Talk:A Matter of Loaf and Death

American release?

Has a release date for America been revealed yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.117.23 (talk) 22:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

According to Amazon.co.uk "This title will be released on March 30, 2009." Maybe BBC America will show it before then or whoever normally buys it for the US or you could order it... -- Horkana (talk) 22:03, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

The article says it was September 22nd 2009. It must have been delayed. trainfan01 21:25 4 June 2010 —Preceding undated comment added 03:26, 5 June 2010 (UTC).

Former title: Trouble At' Mill

Correct title?

The official W&G website states "A Matter of Loaf or Death": Now in production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.7.133.193 (talk) 01:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Not it's not, it's just a pub used in the news article here: http://www.wallaceandgromit.com/forum/read/590/1 - the pun ‘Toast of the Town’ is also used in that article. The actual title is still Trouble at' Mill --Gaunt (talk) 09:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Why the apostrophe?

Why is there an apostrophe in the title? Could this be mentioned in the article? —Robotech_Master (talk) 03:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

My guess is that it is meant to represent the Northern English accent. ISD (talk) 08:24, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Correct, that is indeed the intention. Gaunt 10:04, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Now we just need to find a reference to prove it. Is there one? ISD (talk) 10:16, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the apostrophe shows missing letters. Standard English title would be "Trouble at the Mill". The word "the" is abbreviated to "t" and then the t is elided away because it follows a word ending in "t", "at". Hence "Trouble at'Mill". -- Derek Ross | Talk 20:45, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Normal way of writing that would be "Trouble at t'Mill" and pronounced that way with a slight gap between the two ts. There are local variants of pronunciation here in t'North, but I've never seen "at'". Peridon (talk) 15:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, don't forget it is set (mostly) in a windmill. Thus the apostophe could mean 'Mill is short for windmill.--TimothyJacobson (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It is an old Lancashire phrase, but I can't remember the origin. JaffaCakeLover (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

O vs A

At least in the Australian version, its Bake-o-light versus Bake-a-light (as appears currently). Not sure about the capitalisation though. I'm assuming this is region free so I'll update the article accordingly. 124.169.0.250 (talk) 12:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The official website has a characters page, where it's called "Bake-O-Lite". Note the capitalization and exact spelling. tedder (talk) 04:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Drat, I knew there was something I forgot, though it seems I remembered to use the correct spelling in my actual edit. That character page makes no mention of "Miss Thripp" as far as I can see and as far as I can see, she's a character from The Curse of the Wererabbit. The actor also appears in the "Starring" panel. Is she actually in this? Not from what I saw...124.169.0.250 (talk) 04:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Piella's Ghost

The article says that at the very end Wallace waves at Piella's ghost. The balloon is shown to not even have a seat as it rises out of the pit. Does anyone else think this is just Wallace hallucinating romantically? (there's a better phrase for that, i'm sure.) He'd be pretty freaked out to see a ghost, surely? JaffaCakeLover (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Trivia section

This article currently contains an extensive list of cultural references, jokes and random details from the film, called 'facts and figures' - but it's clearly a trivia section, which should be avoided. That guideline advises that this kind of information should be incorporated into the article elsewhere if possible, but some of these details (like the comparison with the Doctor Who episode, Voyage of the Damned) are essentially original research and don't seem to belong anywhere. I'm not sure how to handle this - the trivia section as a whole is probably inappropriate and ought to be removed, but our articles on the two most recent Wallace & Gromit films have them as well: see Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit#In jokes and A Close Shave#In-jokes and references. Perhaps the best solution would be to keep the trivia section but provide references for it, if possible. Comments and input on this section would be appreciated. Terraxos (talk) 16:15, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I think the Wallage & Gromit films are rather unique, in that there are so many subtile jokes and analogies to other films, that it is physically impossible to see all of them in one showing, and still follow the plot. I did start this section (based on similar sections in the other films) - even so I had to view the film as saved AVI on the PC and make frequent use of the pause control to be able to see and log the items - of which I found only about half of the current list. Because of the nature of all the items, I felt it was very hard to avoid a list format. Ronhjones (talk) 16:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

It would be a crying shame to lose this section as it contains so much information. I hope that wise heads will rule and that it will remain unadulterated.--Gaunt (talk) 17:42, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict, re-adding this comment). I added the tag marking this as Trivia because this section needs to be kept as short as possible. Since I added the tag the section has nearly doubled but it seems to have been a necessary trade off to get the main Plot section down to a more manageable size. I'm definitely in favour of including all kinds of information but there was a lot of duplication, the plot section contained (and with care it could contain) most of the information found in the references section. Lists are useful but are just not as enjoyable to read as a well written paragraph. I considered removing the trivia tag when I saw the previous shorts also included a similar section but on balance I think it needs to stay for a while to help keep the list short. -- Horkana (talk) 17:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes it's great to see a trivia section, but it does just seem like a long, long list. I've noticed a few references to films/TV programmes, so I'm guessing it is entirely possible to re-write the section into paragraphs such as: "A Matter of Loaf and Death contains numerous in-jokes including references to films, for example..." etc etc. I'm trying to take (an unsuccessful) Christmas wikibreak, but if the trivia tag remains I don't mind trying to re-work it. :) londonsista ^Prod 19:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

"Other" section, rephrase, merge, remove?

Cannot put my finger on it but I'm not satisfied with the section labelled "Other". Firstly the label is so generic as to be unhelpful, that problem could only be more obvious if it were called "Miscellaneous" or "Stuff". I'm not sure if it is commentary or review or opinion or even original research. I don't want to delete it yet (or move possible move it here for further review) as it could potentially be included if it was referenced from a review or external source. Perhaps the points raised could be merged into the article elsewhere? -- Horkana (talk) 17:53, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

If it's to stay then call it something like "Deviations from other Wallace and Gromit Adventures" since we have "Continuity with other Wallace and Gromit Adventures". I agree that "Other" is poor. Ronhjones (talk) 20:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

House Archway

Piella lives at 12a Pastry Rise - shown as part of a metal arch at the boundary. I'm sure I've seen the similar design in some film (anyone know?), and I've just seen similar in Johnathon Creek tonight, where the house is called Metropolis. Ronhjones (talk) 02:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Four o'clock

I'm not happy about the bit in the article where it says Piella instructs Wallace to have the cake at four o'clock. I've seen it twice, and I'm sure Wallace says it'll be grand for four o'clock tea without being instructed or prompted be Piella. I don't have TV with this new re-run thing (I don't have TV of any sort!), so I can't go back to check. Could someone with this facility have another look, and alter if appropriate? Peridon (talk) 15:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

No problem:- (your memory is good) Piella brings in the cake "Here's a cake to celebrate", Wallace "We could have that with our 4 o'clock tea". Later holding Gromit bay the neck - "Pity you'll miss you master's tea party - it will go off with a bang", and shows the big clock at 3:57. Piella never says the time.Ronhjones (talk) 16:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Ta muchly. Do you want to do the honours? I can't think quite how to reword it. Peridon (talk) 16:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Dunnit meself. Peridon (talk) 20:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Voices

Am I right in thinking that this episode of W&G is the one with the least amount of voices (ie just Wallace and Piella). --TimothyJacobson (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Further to my above posting, I notice that "Baker Bob, played by Bob Baker" is mentioned on the main wiki page, but I don't recall hearing him speak. Likewise, on BBC iPLAYER, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00g8hbw/Wallace_and_Gromit_A_Matter_of_Loaf_and_Death/ Geraldine McEwan is listed as doing a voice; again I don't remember hearing her speak --TimothyJacobson (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Baker Bob does speak - very briefly - before landing in his dough. There is a voice credited for Fluffles, who whimpers and giggles. Peridon (talk) 23:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Having just looked at your link, I've no idea who Miss Thripp is. The Fluffles voice was credited on the film when I saw it on TV (not mine - I don't have one!). Peridon (talk) 23:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep. I just watched the first couple of minutes again and Bob does speak. Oviously Grommit never makes a noise, but think you are right for Fluffles, but as Geralding McEwan was Miss Marple I very much doubt that would have been her --TimothyJacobson (talk) 13:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore to the above. According to imdb, Melissa Collier does the voice of Fluffles. (Peter Sallis as Wallace, and Sally Lindsay as Piella - but we knew those). It also says that Sarah Laborde was the Bake O Lite singer. I think my original statement of it being the W&G with the least voices is probably wrong. IMDB also says that Geraldine McEwan did Miss Thripp but was uncreditted http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1118511/fullcredits#cast and that Miss Thripp was in The Curse of The Were-Rabbit http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0117474/ - I still don't remember her being in (or speaking in) Loaf & Death though. --TimothyJacobson (talk) 13:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I think A Grand Day Out only had Wallace speaking. I'm not sure about The Wrong Trousers, but there wouldn't be many there. Peridon (talk) 17:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Just checked on imdb. Wrong Trousers and Close Shave only have Wallace creditted as speaking; Close Shave also has Anne Reid as Gwendoline--TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I've gotta go out now, but could someone please list these voice credits (citing imdb as a source) on the main wiki page please --TimothyJacobson (talk) 13:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I just added them myself (ie Melissa Collier & Sarah Laborde). Not going to add Geraldine McEwan til I'm comfortable she was in it. As I've put them in the info box, I didn't cite imdb --TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

All Removed Trivia "facts and figures"

This is all original research - some of it probably ought to be included, such as the references to Bakelite, and maybe the pun in the title. However, most of it just recites small jokes that may or may not be in the film, and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. I've left these here for future reference.Bob talk 11:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

In-jokes and Cultural references

• The film's title is a pun of A Matter of Life and Death.
• The baker murdered in the opening is Baker Bob, played by Bob Baker. The short is co-written by Bob Baker. This character first appeared in A Close Shave on a sign accompanied by the text "Try Bob's Buns".
• Gromit's washing up liquid is called "Furry Liquid".
• The headline in the Daily Grind newspaper reads "Cereal Killer Strikes Again".
• Wartime-like poster in Bakery - "I'm Baking Bread for Britain".
• Bakery door marked "Keep Clear" is very cluttered.
• Combination car radio/toaster/LP player control buttons spell "MUTT".
• Cake shop shows poster "Hot Cakes" with a "Sold Out" sticker — a play on the expression "selling like hot cakes".
• Van registration is "DOH NUT5".
• The rear door of the van features a sticker marked "Flour to the people".
• Piella's character is a tribute to a 1970s TV advert for low calorie Nimble bread (featuring a girl suspended from a balloon).
• Wallace passes Gromit the steering wheel with the classic phrase "Take the Wheel!" - fortunately there is a spindle for it on the passenger side - a reference to a Tommy Cooper and Eric Sykes sketch.
• Wallace tells Piella that he is 'In Bread', a play on the word inbred.
• Piella and Wallace makes bread on what appears to be a Potter's Wheel in a parody of the film Ghost.
• Following the shot of Wallace touching Piella's hand is a shot of the bread rapidly rising in a heart shape.
• There are references to cheese: A photo of a piece of cheese, a poster with "Fly to Venice with Cheesy Jet" which is a play on words of the airline Easyjet.
• Gromit has a poster entitled Citizen Canine.
• When Gromit sees his stuff in the bin, we can see a Beagle comic, a book called "Pup Fiction", and a "Bagpuss" plush toy.
• Piella's shoes have a "POOCHI" label in them.
• When Fluffles sneaks Gromit's possessions back to him, we can see that one album is called "Puppy Love" by "Doggy Osmond", and a second is by "McFlea".
• Piella lives at 12a Pastry Rise. Many addresses avoid the use of 13 by the use of 12a. 13 is of course a "Bakers Dozen"
• Gromit's reference book is entitled "Electronic Surveillance for Dogs" by "B. A. Lert".
• The shed in which Gromit hides all of the knives and other small possible weapons has a WMD sign on the door.
• Gromit attempts to dispose of a bomb by throwing it out a window but is stopped by baby ducks and then nuns with kittens outside the opposite window, referencing the 1966 film Batman: The Movie.
• After veering away from windows with nuns and ducklings underneath, Gromit comes to a third window featuring a large fence and a a sign saying 'Yorkshire Border, keep out!!' a reference to the long-standing rivalry between Yorkshire and Lancashire. Gromit then attempts to throw the bomb at the border, but is stopped.
• The sequence where the bomb gets stuck in Wallace's trousers is a reference to the famous "don't tell him Pike" Dad's Army episode The Deadly Attachment (1973) where German prisoners put grenades down corporal Jones' trousers.
• Albums in the van include "Poochini", "The Beagles", "The Hound of Music".
• The ending sequence where Piella attempts to seize Wallace by lifting up the floor grating, followed by Fluffles tackling Piella with a forklift is a reference to the ending of Aliens where Ellen Ripley attacks the Alien Queen with a cargo loader.
• The shovel blade after Gromit is hit is a reference to Han Solo frozen in carbonite.
  • I think it's more a reference to Tex Avery or Tom and Jerry... Halmyre (talk) 22:07, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
• Piella advancing on Wallace with a spanner is a reference to Terminator 2: Judgment Day.
• The Forklift scene where Fluffles is pushing Piella to the edge of the house also resembles part of the Doctor Who Christmas Special (Voyage of the Damned). Where the Doctor is a love interest of Astrid Peth, Gromit is similarly the love interest of Fluffles.
• When Wallace attempts to light the "Cake's candle", he briefly utters D'oh, the most used catchphrase of Homer Simpson. The BBC subtitles spell it as, "doh".
• The bakery is called "Top Bun', a pun on the film Top Gun.
• Despite Piella's wealth and luxury, she makes her dog Fluffles sleep in a cardboard box with an old tartan blanket. The cardboard box is actually a Meatabix box, seen in The Wrong Trousers.
• Bake-O-Lite is a pun on bakelite. The Bake-O-Lite balloon commercials were inspired by a 1970s TV campaign for Nimble slimming bread.

Continuity with other Wallace and Gromit Adventures

• When Gromit wakes up from a sleepless night, the rocketship from A Grand Day Out can be seen on the shelf in the background.
• The delivery van that Wallace and Gromit use is the same Austin van used in their film, Wallace & Gromit in the Curse of the Were-Rabbit.
• While Gromit is loading the bread into the van using the forklift, the motorbike with sidecar from A Close Shave is seen in the background.
• While Wallace and Gromit are travelling in their van, the music in the scene is very similar to the music used in the motorbike and sidecar scene in A Close Shave.
• When Wallace and Gromit are trying to save Piella from her runaway bicycle, all three are seen entering the confines of the local zoo. As they do so on the wall can be seen a poster with the word 'Missing' and a picture of a penguin looking exactly like Feathers McGraw from The Wrong Trousers. On the other side of the gate is a ladder inside the wall, and dangling from it outside the wall is a rope made from sheets knotted together.
• Piella's dog Fluffles sleeps in a Meatabix box. Gromit hid in a similar box during the events of The Wrong Trousers where he was spying on Feathers McGraw.
• The end scene of this adventure with Wallace, Gromit and Fluffles driving off into the sunset is similar to the end of The Wrong Trousers where the technotrousers are seen walking off into the sunset.
• The title text for this episode is similar to the one used in Curse of the Were-Rabbit.
• An image of young Wallace and Gromit first witnessed in Curse of the Were-Rabbit, can be seen in the dining room.
• Wallace lights the "candle" with "Duck Matches", in a box resembling Swan Vesta matches. Swan matches were also used in A Grand Day Out to light the fuse of the rocket ship.
• The headline on the back page of the Daily Grind reads "Wigan to meet Preston in Cup tie". Despite the two football clubs being only 20 miles apart, Wigan is the hometown of the duo, while Preston is the name of the dog in A Close Shave.

Other

• This is the darkest of the Wallace and Gromit films so far. Piella has murdered twelve bakers, her pet dog Fluffles shows signs of being abused, and Piella herself dies at the end of the film. Also at the end, Fluffles, depressed, attempts to commit suicide by stepping infront of Wallace's van.
• This Wallace And Gromit film marks the first time that a non-robot character has been murdered (Baker Bob) and killed (Piella Bakewell).

In specific regard to the claim Fluffles tries to commit sucide at the end- Nick Park comments on the DVD commentary that that wasn't how the scene was intended and he didn't even consider it until someone pointed it out after the UK TV premiere.--HellCat86 (talk) 22:44, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I just interpreted it as her being lonely. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Also on the statement about Wigan/Preston the character in A Close Shave reference may have been coincidential as it was likely referring to Nick Park's hometown not the character. trainfan01

The explosive cake seems to parody Diamonds are forever. 180.200.139.251 (talk) 04:12, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Bagpuss

I know that the trivia section has been deleted, but just to note the presence of Bagpuss in the box of returned items was put in as a tribute to Oliver Postgate, though it must have been included before his death [08 Dec 2008] as the short was first shown on 03 Dec 2008:

"In his latest Wallace and Gromit film, A Matter of Loaf and Death, to be screened by the BBC on Christmas Day, Nick Park - who cited Postgate's less famous Pogle's Wood as his greatest influence - has included his own small tribute, with the blessing of Peter Firmin, Postgate's creative partner: Gromit's old Bagpuss doll gets thrown in the bin, but mercifully is later retrieved."

ref = http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/10/postgate-bagpuss-animation-television1 137.222.114.235 (talk) 20:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

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