Talk:2023 French pension reform strikes

Clarity

Does this mean a person 62 years old today now has to wait until 64? Or does it mean starting with 30 year olds today, they will now have to wait until 64?

If the first, I understand the outrage. If the later, it seems reasonable. 187.230.159.162 (talk) 00:33, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

The minimum age would be increased by 3 months every year, so it'd be 62 and 3 months in 2023, 62 and 6 months in 2024, 62 and 9 months in 2025, and so on. Minhn1994 (talk) 12:37, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like stealing, the outrage is understandable. Something like, applicable only to people under the age of 45 would have been reasonable. 187.234.95.87 (talk) 01:41, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

No the outrage isnt understandable. Is 3 months crazy for someone now? You still get a guaranteed pension. How many countries give you that? You prefer not to receive the full amount because the system is bankrupt? They are acting extremely selfish in that regard. 149.97.165.53 (talk) 19:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The unrest has wide anti-capitalist, socialist and anti-authoritarian support, the specifics of governance and pension policy aren't the only things being criticised here. RopeAndLampOil (talk) 14:26, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

To 149,97.165.53: Please read guidance at top of page: "This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject", let alone for ill-informed politically biased nonsense. Please desist. BobBadg (talk) 11:43, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

RN in support

I removed the National Rally (RN, formerly FN) from support in the infobox, since the RN doesn't support the protests (quite the opposite in fact), while opposing the reform. Lexoomfie (talk) 19:19, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

do you have a source? Von bismarck (talk) 15:35, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2023/01/24/le-rassemblement-national-dans-la-rue-pour-les-boulangers-plus-hesitant-pour-les-retraites_6159068_823448.html Une quinzaine de députés du RN se sont présentés, place de la Nation à Paris, pour la manifestation des boulangers, démentant par l’exemple le premier argument du parti pour ne pas défiler aux côtés des syndicats : « La rue n’est pas dans notre ADN »

https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/reforme-des-retraites-pourquoi-le-rn-rassemblement-national-de-marine-le-pen-se-tient-il-eloigne-du-debat-a-assemblee-et-des-manifestations-2246775.html

tl;dr they are officially against the text, but do not want trade unions to protests in the streets Lexoomfie (talk) 17:10, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Historically the FN/RN has been against trade unions and demonstrations by said trade unions, so such statements aren’t surprising globally. Lexoomfie (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

ok thanks Von bismarck (talk) 17:19, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

No problem! Lexoomfie (talk) 17:21, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Fork?

This article is getting long. Thoughts on a fork? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

This needs work: The quoting stands out compared to the French Wikipedia article. RAN1 (talk) 04:13, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree - it feels needlessly long. Flubberpuff (talk) 01:45, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

One thing to not lose would be the elaborations about Article 49.3. It is basically an avenue for an authoritarian decision. This looks 'interesting' when Macron and Co lecture Niger about democracy (re changing leader through coup). If there is a split, a page about usage of 49.3 should be put up. It had been tried before in this long pension age saga. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:893C:7779:90D2:447C (talk) 02:45, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Yellow vests protests copying

The "Other occurrences" from the Yellow vests protests infobox have been copied here (minus the sources) 4 times now, and I've reverted 3 of them. I'm flagging this for removal here because it's dubious and unsourced. RAN1 (talk) 17:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move

2023 French pension reform strikes → 2023 French pension reform unrest or 2023 French pension reform protests – since the event has grown into something far beyond strikes at this point, with demonstrations, protests and riots in many French cities. 94.79.101.213 (talk) 23:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done: Moved to unrest; strikes or protests doesn't cover it. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I disagree, unrest has a certain negative baggage, the article should be named something like 2023 French pension reform social movement, it has a more neutral and objective baggage. Lexoomfie (talk) 14:33, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Casualities

you can add the number of people injured in the protests, for example, the Reuters agency reports over 400 injured officers and tens or hundreds of protesters 188.147.100.107 (talk) 20:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Blackrock headquarters stormed

Anti-Macron protesters have stormed the Blackrock headquarters in Paris. Should this be added to the page?[1]https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/business/blackrock-office-stormed-paris-protests/index.html 98.22.34.247 (talk) 19:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Why is this page titled "unrest" instead of "protests" or "social movement" ?

There are zero occurrences of the word "unrest" in the body of the article and three occurrences in the references (including "Macron dismisses unrest" & "French unrest impacts King Charles III's trip"). By contrast there are 279 occurrences of the word "protest". Compare to the French "Mouvement social contre la réforme des retraites en France de 2023", which is far too long... and which contains only one occurrence of the word "émeute" in a citation from Emmanuel Macron at the Assemblé nationale.

For full transparency, I should note that prior to my first edit to this page there was one occurrence of the word "unrest" in the lede of the article, which I removed as the word was nowhere to be found in the body of the article. By contrast, there was no mention in the lede of the fact that there were over 1 million demonstrators on the first day of the protests (by police estimates). For reference, this is more than three times the number of people in the streets on the first day of the Yellow vests protests. I arrived here because this page was listed in the category 2023 French riots and because a disambiguation page was created at 2023 French riots after it was requested that Nahel Merzouk protests be moved to that page.

In my opinion, the title of this page should include the word "protests" as they were, taken collectively, by far the largest protests in 21st century France. -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 20:03, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Riot section needs substantial improvement

A disambiguation was created listing this page, along with the current Nahel Merzouk protests as 2023 French riots. I created the rioting section on this page because it seemed to me a blatant contradiction of both WP:CATDEFINING and of MOS:DABNOENTRY since few reliable sources call these protests riots and since neither page contained the word "riots" in the title. As such, the rioting section of the page really needs improvement. Could those of you who have been following this page help? It would also be especially nice if those who were so keen on the change, despite the lack of material here on rioting, would help too... care to pitch in @Minnemeeples: & @Hey man im josh:? -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 02:58, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

On the update tag

Not going to remove it, as that's just my opinion, but I think there's not much to say after June. Macron forced in through in April, and despite all the "we will never stop fighting" speeches by the left and the unions, once it was finished protest sort of petered out. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 07:31, 19 June 2024 (UTC)