Talk:A Flood in Baath Country
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Possible copyright problem
editThis article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:25, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Did you know nomination
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- ... that a Syrian filmmaker repurposed footage from his first film in his last film in order to criticize his younger self?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Panhandle Gap and Template:Did you know nominations/History of education in Wales (1870–1939)
꧁Zanahary꧂ 07:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC).
- I'm not sure how this hook squares up against the rules to avoid hooks solely based on the content of works, but regardless of that, I am not sure how it's interesting or relevant that, basically, the filmmaker changed his mind about something... (t · c) buidhe 23:35, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- That rule is:
If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact.
This is a real-world fact about a nonfiction work. As for the fact, I think it's definitely unusual and remarkable for a filmmaker to make a film criticizing his own work. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Doing... ミラP@Miraclepine 18:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
- That rule is:
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - Earwig says that phrases like "advent of the dam" and "through the lens of salvage ethnography" and "with an eighteenth-century BCE limestone statue of the goddess Ishtar excavated from the" are identical to what's in the abstract of ref 2, so they could be changed to avoid close paraphrasing unless it can't be avoided. "Naive early enthusiasm" is similar to "earlier naive enthusiasm" in ref 4, so "Naive early" or just "early" could be changed to "initial" if possible. Otherwise the whole thing's good.
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Nominated on creation day and sized at 2360 B. Can't access refs 2 and 3 to verify anything so will AGF. @Zanahary: I have to agree with you this hook is interesting based on your explanation, but fix the paraphrasing issue and you're good to go. Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam, which is linked in the hook, is a stub sized at 233 B, so if you want to expand it and make it a second bold, feel free to do so and ping me if you're done; I can even hold the nom for you for the time being. ミラP@Miraclepine 19:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review Miraclepine! I’ll fix the paraphrasing. I can also try to expand A Flood in Ba’ath Country. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: I've found the fix satisfactory. I'll approve Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam, but ping me once A Flood in Baath Country is sufficiently expanded. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Miraclepine: I've done it! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: Thank you. I'm busy with school right now and with other things, but I'll review this tonight or tomorrow. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:50, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
@Zanahary: Since your hook now has two bolded articles, please do a second QPQ. ミラP@Miraclepine 16:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Miraclepine: Done! here. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 17:41, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: Thank you, I'll start reviewing the article now. And for the record: I'm putting it to where the first QPQ is listed for convenience. ミラP@Miraclepine 17:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - See below.
- Neutral: - Ref 21 says that the report of the cancellation (but not what the report led to) was a rumor; fix Jeune Afrique sentence to say that, and also to for due weight to note that the JCC organizers affirmed their anti-censorship guarantee at the time. I think the "strongly" in "strongly criticizes" is MOS:EDITORIALizing? Otherwise it's all good.
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - See below.
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: @Zanahary: Yeah, this article has serious problems with close paraphrasing which need to be fixed, as well as some issues with WP:V.
Extended content
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Regarding WP:V issues:
Now, this is the full list of CLOP issues:
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Oh, and this was expanded from 233 B to 9718 B within a few days of being bolded. ミラP@Miraclepine 05:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: Please address the above. @Miraclepine: This is a very long review. Can any of this information be moved to a different location (the article's talk page perhaps?) or summarised? Z1720 (talk) 15:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Z1720: I'm not sure. I understand it's long, but all this info is still relevant to the DYK, and moving it outside this page might cause all the discussion to be decentralized. Further, I think all the necessary details should be present, and of course there's a lot of them given there were noticeable copyright issues in the page. Would it be best to collapse all this?
- Oh, and while I was writing this reply, I noticed a lot of work's being done on this article. I'll take a look at it as soon as I can. ミラP@Miraclepine 16:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
Okay, review done at last. @Zanahary:, this is long so I'm collapsing it (and also the other; I'm just using Template:Collapse instead of cot/cob given WP:DYKNOM's severe issues with WP:PEISX):
Extended content
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Now let's see, the Infobox issue is fixed but ref for languages doesn't support that it's Arabic (unlike this one; doclisboa says it's 47 mins, but that ref and the cinemas-asie one say 46 mins); the issue with the film pirates, Jordan, and the nephew of the village chief was fixed; and the festival's anti-censorship guarantee but everything else for V and NPOV are still not fixed.
Now re CLOP, noting that irrelevant/redundant content is a sign of close paraphrasing:
For new additions, everything else is fine but:
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BTW wish I had brought this up last time, but consider the refbombing cleanup optional. @Zanahary: these issues need to be fixed, or this nomination won't get to the main page, and I highly recommend making as many issue fixes at once instead of through numerous so I can track these changes quicker and faster. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- All edits done, except:
- I did not change "guarantee against censorship" to "commitment to anti-censorship", since the latter implies an ideological alignment to the combating of censorship while the former merely means that the festival promised not to censor anything. I don't think these three words form a copyright issue.
- I read no ambiguity in the source about the dedication's attachment to the broadcast. From the source:
Amiralay said that one of the Arab satellite networks had bought "A Flood in Baath Country" ... Amiralay said he had asked the network to include a dedication to a friend, ...
"include" here implies that the dedication would be part of the broadcast of the film. - I'm confused by also add "saying that" "different" and "they think this lake". What are you asking for?
- I don't see how saying the Syrian government "directly asked" is a problem. Changing to "attempted to convince" is a departure from the original meaning and a superficial alteration to avoid two words matching with the source. I think these words are fine and not a copyright problem.
- I changed the restraining order Haaretz text to just say "order prohibiting Amiralay from leaving Syria had been removed"
- "Travel abroad to work on a film in Jordan" is redundant. This, again, is too small to be a copyvio.
- Can you specifically name the ref you want removed from "which aired in Syria"? And why?
- Removal of the car bomb detail—how is that CLOP?—would strip the implicit accusation of assassination of its context. If I said "his death", the reader would not know if he was blown up, disappeared, killed himself, etc., and I obviously cannot say "his assassination".
- 3 and 7 are fixed and 8 is unchanged—I don't know what these numbers refer to, as your notes are just bullets.
- For your previous notes: there is no source explaining the discrepancy between variants on Fifteen reasons. It was a working title. Before that, it was twelve reasons. I don't think this needs a footnote, but feel free to add one if you disagree. Ref 19 is literally redundant to 24. I think these ref numbers have changed, and I don't know what sources they refer to. I don't see a reason not to have both Le Matin and Le Nouvel Obs for the prize claim. Two sources for a claim is pretty standard and not in the territory of WP:CITEKILL. The Farouk Mardam Bey thing is another example of an apparent disagreement between you and I on close paraphrasing and WP:LIMITED—I don't see a reason to alter the natural wording into something superficially more distant from the source's obvious verbiage. I've trimmed the Baathist textbook, but I think what is there should stay; it's very interesting and exemplifies the school section of the film quite well. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: I'm currently busy with schoolwork and can't do the whole thing at once right now (also including changes you've made since then), but I'll try to catch up between Tuesday and Friday (worst case scenario the latter date). For now:
- Re 2: Okay, seems I overlooked this. Feel free to write it that way.
- Re 3: Ooh, sorry. I meant you would add "saying that"
- Re 9: These are what the bullets would be if the extended detail reviews used numbers.
- I'd like to note that the principle of WP:LIMITED, which I've used in DYK before, is that it applies unless there is a different plausible way to say it; in these cases I found them here and there, hence my request to make the changes.
- Hope this clears things up. ミラP@Miraclepine 17:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: Just looked at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know/Archive_202#c-RoySmith-20241101020900-Crisco_1492_mobile-20241101015300, so I've done a few fixes outside the ones you've objected to. I'll finish the rest of the review once I come home or tomorrow. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: Since I'm home, where were we?
- Re 1: I felt "committed" and "guarantee" have the same meaning in indicating promise, but then your reply gave me an idea: something in the lines of "kept its promise against censorship"?
- Re 4: How about "directly asked the Tunisian government to prevent" -> "directly requested that the Tunisian government prevent"? "directly asked" seems redundant, and I'm sure one will get the idea about whom they requested it to if "directly" is used before "requested".
- Re 5: I'll approve that.
- Re 6: Following on the principle on WP:LIMITED: just use "travel to Jordan to work on a film"
- Re 7: The Haaretz ref, marked with ref name ":13". The Asharq Al-Aswat ref, which the Haaretz ref is next to, already says the whole thing.
- Re 8: Okay, you make a point about relevance. we'll compromise. Per the principle of WP:LIMITED, how about "before his death by" -> "before being fatally injured by"
- Re 10 is somewhat long, so I'll reply:
- Yeah, assuming the secondary sources got the name mixed up, I'm going with Mohamad al-Roumi.
- That's because sources were added thus increasing the ref numbers; about the refs in question, both Variety articles from Ali Jaafar, I've read the Gale ref thru WP:LIBRARY and it's technically the same thing as the weblink Variety, so I've replaced it with the same. (For the record, I referenced Special:Permalink/1256099108 in the first review.)
- Keep the prize claim refs per your point in WP:CITEKILL.
- The ref still verifies everything the Farouk Mardam Bey proposal says.
- The textbook quote and "The restriction on Amiralay's travel" thing will stay your way
- For content added since then: "the script Amiralay had sent him was entitled" = "The script he sent me was titled", so I've changed to "the script he received from Amiralay was named"; I've also copyedited the other for sentence structure.
- Continuing from the first extended review: In the first paragraph of the Content section, I prefer "remorse" over mistake and distress; change "at a Syrian airport" to "at the Jordan–Syria border" per [1]; and my point on "aired in Syria" -> "was also seen by Syrian viewers" still stands.
- Hope this help. ミラP@Miraclepine 05:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Zanahary: Just looked at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know/Archive_202#c-RoySmith-20241101020900-Crisco_1492_mobile-20241101015300, so I've done a few fixes outside the ones you've objected to. I'll finish the rest of the review once I come home or tomorrow. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
Sources
edithttps://www.aljazeera.net/programs/thearabiclens/2006/4/10/%d8%b9%d9%85%d8%b1-%d8%a3%d9%85%d9%8a%d8%b1%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%8a-%d8%a3%d9%81%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%85-%d8%aa%d8%b3%d8%ac%d9%8a%d9%84%d9%8a%d8%a9-%d8%a3%d8%b4%d8%a8%d9%87 ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)