Talk:1997 Albanian civil unrest/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Comments

THis article is very simplsitic it has nothing about a counter revolution by communists in it nor about the tribal splits between North and South Albania Nor the histoirical perspactive of eth brutal socialist regieme and how in aftermath the past was totally rubbished Ther eare no references tro honor code nor Itlian / capitalist western influences. there is mor ehere http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/Albania.html http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv4n1/albania.htm http://libcom.org/history/1997-the-albanian-insurrection http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/jan-june97/albania_4-1.html http://www.basicint.org/pubs/Papers/BP21.htm http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19970127/ai_n9646213 but I have not time to edit this into an article NOW —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.250.78.91 (talk) 16:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC) This is a horrendous stub. I didn't want it to become a pet project but no work has been done since I've established it, so I'm going to try to do more research to see if I can't make something of it. Cheers. Zanturaeon 23:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

done :) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 00:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey ot was my unsigned comment - now its been published my article http://www.ovimagazine.com/art/4443 but most of the critiques qe brought in now anyway! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.193.75.144 (talk) 18:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

changed 'anarchy' to 'chaos'

I've just changed the word 'anarchy' to 'chaos', because anarchy (in political science) has got nothing to do with this, or at least is controversial, so I believe the word 'chaos' is what expressess more accurately the situation. The article is quite good, by the way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.100.41.71 (talk) 17:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

Which is it?

There's a difference between a pyramid scheme and a Ponzi scheme. Or were both present? --Passargea (talk) 01:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it was the pyramid schemes, not the specific Ponzi schemes!--_{A B X} ^{T • ៛} 08:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

wording

Does "Armed Gangs from Southern Albania" vs. "Voluntary Forces from Northern Albania" reflect any factual difference, or is it someone's personal opinion? -- AnonMoos (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2011 (UTC) well, no !! armed gangs during 1997 crisis were all from southern albania, like zani caushi gang, gaxhai gang (both from vlora), altin dardha gang (berat) and aldo bare gang (lushnje). voluntary forces were from northern albania because this was the region under government influence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Njeriu i Kuq (talk • contribs) 18:29, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.janes.com/defence/news/kosovo/misc990301_03_n.shtml
  • In 1997 rebellion in Albania on 2011-05-25 06:29:57, 404 Not found
  • In 1997 rebellion in Albania on 2011-06-08 21:01:33, 404 Not found

--JeffGBot (talk) 21:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.hri.org/news/balkans/ata/1997/97-03-16_1.ata.htm
  • In 1997 rebellion in Albania on 2011-06-08 21:15:48, Socket Error: 'A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond'
  • In 1997 rebellion in Albania on 2011-06-25 11:13:23, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 11:13, 25 June 2011 (UTC) i dont understand what is the problem !! you should only click at the referencs and you eill see that the work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.106.109.122 (talk) 10:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Spelling and grammar

This whole article is filled with spelling and grammar errors. I tried to fix some of them in one section of the article but I'm not sure if I did it well because English isn't my mother tongue.

So, it would be great if somebody capable of doing a spelling and grammar check would do it because it would improve the articles quality. Štaki000 (talk) 12:02, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

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Two-thirds of the population, or one-fifth?

In the first paragraph of the Causes section, the article states: "...could no longer make payments once the number of investors grew to include two-thirds of Albanians..." but in the second paragraph, it mentions that "...while the average monthly income was around $80. About a fifth of the population invested in the schemes." Are these statements referring to two different time periods during the rise of the pyramid funds, and the article simply isn't clear, or does this section directly contradict itself (as it appears to me)? At first I questioned if this wasn't a misunderstanding of the paragraphs, but since both statements clearly specify "investors" it does seem quite contradictory. The IMF states the relevant figure as two-thirds of the population so I'm removing the one fifth unless there is a problem. άλφα7248^Talk 11:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

References

Section needs re-write/encyclopedic standards

This section is poorly written and needs a more a objective approach : 

"==The political situation before the Rebellion==

• 26 May 1996: General elections held. Democratic Party wins by a large margin. The Socialists accuse the government and international fraud in this election. PS leave the counting process and boycott parliament. Shows arrogant government with the opposition, while extremely extremist opposition.
• 20 October 1996: Local elections are held. Democratic Party wins again. Socialists still do not accept the result. The political situation is aggravated too. The country heads towards a multifaceted crisis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.221.52 (talk) 18:37, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Corrections

This article is clearly not written by an English speaking editor. It badly needs re-writing. On a related theme, how can a firm be "half bankrupt"?203.184.41.226 (talk) 00:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

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Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 14:22, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 16:03, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 23:51, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 08:12, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 06:47, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 09:43, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 18:39, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 01:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 07:56, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 20:31, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 11:27, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 11:55, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 15:02, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 18:07, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 22:12, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 12:52, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 05:01, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 19:27, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 10:51, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 17:22, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 06:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 23:43, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 02:31, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

Cyberbot II has detected links on Albanian Rebellion of 1997 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.historyofnations.net/europe/albania.html

  Triggered by \bhistoryofnations\.net\b on the local blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

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Blacklisted Links Found on Albanian Rebellion of 1997

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Requested move 27 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved as proposed. Two editors, including the nominator, in definite support, and a third (Charles Essie) with an implicit endorsement. Only one oppose, and the supports provide solid evidence in the form of links to reliable sources, while the oppose does not. I narrowly see a consensus to move, after a very long listing period. (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 09:38, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

---

Albanian rebellion of 1997 → Albanian civil war of 1997 – The event is described as a civil war, or "near civil war", other terms such as "anarchy", "chaos", etc, were used by media. Zoupan 18:56, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

• Comment "Albanian rebellion" is misleading, as it suggests a national revolution, when the rebels in fact were a mash-up of political dissidents, criminals, rioting civilians, etc. Some sources using the terminology "civil war":

John Pike. Albanian Civil War (1997). Global Security. These riots, and the state of anarchy which they caused, are known as the Albanian civil war of 1997

Kosta Barjaba (2004). Albania's democratic elections, 1991-1997: analyses, documents and data. Edition Sigma. ISBN 978-3-89404-237-0. For a detailed chronological course of events in the Albanian civil war

Andrei Lankov (1 December 2014). The Real North Korea: Life and Politics in the Failed Stalinist Utopia. Oxford University Press. p. 298. ISBN 978-0-19-939003-8. On the Albanian civil war of 1997, see Dirk Bezemer

Ronald A. Francisco (2000). The Politics of Regime Transitions. Westview Press. ISBN 978-0-8133-8851-9. After the Albanian civil war of 1997

Penny Kugler; Christopher Fawson; N. Gregory Mankiw (1 August 2000). Princip Microeconomics Test B. Thomson Learning EMEA, Limited. ISBN 978-0-03-027027-7. In 1997, Albania experienced a civil war ... The Albanian civil war

International Institute for Strategic Studies (2000). Strategic Survey 1999/2000. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-922475-3. no serious danger of an Albanian civil war for the first time since 1997

Analysis of Current Events. Association for the Study of Nationalities (USSR and Eastern Europe). 1997. An Albanian civil war could easily spill over into Macedonia, Kosovo, and Montenegro

James Ciment; Kenneth Hill (1999). Encyclopedia of Conflict Since World War II. Routledge. p. 247. ISBN 978-1-57958-181-7. ALBANIA: Civil War, 1997

James Ciment; Immanuel Ness (21 January 2014). Encyclopedia of Global Population and Demographics. Taylor & Francis. p. 294. ISBN 978-1-135-95081-1. In 1997, thecollapseof Albania'shighly speculative capitalist market economy ledto an economic depression, civil war,

Gene Adcock (31 October 2012). CCT-The Eye of the Storm: Volume II – The GWOT Years. Author House. p. 47. ISBN 978-1-4772-6997-8. trapped by Albania's civil war — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoupan (talk • contribs) 18:56, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose - not really a civil war. It was an armed rebellion and disobedience which led to a chaotic state. Who were the belligerents of the war? How many causalities? That was not a civil war at all.--Mondiad (talk) 02:39, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support: There is an agreement in correspondent literature (as shown per nom.) that this is a case of 'civil war'. In simple words the sequence of events definitely falls into the definition of a Civil war (... a war between organized groups within the same state). Alexikoua (talk) 17:33, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Comment: Is there a reason why can't be simply Albanian Civil War? Was there anything else in the history of Albania that qualifies as a civil war (if even this does)? Charles Essie (talk) 20:19, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

World War II.--Zoupan 18:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

---

Albanian civil war of 1997 → Albanian Civil War – Can we guys make the name of the article smaller? I mean just name it "Albanian Civil War". There is no need for the "of 1997" part. Ibrahimweed 18:56, 10 June 2017 (GMT)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Requested move 10 June 2017

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. With the withdrawal of one objection, consensus stands in favor of the proposed move/primary topic determination. bd2412 T 22:04, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Albanian civil war of 1997 → Albanian Civil War – the name is long. IbrahimWeed (talk) 11:44, 10 June 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 15:52, 17 June 2017 (UTC) --Relisting.  Salvidrim! · ✉ 20:55, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support As it has been relisted (basically twice) may I move it and close the discussion? d.g. L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 23:18, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. I've read the last move request, and it seems clear that it couldn't be simply "Albanian Civil War" (with or without caps). Firstly due to WWII: per Albania, By the last year in World War II Albania fell into a civil war-like state between the communists and nationalists. Secondly, consensus is still being formed among historians whether or not this was actually a civil war, see Albanian civil war of 1997#Terminology. There's going to have to be sources pointing to this name as common for me to support, and I'm just not seeing that. -- Tavix ^(talk) 14:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
• (This is the original closure by Amakuru, moved here as a comment by Salvidrim on 20:55, 17 July 2017 (UTC) as per the result of the MRV which ended in consensus to relist the RM) — Support The result of the move request was: Moved. More supports than opposes (2:1), and I'm not particularly convinced by the oppose rationale. As the target is already a redirect here, and we're already calling it a civil war, we lose nothing by going ahead with the move as requested. The WW2 crisis may be relevant, but doesn't have an article at present. When it does, the matter can be reconsidered.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:16, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Note: following discussion on my talk page and the opening of a move review, I should just clarify here - in the above close I was interpreting the nominator's statement "the name is long" as referring to WP:CONCISE, which suggests that we should title the article at the shorter form Albanian Civil War, rather than the longer form Albanian civil war of 1997, given that the former already redirected to the latter before this RM was opened. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 14:23, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose (almost leaned toward neutral or weak oppose) - Troubling about this discussion is very little participation. Consequently, we have had two re-listings, one MRV, and then the third relisting. Last year, the title shifted from "rebellion" to "civil war", but there was very little participation there. There are Albanian revolts of 1833–39 and Albanian revolt of 1910; unsure whether to consider them "civil wars". However, this source says that another "Albanian civil war" somewhat occurred during the German occupation of Albanian in 1943–44. Also, there is another Albanian Civil War of 1920s. The sources specify which Albanian Civil War occurred. I won't oppose to changing to "Albanian Civil War of 1997" or "Albanian Civil War (1997)", but I don't oppose the present title format either. --George Ho (talk) 18:10, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

  @George Ho: that would be all very well, except that the proposed target already redirects here. The other "civil wars" you mention simply aren't called that by sources, except in odd isolated cases such as those you mention, so aren't contenders for the title on WP. WP:CONCISE is clear on this point, given the redirect, the "of 1997" is unnecessary disambiguation. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 22:22, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

  I hoped that other articles about those "civil wars" exist or are created. However, I guess you're right about concision. Well, Wikipedia is not Google, right? I'll rescind the opposition. If it's to benefit most readers, I'll no longer oppose. Still, older, pre-1990 sources refer to other civil war(s). Ah... well... we'll revisit when an article about the other "civil war" is created. --George Ho (talk) 22:49, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support per Amakuru. Charles Essie (talk) 22:16, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Contesting the Move Request to the article refering to the 1997 events in Albania as a Civil War

The previous move request that categorized the period as a civil war, was based on mainly news sources that were not reputable.

I have done research and have additional sources that are from UN organizations and from official government sources. Due to this additional information that was not considered nor was available previously, I am requesting a move request of the page to a not civil war title, as it would be an inaccurate description of the events.

Below is a list of the official sources from various sovereign governments and intergovernmental organizations, as well as reputable news sources, that do not refer to the Albanian event in 1997 as civil war:

Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) - is a inter government organization that most European and North American countries are part of. The report refers to these events as follows: "After a deep political and economic crisis struck Albania at the beginning of 1997" and "The election of a new Parliament was considered a crucial step in the process which aimed at putting an end to the political, social and economic crisis disrupting the country"

SOURCE: http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/14029 or directly to the pdf page http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/14029?download=true

In another document, OSCE refers to the events as "breakdown of law and order throughout Albania in the beginning of 1997".

SOURCE: http://www.nmd.umu.se/digitalAssets/12/12642_presence_in_abania.pdf

In summary OSCE refers to the events as: Political, Social and Economic crises, and breakdown of law and order.

United Nations Education, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) - a specialized organization of the United Nations (UN). In a report where Butrint (Albania) historical site was added to the World Heritage Center List, refers to the events in Albania as follows: "The Secretariat informed the Bureau of press reports according to which the site of Butrinti and its museum were looted during the civil disturbances in Albania. This information was confirmed by the Butrint Foundation and in a meeting with the Ambassador and Permanent Delegate of Albania to UNESCO on 16 April 1997 at which it was agreed that a joint UNESCO-ICOMOS-Butrint Foundation mission would be undertaken to the site. Due to the security situation in the country, this mission could not be undertaken before this session of the Bureau.

SOURCE: http://whc.unesco.org/en/soc/2185

In summary, UNESCO refers to these events as: Civil Disturbances in Albania.

Peace Corps - a volunteer program run by the United States Government. In its website it refers to the events in Albania as "The US evacuated all Peace Corps volunteers in 1997 due to concerns related to the civil unrest the country was experiencing at that time"

SOURCE: https://www.peacecorps.gov/albania/about/

In summary US PeaceCorps refers to the events as Civil Unrest.

Council of Europe - An international organization whose mission is to up hold human rights, democracy and rule of law in Europe. Most if not all EU member states are also members of this organization as well. A report by the Council of Europe states the events in Albania as follows: "the country suffered a severe setback in 1997, when the collapse of the so-called "pyramid" investment schemes - resulting in economic hardship, social problems, and discontent with the government - led to widespread unrest among the population and a period of chaos and anarchy throughout the country".

SOURCE: https://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/ecri/Country-by-country/Albania/ALB-CbC-I-1999-048-EN.pdf

In summary, Council of Europe refers to these events in Albania as: Widespread Unrest, Period of Chaos and Anarchy throughout the country.

The Dutch Ministry of Defense - in a report states the following on the events in Albania: "When the communist regime in Albania ended in 1991, many Albanians were lured by the 'get-rich-quick' schemes of shrewd businessmen. Almost half of all Albanian families became victims of the so-called pyramid schemes. They blamed their misfortune on the Albanian government and this resulted in riots in January 1997 and the departure of the government on 1 March. Chaos and lawlessness became more and more rife in Albanian society

SOURCE: https://www.defensie.nl/english/topics/historical-missions/mission-overview/1997/multinational-advisory-police-element-mape-and-the-european-commission-police-assistance-in-albania-ecpa

In summary, the Dutch Ministry of Defense refers to these events in Albania as: Chaos and Lawlessness.

Conclusion In none of the sources by the UN, UNESCO, Council or Europe, US Govt. Peace Corps and the Dutch Ministry of Defense, is there a referral to a civil war. While the current Wikipedia article referring to this period as Albanian Civil War of 1997, is extremely misleading to all Wikipedia users and makes Wikipedia a tool of other interests. It is to be noted that this change was initiated and endorsed by Wikipedia users with nationalistic points of view such as: Zoupan a Serbian Wikipedia user; and Alexikoua a Greek Wikipedia user, who both have mastered the Wikipedia administrative process, but not how to contribute to Wikipedia in an unbiased way. The article title needs to be updated to reflect the events as described by the sources above. I would prefer that my time here is spent researching information and not maintaining and redoing the disruptions of Serbian and Greek nationalists. Thanks! Ilirpedia (talk) 17:55, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

"Considered to be a rebellion, a civil war, or a rebellion that escalated into a civil war"?

The unrest cannot be considered to be a rebellion, a civil war, or a rebellion that escalated into a civil war. That is trying to be all things to all people. Historians and academics have surely reached a consensus on this. My view is that it can be considered only as civil unrest. There was no major fighting - it was not a civil war. There was no formal rebellion against the state. It was a break down of law and order. Are the Los Angeles riots of 1992 considered civil war or rebellion?122.59.213.223 (talk) 02:53, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

What's relevant is not our opinions, but how notable sources refer to the events. The section in this talk page headed Requested move 27 February 2016 presents many sources using the term Albanian civil war. Klbrain (talk) 20:50, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 28 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page as proposed at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:03, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

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Albanian Civil War → Albanian rebellion of 1997 –

- During 1997, there was no civil war in Albania, analysts say he was simply a rebellion and could go to civil war.

- "International Monetary Fund" in a writing says: When the schemes collapsed, there was uncontained rioting, the government fell, and the country descended into anarchy and a near civil war in which some 2,000 people were killed.

- While the media of that time have quoted that in Albania there was only riots. They never mentioned that there was civil war! NY TIMES , Washington Post, Time.com.

- Albanian politicans has never described these riots as civil war.

- While the onwar.com a website that analyzes all conflicts around the world writes: The Albanian Rebellion of 1997, also known as the Albanian Unrest of 1997 (Albanian: Rebelimi i vitit 1997), or the Pyramid Crisis or (improperly) the Albanian Anarchy of 1997, was an uprising sparked by Ponzi scheme failures. Albania descended into civil disorder and violence in which the government was toppled and 2,000 people were killed.

Hakuli (talk) 20:50, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Current title has 581,000 hits when searched, whereas Albanian rebellion of 1997 has only 178,000; a much smaller number. -- Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 04:36, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
• Support We can not misinform, because in Albania there was no civil war during 1997, while during 1943-44 we can say that it been a civil war. We can not rely on the number of researches because they can come from research that is being done for the World War II in Albania. No trustworthy source says that in 1997 we had a civil war in Albania. --Hakuli (talk) 11:14, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per COMMONNAME as explained above.Alexikoua (talk) 15:05, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Comment: Please, if you support or do not support this initiative, give your reasons. --Hakuli (talk) 22:47, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose, common name seems to be civil war, but the definition of it as such is elaborated on in the article (read first section). Furthermore, user is not familiar with guidelines, uses unreliable sources (in this case, Hakuli, Onwar.com is not a reliable source) and votes twice in several move reqs initiated by himself. I suggest the user reads the basic guidelines.--Zoupan 23:18, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Various titles have been proposed so far for this article. However a proper move request is warranted for a move here since this case appears to be controversial.Alexikoua (talk) 10:16, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Not a Civil War You Liers

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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How many times does Wikipedia have to be told there was no civil war in 1997 in Albania and yet this thing still remains on when a perfect title for this would be something like the Albanian Pyramid Crisis.

What is going on here then? Should Wikepedia be sued for defamation or something or what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.123.143 (talk) 22:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

29 February?

In the "February" section of this article, the events of "29 February" are described. However, 1997 was not a leap year. I assume this is a typo, or the author may have forgotten about that, but at any rate, in 1997, there was no 29 February. Hence, the date should be changed. --2A02:AB04:2AB:700:FDB8:A7C9:3001:E410 (talk) 09:55, 16 September 2021 (UTC)