Talk:2015 FFA Cup preliminary rounds

Mobile formatting

Can someone fix this to look correct when viewed on mobile? The table is sending it all out of whack. Thanks. Datasmack (talk) 04:36, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Attendance Column

As per the discussion and outcome from last year's preliminary rounds page regarding the relevance of attendance columns, they have also been removed for the 2015 tables. Matilda Maniac (talk) 00:06, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Round 7 (Effectively a Round of 64)

From the Football Queensland website - "The Preliminary Rounds will operate within a consistent national structure whereby Club entry into the competition will be staggered in each state/ territory with the winning Clubs from Round 7 in each Member Federation gaining direct entry into the Westfield FFA Cup 2015 Final Rounds (Round of 32 and beyond)." - J man708 (talk) 17:01, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I realise that the page looks chaotic at the moment, however with each state giving out their draw overviews very soon, this page will make a lot more sense. I'm also thinking of deleting each state's round progression information and replacing them with a column stating where the teams are playing out of. I'll edit it the Seventh Round fixtures to show this now. J man708 (talk) 18:32, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

The Federation-based preliminary rounds are independent of each other Federation, and hence the article should be formatted the same way that it was formatted in 2014, and look at the rounds grouped firstly by Federation. The format that you have changed it to is worse than chaotic, it is misleading. Different Federations will have different numbers of rounds to Queensland, so to pretend that there is some sort of de facto Round of 64 is false. The format used in the 2014 preliminary rounds - while lengthy - is appropriate. This article should be changed back to the format that it was in a week ago. Matilda Maniac (talk) 12:26, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

J man708 is going by the information from this Football Queensland article. I think the current format is appropriate, but we should include the preliminary rounds format info (ie what is said in the link) in the artcicle itself.--2nyte (talk) 03:42, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

The format should be known over the next couple of weeks, so debate the overall structure then; rather than second guess the structure and completely change the article format, it should be changed back to how it was, which is consistent with 2014. Matilda Maniac (talk) 23:10, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

The new format should be somewhat less lengthy than last years, which is a very good thing, but it may be less readable, as different rounds will be played at the same time for different Federations; I consider that the general readers are going to prefer reading the article from a State / Federation basis, whereas the article editors - including myself - clearly are interested in this as a holistic competition. Matilda Maniac (talk) 23:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

We'll wait for official confirmation on a format, but from my research in he last day it seems there is a national structure, as is described in this article.--2nyte (talk) 00:10, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

If it is Member Federations all working withina national structure, then the Round 7 decides on the 21 qualifiers. Therefore the Round format of the Queensland Preliminary Rounds needs to be changed and everything moves up one round - rather than Queensland teams qualify in Round 6, and have Byes in Round 7. Matilda Maniac (talk) 00:31, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Rather then me explaining I'll just link to what I've read: Football Queenland, FFV, Football West, Football NSW.--2nyte (talk) 00:46, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Shit guys, I didn't even realise that there were any issues in the last few days. Sorry if my edits have been out of whack, but the last time I looked at this talk page (late Jan), no one had really commented, so I didn't realise there were any issues. Thankfully Queensland has altered their structure and now have their first round as Round 2 and teams qualifying to the FFA Cup in Round 7. Apparently the term Round 8 may be occasionally thrown around by the member federations as an easier way of expressing the "Round of 32".

PS: @2nyte:, adding 2nyte doesn't send an alert... Weird... I thought it did. :P - J man708 (talk) 07:44, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Sources

Just a reminder, if you add content to the article can you provide the source of the information if it's from a website. Preferably add a short prose with a reference in the format section. Thank you.--2nyte (talk) 02:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Individual state articles

Why have individual state artciles such as 2015 NNSW FFA Cup Qualifying Rounds and 2015 WA State Challenge Cup been created? Both have no new information. Is it necessary, if not can we just redirect them to this article.--2nyte (talk) 03:11, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

As these rounds are completed it is my intention that these pages will contain more information about these rounds. Reports from local media coverage. Photos etc. The way that the FFA Cup qualifiers have been formats makes it harder to follow for the different states. Let's leave it until a few rounds are completed. Datasmack (talk) 03:18, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

There are already stand-alone articles for WA State Challenge Cup, Dockerty Cup, Waratah Cup competitions (amongst others), which have more details than in the summary FFA Cup preliminary rounds. Including the important latter stages of the competition - where the semi-fimals or finals are playing for the State Cup and no longer part of the FFA Cup competition e.g. last year's Dockerty Cup Semi-Finals and Final. For the WA event, I have links pointing at both competitions whenever it seems appropriate. Matilda Maniac (talk) 09:52, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Totally agree with this. The Northern NSW State Cup was disbanded in 2014. The new 2015 knock out competition replaces it and is run at the new Lake Macquarie Regional Football Facility. It hasn't been given a formal name yet other than the NNSW Finals Series. I believe it will warrant its own page similar to the Waratah Cup etc. Datasmack (talk) 12:32, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

@Datasmack: Do you reckon that each state federation's cup should be in an article? Continuity suggests each state should have a page, but I'm kinda on the fence. There's no harm in there being a WA page and a NNSW page, but I don't think a SA page is necessary, especially after the FFA decided to thank the FFSA by giving them the same number of spots (Especially after having a team NPL team beat an A-League club and having another NPL club win the NPL National Finals...), meaning that Round 7 is the Final of the FFSA Federation Cup. Ditto the ACT and Tas - J man708 (talk) 07:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

@J man708: This is proving to be a difficult cup to layout in a cohesive format. Regarding state based cups, I think they all deserve their own pages. In the case that a state cup has been rolled into the FFA Cup, then there is no need to have a page for that. I am actually questioning the need for my pet project here in NNSW. I'm trying to get confirmation on whether there is a replacement for the NNSW State Cup. If it has been disbanded, then I will delete the NNSW page. If a distinct separate competition exists then it can stay. Datasmack (talk) 00:05, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

@Datasmack:I was genuinely asking a question with my response, sorry if it came out any other way than curiousity. From what I've been led to believe, the NNSW still will run a Grand Final, regardless of the FFA Cup. I'm pretty sure that Round 7 is the NNSW State Cup's Semi Final. I reckon that the Waratah Cup deserves one, if NNSW and WA do. Besides, I'm curious about the way they'll turn 5 clubs into 2, myself. :P

BTW, I agree. This cup is a pain in the ass to find a good set up for. The current set up I reckon looks okay. It's always gonna look clustered, simply because of the number of matches that we're dealing with. - J man708 (talk) 02:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

@J man708: this last question is answered in the latest press release from NSW : Ref: [1]. Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:41, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

@J man708 and Matilda Maniac:Oh that is a thing of beauty. Why can't all the federations produce such a clear chart? I only learnt that the Preliminary Round 1 games for Football Far North Coast in NNSW were being played tonight when it was announced on Fox Sports tonight. I'll try to do better. I need to redo the NNSW Qualifying rounds as well, having been given incorrect information about the format. Datasmack (talk) 12:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

there's a clearer (but possibly not accurate?) structure from probably an Excel spreadhseet, produced at : [2]

Because as much as all these State Federations run NPL comps and FFA Cup qualifiers, you'll find some State Federations giving more of a fuck than others. The only way I can see all them doing the same thing is if the FFA enforces it. As for the NNSW format, it's complete chaos. They've gone about making it as difficult and needlessly complicated as possible. - J man708 (talk) 12:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

@J man708, Matilda Maniac, and 2nyte:So what was the upshot with all of this? I am collating more detail about games as I get it here ... 2015 NNSW FFA Cup Qualifying Rounds. I am considering adding links to photos from this weekends Southern Pool ties. Am I wasting my time? Datasmack (talk) 02:09, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

The way that I see it has evolved, and its still evolving, is that now the entire preliminary competition is entirely under the Westfield FFA Cup banner, only those matches AFTER the preliminaries are decided - if any - are effectively the individual State Cups. e.g NSW effectively has only 5 entrants in this year's Waratah Cup - the 5 FFA Cup qualifiers. Ref: in page 2 of [3]. David Gallop and FFA website are pretty clear about the branding - Westfield, Westfield, Westfield (and no more Cool Ridge or Coca-Cola naming rights) - "For the first time, this year’s Westfield FFA Cup will also incorporate the Preliminary Rounds, meaning every match played prior to the Round of 32 involving approximately 640 clubs falls under the Westfield FFA Cup umbrella." [4]; what i think this means for WA is that the State Cup 2015 article will eventually just be the final game, with a brief summary of the preliminary rounds and a link to the main site. Maybe thats what it might mean for NNSW too, if there's going to be a final between the two qualifiers. What I would do now in terms of format is follow the suggestion of the wise Datasmack and "Let's leave it until a few rounds are completed.". Individual state articles might be OK for the next few months for some of the detail lacking in the FFA Cup article, but maybe no longer needed at the conclusion of the preliminary rounds. I would note, though, that very very very few soccer articles with these sorts of competitions go to the trouble of links to photographs, I think because of a) relevance and b) permissions. Matilda Maniac (talk) 02:42, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

The separate Schedule and Format sections

These two separate sections would read better if the key information was combined into a single table, similar to that used for the 2014 schedule. State-based information is more relevent in terms of numbers of teams and key dates, but there can still be the existing table as a Totals section to reflect the national figures. e.g. here's the same 2015 information for Western Australia using similar format to 2014: Matilda Maniac (talk) 03:33, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Region	Round	Main date	Number of fixtures	Clubs	New entries this round	Levels of new entrants
Western Australia	Round 2	14-15 March 2015	8 + 7 byes	61 → 53	23	level 6 and below
	Round 3	28-29 March 2015	16	53 → 32	27	level 3-5
	Round 4	6 April 2015	16	32 → 16	11	level 2
	Round 5	27 April 2015	8	16 → 8	none
	Round 6	1 June 2015	4	8 → 4	none
	Round 7	20-21 June 2015	2	4 → 2	none

I politely disagree. I think last year's has to be accepted as a one off, but it looks like a disgusting clusterfuck. I think including it this season only creates unnecessary tables. I think at this point, we're getting close to breaking the guideline of Wikipedia:NOTSTATSBOOK, you know? In saying that, I think they'd be very useful on the individual articles for each state, like the WA one, or this one. - J man708 (talk) 07:57, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

appending it to the WA article, as a potentially more appropriate place to store details. Although I think this article's format currently looks more of a fustercluck than last year's. Matilda Maniac (talk) 10:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I second that it does in some aspects. Having 150 matches in one table is never pretty, but I reckon this one flows a lot better than the last one where you'd go from State A - Round 1-5, State B - Round 1-3, State C Rounds 1-8, you know? I'm loving the fact they took the initiative to make Round 7 the last round and stagger the starts. It makes it so much easier once you see the finalised product, I reckon... Of course, what do I know? I'm editing Wikipedia at 1:30pm on a Tuesday. :P - J man708 (talk) 02:54, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

NNSW rounds

Rounds may be incorrect... Round 1 takes place over 21 and 22 February. I'll update as I get more information. Datasmack (talk) 00:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC) Westfield FFA Cup 2015 - NNSWF Southern Pool Round 1 Fixtures

Hmmm... North and South are using completely different dates for their matches all the way until they come together at about Round 5, I think. - J man708 (talk) 02:56, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

SORTED !!! The problem was in NNWS not explaining that the first draw that they did was simultaneously Round 1 for the North and Round 2 for the South, and not earlier being consistent with which round was which. and this article was developed on the basis that it was all Round 1. The latest draw video from NNSW [5] gives the Round 4 southern draw, which this article had as round 3. Therefore all NNSW STH matches have been bumped up one round, and they all come together for Round 6/Round 7 on the weekend of 20-21 June. It was actually a horrible task - simple but boring - to have to renumber all Tie numbers all the way back to Round 1. And there may be one more exercise of this Tie renumbering to come, once ACT announces its teams and format. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 23:57, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Your efforts are most greatly appreciated. I was home but couldn't muster the effort to do all that work on a Saturday night. So thanks again. NNSWF certainly don't like to make things easy with their draw. Nor the FFA for that matter. Maybe in a few years this will have been sorted.Datasmack (talk) 00:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, an hour and half of my life i could have been doing something more productive - this reinforces my view that the format for this article should be by Federation first, and then by Round, not the way it is currently structured. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 02:23, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm sure that there is an easier method. I'm not great with tables, but I know that you can generally get Wikipedia to count for itself using a '#' in a column somehow. From here, we could make it a ton easier. I currently haven't a massive amount of experience with Wikitables, but I'm sure the info is out there somewhere for this. - J man708 (talk) 08:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac and Datasmack: This page here from the FFA Cup page itself states that no matches from the NNSW are played in Round 1, meaning that all those fixtures are Round 2 matches and in turn have deleted byes further down in the tournament for the Northern teams. Check out the original article, then check out the test bed page I created up to Round 3 and give me your thoughts? (The only reason I stopped at Round 3 is because the fixture list past then on the FFA Cup results page isn't complete and some known information is currently missing. - J man708 (talk) 17:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

@J man708 and Datasmack: I think the article at Pursuit of the Cup has the northern pool more accurately represented; although it merges the two southern pools into one. Based on this, there were Northern Pool matches in Round 1, so if you bump up round 1 into round 2, you might create a small train wreck later on. only 2 northern pool teams make it into round 6. I recall that foxsportspulse also got Queensland rounds wrong at first - flowing on from Football Qld having the rounds all one out. So I would assume the current article is still correct until proven otherwise and do not make any changes to NNSW - however, that proof may come soon from a forthcoming draw from NNSW where ?Gary Fisher is usually quite informative about process. Matilda Maniac (talk) 02:44, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

@J man708: Just keep in mind that the Pursuit of the Cup site is as unofficial as Wikipedia, and is being kept up to date by a member of the 442 Forum. I'm sure that the current article is incorrect. I feel that if we moved the Tuncurry Forster matches, that the other matches within the NNSW member federation probably have to be amended, too. I agree that we should wait for this, however. Do you think the FFA Cup website will have it all sorted out?
- J man708 (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Entry numbers.

I'll try and keep this roughly updated. The way the tournament is run makes it somewhat difficult to correctly count all the teams. Undoubtedly, I've probably messed this up, too.

State	2015 Teams	2014 Teams	Increase/Decrease
ACT	18	34	16 ↓
NSW	104	100	↑ 4
NNSW	78	78	= 0
NT	14 (10 Darwin + 4 Alice Springs)	0	↑ 14
QLD	125	121	↑ 4
SA	28	29	= 0 (-1 MetroStars)
TAS	18	19	1 ↓
VIC	191	190	↑ 1
WA	61	50	↑ 11
A-League	11 (Including MetroStars)	10	= 0 (+1 MetroStars)
Total	648	631	↑ 17

Just wondering, teams count in the "teams" section if they pull out and don't play, yeah? - J man708 (talk) 12:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

If a team is named in the draw but is later eliminated from the competition by a walkover or other reason, then they are still counted in the team section.--2nyte (talk) 12:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

The biggest drop is ACT, -16 , but there were I think 21 Clubs in 2013 (with multiple entries meant 34 teams). So I think its only really gone down by 5. This year only one senior side is eligible from each club. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I think in 2014 also NNSW had multiple teams per club in the comp? I think this is a good direction for the comp. But this does reflect NNSW has probably increased in terms of numbers of clubs not reflected in those figures. --TinTin (talk) 09:16, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

@TinTin: They still do. The only difference now is the subtle "Junior" and "Senior/United" names added to the end, to differentiate between the State League and the Zone League clubs they run. They're still by all means the same club, however. Same clubhouse, colours, songs, club names, club histories... Just their way of working around the FFA's "One club, one team" rule on a technicality of being "Two clubs". - J man708 (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Can Central Coast ACADEMY qualify to Rd of 32 ?

I seem to remember something from last year where CCMA couldnt qualify for the 2014 Round of 32 if they made it that far to the last 7, but were still competing in the integrated/parallel Waratah Cup. Has something to that effect been announced ?

Similarly, what happens in South Australia if North Eastern MetroStars gets to Round 7 (or whatever SA call it by then;Federation cup final?) ? does the other finalist qualifies automatically ? Matilda Maniac (talk) 07:18, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

CCMA can't. I'm 95% sure that the team playing is Central Coast FC and not CCMA, though. As for MetroStars, they announced on last night's live stream that if they win the Federation Cup, FFA Cup qualification will go to the runners up. - J man708 (talk) 09:07, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Results Tables

Due to the number of games the tables are very hard to read. I understand what is trying to be achieved by combining all federations but as the qualifiers are still state based why can't the table look like the following... it's clearer, makes it easier to recognise games in each region and reduces the tables by a column each.

example is for First Round only.

Northern New South Wales

Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
NTH	MNC	1	Macleay Valley Rangers (4)	–	Port Saints (4)
NTH	MNC	2	Club Taree Wildcats (4)	–	Tuncurry Forster (4)
NTH	NI	3	Gunnedah United (-)	–	North Armidale (-)
NTH	NI	4	Inverell Joeys (-)	–	South Armidale United (-)
NTH	NI	5	The Armidale School (-)	–	Tamworth (-)
NTH	NI	6	East Armidale (-)	–	Oxley Vale Attunga (-)
NTH	NI	7	North Companions (-)	–	Demon Knights (-)
NTH	NC	8	Maclean (-)	–	Coffs Coast Tigers (-)
NTH	NC	9	Boambee (-)	–	Woolgoolga United (-)
NTH	NC	10	Coffs City United (-)	–	Northern Storm Thunder (-)
NTH	NC	11	Nambucca Strikers (-)	–	Westlawn Tigers (-)
NTH	FNC	12	Ballina (4)	0–3	Lismore Thistles (4)
NTH	FNC	13	Goonellabah (4)	–	Lismore Workers (4)
NTH	FNC	14	Lennox Head (4)	1–3	Alstonville (4)
STH	-	15	Belmont Swansea United (3)	–	Swansea (4)
STH	-	16	Newcastle University (4)	–	Wallsend (3)

Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
STH	-	17	Cooks Hill United (3)	–	Barnsley United (4)
STH	-	18	Westlakes Wildcats (5)	–	Kahibah (3)
STH	-	19	Plattsburg Maryland (6)	–	Cardiff City (4)
STH	-	20	New Lambton Eagles (4)	–	New Lambton (7)
STH	-	21	Merewether Advance (6)	–	Kotara South (5)
STH	-	22	Beresfield United (4)	–	Warners Bay (5)
STH	-	23	Belmont Tingira (-)	–	Newcastle Suns (4)
STH	-	24	Toronto Awaba FC (3)	–	Garden Suburb (4)
STH	-	25	Stockton Sharks (5)	–	Dudley Redhead Senior (4)
STH	-	26	Valentine FC (3)	–	Lake Macquarie City FC (3)
STH	-	27	Kurri Kurri (6)	–	Mayfield United Junior (7)
STH	-	28	Hunter Simba (6)	–	Morisset United (5)
STH	-	29	Beresfield (5)	–	West Wallsend FC (3)
STH	-	30	Muswellbrook (6)	–	Singleton Strikers SC (3)
STH	-	31	Charlestown Junior (5)	–	RAAF Williamtown (7)
STH	-	32	Mayfield United Senior (4)	–	Dudley Redhead United (7)
STH	-	33	Tenambit Sharks (6)	–	Medowie (6)
STH	-	34	Thornton Redbacks (3)	–	Cessnock City (3)

Victoria

Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
-	-	35	Kyneton District (8)	–	Eltham Redbacks (7)
-	-	36	VIC First Rd Qualifier 8 (8)	–	St Kevins Old Boys (8)
-	-	37	Whitehorse United (7)	–	Old Mentonians (8)
-	-	39	Sandown Lions (7)	–	Lyndale United (7)
-	-	40	Mill Park (8)	–	Rowville Eagles (7)
-	-	41	Watsonia Heights (7)	–	Melton Phoenix (7)
-	-	42	Waverley Wanderers (7)	–	Altona North (7)
-	-	43	VIC First Rd Qualifier 10 (8)	–	Maidstone United (-)
-	-	44	Dandenong Wolves (7)	w/o	Bundoora United (7)
Walkover for Bundoora United – Dandenong Wolves removed.
-	-	45	Epping City (7)	–	Melbourne Lions (8)
-	-	46	Skye United (7)	–	Heidelberg Eagles (7)
-	-	47	VIC First Rd Qualifier 4 (8)	–	Springvale City (8)
-	-	48	Plenty Valley Lions (7)	–	Point Cook (7)
-	-	49	Old Camberwell Grammarians (7)	–	Melbourne City FC (7)
-	-	50	Mazenod United (6)	–	Sebastapol Vikings (7)
-	-	51	Harrisfield Hurricanes (8)	–	Collingwood City (7)
-	-	52	Laverton Park (8)	–	Northern United (7)
-	-	53	Casey Panthers (8)	–	Noble Park (7)
-	-	54	Whittlesea United (6)	–	Swinburne University (8)
-	-	55	Parkmore SC (8)	–	Meadow Park (7)
-	-	56	Hoppers Crossing (6)	–	Newmarket Phoenix (7)

Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
-	-	57	Monash University (7)	–	Surf Coast (7)
-	-	58	Hampton Park United (7)	–	Bell Park (7)
-	-	59	West Preston (7)	–	VIC First Rd Qualifier 9 (8)
-	-	60	Chelsea FC (8)	–	Dandenong South (7)
-	-	61	Keysborough (7)	–	Fawkner SC (7)
-	-	62	Reservoir Yeti (8)	–	Albert Park (8)
-	-	63	Brimbank Stallions (7)	–	Old Xaverians (7)
-	-	64	FC Strathmore (7)	–	Ashburton United (6)
-	-	65	RMIT (8)	–	Croydon City Arrows (6)
-	-	66	VIC First Rd Qualifier 6 (8)	–	St Kilda SC (6)
-	-	67	Ringwood City (7)	–	Northern Falcons (7)
-	-	68	Elwood City (7)	–	Keilor Wolves (7)
-	-	69	Brandon Park (8)	–	Darebin United (6)
-	-	70	North City Wolves (6)	–	Brunswick Zebras (6)
-	-	71	VIC First Rd Qualifier 11 (8)	–	Greenvale United (7)
-	-	72	Endeavour United (7)	–	Maribyrnong Greens (7)
-	-	73	Endeavour Hills (7)	–	Williamstown SC (6)
-	-	74	Truganina Hornets (7)	–	Marcellin Old Collegians (8)
-	-	75	Brighton SC (7)	–	VIC First Rd Qualifier 5 (8)
-	-	76	Bayside Argonauts (7)	–	Spring Hills (8)
-	-	77	East Bentleigh (8)	–	South Yarra (6)
-	-	78	White Star Dandenong (8)	–	Upfield SC (6)

• NNSW Byes - Urunga (4) and Jesmond (5).

Umarghdunno (talk) 23:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

The national set up has been staggered for all the states so that they all end with Round 7. The state by state method looks a touch stupid in my opinion, as it goes from Round 7 back to Round 1, 2 or 3 some seven or eight times. If it's used in the FA Cup, (wherein they have a shitload more editors than the Australian pages), than their set of standards is more than valid for us here in Australia. EDIT - I somewhat misinterpreted what you meant. I do see what you mean by listing them by Round first, then by State within each round. That's not as bad of an idea. I thought you meant doing it like ACT 1-7, then NSW 1-7, then NNSW 1-7, etc. I still prefer the way it is, but this proposal isn't too horrible, I must admit. - J man708 (talk) 08:02, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I prefer the current format. Less tables at least appears to be simpler to follow.--2nyte (talk) 08:58, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Compared to the 2014 format, the current 2015 format is starting to grow on me (perhaps like a melanoma?), and I suggest we leave it be this year, and have the debate at the end of the year whether 2014 format is best, 2015 format is best, or some other solution is better still for 2016. Please keep it CIVIL, J man708, and please keep the passion !! Matilda Maniac (talk) 13:16, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

It was only to be taken in jest. I mean, this is an Australian page, you know? I think we can bypass formalities. :P

But yeah, I placed in those positional breaks onto each round, stating with a link which state they belonged to. I figured that may've done the job quite well at the time. Another potential thought is to increase those to two rows in thickness, so they stand out? I tried colours as a test, and it failed miserably, I'm afraid, otherwise I'd have offered that up. - J man708 (talk) 13:39, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Tasmanian Draw

The Tasmanian draw has been made: http://sliceofcheese.net/2015/02/20/live-draw-westfield-ffa-cup-qualifiers-lakoseljac-cup-round-of-16/#more-790 . I'll try to update the tables in the article at some point. --TinTin (talk) 02:55, 20 February 2015 (UTC)  : Done

Zones & Sub-Zones & Northern Territory

A key is required to explain the abbreviations for Zones & Sub-Zones. Although some of them obvious, others are not.Umarghdunno (talk) 10:39, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

It used to have them. They got lost within various edits. It might be easier to do once all zones are confirmed. I think that the NT comp may also be disected into zones. Their draw is due this week sometime. - J man708 (talk) 11:47, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Darwin-based draw Tuesday 24th Feb., and Alice Springs-based draw on Saturday 28th Feb. Matilda Maniac (talk) 08:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

In relation to the Darwin draw the FFA has this link here but it doesn't really help explain anything at all. It mentions two preliminary games but doesn't say how many teams involved in total or the method they were selected to play in those early games. Its all a mystery. --TinTin (talk) 22:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Seems unlikely to me there enough teams in Darwin that the Round 1 they mention relates to the same Round 1 in this article. More likely it is round 3. I am guessing that they're waiting for NT federation to announce the details first, so that might not be until Monday. Matilda Maniac (talk) 23:08, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm on it. Found what we need - J man708 (talk) 01:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Good reference to Darwin Qualifiers from NT Newshere

I'm pretty sure referring to the NT News as a Good reference is an oxymoron. Matilda Maniac (talk) 03:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Fair call. ;) Also upsetting the lack of crocodiles in the story.... - --TinTin (talk) 21:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

In general, crocodiles follow rugby league. http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/crocodile-on-sideline-at-local-papua-new-guinea-rugby-league-game/story-fnia3gmj-1227126789349

To be fair, one of the early FFA Cup fixtures had a crowd of about 30 and one goat. Perhaps each sport has their own animal? - J man708 (talk) 02:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Wide Bay sub-zone

Currently not that clear as to whether the 4 teams started in Round 3 (which is what is listed at Pursuit of the Cup), or whether they're effectively starting in Round 4. The existing format in the article already had space for 4 teams in Round 4 - which is how many Bundaberg teams entered - and flowing on to 2 teams in Round 5, and 1 team in Round 6. However, it may be deemed that they started a Round earlier, and then last team left has a Bye in Round 5. I chose the easy option of what was already in the article, but Wide Bay games may all have to be moved later (which changes all the tie numbers). If it is to be moved, this latter re-edit will be simpler after this weekend's VIC matches, when all the Round 4 teams will be known. Matilda Maniac (talk) 23:32, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

That's why I don't think we should've changed the fixtures to show what number match winner overall goes where, personally. I mean, yes, it's easier to follow, but if the ACT for instance had a draw right now containing 24 teams, it would've chronically screwed the fixtures. I reckon that the next year's one, we should maybe list it like "SA Round 5 Fixture 1 Winner", that way no matter how many matches change before them in the fixtures list, they don't have to be corrected. - J man708 (talk) 02:26, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. The problem goes away entirely if we simply go back to setting up the article similar to how 2014 was - by State, then by Round - rather than this less meaningful grouping of by Round, and then by State. your premise appears to be how to better fix the article based on using 2015 as the template, and I look forward to some discussions with you after the end of the season as to which format works best. ::chronically screwed - hardly - just have to add 4 (or 6 or 8 whatever), to each reference to a Tie, in perhaps 1-2 rounds. Simple (but boring) 15 minute edit - I've just gone through this exercise for NNSW for Rounds 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, and it IS painful. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 09:07, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

ACT Draw

Any ideas when the ACT draw is going to be made?--TinTin (talk) 00:10, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Entries only closed March 2nd, so cannot be too much longer. It will be a bit different this year (from 2013) as previosuly multiple teams from the same cub were allowed in the Federation Cup (different divisions, Masters etc.), but my understanding is from the FFA rules, it can now only be one senior team per club (i.e. 21 clubs, but 34 teams in 2013). --Matilda Maniac (talk) 03:40, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I was curious about this the other day, so I called them up. The guy who took my call said that as of the 1st of March, they had 16 entrants. The 8 NPL teams and 8 from the Capital League. - J man708 (talk) 08:23, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Sixteen would be perfect !! Any more than that, we might be chronically screwed. Matilda Maniac (talk) 09:26, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Total teams set at 18 [6] but no news on the actual draw from FFA or Capital Football. This article already makes the assumption that there will be 16 teams as at Round 4, to result in a single winner in Round 7. So I will adjust Round 3 on the basis of 2 matches and 14 byes. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:15, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

ACT needs to be readjusted again. Due to Belconnen not getting the FFA Cup spot last year (in favor of 2013 Fed Cup winners Tugeranong), they got a free ride to the Qtr Finals this year. This also logically should then push additional teams to the previous round. From Canberra Times:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/act-sport/belconnen-united-granted-entry-to-quarterfinals-of-act-ffa-cup-qualifying-rounds-20150316-1m021s.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.52.130.205 (talk) 04:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

So! I just found out the structure for the ACT. As last year's champions, Belconnen United are placed into the Quarter Finals, the 7 NPL teams come in at the Round of 16 stage, wherein they meet the 7 qualifiers from the previous stage. The previous stage will see 3 matches take place with the other 4 non-NPL clubs having byes.

Third Round

State	Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
Australian Capital Territory
ACT	-	-	1	ACT State League Team 1 (-)	–	ACT State League Team 2 (-)
ACT	-	-	2	ACT State League Team 3 (-)	–	ACT State League Team 4 (-)
ACT	-	-	3	ACT State League Team 5 (-)	–	ACT State League Team 6 (-)

Byes - ACT State League Team 7 (-), ACT State League Team 8 (-), ACT State League Team 9 (-), ACT State League Team 10 (-)

Fourth Round

State	Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
Australian Capital Territory
ACT	-	-	1	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 1 (2)
ACT	-	-	2	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 2 (2)
ACT	-	-	3	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 3 (2)
ACT	-	-	4	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 4 (2)
ACT	-	-	5	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 5 (2)
ACT	-	-	6	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 6 (2)
ACT	-	-	7	ACT Fourth Round Qualifier (-)	–	NPL ACT Team 7 (2)

Byes - None : Belconnen United enter into Round 5

Fifth Round

State	Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
Australian Capital Territory
ACT	-	-	1	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)	–	Belconnen United (2)
ACT	-	-	2	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)	–	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)
ACT	-	-	3	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)	–	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)
ACT	-	-	4	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)	–	ACT Fifth Round Qualifier (-)

Sixth Round

State	Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
Australian Capital Territory
ACT	-	-	1	ACT Sixth Round Qualifier (-)	–	ACT Sixth Round Qualifier (-)
ACT	-	-	2	ACT Sixth Round Qualifier (-)	–	ACT Sixth Round Qualifier (-)

Seventh Round

State	Zone	Sub Zone	Tie no	Home Team (Tier)	Score	Away Team (Tier)
Australian Capital Territory
ACT	-	-	1	ACT Seventh Round Qualifier (-)	–	ACT Seventh Round Qualifier (-)

Hopefully this ends confusion - J man708 (talk) 04:49, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

BTW - @TinTin: The guy from Capital Football said the draw will be on Friday at lunch time, barring any issues. - J man708 (talk) 05:08, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@J man708: Glad you did these Tie number edits this time J man708, - it nearly killed me last time --Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm still working on the Schedule table. None of the numbers add up. Even if you add in MetroStars as a A-League club and discount them from all other rounds, it's still a headfuck to get correct. I just can't seem to get it to add up to 648, using the number of matches (619 from memory) available to us. This sucks! - J man708 (talk) 05:35, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Also @Matilda Maniac: I thought you said it was a "boring ten minute job". :P - J man708 (talk) 05:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

first time I changed just NSW in one round and it was - second time it took ninety minutes of my life to get four different rounds nearly error-free. Never want to do that again - Blah, Blah, Blah go back to formatting this article next year by States - as that's reality - rather than pretend its organised nationally by Rounds. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:42, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

so 9 x boring. Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:43, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

The article states that Belconnen ENTER at the quarter-final stage (Round 5), rather than enter in Round 4 and get a BYE to Round 5. Suggest we look at adjusting this once something official comes out from Capital Football or FFA on Friday. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:42, 17 March 2015 (UTC) : Done

Done based on Cpaital Football press release. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:38, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac: It's shit, isn't it? Hahaha. But, it makes it look a lot better for the reader, being organised nationally. Unfortunately, that's generally the bullet we have to take as editors, dealing with shitty coding errors every second edit, making it as easy and informative as possible for the reader. As for Belco and their Round 5 entry, I just figured that we'd have it set up similarly to the 2014 Tasmanian Northern and Southern Champions entering with the NPL teams in Round 4, unlike the other Northern and Southern Championship clubs who enter in Round 3. - J man708 (talk) 05:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@J man708: That's where we disagree, as I think this format makes it look a lot worse for the reader, and we can debate that one day in Talk:2016 FFA Cup preliminary rounds. --Matilda Maniac (talk) 08:56, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

EDIT - We could easily create an opening paragraph/sentence for Round 5, mentioning that Belco get the bye into that round as reigning ACT Federation Cup champions. - J man708 (talk) 05:52, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree that Belconnen ENTER at the ACT Qtr finals, as opposed to receiving a bye from the previous round. Its a wiered format but that's what Capital Football have picked and so that should be accurately reflected in the article. --TinTin (talk) 09:23, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

An ACT Federation Cup overview page will eventually be needed, if we're going to link to a page representing where Belconnen's qualification to Round5 comes from. I can make this over the next week or so. Matilda Maniac (talk) 04:41, 22 March 2015 (UTC) . . .  Done . . . Capital Football Federation Cup Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:08, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Cheers dude. I'm kinda surprised there isn't one already! - J man708 (talk) 08:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Is it known (reference available?) that ACT Round 4 has the 7 NPL teams playing the winners from round 3 , or should the article revert to the more generic format of the Table above for round 4 until such time as a draw is made? Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:04, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Probably better to go generic. It's not confirmed from my knowledge. - J man708 (talk) 07:18, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Fremantle City FC

Not that we have a separate article yet on Fremantle City Football Club, but note that Fremantle United Soccer Club and the East Fremantle Tricolore Soccer Club are now in a joint venture arrangement forming a new club called Fremantle City Football Club. Two separate teams have entered into the FFA Cup competition, being the old Fremantle United Soccer Club - now under the Fremantle City banner - who are in State League Two, and East Fremantle who are currently in one of the Metro leagues. So they're sort of two separate clubs (but both red links are pointing to the same place at the moment). --Matilda Maniac (talk) 09:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

sneaking through the one-club, one-team policy mentioned here ?--Matilda Maniac (talk) 05:46, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

That's nothing. Look at how many "Junior" and "Senior" teams are making their way through the NNSW set up. They're technically different teams, as the Junior side will often be a Level 5-6-7 club, whereas the Senior side is a Level 3 team. Definitely shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, but still... They are what they are. - J man708 (talk) 05:53, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Counting MetroStars ?

Whether North Eastern MetroStars are eliminated in the current Round 3, or if they go all the way to winning in Round 7, they still already qualified as the reigning National Premier Leagues champion, so they should never be counted twice anywhere. in the schedule for the preliminary rounds - the table on the Talk page above should read 28 (Excluding MetroStars). The Fixtures should still include every Metrostars match, as they have the potential to eliminate other teams from the competition in Rounds 3 / 4 / 5 & 6. North Eastern MetroStars are competing for the 2015 FFSA Federation Cup. With respect to fixtures, last year we effectively had the reverse happen in NSW, where the four Quarter-final fixtures eliminated no teams which is somewhat unusual for a knockout competition (all losers progressed to play-off rounds). --Matilda Maniac (talk) 06:00, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac:I'll answer your PM on here. It's not that the TBC on the Schedule thing is for MetroStars, it's that the numbers even with out them are wonky at best and are somehow out by a few, which is why I think we should start with 648 and work backwards from there, taking off the 11 Qualifying losers to make 637, then the 60 First Round losers to make 577, the 106 Second Round losers make it 471, the 153 Third Round losers make it 318, the 146 Fourth Round losers make it 172, the 80 Fifth Round losers make it 92, the 42 Sixth Round losers make it 50 and the 21 Seventh Round losers make it 29, not 32. That's why I decided to go back and TBC them all up.

Yes, TBC until the 3 missing teams are found (maybe they moved to another article that wasnt such a formatting clusterf; maybe they'll just re-appear in the NNSWF magic drawing box so we'll see them on YouTube next week). --Matilda Maniac (talk) 08:51, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Or maybe you lost them amongst those sweeping changes, bringing the NNSW forward a round? Hehehe. In all seriousness though, I'm kinda stumped over this one. I can understand it being out by one for MetroStars somehow, but being out by 3? Urgh. I might manually count each round tomorrow to give the exact numbers. That should be fun. - J man708 (talk) 12:41, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

There are only three types of people in this world - those that can count and those that can't.

Glad you found the 2 missing teams ! --Matilda Maniac (talk) 14:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Secondly, if MetroStars make it to the Sixth Round, we're left with three SA teams, not four like the table assumes. If MetroStars win that game, we've already got our SA qualifier, meaning that we would only have 52 teams entered into the Seventh Round, as the SA match is effectively a $5,000 dead rubber, you know? It's all dependent on how far MetroStars make it, I think. Until they get knocked out of qualifying, I think we're gonna have a tough time figuring out the exact numbers. - J man708 (talk) 06:26, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, Metrostars in Round 7 = 1 less fixture. adjust teams remaining as we go each round. one small adjustment to one tiny section of the table each time that Metrostars wins a game - thats easily do-able (not even a boring ten-minute job). --Matilda Maniac (talk) 08:51, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, the matches themselves still count should MetroStars make it to the Seventh Round. There will still be 21 fixtures, just that number 14 will contain two bolded teams. - J man708 (talk) 12:41, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

where were the 2 missing teams ? Once again, i cant add up to 648 !!!

also have adjusted the number of fixtures, which is also technically TBC until it is known whether North Eastern MetroStars reach Round 7.

I just hope that if MetroStars reach the semis (Round 6), they play that semi first, so in the other semi the teams know if they're playing directly for a spot in the Round of 32 or not. Matilda Maniac (talk) 02:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Illawarra Premier League-Correct League Level

What is the correct level of the Illawarra Premier League according to the Australian League System? According to the IPL article whoever wrote that article believes it should sit bellow the A-League and NPL NSW at level 3. However technically being a regional league shouldn't it sit below all the state-wide leagues, ie. bellow NSW State League Division 2 at level 6? --TinTin (talk) 02:18, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I think they're fundamentally independent, so correct level for this article is (-), not (3) or (6). Matilda Maniac (talk) 07:22, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

I take your point, but they're not TOTALLY independent, Football South Coast is associated or a member of Football NSW yeah? --TinTin (talk) 07:57, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

But the competitions are independent - winning the IPL doesnt give you the right to be promoted into one of the essentially Sydney-based competitions, n'est-ce pas? Matilda Maniac (talk) 11:09, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Promotion isn't key. If it were, then all the NPL leagues wouldn't show (2), but would show (-). If a club plays in the Illawarra Permier League, they can nominate to be accepted into the State League 2. The Blacktown League, Sutherland League, Northern Suburbs League and others like this also sit below the NSW NPL/State League setup, which surely warrants their top leagues to be called level 6. - J man708 (talk) 15:50, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

The top four NSW leagues are all played at a state-inclusive level (ie. Wagga City Wanderers playing in the same level 5 comp as Hurstville FC). Under the SL2, all the competitions are held in equal regard as they are sub-regional. I think (6) shows this a lot better than (-). - J man708 (talk) 15:54, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

kudos

Kudos to those working on this article! (J man708 and Matilda Maniac I saw your names heaps in the history)

I want to shoot myself just from scanning it for a few minutes. --SuperJew (talk) 19:37, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Cheers @SuperJew:! I don't know about @Matilda Maniac:, but for me it's been an absolute nightmare. I somewhat hate this article at the moment - 578 edits. I really do need a life. - J man708 (talk) 05:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Far less of a nightmare if we'd stuck to the 2014 format (yes, I'm banging on about it again); the nightmare was in fact imposed by J Man708 ; last year's format was still difficult, but ultimately more readable. Anyway, hundreds of others contributed too, so happy that all of our efforts are appreciated. Starting to get to the business end of the competition now ; and in only 11 weeks all the preliminaries will be over for another year. Matilda Maniac (talk) 08:43, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

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