Talk:Ahmed el-Tayeb

BLP and poor editing

This is an article on a living person, and editors are required to abide by the requirements of WP:BLP. Also, WP:LABEL applies to the section title that was modified. I dont even see a need for any of this, as el-Tayeb isnt accused of saying any of the things that have drawn condemnation from such sources as the NY Daily News. nableezy - 19:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

All sources describe this as antisemitic. This is a fair decription. Crystalfile (talk) 19:44, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

No, one source says the rally itself was antisemitic, and that is the one with a rather poor reputation (NY Daily News). Ynet calls it an anti-Israel rally, JPost doesn't have the word anti anywhere other than saying that Tahrir Sq was the center of anti-government protests. And that response doesnt do say anything about the point raised, namely the WP:LABELing in Wikipedia's voice such a view. nableezy - 20:54, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Ynet - "Cairo rally: One day we'll kill all Jews" - do you think this counts as antisemitism?

Jpost - "Muslim Brotherhood rally vows to 'kill all Jew" - do you think this is antisemitism?

Digital Journalism - "Muslim Brotherhood activists vow to 'one day kill all Jews'", "the Muslim Brotherhood held a rally... which turned one of the most venomous anti-Semitic meetings in Egypt in recent times.

NYDaily - "d holds anti-Semetic rally, draws thousands at Cairo’s top mosque vowing to ‘one day kill all the Jews"

This is clearly antisemitic even if words arent used. killing jews is antisemitic, no? Maybe the "kill all jews rally" rally is better description as more sources refer to it? Crystalfile (talk) 21:03, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

All the sources say that there was a rally against the Judaization of Jerusalem, and that some things that are anti-semitic were said. They do not say that the rally itself was anti-semitic, and you have yet to address the issue of WP:LABEL. nableezy - 21:24, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

You not answering me. Do you think saying kill all Jews is antisemitic? Crystalfile (talk) 21:52, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

That isnt relevant, but sure. Yes, that is anti-semitic. That people said that at a rally does not however mean that the rally itself was anti-semitic, and it certainly does not mean that Wikipedia should say, in the narrative voice, that it was an antisemitic rally. Now, you answer my points, specifically that most of the sources dont say that the rally was anti-semitic, and that using that section title violates WP:LABEL. nableezy - 23:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

OK. So you agree that all sources agree that it has antisemitic chanting? But you still say the rally was not antisemitic? Maybe we should ask third opinion whether these sources show that this was "antisemitic rally" because speakers talking about trecherous jews and people saying kill the jews is definitely a antisemitic rally in my opinion. I am surprised you say it isnt! Crystalfile (talk) 09:33, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Answer the points raised. The use of that section title violates WP:LABEL, and additionally is only supported by the NY Daily News source, which is just based of the Ynet source. Unless you can address those concerns, I will be reverting your edit. nableezy - 14:24, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I think this is obviously antisemitic rally and i am surprised you say it isnt. Have you read the sources?However sources also refer to it as 'kill all jews' rally. if you prefer this i dont mind changing it. Otherwise maybe we sort this out at a noticeboard and ask whether antisemitic is good description? What do u want?Crystalfile (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

You continue to ignore what I have written. You continue to ignore that most of the sources do not describe the rally as anti-semitic, and you continue to ignore that saying, in the narrative voice, that it was violates WP:LABEL. I am reverting the edit under BLP grounds, and advise you that WP:BLP prohibits you from re-reverting absent a consensus. nableezy - 18:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:LABEL doesn't apply here as we not name the subject of the article as anti-Semite.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 07:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Where exactly in WP:LABEL does it say it has to be labeling the person? And imagine my shock at seeing more "friends" here. nableezy - 13:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok since you say it doesn't apply, and NYDaily and Digital Journalism both describe rally as antisemitic and other sources refer to it as the "Cairo rally: One day we'll kill all Jews" and ""Muslim Brotherhood rally vows to 'kill all Jew", I will describe it as antisemitic rally. Why do all sources need to use the word antisemitic? Also no source argues with this.Crystalfile (talk) 08:40, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

You cannot revert an edit made on BLP grounds without consensus. If you do not self-revert I will be reporting you. nableezy - 13:53, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

This was raised at WP:NPOV/N. Additionally, one of the sources used was DigitalJournal.com, which is not a reliable source. That has been removed. That left the NY Daily News, and only the NY Daily News, as a source for saying the rally was antisemitic. nableezy - 03:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I cleaned it up a bit, attributing the antisemitism criticism and eliminating the duplicate source (the JPost article was a summary of the Ynet article). It's probably still WP:Undue weight, but I think it's a little better than it was. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

For WP:UNDUE, I agree that may be the current state, but it seems like the grand imam of a prominent mosque can certainly get a longer Wikipedia article and information shouldn't be that hard to find, especially if users like Nableezy are familiar with him (he/she may not be). --Activism1234 15:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

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