Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 11

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AH was a vegetarian

I know this makes some vegetarians gnash their teeth, but it's true. It wasn't because of Geli, either, but likely more because of his fear of cancer and other stuff (he and his sister Paula watched their mother Klara die a particularly painful death from breast cancer when he was 18... they both took care of and spent much time with her during this period, although he became a vegetarian much later).

Sources confirming his vegetarianism abound, here's a helpful summary of them [1].

Bormann even built a greenhouse at Berchtesgaden to ensure a steady supply of fresh veggies to AH, I've seen pictures of Bormann's kids inside, tending it or whatever. Last I heard/read (last year I think), the foundation of the greenhouse was still visible.

Along with being a genocidal sociopath and charismatic German nationalist, AH was also an avid non-smoker. Wyss 00:12, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Hitler was a typical vegetarian, in that he made a big fuss about it, but in reality wasn't a (literal) vegetarian at all. Exceptions were his rule, by all accounts I have read. Sam Spade 02:18, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

With all due respect, I don't think the literature supports either of those assertions. Wyss 02:39, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, w all due respect, I can go on citing examples of people claiming he was vegetarian, or critical of meat consumption, as well as examples of him eating various meats intentionally or unintentionally, for the forseable future. Its a fun subject, and one which has found its way into copious works. Their is no lack of citation, I meerely gave you the first link, here are another 80,000. Sam Spade 16:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I can cite sources claiming he retired to Antarctica, too [2] :) Wyss 16:51, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, ain't the Internet great. Let's find out if he was Homosexual, as well. yep, 230,000 hits. Queer as a three mark bill. Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with mentioning (say, in a footnote) that his vegetarianism has been questioned if there's a good reference we can cite for the claim. Shanes 16:53, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

It's a trivia item in the article... there aren't too many reliable references "questioning" it... however the reliable sources usually mention plainly that Mr Hitler wasn't a vegetarian until some time during the early 30s. One must also remember that AH is (likely deservedly) one of the most smeared people in history. Lots of people made up all sorts of negative and untrue stuff about him, as if the truth wasn't scary enough, more so IMHO. The wartime OSS reports are full of that sort of thing, as was the popular press. Wyss 17:02, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

We're mentioning it in the "The road to power" section as well. But, yeah, if we were to mention and then question every strange fact written about him, the article wouldn't be very encyclopedic. I actually think the article is very good now. How are the prospects of it ever becoming featured? Shanes 17:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Given how controversial, misunderstood (in terms of detail) and polarizing the subject is, how about a snowball's chance on Venus? If it ever is featured, the numbers of kooks, vandals and PoV warriors attracted to it would likely be overwhelming and it's already one of the most vandalized articles on WP (only giving my thoughts though, one way or another I think it'd be helpful to feature it). Wyss 17:44, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

How is it that you cite a geocities article, and then dismiss 80,000 google hits, many of them vegetarian publications? This information could be discussed in a trivia section, along w tales of his escape to antartica, or his purported sexual fetishes. It is not however appropriate under "road to power", nor are speculations regarding his niece. Sam Spade 15:02, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

No, the geocities link is replete with reliable citations and sources, which is why I chose it. As for the pitfalls of citing raw quantitative Google stats, the phrase Hitler saved the world gets over half a million hits [3], and Hitler was Jesus gets almost a million [4]. Wyss 16:02, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

We do agree that speculations about Geli are unhelpful for the article, although mentioning her suicide is IMO encyclopedic. However, mentioning wholly unsupported stuff about fetishes and retirements to Antarctica is not encylopedic, since including all the nutty things ever said about Mr Hitler would fill several books and be way detached from reality. Wyss 16:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok, another remark about all those veggie publications trying to downplay (or discredit) AH's vegetarianism. Can you imagine a full page magazine ad of a contented looking Hitler with the natural, mountainous beauty of Berchtesgaden in the background, captioned, All sorts of interesting people are vegetarian! This sort of truth in advertising would be unlikely to help these websites and publications sell whatever it is they peddle. Wyss 16:17, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear Sam, dear Wyss, if I may weigh in on this: it is an undisputed fact that Hitler was a vegetarian in practice. Sometimes he is quoted uttering disdain for "carnivores" but then these quotes are usually rather dubious. On the other hand, I have heard it too that his eating habits were for medical reasons and not so much his free choice. Maybe a compromise would be to include his vegetarianism but also state that some allege this to be for medical reasons. (Other Nazis however were fully fledged vegetarians, e.g. Rudolf Heß.) Str1977 20:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Adolf didn't drink alchohol either, but I'm sure we all knew that--Xiphon 11:06, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

There is some evidence he now and then drank champagne (the post war interrogations of Linz and Gunsche in the USSR) and very small, infrequent quantities of beer and/or wine. Wyss 05:43, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

From the early 1930s AH was a vegetarian. I know this makes some vegetarians uncomfortable and there seems to be a revisionist movement afoot which claims he "cheated" (these stories are usually confounded with accounts from the 1920s when he did eat meat) or to retroactively "change the definition" of what vegetarianism is in order to exclude him and so on but Hitler's vegetarianism is widely documented. Wyss 05:41, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I've read in quite a few books that he was like 95% vegetarian and did eat meat very occasionally, like he might have a German bratwurst or blutwurst rarely -- apparently his diet was rather dull and quite repetitive, with him eating vegetable soup or something very similar like 5-6 days a week. He also drank sporadically, meaning he wasn't a complete teetotaler like he claimed to be...he had a Bavarian brewery brew him up a special beer with a VERY low-alcohol content when he became the der Führer, and he would also sip wine and champagne on special occasions and during certain meals. All of these myths about his diet and personality go back to the way the other Nazi leaders wanted to potray Hitler to the German populace and the World...they wanted to paint him as a self-denying ascetic who worked non-stop day and night for "The German people" and "the German Reich" and refused ALL luxuries and extras so that he might "get the job done quicker." This wasn't completely true at all, though SOME of it certainly was. (according to some sources he supposedly ate like a pound or more of chocolate/sweets every day!) --205.188.116.5 11:08, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Removed passage

The passage I removed places an undue emphasis on just one element, one influence of Austrian culture at that time. Especially Upper Austria was heavily nationalist in the German sense. It is reported from Hitler's childhood and he never identified as a Catholic, except for propaganda reason. We need not continue his propaganda here, do we? Str1977 21:02, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

First, they (his family) were all Catholics (nominally or otherwise) and second anti-Semitism was indeed deeply ingrained in early twentieth century German-Catholic culture (which included the border areas he grew up in). AH's anti-semitism did not arise from a void, nor was his amplified and contagious take on it received in one. Wyss 23:42, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

No, of course it did not spring from a void, but the way it stands now places the focus entirely on "Catholic culture" (whatever that is) connected with the very strong "deeply ingrained" while it leaves out German nationalism completely. Note Hitler's sympathy for the "Away-from-Rome movement" and schoolboy Adolf's selection of his classmates into Germanics and non-Germanic (I'm saying Germanic to somehow illustrate in the English language what he said in German: "Du bist kein Germane!" - He didn't say "Du bist kein Deutscher!" This difference gets lost in translation. In a way, German nationalism in the Habsburg monarchy was akin to a "traitorous philosophy" not any less than other nationalisms and Hitler subscribed to it radically - this is why he dogded the Austrian military but volunteered in Bavaria.

To sum it up: my concern is a unbalanced wording, not the passage in itself. Str1977 09:20, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Adding a phrase about German nationalist influences during his childhood is ok by me. Wyss 11:53, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Hitler made it clear that his anti-semitism came late, based upon pamphlets and political newspapers he read. It had nothing to do with him being catholic, or german-catholic culture he absorbed in his childhood. He insisted that he opposed anti-semitism as religious persecution, until he saw what I assume was a hassidim, and said "could this be a german too?", whereupon he decided Jews were a foriegn, non-german race, and thus acceptable to persecute. Sam Spade 14:49, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Again, Sam Spade, documented history and the work of many peer-reviewed historians does not support your assertion that AH's anti-semitism was not influenced by his childhood environment. Wyss 14:54, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Is that your way of saying you disagree w me? Please, don't refer to postulated sources, cite them. I am citing Mein Kampf, chapter II:

"There were very few Jews in Linz. In the course of centuries the Jews who lived there had become Europeanized in external appearance and were so much like other human beings that I even looked upon them as Germans. The reason why I did not then perceive the absurdity of such an illusion was that the only external mark which I recognized as distinguishing them from us was the practice of their strange religion. As I thought that they were persecuted on account of their Faith my aversion to hearing remarks against them grew almost into a feeling of abhorrence. I did not in the least suspect that there could be such a thing as a systematic anti-Semitism."

"Once, when passing through the inner City, I suddenly encountered a phenomenon in a long caftan and wearing black side-locks. My first thought was: Is this a Jew? They certainly did not have this appearance in Linz. I watched the man stealthily and cautiously; but the longer I gazed at the strange countenance and examined it feature by feature, the more the question shaped itself in my brain: Is this a German?"

Sam Spade 15:14, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

From the above passage...

my aversion to hearing remarks against them grew almost into a feeling of abhorrence. I did not in the least suspect that there could be such a thing as a systematic anti-Semitism

...these words plainly show he was familiar with anti-semitic remarks (how else could he have developed an "aversion" to them) and did not regard the anti-semitism he'd been exposed to as systemic, a spot on description of the typical, everyday anti-semitic attitudes he grew up with. Wyss 15:59, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it shows he was familiar. But how can he phrase without suggesting that Hitler's anti-semitism flowed from the traditional religious anti-semitism, when this quote tells us that it didn't. Str1977 20:07, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

The quote says no such thing- perhaps you're confusing absence of evidence with evidence...? Wyss 15:14, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I have no wish to stir things up again, but I took the passage

"The reason why I did not then perceive the absurdity of such an illusion was that the only external mark which I recognized as distinguishing them from us was the practice of their strange religion. As I thought that they were persecuted on account of their Faith my aversion to hearing remarks against them grew almost into a feeling of abhorrence. I did not in the least suspect that there could be such a thing as a systematic anti-Semitism."

I read Hitler to say he at first was no anti-Semite since others hated the Jews on religious grounds and he rejected religion as a basis for hatred. Until he found out about "systematic anti-Semitism" (i.e. based on racial grounds), he found it difficult to be an "intellectually fulfilled anti-Semite".

I think that's what the passage quoted by Sam are tryring to say, with the "man in the caftan" used as a catalysator. Str1977 09:37, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

raw Google

Here are four keyword searches... which do you think is the most true?

Hitler was Jesus - 889,000 hits [5]

Hitler loved the jews - 241,000 hits [6]

Hitler hated the jews - 165,000 hits [7]

Hitler was a genocidal sociopath - 438 hits [8]

Wyss 17:03, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Try using "quotes"

"Hitler was Jesus" - 25 results

"Hitler loved the jews" - 35 results

"Hitler hated the jews" - 1,090 results

"Hitler was a genocidal sociopath - none

Sam Spade 20:41, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Did you? Wyss 11:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

"Hitler was a vegetarian" - 5050 hits [9]

"Hitler was not a vegetarian" - 771 hits [10]

However, a raw Google search for a phrase, even one which seems to support my edits on this topic, is unscientific in the extreme, shouldn't be relied upon and never be used as a cite. I've posted all these examples only to show (as gently as I can) how meaningless your remark about "80,000" Google hits was. Wyss 11:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

• I guess I should note that most of those "not a vegetarian" hits seem to be on pages which actively promote vegetarianism (hardly unbiased sources etc). Wyss 11:47, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Speech Platform

I'm pretty sure that most of Hitler's early speeches were delivered in the beerhalls, not on street corners, as the article says under Early Nazi Party--Xiphon 20:10, 6 September 2005 (UTC).

That's mostly true and truth be told, I've never been comfortable with that "street corner" characterization... although he did do a few speeches on what amounted to street corners during the early 1920s. Wyss 20:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I've changed it to beer hall oratory and am (for myself at least) much happier with a phrase which has long nagged at me, thanks Xiphon. Wyss 21:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree. "Beer hall" I think is not only more accurate placewise, but also IMHO it captivates the "atmosphere" of the early Hitler speeches much better. Str1977 21:48, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

He did distribute pamphlets on street corners (and later a newspaper I think, does anyone know?), which might have led to the initial confusion.--Xiphon 09:57, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I've seen a couple pictures of him in freezing outdoor weather while ranting away to basically anyone who would listen. This would have been sometime 1920 to 1923 I think. Wyss 10:11, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

declaration of war

If the Japanese treaty so unequivocally called for it, why is there dispute at all about this declaration?

Some say (S. Haffner) it was because Hitler was already certain Germany would be defeated and wanted it to perish.

Others say Hitler considered it only a ratification of an already existing, though undeclared, state of war with the US.

Why these discussion if the situation is so clear?

Str1977 08:13, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

It's usually mentioned because AH may not have declared war on the US if the treaty didn't exist. Although the German high command didn't take the US military too seriously in late 1941, they knew declaring war on the US was risky and some saw it as a further slide down the slippery slope. Wyss 08:33, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I misread you. Since the edit says "arguably" it's ok. by me. It was late yesterday and today I was looking too much on the edit summary. All right? Str1977 08:36, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok! Btw, I didn't write that line (I don't think I've ever even tweaked it) but do agree with it. Wyss 08:55, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Geli Raubal and vegetarianism

I give up, I fully admit it not important or worth worrying over, but for the record many dispute the extent of his vegetarianism, and the idea that Hitler molested his niece (forcing her to pee on his face from the account I read), while conceivably notable, is low quality hearsay worthy only of a conspiracy theory or trivia section of the article. Sam Spade 16:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

• There is zero evidence AH ever peed on Geli Raubal's face. The OSS got fed lots of nutty "intelligence" reports by certain deeply alienated Germans. It's an old rumour with no historical support, none, goose eggs.

• He likely was intimate with his niece (but we don't know for sure), like his father Alois was with his niece (who happened to be Adolf's mum). It's not even close to conspiracy theory, Geli blew her heart out in his apartment with his pistol. He was seeing Eva Braun by then. That's all documented history. Putting someone's suicide in a trivia section is, uhm... unencyclopedic IMO.

Just for the record: AH was not dating Eva Braun during Geli's lifetime. The background to her súicide is that he went on campaign or other political stuff and left her alone in the Munich appartment, placing an SA man to guard the door. So she shot herself. It was only after Geli's death that AH came to Eva Braun as a replacement. And with her it was the same all over again. EB tried to kill herself twice though unsucessfully (though this failure might very well be planned) to force AH to stay closer to her. She succeeded in this and ended up on the "Berghof". Str1977 19:13, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

• AH's vegetarianism is widely documented, as I have cited and discussed above. It drives some vegetarians bats, which causes me to sigh and bow my head, mostly. Wyss 17:01, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

• There is no documented connection between Geli and AH's vegetarianism, that's another (but slightly more recent) rumour.

• I've heard all sorts of wacky stuff about AH. Some of it's in the article. Most of it is unsupported and would fill books (and the debunking would fill more books). This is an encyclopedia article, not a 6 volume historical tabloid bio. Wyss 17:05, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Wiki is not paper, but again, I'm not going to fuss over the inclusion of this stuff. I suppose someone should start a Adolf Hitler cryptohistory page. Sam Spade 17:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear Wyss, I'm not so sure whether it is right to take out Geli alltogether. After all, he was very close to her and her death did not got unnoticed. After all, this article is about the whole person A.H. Focus on political stuff is understandable but the death of his niece is noteworthy, IMHO. Str1977 13:58, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Please note, whether included or not, her name is "Geli" (short for Angelika). Geili has some connotations (let him who knows German understand) and we shouldn't do this to anyone to ended so tragically. Str1977 18:42, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I've put it back where it was originally, less the speculation and reference to unsupported rumours. I agree btw, whenever I hear some of this stuff I shake my head in disgust, by all accounts she was bright and independent-minded. This was a tragic suicide. Wyss 19:02, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Wyss, I agree. I don't like this sart of thing included as well. I wouldn't want my medical record covered on the net either. But I think the Geli suicide story (and I was referring exclusively to this) deserves balanced and sympathetic coverage. Str1977 19:05, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

PS, re the "Geili" that was my typo in an edit summary and I duly shuddered when I saw it flash by, then Sam Spade innocently picked it up and used it on the talk page, it's never been mis-spelled in the article so far as I know. Wyss 19:15, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I thought it was only a typo. Her surname I think is "Raubal", but at least that bears no connotation. From your last comment I take it you are from the German speaking part of Switzerland - if the flag on your page suggests that you are Swiss. Str1977 19:52, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Another careless typo (argh), but happily it was always spelled Geli Raubal in the article, no fix needed there :) Wyss 21:54, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Living places: House in Muchen, Obersalzberg, Wolf's Lair, Vinnitsa

I think we should mention were Hitler stayed and lived. I know the following

• He had a house in Munchen
• He has a house at the Obersalzberg near (not in) Berchtesgarden that was expanded and the nazi clique built house there too.
• I guess he lived in the Reichskanzlei after he 1933
• Wolf's Lair near Rastenburg
• Hitler moved on 25 August 1942 from the Wolf's lair to Vinnitsa and stayed there the rest of the year. (source Alan Clark's Barbarossa page 218
• And of course, he lived in the Fuhrerbunker, near the Reichskanzlei.

Andries 21:06, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Keep in mind he spent vast periods of time at the Berghof complex at Berchtesgaden from the time Mein Kampf became a best seller until around 1944. Any mention of his residences should make it clear that the Berghof was "home base" for him. Also he had an apartment in Munich, not a house (although he bought Eva Braun a villa there after her first suicide attempt). Wyss 21:42, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Attempted Assassination of Hitler

In 1938, some disgruntled German guy (name?) attempted to assasinate Hitler at a beer house where he was giving a speech. However, Hitler left early, and the bomb that was planted exploded killing several NAzis, but not Hitler. He was killed in Dachau in 1945. I was wondering if anyone knew his name. it's an interesting historical tidbit. i learned about him at dachau and at the topography of terror in berlin. XXXX

Have a look at Georg Elser. And please sign your posts using four tildes. Str1977 17:18, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Lossow and Seisser

Dear Wyss, thanks for your corrections on my edit. However, I have decided to leave out the names of the two individuals from here (but they are still at Gustav von Kahr. I also have worded the sentence in another way. If the wording is still akward, don't hesitate to correct it.

What the sentence tries to say is: had the coup been a success, a government would have been formed comprised of Ludendorff, Hitler, Lossow and Seisser. This is shown on proclamations posted in Munich at the time of the coup. You can see such a poster here: [11] Str1977 12:12, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Str1977, I'd never seen that poster and smirked when I saw AH had made sure Ludendorff's name was on top of the list. Btw that's what I thought you wanted to say and yeah, IMO Lossow and Seisser's names don't need to be in this main article. Wyss 17:38, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome and thanks for your effort. I had only put them in after editing "Gustav von Kahr", where they are mentioned anyway, as members of a triumvirate, but since their articles do not exist, I think it's enough to merely say "military head, police head". Str1977 17:56, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

More pictures

This page probably has enough pictures as it is, but if you need more pictures, the German version of this page has some interesting ones already uploaded. Check it out. FranksValli 01:19, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Someone tried to change AH's baby photo to the famous school photo taken in Linz when he was a pre-teen, and put a PoV caption on it. Most historians have noticed AH's demeanor in that photo and attribute it to severe adjustment problems he had after enrolling in a much larger school in a larger town, when only a year before he'd been a popular small-town kid described as a "ring leader" among his friends (by all accounts he was miserable at the new school). Using a single photo (with a facial expression captured in a fraction of a second) to characterize someone's psychological state during late childhood is IMHO unsupportable and not encyclopedic. Wyss 18:59, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Decimate

Yes, while 2000 years ago it had a more limited meaning, documented usage has since changed, see [12] and [13]. However, the anon editor who altered this to devastated seems to be part of a significant minority, in the latter cite there's a note implying (but not stating outright) 44% of that dictionary's usage panel preferred the anon's take on the word. Wyss 16:26, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Categories including Hitler

Haham hanuka, I noticed you removed Hitler from Category:Mass murderers. Please explain. I'd also appreciate if you'd:

1. use the edit summaries to explain your edits
2. put something on this talk page.

Thanks. -- Dave C.^{talk | Esperanza} 19:02, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

He was not a mass murderer. Mr Hitler was a genocidal sociopath. Wyss 19:24, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I see there is a section of mass murder called mass murder by a state. Hitler was the head of state and was the driving force behind the final solution. I'm not comfortable with the logic that since Hitler didn't kill all those people on his own, that he is not a mass murderer.

The category totalitarian dictators doesn't imply mass murder or genocide, i.e. although Mussolini and Castro are not known for being genocidal, they are listed alongside Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Milošević. The Mussolini article states Mussolini has been said to have saved more Jews than even Oskar Schindler. I would like to see a category leaning towards genocidal war criminals. As a compromise, I've added a note about totalitarian dictators on the the mass murderers category page.

If this has been discussed previously, can someone point me to the thread? I'm having trouble finding it. -- Dave C.^{talk | Esperanza} 01:31, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

On a related note, while there may be "some" political scientists who do not regard the Nazi regime as totalitarian, as long as there are several reliable sources who do, I don't think it's appropriate to continue removing that category.--chris.lawson 21:56, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Many social scientists dispute the entire concept of totalitarian, saying that it lacks historical explanatory power. I'm not making that argument myself, but saying that it's one that Wikipeidia editors have no business getting into, given the NPOV policies and the policies against original research. To avoid making the call one way or another, Wikipedia editors can stick to terms that are not disputed. 172 | Talk 22:04, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

While we're on the subject of category cruft, placing Hitler in the category of "LGBT right opposition" seems, well, pointless. We might as well put him in a category of racists, or a category of bigots, or a category of white supremacists. And what's "Nazi architecture" doing down there? Hitler wasn't an architect.--chris.lawson 22:04, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

From a scholarly perspective the term "totalitarian dictators" is hopelessly amateurish, journalistic shorthand. Given the structure of the government AH led, it's misleading and not helpful. "Fascist dictator" is closer, "fascist leader" is spot on. Wyss 22:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Reference request

Could John Kenney, or whoever else is supporting the vegetarian claim, provide a reputable source for the claim that H was a vegetarian, as opposed to someone who tried to reduce his meat intake? I can see only links to Google searches above, but we need a proper reference for this in the article; without one, please stop reverting. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 06:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Read Vegetarianism of Adolf Hitler. Wyss 07:02, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I have. Even the biographers who say he was a vegetarian (the ones who are quoted) say he ate meat from time to time, which means he wasn't a vegetarian. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 08:42, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

That's because agenda-pushers put together the original cites on the List of vegetarians page. Traudl Junge, his secretary, told lots of people (including the BBC) he didn't eat meat. Bee Wilson, a food writer for the Guardian, is cited in the article but nobody seems to bother to read the link to her article, where she describes his strict vegetarian regime (and ends with a "gotcha" anecdote about someone slipping bone marrow into his soup without his knowledge). Wyss 12:35, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I've read in quite a few books that he was like 95% vegetarian and did eat meat very occasionally, like he might have a German bratwurst or blutwurst rarely -- apparently his diet was rather dull and quite repetitive, with him eating vegetable soup or something very similar like 5-6 days a week. He also drank sporadically, meaning he wasn't a complete teetotaler like he claimed to be...he had a Bavarian brewery brew him up a special beer with a VERY low-alcohol content when he became the der Führer, and he would also sip wine and champagne on special occasions and during certain meals. All of these myths about his diet and personality go back to the way the other Nazi leaders wanted to potray Hitler to the German populace and the World...they wanted to paint him as a self-denying ascetic who worked non-stop day and night for "The German people" and "the German Reich" and refused ALL luxuries and extras so that he might "get the job done quicker." This wasn't completely true at all, though SOME of it certainly was. (according to some sources he supposedly ate like a pound or more of chocolate/sweets every day!) 205.188.116.5 11:04, 12 October 2005 (UTC)