second Division; Tranmere Rovers – the losing play-off finalists in the Third Division – who were to have replaced Swindon in the second level were therefore denied promotion.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1990 Football League Second Division play-off Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 18:26, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -
• It contains copyright infringements -
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -

Prose

Lede

• This was the first season that the play-off final was determined in a single match at Wembley. - probably worth mentioning it was previously a two-legged match, rather than a single match held elsewhere. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:22, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  That is covered in more detail in the main body. I don't think it's super-important for the lead. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:45, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  I think all I am suggesting is to the omit the bit about Wembley, as that isn't what you are talking about (IE, that this was the first single match final). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  Lee Vilenski It was also the first play-off final at Wembley though? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:49, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  I get that. I think it should read "This was the first season that the play-off final was determined over a single match and the first to be held at Wembley", unless this isn't true? This is quite a minor point, so happy to promote anyway. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

  Sure, I'll word it that way. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 11:04, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

• Is the referee non-notable? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:22, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  Yep, there's a purge on referee articles right now. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:45, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Swindon Town were later demoted two divisions after being found guilty of financial irregularities which resulted in Sunderland gaining promotion. On appeal, Swindon's punishment was reduced to immediate relegation back to the Second Division. - this should really be a bigger point. Although Sunderland lost the match, they were promoted. Quite a big thing! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:22, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  This is the lead, what else would you expect to see here other than a summary of the pertinent facts of the matter? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:45, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

General

• regular 1990–91 season - never been a fan of this wording. Makes it sound like the playoffs is irregular. how about "91 league season"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  I understand your concern but this is to distinguish between the regular league season and the play-off aspect of the league season. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Wembley (Stadium) isn't linked outside of lede. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  Linked. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Match should probably have the bit about when/where in the background bit. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  The when and where is "The match kicked off at 3 p.m. in sunny conditions on 28 May 1990 in front of a Wembley crowd of 72,873" at the start of the match section. It's in there to ensure we don't have a tiny sentence at the start of the match section. And it makes the match report section completely standalone/comprehensive. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• All three referees called John? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  I know! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• He added "Right - caps. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

  Start of the sentence, so I've added a colon preceding it, which does the trick. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Swindon ended their following season in 21st place in the Second Division, two points above the relegation zone.[35][36] Sunderland were relegated back to the Second Division by the end of the next season, finishing in 19th place.[37][38]

[39] - something wrong with the formatting here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

• Addressed. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski cheers, all addressed/responded to above. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:26, 6 March 2021 (UTC)