Talk:2020 Israeli legislative election

UPDATE RESULTS

CURRENTLY 72% Reporting. Source : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWDDr8opZfo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.190.113.2 (talk) 07:41, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Why was the Currently Reporting percentage completely removed from the main page??? 137.226.152.81 (talk) 10:28, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Because it is only meant to be used when votes and/or seats are also being updated in the infobox. Otherwise it is misleading readers into thinking the 'current seats' are the live results. Number 57 10:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, for me personally, it was a measure of, how close we are to seeing the final results. So there is *some* value in knowing the Currently Reporting percentage. Is it worth re-introducing it, with a more clear emphasis that this percentage is not indicative of the seats in the table?137.226.152.81 (talk) 12:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

You can just see the live count here if you want. I don't see any value in trying to shoehorn it in here. Number 57 12:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I mean, the person at the top of this thread found a more updated count (the page you cited still says 64.31%). In other words, I was counting on Wikipedia to have the most updated information regarding the current percentage, so that I wouldn't spend time looking for it myself.137.226.152.81 (talk) 12:57, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

That is not a "more updated count", but purely spam advertising from one person who has been attempting to use Wikipedia to promote their website for months. It's not anything close to a reliable source, nor should data coming from it be considered as reliable. Impru20^talk 13:01, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

For months? The first edit I see in their history was this month, March. Maybe they used another IP address in the past? Though in either case, thank you for elaborating; after comparing their video myself with the official results, I see that indeed there is no new information there, other than the "Currently reporting" percentage; so I see what you mean.137.226.152.81 (talk) 13:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, they have used multiple IP addresses in the past (and will likely do in the future, seeing their ongoing behavioural trend). Impru20^talk 13:25, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Just in case someone doubts the fakeness of the source above: yesterday it was saying 90% of results are in; today, the official count got updated to 70.86% results being in; so I thought I'd look at the video one more time, to see whether it downgraded its prediction. It did not. Though the vote percentages are still displaying yesterday's percentages; they have not been updated with today's numbers. So yes, definitely a fake.137.226.152.81 (talk) 09:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

can someone post the results from the knesset website--213.8.151.40 (talk) 16:39, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I believe that Number57 said that this was not going to happen until the final results are in. In order to avoid misleading people into thinking that all the results show new numbers.

United arab list: 16 Labor Gesher meretz: 7 Kachol Lavan: 32 yisra’el Beitenu: 7 Likud: 36 Yamina: 6 Shas: 9 United Torah judaism: 7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.8.151.40 (talk) 17:02, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Where are these seat totals from? I have added the votes counted so far, but the CEC website does not give seats yet. Number 57

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parlamentswahl_in_Israel_2020 this is where i got them from --213.8.151.40 (talk) 17:28, 3 March 2020 (UTC) their are updates from the knesset website not included yet--213.8.151.40 (talk) 20:56, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

The figures on German Wikipedia are unsourced as far as I can see. Number 57 21:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Without really reading German, I infer from the German wikipedia page that United Torah Judaism and Shas, Likud and Yamina, and Blue & White and Labor-Gesher-Meretz have surplus vote agreements? If someone can verify this and add it to the page, that would seem like an important addition. Based on that and current results at https://votes23.bechirot.gov.il/ (I don't read Hebrew, either), Likud has 36 (getting one from the agreement with Yamina), Blue & White has 32, Joint List 16, Shas 9, UTJ 7, YB 7, Labor-Gesher-Meretz 7, Yamina 6, with Joint List getting the last seat and Shas (from the agreement with UTJ) in line for the next one; it wouldn't take much change in the numbers for Likud to lose that surplus seat, either. 70.131.48.56 (talk) 04:43, 4 March 2020 (UTC) updated voter results are on the knesset website can someone update them--213.8.151.40 (talk) 10:47, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Israel Democratic Party

Can anyone verify or supply information regarding the Israel Democratic Party of Ehud Barak? Are they running for the 23rd Knesset or have they disbanded? Thank you. — Rh0809 Talk 19:41, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

They(Democratic Union) decided to not stand for this election.

- 121.190.113.2 Talk March 2nd 2020 (UTC)

new infobox with pictures?

According Opinion polling Israel will get this time 8 or 9 parties/alliances. We can then do this infobox [[1]] because it supports 9 parties/alliances and it has space enough.

The parties will be then.

Blue and white, Likud, Joint List, Labor-Gesher-Meretz, Shas, Yisrael Beiteinu, UTJ and Yamina. We can add Otzma if they win 1 seat. Shadow4dark (talk) 12:17, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Israeli election articles use the current infobox. The pictures of leaders are unnecessary – this is not a presidential election. Number 57 12:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes we use this current infobox beacause we had to many parties in the past.Shadow4dark (talk) 13:00, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

It'll be fine with just parties. Arglebargle79 (talk) 13:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Number 57:

2019 United Kingdom general election

2019 Canadian federal election

2019 Australian federal election

2020 New Zealand general election

2017 German federal election
Do I need to continue? We use infoboxelection for nearly all parliamentary elections. I believe it shows the information better, though I do understand your argument that it does not show how the coallitions will pan out. We could either add those underneath the parties, like in 2019 Indian general election, or just show Netanyahu and Gantz. KingWither (talk) 14:50, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

No, you don't need to continue, because the examples you give are irrelevant. The infobox currently being used was specifically designed for Israeli elections, which have far more parties entering parliament than most of the countries you mention, and without the dominant parties that exist in some of them. Your last point suggest you don't understand how Israeli politics works, as the only formal coalitions are the electoral lists themselves (i.e. Blue & White, Joint List, Labour–Gesher–Meretz, Yamina etc). Number 57 15:23, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Do you have link for this infobox page?Shadow4dark (talk) 16:15, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2020

numbers in the infobox are not up to date; likud 37, blue & white 32 etc. the results are in already, time to update 63.143.205.35 (talk) 02:59, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Seats aren't allocated until counting is complete, so they can't be updated yet. Number 57 10:16, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Ongoing election "yes" is misleading

I changed "ongoing" in the Infobox from "yes" to blank so that it defaults to "no". There are no results yet but the voting is over. To list seats as "current" implies to people who do not know better -- people who come to Wikipedia to learn -- that the seats listed are the seats won in the voting recently concluded. Maybe this an error with the infobox ( Template:Infobox election ). Maybe it should not say "current" when "ongoing" is "yes". Or maybe there should be a third option. Regardless, choosing "yes" is misleading. So I was WP:BOLD and changed it. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 08:47, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Infobox election

2020 Israeli legislative election

2 March 2020
All 120 seats in the Knesset 61 seats needed for a majority
First party Second party Third party   Leader Benjamin Netanyahu Benny Gantz Ayman Odeh Party Likud Blue and White Joint List Last election 32 seats, 25.1% 33 seats, 25.9% 13 seats, 10.6% Seats won 36 33 15 Seat change 4 2 Popular vote 1,352,334 1,220,290 581,540 Percentage 29.5 26.6 12.6 Swing 3.8% 0.7% 2.0%   Fourth party Fifth party Sixth party   Leader Aryeh Deri Yaakov Litzman Amir Peretz Party Shas UTJ Labor–Gesher–Meretz Last election 9 seats, 7.4% 7 seats, 6.0% 10 seats, 11.0% Seats won 9 7 7 Seat change 3 Popular vote 352,842 274,438 267,457 Percentage 7.7 6.0 5.8 Swing 0.3% 5.2%   Seventh party Eighth party   Leader Avigdor Lieberman Naftali Bennett Party Yisrael Beiteinu Yamina Last election 8 seats, 7.0% 7 seats, 5.9% Seats won 7 6 Seat change 1 1 Popular vote 263,335 240,590 Percentage 5.7 5.2 Swing 1.3% 0.7%
Prime Minister before election Benjamin Netanyahu (caretaker government) Likud Elected Prime Minister TBD

The 2020 Israeli election is the first one to have less than ten parties with seats.

All other Israeli elections use {{infobox legislative election}}, instead of the {{infobox election}} commonly used for elections in other countries. {{infobox legislative election}} is quite limited; it only shows the party's name, leader's name, percentage, share of seats post-election and seat change. The only reason {{infobox legislative election}} is used in these elections is because they have more than ten parties with seats, while {{infobox election}}, which has space for all the data {{infobox legislative election}} omits (such as the number of votes or percentage swing), can only fit in up to nine parties.

I created this {{infobox election}} for the 2020 elections and even put it in the article. However, User:Number 57 reverted it to the {{infobox legislative election}}, because apparently this is a radical change which requires consensus instead of a merely technical one. Glide08 (talk) 23:28, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Your opening premise is untrue. The September 2019 election saw only nine lists cross the threshold. There are two reasons for using {{Infobox legislative election}}: Firstly, we should be consistent throughout the series of election articles on which infobox we use. Secondly, as shown to the right; infobox election is not an effective summary, as it is over a page long (there is no need to show images of the leaders for a start). Number 57 23:35, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know that the Sept. 2019 election also had nine parties at the time, but thank you for informing me. Also, the consistency argument is actually against {{infobox legislative election}}'s favor; almost all parliamentary election pages use {{infobox election}}, while {{infobox legislative election}} is generally used where there's more than 10 parties. Glide08 (talk) 23:52, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

The consistency argument is about a series of articles on a particular countries. Different countries have different electoral systems and therefore different infoxboxes may be appropriate. The legislative election infobox would not be suitable for two-party countries like the US. Number 57 23:54, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

{{infobox election}} is used for legislative elections in countries that have multi-party systems as well, Including India, France, Germany, the UK, and Spain.

And I think there's a good case for using infobox legislative election on those articles too – certainly the UK and India, which have more than 10 parties with seats. Consensus has been reached to use it on Next United Kingdom general election and Next Irish general election, and hopefully over time editors will get used to what is still a relatively new way of displaying information (many discussions on switching end in no consensus rather than outright rejection of the change). I suspect much of the resistance to it is because many people instinctively oppose change. Number 57 00:04, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

As, I presume, is your resistance for having {{infobox election}} in the 2020 (and, apparently September 2019) Israeli election pages. Glide08 (talk) 00:07, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Also, the consensus for using {{infobox legislative election}} in Next United Kingdom general election and Next Irish general election extends only until the election results are actually declared. Once results come in, {{infobox election}} would be used. Glide08 (talk) 00:09, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, it's due to the aforementioned concerns about consistency and infobox election being ineffective an ineffective summary. I've said on numerous occasions that Infobox election is not useful when it goes beyond a single line (which means it is only effective for a maximum of three parties/candidates). With regards to the UK infobox, I suspect/hope attitudes will eventually change on using it for past elections. Number 57 00:12, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

In Talk:Next Irish general election, it's clearly said, and I quote: Glide08 (talk) 00:15, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

"I agree. How about something like what is being used now in the Next United Kingdom general election ({{infobox legislative election}})? Then switch back to the current format ({{infobox election}}) when the election is called? Spleodrach (talk) 20:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC)"

"Yes, that's a lot neater. I'll amend to that format in the morning, if nobody beats me to it. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 23:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)"

Yes, and hopefully at some point there'll be consensus to switch over to using Infobox legislative election all the time rather than just before elections. Number 57 00:21, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

It presents exactly the same information as Infobox:Legislative election, just in a different format, so you cant say it is not an accurate summary for the information. KingWither (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

In fact, it shows even more information, such as the vote numbers and swing relative to the last election. Glide08 (talk) 16:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

And by displaying more information, it becomes far too large to be an effective summary, thus failing MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE ("The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose"). Particularly in the case of Israel (with a fully proportional electoral system), the swing isn't that important as it is directly reflected in the seat change. Number 57 16:41, 9 March 2020 (UTC)