Talk:2022 Vaughan shooting

Address

"The building...is located at 9325 Jane Street" says our article. The only problem here is that, according to Google Maps, the four buildings in the complex have the addresses 9225, 9235, 9245 and 9255, but none is 9325. Until the question of the building's address is, well, addressed, it would be a better idea to be a bit more general about its location. Is it Tower I, II, III or IV? Does anybody know? The coördinates in the article point at Tower II (9235 Jane St). Is that in fact correct? Anyway, until that is worked out, I shall put a more general location. Kelisi (talk) 22:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I have just found out that CTV got the address wrong. It is indeed Tower II (9235 Jane St). The York Regional Police news release makes that clear. I have adjusted the article's contents. Kelisi (talk) 22:16, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't support your edit.

There are four buildings, with four addresses, and the address this happened at is one of them.

"9235 Jane Street in the City of Vaughan" https://www.yrp.ca/en/Modules/News/index.aspx?newsId=8479495b-ee68-4a36-b9da-f9a4350c653b

"9235 Jane Street"https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/12/18/vaughan-condo-shooting-leaves-at-least-five-dead.html

There is no need to be vague when reliable sources are specific. CT55555(talk) 22:17, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

There is no need to be specific. People live there and do not need to be annoyed by gawkers. WWGB (talk) 00:01, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Specificity is a useful thing in encyclopedias in general. In the context of this being information in the online news already, is there a policy or guidance that supports what you are saying? CT55555(talk) 00:15, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:DOB, "articles should not include postal addresses, e-mail addresses, telephone numbers, or other contact information for living persons". WWGB (talk) 00:36, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Knowing the building number but not the specific unit is only a partial address. The only person who lived there that is named in the article is dead. The policy applies to biographical articles and surely means the specific unit people live in, the location of the building is no more specific than the coordiantes.

In the context of this information being widely visible online already, do editors think being non-soecific about where the event happened is a necessary precaution? CT55555(talk) 01:04, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Just as long as we don't mention Villi's unit number — although he names it in his FB videos (they are still there). Kelisi (talk) 05:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Note above "contact information for living persons". (emphasis mine) CT55555(talk) 05:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, and there are many living people (including the surviving victim) living in the block, and deserve to without ghouls and sightseers hanging around outside the building. WWGB (talk) 06:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

I doubt that you actually know where the surviving victim lives, but if you actually do, you should not share that information here, especially while making an argument about privacy.

The location of this incident is widely known. Every one of these articles gives the address:

1. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/francesco-villi-vaughan-shooting-what-we-know-1.6691201
2. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/12/18/vaughan-condo-shooting-leaves-at-least-five-dead.html
3. https://www.cp24.com/news/timeline-what-we-know-about-the-vaughan-mass-shooting-1.6200946
4. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-vaughan-condo-board-shooting/
5. https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/news/five-victims-of-mass-killing-shot-in-different-units-of-luxury-condo-near-toronto-by-gunman-who-lived-there-source-says-100807448/
6. https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ts/news/gta/2022/12/19/man-identified-as-vaughan-mass-killer-targeted-condo-board-in-frivolous-andor-vexatious-lawsuit.html

Censoring it here is not logical. CT55555(talk) 06:20, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Victim names

Recent discussions have favoured the inclusion of victim names in mass killing articles. On that basis, I will not oppose the inclusion. However, each victim does not warrant a separate subsection, or inclusion of details like ethnicity and past employment. The section has been abridged to prose form with relevant details only. WWGB (talk) 10:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thank you. CT55555(talk) 13:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Villi's daughters' statement

In response to the shooting incident, Francesco Villi's three estranged daughters issued a statement, published on December 21, expressing their condolences, and also their shock and heartbreak at what had happened. It also characterized Villi as a "controlling and abusive husband and father". The daughters described their father as having "an aggressive, 'Jekyll and Hyde'-type personality", and as having a history of abusiveness towards his daughters and their mothers. The estrangement, according to the statement, arose from the daughters' concerns about their own health and wellbeing.

References

There is disagreement over whether the foregoing passage should be included in its entirety in the article's "Perpetrator" section. I maintain that it is relevant as it gives the reader reason to believe that Francesco Villi had longstanding psychological problems and consequently did not relate well to those around him, not even his family. Another user, WWGB, disagrees and keeps removing certain parts of this paragraph. I understand that the onus is on me to seek a consensus for its inclusion. Would anybody else care to share an opinion on the matter? Kelisi (talk) 03:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC) Kelisi (talk) 03:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Villi's alleged (mis)treatment of his family has no direct relevance to the shootings. WP:NOTEVERYTHING. I agree that the Jekyll and Hyde reference should remain, as it goes towards his behaviour at the condo. WWGB (talk) 03:47, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

But my contention is that his problems with control and aggression going back decades give a clearer picture of what led to the shooting. Villi's longstanding problems are perfectly germane to the topic, surely. Kelisi (talk) 04:00, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

His history of violence seems relevant. It made the news (in reliable sources). If he was alive, I'd need to think harder about this, but he's not, so BLP issues are not relevant. I lean towards including. CT55555(talk) 04:20, 23 December 2022 (UTC)