Talk:611th Air Operations Center

Lineage prior to 1994

The current AFHRA factsheet for the 611th AOC does not indicate a lineage prior to 1 June 1994, whereas the article in its current form claims that it continues the lineage of the 11th Air Control Wing, seemingly without reference. – Recoil (talk) 12:00, 7 September 2022 (UTC) Lineagegeek

I agree. The 11th Air Control Wing (originally 531st Aircraft Control & Warning Group) inactivated on 1 July 1994 and disbanded (unfortunately) on 8 September 1994, apparently because of a number conflict with 11th Wing. Lineagegeek (talk) 21:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

So do you think it would be appropriate to split one of the two out of this article into a separate one? – Recoil (talk) 22:05, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I certainly think so. The current title of this article is appropriate for the currently serving 611 AOC; now on my to-do list is to create probably an article for the 11th Tactical Control Group, splitting out of this article, as the 11 ACW title was very short-lived. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:04, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Even though it was short-lived, wouldn't the article belong at 11th Air Control Wing per WP:MILMOS#UNITNAME, as it was its last "official" designation? – Recoil (talk) 10:57, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

The unit spent 18 months as the 11th Air Control Wing and another two years as the 11th Tactical Control Wing (3 1/2 years as 11th Wing); 7 1/2 years as the 11th Tactical Control Group and 7 1/2 years (3 activations) as the 531st Aircraft Control & Warning Group. I doubt time active justifies the exception to the "last name" rule, and I am unaware of any significant accomplishments that would make the 11th Tactical Control Group a case where "the subject is clearly more commonly known by one of the previous names." (emphasis added) --Lineagegeek (talk) 14:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Looking at this 176th Air Defense Squadron site [1], it appears the 11th Tactical Control Group might not even share lineage with the 11th Tactical Control Wing: "In 1989, the 744 ACWS was aligned under the newly established 11th Tactical Control Wing (11 TCW). In 1992, this wing was renamed the 11th Air Control Wing (11 ACW), and the 744 ACWS was renamed the 744th Air Defense Squadron (744 ADS)." (emphasis mine) Certainly something to look into when creating the new article. – Recoil (talk) 16:58, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Ah, no. It just shows that whoever drafted the copy for that particular webpage didn't fully understand the way USAF lineage rules worked. The lineage descent from the 531 AC&WG to the 11 ACW is clear and unambiguous. The number of sloppy errors I have encountered on British Commonwealth and U.S. military websites sometimes is unfortunately large - review if you want my few most recent fixes to the first paragraphs of Navy Command (Royal Navy). Buckshot06 (talk) 18:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, looking at the source [2] currently in the article, you are right. Consider my concern above null and void. – Recoil (talk) 18:22, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Lineagegeek Buckshot06 I have performed the split to 11th Air Control Wing. Hope everything is in order now. – Recoil (talk) 10:38, 28 September 2022 (UTC)