Talk:1993 UEFA Champions League final

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On 22 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from 1993 UEFA Champions League Final to 1993 UEFA Champions League final. The result of the discussion was moved.

Fair use rationale for Image:Ecf1993.jpg

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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BetacommandBot 07:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)Reply

Poster

Latest comment: 15 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Please, look at the poster before modifying this page. There's the official name of this match. Goodbye!--Akrothiri (talk) 18:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)Reply

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/history/season=1992/intro.html Sorry but there you can read. This was the first year it was known as the Champions League chan dler ··· 18:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)Reply

European Cup Final?

Latest comment: 3 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

The edit war (see history) only made the article worse. The title is currently at odds with the poster image ("38th European champion clubs' cup final" - "European Cup final" also used in English media in 1993). The information in the article is poor and doesn't explain the disparity.

Can we get an explanation of this in the article? Is it true the CL branding applied only to the group stage, not the final at this time? Did UEFA change the final's name retroactively?

The rude person above didn't give evidence that UEFA called this a "Champions League" final at the time.

The link he provided from UEFA.com in the 2000s also uses the old competition name, confusingly – and it does not specify the final's name.
"Rules and regulations dominated the start and finish of the 1992/93 European Champion Clubs' Cup. Sandwiched in between, however, was some fairly tasty football. No sooner had the legislators rebranded the competition as the UEFA Champions League - formalising the mini-league system of the previous year - than they were forced to reinstate first-round losers Leeds United AFC."

There are also inaccurate statements in the article,
e.g. "The final, which followed the second-ever UEFA Champions League group stage, ..."
but 1991–92 wasn't a "UEFA Champions League". - Demokra (talk) 03:28, 26 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

There's no question the article should remain at its current title, but of course it is fair to mention the fact that it was not originally known as the "Champions League final". Would be good to find some decent sources for that, but if we don't mention it, we're not covering the subject as comprehensively as we could. – Pee Jay 08:51, 26 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

In this article published on "El Mundo Deportivo" [1] it's written that the denomination "Champions League" refers only to the group stage. I rewrite a piece of the article: "El organismo futbolístico impidió la creación de una competición paralela y ahora [...] ha constituído la denominada 'Liga de Campeones', que viene a ser equivalente a la liguilla de cuartos de final de a pasada edición". --Stephan Sensuality (talk) 18:39, 11 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Works for me. – Pee Jay 18:42, 11 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

In this article [2] it's written that 8 teams play in the "Champions League" and 24 matches are scheduled (therefore the final is excluded). Text (Spanish): "De momento este año la UEFA premiará con un trofeo al equipo más déportivo entre los ocho que participarán en la Liga de Campeones [...] a lo largo de los 24 partidos de que consta la competición". --Stephan Sensuality (talk) 18:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 22 December 2022

Latest comment: 1 year ago13 comments11 people in discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. per discussion consensus. I perform all my closes the same way: 1) examine the rough proportionality of the different sides, though this is WP:NOTAVOTE, it still matters how many said what. In this case, it's a 50/50 split, and that would typically go no-consensus, but again, this is NOTAVOTE and the arguments themselves matter. 2) I next examine the arguments themselves. Who was saying what, and what evidence was provided? In this case, those in favor of the move provided some sources which demonstrated non-uniform usage. They also cited policy and recent discussions which demonstrate some local consensus on related issues. Those opposing the move simply stated that the name is a proper noun, including "F" in "Final". Some opposed participants also stated that some but not all sources use "F". No participants contend that "F" in "Final" is uniformly capitalized across sources. 3) Next, I examine the policy. In this case, the policy in WP:NCCAPS and MOS:SPORTCAPS is pretty clear: in order for us to capitalize, it should be usually capitalized in our sources. Otherwise, the default is to not capitalize and use sentence case. As indicated by participants on all sides, there are sources where the "F" is not capitalized, it is not uniform and a lowercase "f" does not appear to be particularly rare. This is one of those extremely rare cases where a 50/50 split is actually a consensus, due to the arguments themselves. Arguments made about proper noun usage and some sources do not appear to have been convincing to naive participants joining this discussion. In such cases, we default to policy, which in this case, per the discussion, would result in the pages being moved to the lowercase "f". Any questions? Ask on my talk page. Thanks! (closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 15:42, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

– As discussed on the 1930 World Cup talk page, the "F" in the final should be lowercase per WP:NCCAPS, as it's not a proper noun. 2600:1700:31BA:9410:901E:79FA:9205:1A1E (talk) 01:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. echidnaLives - talk - edits 01:17, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Oppose it is a proper noun, just like it was for all those articles that were moved incorrectly in my opinion. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:43, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. Giant Snowman 20:11, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Support - I also disagree with the last RM consensus and MOS:CAPS talks about "unnecessary" capitalisation (which this is not), but official sources use both Final and final, as do third party sources, but I think 'final' is more common. Giant Snowman 20:15, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Support as this title is the most recent example on the way the article I'm referring to has been titled. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 22:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Oppose - UEFA tends to treat it as a proper noun, as do some (but not all) sources. The World Cup ones should be moved back too. – Pee Jay 21:37, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Comment: Does this include the European cup finals? Also, I think there should be a more general discussion about this, considering there are various tournament/competition finals using the same title capitalisation as the Champions League final pages (including non-association football articles). —Jonny Nixon (talk) 16:32, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Relisting comment: To form a clearer consensus echidnaLives - talk - edits 01:17, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Note: WikiProject Football has been notified of this discussion. echidnaLives - talk - edits 01:18, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Oppose and revert the previous moves. This nonsense has gone on long enough. It's mostly treated as a proper noun. O.N.R. ^(talk) 07:08, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Oppose. Per above and same with the other moves who were done. Kante4 (talk) 09:32, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply
Support Per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS, final should be lower case as the event is not a proper noun. This would be consistent with the consensuses at Talk:UEFA Women's Euro 1995 final#Requested move 19 November 2022 and Talk:1930 FIFA World Cup final#Requested move 12 December 2022. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:19, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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