Talk:Abu Mansur al-Maturidi/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Untitled

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

No one should use the Encyclopedia for Propaganda — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jiraktar~enwiki (talk • contribs) 00:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

English

Latest comment: 15 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Please bring mainstream English sources for his background. If he was from Samarqand during Samanid times, it is most likely he was Soghdian/Persian. Also "Turkic" would be correct and neither an Anatolian Turkish language nor its alphabet existed 1000 years ago or was ever used in Samarkand.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I did find one of your sources:[1], but the authors are fromt the "faculty of medicine" in a Turkish university. My source is Seyyed Hossein Nasr who is from George Washington University and very well known in such topics as history and Islamic scholarship. Actually, without any bias, the top scholar. I think a compromise solution is simply list him as a Muslim scholar.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 21:32, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

You Persians are determined in "infecting" anything you can touch. You are determined in destroying anything related to Turkish civilizaation. You say "Turkic". Not Turkish. So you are bergaining. not Turkish but Turkic is possible. I think after 1000 years of Turkish administration has caused mental demage on any Persian.

Maturidi is Turkish. not Persian or Turkic. Turkic is a pejorative word. It is for insulting Turks. If you were knowledgable in history at least you would know that Turkic is a pejorative world. Maturidi is no way PErsian. HE I TURKISH. Stop vandalizing Turkish related articles.

Cambridge History of Iran and Cambridge Encyclopedia are Persian nationalist crap.

--Polysynaptic (talk) 22:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

hold on! define "turkish civilisation". this term is not defined and will never be defined in any written account of history. i am going to remove the claim as well as your turkish sources saying that he was "turkish". the reason being explained by good people here WP:NONENG. if you object you need to follow along the lines WP:REDFLAG.--Xashaiar (talk) 09:41, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Turkish Civilization is the civilization which is founded and developed by Turkish people. --Polysynaptic (talk) 19:49, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

non-sense. because otherwise there would exist too many civilisations, this is however not accepted among serious people.--Xashaiar (talk) 23:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

this was insane

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I saw the edits stating His nationality was Turkish. I mean come on isn't it insane? First of all Turkey and even Ottoman empire did not exist there, how could he have been a Turkish citizen? Secondly he was born and lived in Samarqand, in what is now Uzbekistan. he could be Persian speaking even he could be of Turkic origins, but no way he cannot have been a Turkish citizen. I do not know if the source said this. If yes I propose that Turkish university fires that professor. I said I do not know, because he might have stated that he was Turkic. the Word Türk is often used in Turkey, bith for Turkish and Turkic. The Turkish far right nationalists then take advantage of that and claim the heritage of all Turkic people. I said again I do not know exactly, whether the source says this, or is this a misinterpretation or misquoting, the fact remains however that it is insane to call him a Turkish citizen.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:45, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Latest comment: 15 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

My first comment above still stands. Please find a specialized and Western academic source for the claim. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 23:56, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Dear Persian and Turk Wikiuser Brothers,First of all I am an objectif neutral person whon only have scientific and history accuracy aim

Ethnicity=mother tongue so Maturidi and Bektashi are Persians not Turks

Even Genetically Maturidi and Bektashi were caucasoid raced,with caucasoid haplotype and not mongoloid raced Turks so Maturidi and Bektashi are Persian

Azeris are linguistically Turkicized Persians and Caucasians

Actual Turks of Anatolia are linguistically Turkicized Greeks,Armenians,Luwians,Lydians,Circassians,Georgians,Laz,Arabs,Assyrians,Pomaks,Bulgarians etc etc

The genetic searches confirm this fact as only 2% of Turkey population have Turkic Haplotypes (O) and even these 2% by mixing for centuries with Anatolians can not be genetically Turk

Also Actual Turkey Culture is somehow a mix of Greek and Persian culture and it has nothing to do with Central Asia Turkic culture

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Any source for Turkish?

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Is there any reliable source that says al-Maturidi was Turkish?
According to this source(~~pointed to by IP~~),^[1] his native language was Persian and he had Persian background. Premitive (talk) 04:47, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Also this source^[2] introduces him as a Persian Theologian.Premitive (talk) 08:56, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Also according to ^[3], he was a native Persian speaker.Premitive (talk) 14:13, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

I have not found any source(s) stating Turkic origin. Any ethnicity needs to be written into the body of the article and not in the lead of the article per MOS:BIO.--Kansas Bear (talk) 16:39, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Sure, I will add it to the body of the article.(if I add it at all)Premitive (talk) 20:49, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

References

^ Rudolph, Ulrich (2014). Al-Māturīdī and the Development of Sunnī Theology in Samarqand. Brill. p. 192. ISBN 978-90-04-26184-6. His mother tongue was certainly Persian, which happened to be undergoing a renaissance during the fourth/tenth century in the Sāmānid kingdom. This is also recognizable from certain lexical idiosyncrasies that are most likely explained on the basis of a Persian background. "Yes" for example, is always balā for al-Māturīdī (e.g., Tawḥīd, 253.21 and 284.-3).
^ Chazelle, Celia; Doubleday, Simon; Lifshitz, Felice; Remensnyder, Amy G. (2012). Why the Middle Ages Matter: Medieval Light on Modern Injustice. Routledge. p. 125. ISBN 9781136636486. Persian theologian al-Maturidi (d. 944)
^ Morrissey, Fitzroy (2021). A Short History of Islamic Thought. Oxford University Press. p. 68. ISBN 978-0197522011. In al-Maturidi's time, the region was under the control of the Samanids (819– 999), an independent Persian dynasty who would play a key role in the introduction of Persian as a literary language into the world of Islam. Al-Maturidi himself was a native Persian speaker who wrote in halting Arabic and seems never to have left his native town.

[1] Rudolph, Ulrich (2014). Al-Māturīdī and the Development of Sunnī Theology in Samarqand. Brill. p. 192. ISBN 978-90-04-26184-6. His mother tongue was certainly Persian, which happened to be undergoing a renaissance during the fourth/tenth century in the Sāmānid kingdom. This is also recognizable from certain lexical idiosyncrasies that are most likely explained on the basis of a Persian background. "Yes" for example, is always balā for al-Māturīdī (e.g., Tawḥīd, 253.21 and 284.-3).

[2] Chazelle, Celia; Doubleday, Simon; Lifshitz, Felice; Remensnyder, Amy G. (2012). Why the Middle Ages Matter: Medieval Light on Modern Injustice. Routledge. p. 125. ISBN 9781136636486. Persian theologian al-Maturidi (d. 944)

[3] Morrissey, Fitzroy (2021). A Short History of Islamic Thought. Oxford University Press. p. 68. ISBN 978-0197522011. In al-Maturidi's time, the region was under the control of the Samanids (819– 999), an independent Persian dynasty who would play a key role in the introduction of Persian as a literary language into the world of Islam. Al-Maturidi himself was a native Persian speaker who wrote in halting Arabic and seems never to have left his native town.

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