Talk:A Flood in Baath Country

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Did you know nomination

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• ... that a Syrian filmmaker repurposed footage from his first film in his last film in order to criticize his younger self?

• Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvz9383k.15

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Panhandle Gap and Template:Did you know nominations/History of education in Wales (1870–1939)

Created by Zanahary (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 13 past nominations.

꧁Zanahary꧂ 07:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC).

• I'm not sure how this hook squares up against the rules to avoid hooks solely based on the content of works, but regardless of that, I am not sure how it's interesting or relevant that, basically, the filmmaker changed his mind about something... (t · c) buidhe 23:35, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

• That rule is: If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact. This is a real-world fact about a nonfiction work. As for the fact, I think it's definitely unusual and remarkable for a filmmaker to make a film criticizing his own work. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

•  Doing... ミラP@Miraclepine 18:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - Earwig says that phrases like "advent of the dam" and "through the lens of salvage ethnography" and "with an eighteenth-century BCE limestone statue of the goddess Ishtar excavated from the" are identical to what's in the abstract of ref 2, so they could be changed to avoid close paraphrasing unless it can't be avoided. "Naive early enthusiasm" is similar to "earlier naive enthusiasm" in ref 4, so "Naive early" or just "early" could be changed to "initial" if possible. Otherwise the whole thing's good.

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Nominated on creation day and sized at 2360 B. Can't access refs 2 and 3 to verify anything so will AGF. @Zanahary: I have to agree with you this hook is interesting based on your explanation, but fix the paraphrasing issue and you're good to go. Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam, which is linked in the hook, is a stub sized at 233 B, so if you want to expand it and make it a second bold, feel free to do so and ping me if you're done; I can even hold the nom for you for the time being. ミラP@Miraclepine 19:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the review Miraclepine! I’ll fix the paraphrasing. I can also try to expand A Flood in Ba’ath Country. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zanahary: I've found the fix satisfactory. I'll approve Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam, but ping me once A Flood in Baath Country is sufficiently expanded. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Miraclepine: I've done it! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zanahary: Thank you. I'm busy with school right now and with other things, but I'll review this tonight or tomorrow. ミラP@Miraclepine 20:50, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zanahary: Since your hook now has two bolded articles, please do a second QPQ. ミラP@Miraclepine 16:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Miraclepine: Done! here. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 17:41, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zanahary: Thank you, I'll start reviewing the article now. And for the record: I'm putting it to where the first QPQ is listed for convenience. ミラP@Miraclepine 17:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - See below.
• Neutral: - Ref 21 says that the report of the cancellation (but not what the report led to) was a rumor; fix Jeune Afrique sentence to say that, and also to for due weight to note that the JCC organizers affirmed their anti-censorship guarantee at the time. I think the "strongly" in "strongly criticizes" is MOS:EDITORIALizing? Otherwise it's all good.
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - See below.

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Zanahary: Yeah, this article has serious problems with close paraphrasing which need to be fixed, as well as some issues with WP:V.

Regarding WP:V issues:

• About the infobox: need a source for the producers, cinematography, editor, distributor, running-time, country, and languages.
• Ref 1 said "some film pirates" but not "two", fix that. Ref 9 says "mistake" but ref 10 says "distress", fix this to clarify what word to use. Ref 9 says it was named after his family but not him himself. Fix "nephew of a local Ba'ath Party leader" -> "nephew of said village's chief" since the ref says the local Baath Party leader is the nephew, not the chief. Refs 32 and 33 don't say he was going to Beirut (but rather Jordan), that it was an airport he was detained at, or (directly) that the Al Arabiya broadcast was in Syria, just that it was to Syrian viewers, so change "aired in Syria" -> "was also seen by Syrian viewers"
• Ref 12 only says he was a tribal chief but not what tribe and is redundant anyway because ref 14 says he was a leader of the tribe and what tribe it was; relocate ref 12 from that sentence to fix the confusion. Ref 19 is literally redundant to 24. The "won the award for best short film" needs only ref 20. Ref 27 is redundant to 25/26 (and I don't speak Arabic anyway, so I'll AGF since video is not something I can easily translate unlike text)
• I also need clarity on what the working title is: NYT and Reason say Fifteen Reasons Why I Hate the Baath (both caps), but Fifteen Reasons Why I Hate the Baath Party is used by The Douglas Hyde (uncaps) Masress (uncaps) Eclipse of the Sunnis by Deborah Amos (caps) (worst case scenario we use a footnote).

Now, this is the full list of CLOP issues:

• "one of the leaders of Busha’ban tribe admits in the documentary: A Flood in Baath Country directed by Omar Amiralay in 2003 that he sent his tribesmen to Aleppo in the 1970s to help President Hafez al-Assad fight against the Muslim Brotherhood" = "Shaykh Diab al-Mashi, a former leader of the Busha'ban tribe, admits that he'd sent his tribesmen to Damascus in the 1970s to assist in President Hafez al-Assad's fight against the Muslim Brotherhood"
• "As a reward, al-Mashi was granted a permanent seat in the Syrian Parliament. His tribe's villages were also provided with electricity, and many of the men were exempted from compulsory military service" = same as ref 16 "Το reward them for their loyalty, Sheikh Dayyab al-Mashi was granted a permanent seat in Syria's Parliament. Additionally, the villages of his tribe were provided with electricity and many of his tribesmen were exempted from military service (Dukhan, 2019)." I can't access 15 and it's redundant anyway. Also I think it's way too tangential to note in the article.
• Sort the list of filmmakers protesting the festival's decision in alphabetical order to prevent close paraphrasing.
• Change "A Flood in Baath Country was pulled from the lineup of the 2004 Carthage Film Festival in Tunisia" to "the 2004 Carthage Film Festival in Tunisia cancelled a screening of the film". "allegation that the film had been pulled to begin with" should be changed to "news that the screening was cancelled" to carry over paraphrase cleanup. "reported" should be added between "Following" and "political pressure" since the ref says it's apparent. Also, there's a conflict between the Jeune Afrique ref which says the news on the cancellation was a "real-fake "scandal" with a persistent rumor ... [that] turned out to be unfounded" and the Variety/Bidoun refs that together say that the screening was cancelled but put back on the program on the last day; need to sort this out per NPOV.
• "asked the network to include a dedication to a friend" = "asked the network to include in their broadcast a dedication to his friend", so change to "later requested that said network also air a dedication to his friend" (and also since it seems ambiguous if the dedication was directly part of the broadcast)
• "a Lebanese journalist and critic of the Syrian regime who was killed on June 2 by a bomb hidden in his car" = "a Lebanese journalist who'd been critical of the Ba'athist regime before being killed in 2005 by a bomb hidden in his car" -> "a Lebanese journalist who had been critical of the Ba'athist regime before his assassination in 2005"
• "Since Bashar al-Assad had permitted satellite television, this meant the movie would be shown in Syria after all" = "and since Bashar al-Assad had recently permitted satellite broadcasts in Syria, the film would be viewable there after all", so -> "allowing the film to be viewable in Syria since satellite television was legalized by Bashar al-Assad's government"
• "introduced by writer Farouk Mardam Bey and followed by a debate" is lifted straight from the source after being translated into English. Change it to "featuring a debate and an introduction from writer Farouk Mardam Bey" and move it a little earlier between "Baath Country" and "was held in"

As for overquotes: The "I wanted ... of my life" can stay, but the "thing that ... eleven thousand years before Christ" should be rewritten. I don't think we need that Ba'athist textbook quote in full, just a sentence describing what it says.

Oh, and this was expanded from 233 B to 9718 B within a few days of being bolded. ミラP@Miraclepine 05:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Sources

https://www.aljazeera.net/programs/thearabiclens/2006/4/10/%d8%b9%d9%85%d8%b1-%d8%a3%d9%85%d9%8a%d8%b1%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%8a-%d8%a3%d9%81%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%85-%d8%aa%d8%b3%d8%ac%d9%8a%d9%84%d9%8a%d8%a9-%d8%a3%d8%b4%d8%a8%d9%87 ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

https://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1993/12/18/cinema-cinema-syrien-a-l-institut-du-monde-arabe-filmer-malgre-la-censure_3967519_1819218.html ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)