Talk:2023 Nigerian general election/Archive 1

Archive 1

Name change

User:Panam2014, Why was the name changed? And why wasn't any explanation given? Watercheetah99 (talk) 23:04, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Because it is general elections.--Panam2014 (talk) 11:15, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

What? Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:00, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

For example, 2018 Pakistani general election and some African countries. Panam2014 (talk) 19:33, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

That page is the main page for the parliamentary election and includes other elections on the same day. This page lists all of the elections happening over the year on one page, there is not one election and all of the elections have there own main pages. It is more akin to the 2021 United States elections page, may you please move it back. Watercheetah99 (talk) 01:39, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Nope. General elections includes both elections. Panam2014 (talk) 11:53, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

What are you talking about? There are plenty of elections of different type happening throughout the year, it's not one election and now it's inconsistent with other pages of the same type. I just gave a clear equivalent with the same government system and the same disparate elections throughout the year. Move it back please. Watercheetah99 (talk) 11:56, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

2022 are only by-elections and local elections. Panam2014 (talk) 21:04, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

How are you saying something that is just not true about a publicly accessible page? There are NASS and assembly by-elections, but also scheduled gubernatorial and local elections. Again, this is completely consistent with United States elections pages (which cover a nation with the same government system and the same disparate elections throughout the year). How difficult is it to just go "oh I made a mistake" and revert it? It's not a big deal. Watercheetah99 (talk) 22:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

General elections covers presidential parliamentary and local elections. Panam2014 (talk) 04:36, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Your unilateral name change is a mistake. Panam2014 (talk) 04:37, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

For US we have article for presidential election. For 2020 there are no presidential election in Nigeria. Panam2014 (talk) 04:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

This is just a lie, there is a presidential election in 2023. Watercheetah99 (talk) 05:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I have given you direct examples and rationales for why the name was changed: consistency with other Nigerian election pages, consistency with like pages from other nations, and the fact that these are many elections happening over the course of months from (at the very least) February to November. You have responded with easily debunkable falsehoods about the easily accessible information: "2022 are only by-elections and local elections" - Not true as page disproves this, "For 2020 there are no presidential election in Nigeria" - this page is for 2023 which clearly has a presidential election, and citing the 2018 Pakistani general election - where only five different elections were held on the same day in a different government system. unless you have a genuine case, this is open-and-shut Watercheetah99 (talk) 05:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes it does...when those elections all happen at the same time, not when they take place over months. Watercheetah99 (talk) 05:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The examples are not about the same things. Panam2014 (talk) 11:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Okay you just aren't making sense Watercheetah99 (talk) 12:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Okay you just aren't making sense Panam2014 (talk) 12:35, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

"The examples are not about the same things" in reply to "Yes it does...when those elections all happen at the same time, not when they take place over months" makes no sense. Read what you are writing Watercheetah99 (talk) 13:12, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Let's recap this discussion:

1. I ask a simply question on the name change → You give a circular non-answer
2. I ask for clarification → You give an irrelevant comparison
3. I explain why it is not relevant and ask you to move it back → You say no and go back to the circular non-answer
4. I again explain why your comparison is not relevant and ask you to move it back → You lie about the contents of a page that I just linked
5. I point out the lie and again explain a better comparison → You go back to your circular non-answer then lie again
6. I point out your new lie then try to counter your three arguments and give three reasons why the name should go back before reverting the name → You change the name to "general elections" (which isn't a thing) before attempting to get a completely separate page I made deleted.

Presidential elections

@Number 57: we should merge with the article of presidential election. --Panam2014 (talk) 12:38, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Why. That article is literally longer than this one. You don't even care about this article, you didn't even know Nigeria had a presidential election in 2023. The only reason you even want to change the name is because you are desperate to be right. And now you are trying to punitively merge pages that should obviously be separate because you are simply unable to justify your action. I am changing the name because I am the only person in this discussion who has given direct evidence instead of lying about the pages that we are literally looking at. Give a concrete reason why "general elections" (because I guess there are multiple general elections now) is better or stop. Watercheetah99 (talk) 13:09, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

GENERAL election = presidential+parliamentary(+ eventuelly local elections). One article is needed. Panam2014 (talk) 13:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

You literally just explained my point. There are other pages for those elections and thus this page should not be called "general election" just like with the 2020 United States elections page. You're so desperate to be right that you never even bothered to read what I said. This isn't Pakistan, the UK, or Canada where there is one page for one election on one election day, there are at least 69 different Nigerian elections in 2023 with their own pages that are happening from February to November. Watercheetah99 (talk) 13:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

You have done nothing but lie and deflect since the moment I started this discussion, refusing to speak on direct points and lying about the content of articles that I personally wrote. My question now is why? Why are you even here? You clearly don't care about the election or its page, you didn't even bother to read the page and see that that there is a presidential election happening or that there are already pages for the presidential, Senate, House, and gubernatorial elections. Why? Watercheetah99 (talk) 13:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Result:
No consensus. See no agreement below to make this page move. Since the most stable title had by this article is the current one, that is where it will remain. A WP:SPLIT proposal has been made below, and that's another conversation. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can discover new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again in a few months to garner consensus for a name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 19:06, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

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2023 Nigerian general election → 2023 Nigerian elections – I request this move as the current title indicates that there is one central election on one day (like Pakistani and British election pages); however, there are dozens of different elections in Nigeria throughout 2023 (from February to at least November) making this page more comparable to the 2020 United States elections (especially as they are both presidential systems with a large number of disparate elections throughout the year). Also, as the component elections in this page already have unique pages, it is no longer like the 2019 page where there was no separate presidential election page. In accordance with other like pages, such as the 2022 Nigerian elections, I believe 2023 Nigerian elections is more accurate. Watercheetah99 (talk) 23:25, 19 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:40, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Rather than move it, I would suggest a split, and keep the original content (which just covered the general election as per 2019 Nigerian general election) at this title, and move the remainder to 2023 Nigerian elections. Number 57 09:21, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

What would said original content be? I think there is a benefit to having separate pages to avoid overly-long articles. Also, what would be kept on this pages that isn't already covered by other pages—we needs remember that there are individual pages for the presidential, Senate, House, and gubernatorial elections, this isn't 2019 when that central page was the only page on any and all 2019 Nigerian elections. Tons of users have spent the last few years greatly expanding Nigerian elections pages, why should we regress to the 2019 status when 2023 already has dozens more pages than 2019 had at the time of the elections itself. Watercheetah99 (talk) 13:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

• 'Oppose per @Number 57: Panam2014 (talk) 17:10, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  Please elaborate Watercheetah99 (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose There is a distinction between "{year} {country} elections" and "{year} {country} {election name} election" in the sense the former is more of a disambiguation page and the latter is more specific. This page appears to be about one specific election, not all elections over the course of the year, making a move inappropriate, and any issues can be cleaned up with normal editing (it's possible for both pages to co-exist). SportingFlyer T·C 17:15, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  How is this page about one specific election? What election is that? This page covers the presidential, Senate, and House elections in February; some gubernatorial and assembly elections in March; more gubernatorial elections in October and November; and TBA local elections throughout the year along with reruns, supplementary elections, and by-elections. Again, this is almost exactly comparable to the 2020 United States elections page and just not like "general election" pages. Watercheetah99 (talk) 17:32, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  Thought the article was specifically about the 25 February election. Perhaps this is wrong as it is formatted more like the elections pages. SportingFlyer T·C 22:29, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  It was originally, and I think should have remained as such. A separate article could be created on all the elections through the year at the proposed title. Number 57 23:15, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  But what would a "general election" page have that won't already be covered by other pages? A general election page is either one election (like 2018 Pakistani general election) or a composition of various elections on the same day (like 2019 Nigerian general election), I think we have established that the former isn't the case but the latter isn't what's required either as what's the point in having a "general election" page that covers (I presume) the presidential, Senate, and House elections in February when all of those individual elections already have their own pages? The previous suggestion of merging them all into one page also doesn't make much sense considering how long that page would be and the little gained from reducing the amount of specialized pages and their detail. Watercheetah99 (talk) 23:38, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  It would effectively be a summary/WP:DABCONCEPT-type page like 2018 Turkish general election or 2020 Taiwanese general election. Number 57 13:08, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

  Yes, but what would be functionally different between a prospective 2023 Nigerian general election page and the presidential and NASS sections of the 2023 Nigerian elections page? Like i dont have an issue with it but it seems redundant. Watercheetah99 (talk) 14:24, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

  Typically multiple elections on the same day are considered general elections, and a quick search shows Nigerian sources (along with some international ones) are calling the February 2023 one a general election. Perhaps that's not what we need to do on here but it does lend to the confusion. SportingFlyer T·C 12:18, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Image sequencing in Infobox

I feel like the image gallery gives the impression that Tinubu is the top candidate, followed by Obi then Atiku. If we are going by alphabetical order with their first names, then the sequence should be Atiku, Bola Tinubu then Peter Obi. If we want to use last name, it should be: Atiku Abubakar, Peter Obi then Bola Tinubu. I assume the editor probably used alphabetical order for their party, which will result to: APC (Tinubu), LP (Peter Obi) then PDP (Atiku). I looked at infobox image gallery for United States elections, and couldn't find pre-election consistency there either. I just don't want any candidate to be positioned in the minds of people as being favorites through Wikipedia because this thing is psychological. Hopefully, party sequencing is what is always being used. Personally, I would say remove those large images till after the elections except there is a clear guideline on the sequence.HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:21, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

It is alphabetical by party. All Nigerian pages are alphabetical by party and (as far as I've seen) other pages are also alphabetical by party (examples: 1, 2, 3, 4). While I understand the sentiment, someone is going to be first no matter what and consistency with other pages is going by party alphabetical order so its APC then LP then PDP. Watercheetah99 (talk) 19:28, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• PETER-OBI.webp

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:07, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Peter-Obi.jpg

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Atiku Abubakar.jpg

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Peter Obi.png

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Requested move 1 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. The discussion was open for 42 days, and a consensus could not be achieved. No prejudice against a new move discussion (with better advertisement at related wikiprojects) after couple of month. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:27, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

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2023 Nigerian general election → 2023 Nigerian elections – I again request this move as the current title indicates that there is one central election on one day (like 2018 Pakistani and 2019 British election pages); however, there are dozens of different elections in Nigeria throughout 2023 (from February to at least November) making this page more comparable to the 2020 United States elections (especially as they are both presidential systems with a large number of disparate elections throughout the year). Also, as the component elections in this page already have unique pages, it is no longer like the 2019 page where there was no separate presidential election page. In accordance with other like pages, such as the 2022 Nigerian elections, I believe 2023 Nigerian elections is more accurate. When I brought this up last, it was clear that the user that moved this page is not familiar with the content of the page; when I requested it be moved back others seemingly understood why but stopped short of supporting and thus the inaccurate title stook. Watercheetah99 (talk) 06:02, 1 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 07:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose It's been less than a month since the last RM with the same requested target, so this isn't really appropriate. Again, I would suggest splitting the article and keeping the presidential/parliamentary election covered at the current title, and make a 2023 Nigerian elections article that covers all elections, including state ones, by-elections etc. Number 57 10:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

  That still doesn't make sense, it would be entirely redundant to have two articles that pretty much say the same thing. There would be no purpose to a "general election" page that would just be an excerpt of two sections of the "elections" page. I would literally just be copying and pasting the entire page. And how can it be inappropriate when the last discussion never finished, no one responded to carry it on. So I could just move a page to an inaccurate title, wait out the move request, and the wrong title is kept? Because we can all agree that the current title does not fit the page. Watercheetah99 (talk) 17:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

  If the current title doesn't fit the page, it's because you added non-national-level elections to it. It was originally started as an article focussed on the national general election. Number 57 18:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

  I added them for the same reason it makes no sense to make a second page now: two pages on the exact same subject is completely redundant and confusing. Having two pages helps nobody when one page is just a section of the other. There is absolutely nothing that would be on a "general election" page that wouldn't be on the Pres and NASS sections of the "elections" page; they both would have just broad overviews of the elections because each election already has its own page. Watercheetah99 (talk) 19:22, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

  You can't just not respond so the status quo is kept again. How is anyone supposed to discuss change on this site when one side can just unilaterally change the name and refuse to engage until the proposal is closed? Watercheetah99 (talk) 06:54, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Text of reverted closure

The result of the move request was: not moved. RM is not for content disputes like these. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 02:37, 10 June 2022 (UTC) How is anything supposed to be changed on this site when one side can just unilaterally change the name, openly admit that the name is wrong and they know nothing about the subject, and then refuse to engage until the proposal is closed? And for some reason, I can't even change the name back. Where can I have this discussion with users that actually want to discuss in good faith? Watercheetah99 (talk) 03:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

• Neutral comment – I reserve judgement pending further discussion (probably outside of the RM context) on Number 57's split proposal. It seems that both agree that the current contents are not great, and that's why the title is not great. If the decision is to have 2023 Nigerian elections as broad concept or list article, what content will stay, and what will move to what other article? If no new articles are needed because they already exist, then what duplicated material will be removed from here? Perhaps Watercheetah99 and Number 57 can state clear proposals to chose between if they don't have one they can agree on in common. An RFC may be needed to get a few eyeballs on it (and it should be phrased as a neutral choice, after the options are clearly articulated. Dicklyon (talk) 22:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

  I think the current content is perfectly fine, it's the title that I have issue with. I keep on comparing the article to the 2020 United States elections page due to the similar circumstances and that sort of broad overview is what I'm going for with this article. The content is fine as it is.

  Splitting the page would require copying half of the content (2/4 elections: the Pres and NASS elections) and pasting it into a new page called 2023 Nigerian general election. There is just no need for it, the broad overview of that content is covered here on a page that should be called 2023 Nigerian elections while the in-depth details are on the pres and NASS individual pages.

  In the end, I just think the name should be moved back. It never should have been changed in the first place (if you read "Name change" the mover didn't even read the page) plus splitting is needless. Watercheetah99 (talk) 03:50, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  The content is the issue. The article was originally about the general election at the national level; Watercheetah99 attempted to turn it into a generic election covering all elections (including state ones) and move the article to reflect their changes.

  This edit is quite disappointing – the RM closed with no consensus to move, yet Watercheetah99 continued to attempt to impose their agenda by changing the article's introduction and infobox title to match the title they want (but didn't get). Not sanctionable, but certainly not really appropriate.

  The simple and obvious solution is to restore this article's content to that covering the nationwide general election on 25 February, and all the other elections on other dates be covered in a 2023 Nigerian elections article. Number 57 11:52, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  You have continued to parrot this "it was originally a general election page and should be returned to that" line but have never once identified the purpose of that split - once again, what would be on a "general election" page that wouldn't be on the Pres and NASS sections of the "elections" page. Not only is such a split purposeless, your point isn't even true as the last "general election" page has state elections on it as we speak. Plus you have again fully resigned that the current name is wrong, stop opposing this move and open a split discussion if you're so adamant about that.

  Lol "not really appropriate." The RM closed because you refused to respond when faced with actually having to justify two separate articles and the current name. To lecture others on what is appropriate when you twice ghosted good faith discussion is quite rich. Watercheetah99 (talk) 14:55, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  I don't see why I need to respond when we are just going round in circles. I have repeatedly said what I think should happen – one article on the general election on 25 February, and one on all elections across the year. The general election article would be a more detailed one on the national election, while the other one would be a WP:DABCONCEPT-type article covering all the different elections in brief and linking to the relevant articles. I don't see what's so hard to understand about my thinking.

  Regarding the "current name is wrong" argument, this is because you have changed the content to match what you want the title to be. As long as the article remains at the current title, this should be rolled back. It just looks like you are trying to game the system by doing this. Number 57 15:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  You saying "I don't see why I need to respond" makes sense, that would require basic good faith instead of ghosting before circling back to points addressed months ago. The your "repeatedly said" case has been addressed since April: if the "general election" page is a broad overview then everything there would be in the Pres and NASS sections of the "elections" page while if the "general election" page is detailed then everything there would be on the Pres and NASS individual pages. I have said this on April 19, April 20, April 21, June 2, and today. Back in April you cited the 2020 Taiwanese general election and the 2018 Turkish general election, two elections that both happened on the same day and do not have a corresponding "elections" page unlike this page–the main comparison to this page is the 2020 United States elections page due to the same system+circumstances; there is notably not a 2020 United States general election page solely for the November 3 elections because that would be entirely redundant.

  Again, I did not "change the content to match what I want the title to be," the 2019 Nigerian general election page also has state elections on it. I added content that was already on the last page, how should I have known that adding the same content to the successor page was an inappropriate affront to the grand Wikipedia system that I'm apparently trying to game. Watercheetah99 (talk) 19:15, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  Could you not ghost discussion for the third time please? Watercheetah99 (talk) 19:05, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

  I can't see any reason why this page shouldn't be moved when those opposed to the move refuse to engage for months on end. Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

• Comment Note how the 2020 United States elections are simultaneous (and were generally done on one ballot IIRC), and the 2019 Argentine general election elected not only at the national level, but also politicians at the subnational level. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 21:11, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  The 2020 United States elections were not simultaneous, there are many mentions of elections (mainly referendums, local elections, tribal elections, and special elections) that were not on Election Day. Number 57's argument says that the 2020 United States elections page should also be split into an "elections" page for all 2020 US elections and a "general election page" for just the elections on November 3. That would be needless.

  The 2019 Argentine general election name makes sense for the same reason the 2019 Nigerian general election name made sense, there isn't (or wasn't in the 2019 Nigeria case) detailed articles on the presidential, legislative, and subnational elections they had to be included on a single page and it made some sense to name the page after the most prominent election even if it's not 100% accurate. This is not the case on this page, there is no election where this is the primary page. Watercheetah99 (talk) 21:21, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

  Could you please continue discussion? This cannot continue to happen, it has been months. Watercheetah99 (talk) 15:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Usernamekiran: as closer, which title is the most recent stable title? Just out of curiosity—I do not want to contest the close. Context: bases on #Name change, #Requested move 19 April 2022 is actually a discussion to revert an undiscussed move. WP:RMCI says that no consensus results mean the article should be at the most recent stable title (Therefore, if a page has been moved from a long-standing title, and it is not possible to move the page back to its original title during the discussion, the default title will be the title prior to the contested move. and other parts of that section). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:05, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

@Rotideypoc41352: Hi. Thanks for the query. The issue is not only with article title, but it is about the content as well. Similar to Dicklyon said, a discussion about splitting the article would be more useful. I am leaning towards moving the article to "2023 Nigerian elections", but now as an involved editor, I shouldnt do it. I still feel having a discussion about the split would be fruitful. Let me know if there are further queries/doubts. Regards, —usernamekiran (talk) 04:33, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

This is not sustainable. Number 57 (talk · contribs) and Panam2014 (talk · contribs) have refused to engage in discussion for months on end. They have no case whatsoever nor do they care about or have basic knowledge of the page's content yet continue to ghost discussion to impose their frankly bizarre agenda. They are unable to justify the title but know that ghosting discussion will lead to nothing changing. Watercheetah99 (talk) 21:00, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

page move explanation: I have reverted the article title to the stable title. Also, upon looking through the history, and based on the content it is evident that "2023 Nigerian elections" is appropriate title for the article. Like it has been said by other editors in the move discussion, this is also a form content dispute. So it is also recommended to create an article out of the redirect, and keep relevant content on each of the article. Regards, —usernamekiran (talk) 05:10, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

@Number 57 and Usernamekiran: I challenge this move. There are any consensus. Panam2014 (talk) 08:36, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

@Panam2014: May I ask why do you not agree with the page move? I recommend creating two different articles for two different topics. —usernamekiran (talk) 09:03, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

@Usernamekiran: crurent article is an OR. In Nigeria these elections are called general et does not include gubernoral election. These move is a violation of the July closure. Panam2014 (talk) 09:10, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

@Watercheetah99, Number 57, and Panam2014: I have moved the page again. This clearly needs a wider discussion. I will neutrally initiate a discussion a few hours at wikiproject. I hope we get more participation. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

This has happened three times over the course of months: they will make a couple circular arguments before ghosting the discussion so the status quo is kept. Panam2014 (talk · contribs) literally has zero knowledge of this page, they said there wasn't a presidential election — their sole purpose in this discussion is being right at all costs. "In Nigeria these elections are called general et does not include gubernoral election" — exactly, that's why the title should be elections. They have done little more than lie and ghost for months simply for their egos but now we are supposed to pretend like they will engage in good faith discussion? Watercheetah99 (talk) 15:12, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

• I request everybody to continue the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics#2023 Nigerian general election to keep the discussion at one place. The wikiproject also has better visibility. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Why is kwankwaso's name deleted

I have noticed that certain people are trying to turn Wikipedia into a politics battleground. Otherwise I couldn't possibly see the reason why some users constantly delete my contribution about kwankwaso's presidency. Kwankwaso is not a local politician and his party is gaining politically elected members of the hor and senate almost everyday. Why will you be biased on something you have no control over? Mujaheed21 (talk) 16:39, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Since the NNPP is not a major party, evidence needs to be bought that Kwankwaso should be considered a major candidate. The majority of coverage on the election refer to either Atiku-Tinubu-Obi or Atiku-Tinubu, Kwankwaso isn't a minor figure but being a former governor does not automatically mean one is a major candidate. Please go to the presidential election article's talk page and put some articles referring to Kwankwaso as a major candidate so there can be discussion about his inclusion. Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:55, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree to Watercheetah99. If NNPP is not a major party, the evidence needs to be bought that Kwankwaso should be considered a major candidate. Migfab008 (talk) 07:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Is Labour Party a major party in Nigeria? If Kwankwaso is not a major contender, why then was Obi initially in talks with him for a possible joint ticket? Kwankwaso is a major candidate and should be given due weight in the article. Rotidiap (talk) 17:04, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Kwankwaso does not receive the level of coverage that the major candidates do thus it is not equitable to put him on the same level as the major candidates. Talks for an alliance do not make him a major contender, not to mention the fact that those talks failed months ago. Watercheetah99 (talk) 20:43, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I have added more sources below from various publications. Rotidiap (talk) 00:41, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

You have to be joking, how can you even try to claim that these sources make Kwankwaso a major candidate? This is a Kwankwaso campaigner saying he will win, this is just a speech by Kwankwaso, this is just a profile of Kwankwaso, this is interview and touches on the potential strength of a Obi/Kwankwaso ticket which didn't happen, this is a bus crash, this is a meeting, this is a tweet that mentions every single nominee, this is mostly an interview with the NNPP chairman, and this is literally a NNPP press release. The vast majority of your "sources" either have clear conflicts of interest (direct statements by Kwankwaso or his party members) or do not back up your claim (like the Jonathan tweet or bus crash). Searching the name "Kwankwaso" and submitting every article that comes up does not prove something. Watercheetah99 (talk) 04:55, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Main page: Talk:2023 Nigerian presidential election

• Sources
  • Pro-major Candidate Sources
    • Premium Times – April 2022 (Article asking if Kwankwaso could become a major contender)
    • Leadership – July 2022 (Article on the race that describes Atiku, Obi, Kwankwaso, and Tinubu as the "four prominent contenders")
    • ICIR – July 2022 (Article on campaign strategy that mentions Atiku, Obi, Kwankwaso, and Tinubu)
    • Peoples Gazette — July 2022 (Op-Ed on the race that that mentions Atiku, Obi, Kwankwaso, and Tinubu; however, this author says "it is difficult to project Kwankwaso being a viable contender for first place" in a later piece)
    • Independent August 2022 (Kwankwaso campaigner says Kwankwaso will win)
      • Contest: COI
    • The Cable August 2022 (Article on a conference that mentions Atiku, Obi, Kwankwaso, and Tinubu)
    • Vanguard August 2022 (Kwankwaso gives a speech)
      • Contest: COI and irrelevant
    • Business Day August 2022 (Op-Ed on the race that describes Obi, Kwankwaso, and Tinubu as "major participants")
    • BBC Pidgin June 2022 (Profile on Kwankwaso)
      • Contest: Irrelevant
    • Guardian August 2022 (Article on a bus crash at a Kwankwaso event)
      • Contest: Irrelevant
    • Premium Times August 2022 (Article on Kwankwaso campaign appointments)
      • Contest: Irrelevant
    • Punch August 2022 (Article on Kwankwaso meeting with a bishop)
      • Contest: Irrelevant
    • Daily Post June 2022 (Article on a tweet from former President Goodluck Jonathan, which congratulates 7 different parties' nominees)
      • Contest: Irrelevant
    • Daily Trust August 2022 (An NNPP press release on debates)
      • Contest: COI and irrelevant
    • The Nation June 2022 (Article asking if the NNPP could become a major player but mainly an interview with the NNPP chairman)
      • Contest: Irrelevant
    • News Agency of Nigeria (NAN) July 2022 (Another profile on Kwankwaso)
      • Contest: Irrelevant

• • Anti-major candidate sources
    • Vanguard — June 2022 (1) (Article stating "a three-horse race is looming in 2023 among Alhaji Atiku Abubakar of the PDP; Mr. Peter Obi of the Labour Party, LP; and Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu of the ruling APC")
    • Vanguard — June 2022 (2) (Article on the search for running mates that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • The Nation — June 2022 (Article on security policy that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • Channels — June 2022 (Another article on the search for running mates that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • The Sun — June 2022 (Another article stating Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu are in a "three-horse race.")
    • FP — July 2022 (Article on prominent candidates that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • DW — July 2022 (Another article on prominent candidates that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • Nairametrics — July 2022 (Op-Ed on the race that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • Nairametrics — August 2022 (Op-Ed on the campaign promises that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • Premium Times — August 2022 (1) (Article on an interview from a Tinubu surrogate, the piece describes Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu as "the three front-runners")
    • Premium Times — August 2022 (2) (Analysis on voter registration that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • Peoples Gazette — August 2022 (1) (Analysis on the major candidates that only mentions Atiku, Obi, and Tinubu)
    • Peoples Gazette — August 2022 (2) (Op-Ed that says "it is difficult to project Kwankwaso being a viable contender for first place")

Name change, August 2022

This article's original name was "2023 Nigerian general election" but it was changed to "2023 Nigerian elections" due to the addition of elections not on a single election day. After several discussions on various talk pages that went nowhere, requesting comment seemed pertinent. The dispute is between one side (me) who supports a move as the current title indicates that there is one central election on one day; however, there are dozens of different elections in Nigeria throughout 2023 (from February to at least November) making this page comparable to the 2020 United States elections page. The other side (Number 57 (talk · contribs)) argues for the page to be split into two separate articles. Watercheetah99 (talk) 21:44, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• To correct the false claim above, the two RMs did not receive no responses. Both received responses and ended in no consensus outcomes. The false claim is on top of an attempt earlier to get the page moved by falsely claiming it was a non-controversial move at WP:RM/T, The forum shopping and behavioural issues around this are getting increasingly concerning. Number 57 22:07, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
  • You know exactly what I am referring to by "no response" that you ghosted discussion when asked basic questions. Now "behavioural issues," what is wrong with you; why can't you just have a normal discussion like everyone else? Watercheetah99 (talk) 22:22, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: recent previous discussion at WT:WikiProject Politics#2023 Nigerian general election. ––FormalDude talk 04:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Survey

• Support — I requested this move as the current title indicates that there is one central election on one day (like 2018 Pakistani and 2019 British election pages); however, there are dozens of different elections in Nigeria throughout 2023 (from February to at least November) making this page more comparable to the 2020 United States elections (especially as they are both presidential systems with a large number of disparate elections throughout the year). Also, as the component elections in this page already have unique pages, it is no longer like the 2019 page where there was no separate election page. In accordance with other like pages, such as the 2022 Nigerian elections, 2023 Nigerian elections is more accurate. When a user first moved the page to its current name, it was clear that the user was not at all familiar with the content; when I requested it be moved back to its stable "2023 Nigerian elections", a different opponent pivoted to a content discussion before refusing to engage so the discussion was closed. This cycle of ghosting discussion continued nine more times over months to avoid justifying the move. As no one has actually contested the name change in months (instead briefly focusing on the content discussion before ghosting again and again), this request should be uncontroversial and should be separated from the page split discussion. Watercheetah99 (talk) 05:01, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose IMO the article should remain at the current title and the content added related to other elections during the year moved to a new 2023 Nigerian elections article. Number 57 11:49, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
  • This is an argument for a name change, not against the page move; I have set up a different RFC for the name change so go put this there please. Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

  Strongly oppose. WP:STICK. Panam2014 (talk) 19:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

  Strongly oppose what? This is indented like you're opposing the split idea (which has now moved to a lower thread), but maybe you're opposing the rename.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:CONCISE and to better match the article content, which includes more elections than "the" general election. The fact that two previous RMs failed to come to a consensus and we now have a countervailing split proposal is a good reason to have a third RM to see if consensus can be reached. PS: In reviewing previous RMs, I see an argument that "year Place elections" articles are DABCONCEPT or DAB pages, but this is only sometimes the case. There is no policy or procedural reason to not use such a title when it properly addresses the actual content.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:57, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

  Officially, the election is called general. Panam2014 (talk) 16:10, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

  Which one? Because this article is talking about two separate elections. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 22:45, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

• I was summoned here by the bot, but cannot make head or tail of this discussion. Watercheetah99, if you are soliciting outside opinion with an RfC, you need to provide a concise and neutral statement of the proposal with it. I've hidden the RfC template, so the bot does not summon more people here to be confused; please unhide it when you have added a statement. Vanamonde (Talk) 13:47, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Furthermore, if there are two separate questions, they should probably each have their own RfC. ––FormalDude talk 02:54, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

    I would support this, I've long attempted to separate these two distinct questions. Watercheetah99 (talk) 05:43, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

    I am creating a new discussion on the page split and will move that discussion's points to that section. Watercheetah99 (talk) 21:32, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

• Comment – An overhaul of all these Nigerian election pages is required. Some of them are named Nigerian general election, while others are named Nigerian presidential election. GoodDay (talk) 03:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

  Yes. These should be WP:CONSISTENT to the extent practicable.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:47, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

  I agree that the series of pages is a mess and one of the projects I've had down for a few months is to link those up but currently I'm pretty swamped personally and focused more on the upcoming elections in 2023. I believe that due to the difficulties in finding data for past elections and the proximity of the next elections, standardizing names can take a backseat for a bit. Someone else could do it too, we could put "[ENTER YEAR] Nigerian elections" in the requested articles of WikiProject Nigeria. Watercheetah99 (talk) 01:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 13 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no move UtherSRG (talk) 23:03, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

---

2023 Nigerian general election → 2023 Nigerian elections – I requested this move as the current title indicates that there is one central election on one day (like 2018 Pakistani and 2019 British election pages); however, there are dozens of different elections in Nigeria throughout 2023 (from February to at least November) making this page more comparable to the 2020 United States elections (especially as they are both presidential systems with a large number of disparate elections throughout the year). Also, as the component elections in this page already have unique pages, it is no longer like the 2019 page where there was no separate election page. In accordance with other like pages, such as the 2022 Nigerian elections, 2023 Nigerian elections is more accurate. When a user first moved the page to its current name, it was clear that the user was not at all familiar with the content; when I requested it be moved back to its stable "2023 Nigerian elections", a different opponent pivoted to a content discussion before refusing to engage so the discussion was closed. This cycle of ghosting discussion continued nine more times over months to avoid justifying the move. After a RFC, it was suggested to open a new move request. Watercheetah99 (talk) 00:38, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per my comments on the 19 April 2022 and 1 June 2022 RMs above. I also suggest this is withdrawn as there is already an RfC on the name open above and that some kind of moratorium is placed on this to stop it being requested again and again in different ways. Number 57 11:19, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

  It was suggested in the RFC to open a new move discussion. Your page split idea has been opposed above, either argue it or finally drop this, you clearly have no care or knowledge of the page and simply want to be correct. Watercheetah99 (talk) 14:49, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:20, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
• Comment There appears to have been some selective canvassing by Watercheetah, who has invited several editors involved in previous discussions, but not included the one (Panam2014) who has consistently opposed their proposals.[1][2][3][4] Number 57 12:08, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

  You can invite them if you want, I didn't bother because they still haven't read the page or ascertained what the discussion is about. Their "oppositions" have constantly (but apparently unwittingly) backed up my point for months. Watercheetah99 (talk) 12:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose, I agree with Number 57's arguments entirely. —Nightstallion 14:05, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

  The split proposal would be entirely redundant. Splitting the page would require copying half of the content (2/4 elections: the Pres and NASS elections) and pasting it into a new page called 2023 Nigerian general election. There is just no need for it, the broad overview of that content is covered here on a page that should be called 2023 Nigerian elections while the in-depth details are on the pres and NASS individual pages. If the "general election" page is a broad overview then everything there would be in the Pres and NASS sections of the "elections" page while if the "general election" page is detailed then everything there would be on the Pres and NASS individual pages. To run through some examples of redundancies for potential "general election" content: the presidential candidates will be on the "elections" page (if something as basic as the candidates isn't on the "elections" page, it serves no purpose), opinion polls will be on the individual pages (what poll will cover all three February elections? if polls are released, they will likely be on just the presidential race and such would just be on that page), and the results tables will be on the individual pages (the "elections" pages will have results in the infobox while the full tables would definitely be in the individual pages). To address other examples: debates will go on individual pages (there aren't joint debates, no need to put them on a "general election" page), a broad intro summary will go on the "elections" page (any "general election" page intro summary would just be the "elections" page intro summary without a sentence or two), issues will be on individual pages (each election has different issues), primaries will go on individual pages (each election has its own primaries), and background will go on individual pages (each election has a background section based on the constituency and local context). Nothing brought forward will not be on a different page, thus it would be redundant. Watercheetah99 (talk) 15:23, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

  I don't see a problem with duplicating content if it is warranted, which in this case it is IMHO. It still remains a fact that the general election is a distinct event and clearly denoted subset of the elections taking place in Nigeria that year, with media mentions and news specific to it. I stand by my point. —Nightstallion 06:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

  1. Some overlap can be justified but an entirely copy-and-pasted page would be bizarre, the redundancies would just render the other page unnecessary. Perhaps a compromise would be to make a redirect from "2023 Nigerian general election" to the federal elections section on this page.

  2. It is not definite that "the general election is a distinct event and clearly denoted subset of the elections taking place in Nigeria," INEC itself is inconsistent with how general election is used. Just the two days ago, the commission released a document outlining the "2023 General Elections Timetable" that includes gubernatorial and HOA elections. Similarly, there are several statements (1, 2, 3) that make it clear that INEC use "general election" in different ways, but often as a way to refer to the "secondary" elections as opposed to the primaries. Either way, it is definitely not a "clearly denoted subset" if INEC and news agencies do not use it solely for those three elections. Watercheetah99 (talk) 14:26, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment (received invitation at my talk page) To start with, the election for the national positions conceivably could be called "election" (singular) even if it goes two rounds. But this article also has the governor elections which are not national and also on different dates. So there's not way that entire scope could be called "election" (singular) So right now there is a conflict between the title and the scope of the article. Suggest that this conflict be fixed, one way of the other. One fix would be removal of the governor material, the other would the rename in the RFC. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:01, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

  Yes, this is the core issue. The removal of the gubernatorial and local elections would serve little purpose as those election would need to go somewhere and a new page would be redundant; finally returning the name to "2023 Nigerian elections" would finally solve this issue. Even if opponents want to split the page, I think they should open a split discussion instead of continuously stalling the rename as the current name does not fit the page's content. Watercheetah99 (talk) 20:48, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

  • Strongly oppose WP:POINT

  Panam2014 (talk) 01:45, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  You are yet again arguing in my favor. Your side has held this page with the incorrect title for months to make a point on the unrelated issue of splitting the page. Watercheetah99 (talk) 15:31, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  Stop requesting a name change every week. See WP:STICK. Panam2014 (talk) 18:07, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  Finally bother to read the page for once, please. Watercheetah99 (talk) 18:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  Please accept contributor's decision. Panam2014 (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  I see no reason that everyone else should just let you and Number 57 have your way when neither of you believe the current page title fits the page yet prevent a page move Watercheetah99 (talk) 20:49, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  Opening a new RFM every week is a WP:POINT. Panam2014 (talk) 23:24, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  You don't know what that means, just like you don't know what's on this page. It is exhausting to have you continue to argue just for the sake of being right - that is WP:POINT; your side has held this page on the incorrect title for months to make a point on the unrelated issue of splitting the page. State your issues with the name change for once and actually discuss in good faith. Watercheetah99 (talk) 23:47, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  Per sources, the election is called general election. We must delete content about other elections.

  Stop now. Panam2014 (talk) 14:47, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

  Again, you prove that you have read nothing. That is not the question, it's not about what sources call it and never has been because the page is an overview of all of the elections over the year. If you ever bothered to read any of this, you would know that by now. Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

  You have unable to undestood other's comments. Panam2014 (talk) 20:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

  You don't even know what elections these are and now you're lecturing on what others understand? Watercheetah99 (talk) 17:24, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  False. Stop Wikipedia:Disruptive editing. Panam2014 (talk) 23:32, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  You just throw out these allegations of wrongdoing with a random negative practice without even bothering to read about what that practice is. You cannot name the sources you speak of nor establish their relevance to the discussion. You fail to speak truthfully about the content of publicly accessible pages. You continue to argue in my favor unwittingly. What do you even want? Watercheetah99 (talk) 00:38, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

  WP:STICK Panam2014 (talk) 02:01, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Page split dispute, August 2022

The dispute is between one side (Number 57 (talk · contribs)) who wants the article split in to a "2023 Nigerian general election" page and a "2023 Nigerian elections" page. The other side (me) argues against a page split on grounds that a split would be entirely redundant as the contents of a new page would be extensively covered by other pages. Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose — An editor has suggested creating a new page called "2023 Nigerian general election" alongside the change of the current "general election" page to "2023 Nigerian elections." I have been against this split proposal because it would be entirely redundant. Splitting the page would require copying half of the content (2/4 elections: the Pres and NASS elections) and pasting it into a new page called 2023 Nigerian general election. There is just no need for it, the broad overview of that content is covered here on a page that should be called 2023 Nigerian elections while the in-depth details are on the pres and NASS individual pages. If the "general election" page is a broad overview then everything there would be in the Pres and NASS sections of the "elections" page while if the "general election" page is detailed then everything there would be on the Pres and NASS individual pages. Not to come across as gatekeeping, but I have been adding Nigerian election pages for months and I assure you that there would be no point to a new page; I only mention this because the proponents of this change have shown a remarkable lack of knowledge about this page: not knowing that there is a presidential election in 2023, continuously making comparisons to unalike pages, and directly lying about the content of this page and others. To run through some examples of redundancies for potential "general election" content: the presidential candidates will be on the "elections" page (if something as basic as the candidates isn't on the "elections" page, it serves no purpose), opinion polls will be on the individual pages (what poll will cover all three February elections? if polls are released, they will likely be on just the presidential race and such would just be on that page), and the results tables will be on the individual pages (the "elections" pages will have results in the infobox while the full tables would definitely be in the individual pages). To address other examples: debates will go on individual pages (there aren't joint debates, no need to put them on a "general election" page), a broad intro summary will go on the "elections" page (any "general election" page intro summary would just be the "elections" page intro summary without a sentence or two), issues will be on individual pages (each election has different issues), primaries will go on individual pages (each election has its own primaries), and background will go on individual pages (each election has a background section based on the constituency and local context). Nothing brought forward will not be on a different page, thus it would be redundant. Watercheetah99 (talk) 05:01, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
• Support As per my comments above, all the information on the sub-national elections not on the same day as the national general election should be split to a new 2023 Nigerian elections article. Number 57 11:49, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
  • As has been repeatedly explained to Number 57, that would lead to a completely redundant article as there is nothing on that page that would not already be covered by other pages. Watercheetah99 (talk) 16:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose splitting. We do not need redundant articles. If the current article would be better titled more generically as "2023 Nigerian elections", then propose that in a WP:RM process, not an RfC. (See thread above this one.)  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:43, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose I don't have a wikihour for a full analysis of this but it looks redundant, and nobody has even given a reason for it in the RFC. If someone wants to pursue the idea they should make a succinct argument for it in the RFC for participants to read. Saying just "per my comments above" really doesn't do that. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:12, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
• Comment The 1979, 1983, 1993, 2003, 2011 pages, are called "presidential elections", while the 2007, 2015 & 2019 pages, are called "general elections". 2023 has both a presidential & general election page. Something wrong here, folks. GoodDay (talk) 21:12, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per the sources. --Dashboard breaker (talk) 18:47, 12 September 2022 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE – Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

  What sources back splitting the page? Watercheetah99 (talk) 18:23, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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Proposed split

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Split has already occurred since it was proposed at WP:Proposed article splits, whose backlog I am working through. My apologies for the confusion! Felix QW (talk) 18:12, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

---

Please discuss below whether this page should be split into 2023 Nigerian general election and 2023 Nigerian elections. @Number 57, Watercheetah99, Panam2014, SMcCandlish, and Nightstallion: Pinging participants of earlier move discussions. Felix QW (talk) 20:21, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Don't you mean renaming this page into "2023 Nigerian elections"? This is already a page listing basic info and linking to specific pages. I don't see what would be the point of having two pages doing exactly the same thing. --Aréat (talk) 05:04, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I'm not sure what is going on already. The page has already been split. Number 57 09:54, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.