Talk:Al and Barbara Garvey

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by BlueMoonset (talk) 23:07, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

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• ... that California's Marin County hot tub culture started in 1966 when woodworker/artist Al Garvey designed his own redwood hot tub?

Source: Beth Winegarner (December 2003). "How Marin County Became Synonymous With Hot Tubs." Marinscope Community Newspapers

• ALT1 ... that Al and Barbara Garvey started Marin County's hot tub culture in 1966 by throwing parties featuring their outdoor redwood tub?

Source: Duncan Campbell (July 2002). "From hot tub to hot water", The Guardian.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/American Stock Exchange Building

Created by Binksternet (talk). Self-nominated at 03:16, 25 February 2020 (UTC).

• Note that the article has been changed since its nomination, with the topic expanding to include Al's wife, Barbara. The article's name is now Al and Barbara Garvey. This was done because both of them worked on establishing hot tub culture in Marin County, both of them pushed the resurgence of tango dancing in the San Francisco Bay Area, and they have collaborated on art projects. Their fame is combined. Binksternet (talk) 17:16, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

• I am interested in doing a review for this nomination. I notice there are several excellent photos used in the article, and I am curious if the nominator wishes to propose hooks using any of the images? I hope to finish my review by tomorrow. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 04:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

• NOTE, I crossed off ALT0 since the article title has been renamed. I am open to a reworded version of the hook. Flibirigit (talk) 04:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for suggesting a photo. When I first wrote this DYK nom, the photos were not yet uploaded by Al Garvey, so I didn't even consider it. But you're right, it would be fun to have a photo, for instance the hot tub one (which probably would not scale down very well) or perhaps File:Al and Barbara Garvey with hats.jpg which isn't used in the article but was part of the upload batch from Al Garvey the other day (see Commons:Al and Barbara Garvey for all the images).

Otherwise, I could pick a tango image and write a hook about tango. What's your preference? Binksternet (talk) 04:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I really have no preference, it's your choice if you want to use an image. Since there is a discussion here regarding photo licenses, a final decision on images might have to be deferred until that discussion is closed. I can however go ahead and review the rest of the article. I will do my best to have the first review done within 24 hours. Flibirigit (talk) 05:01, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - ?
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ?

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - ?
• Interesting:

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed: - ?
• Used in article: - ?
• Clear at 100px: - ?

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article was created on February 23 and nominated within seven days. Questions on sourcing and citations listed below. ALT1 is interesting and has potential. It is verified with the source provided, but the phrase "started Marin County's hot tub culture" or similar are not explicity mentioned or cited in the section "Hot tub culture". Plagiarism is borderline since some direct quotes are rather long and include multiple sentences. Article is neutral in tone. Length is adequate. QPQ requirement is complete. Overall the article is in decent shape. Please don't be discouraged with the questions listed. The Commons discussion on the photos needs to be resolved. This article would be much better with photos than without. I am also open to considering other hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 08:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Questions

•  Done In the introduction, the phrase "Barbara collaborates with Al on certain of his art projects" seems to have to be missing a word, or have too many words in it.
• In the "Personal lives" section, what is the source for "Their first daughter, Megan, was born in San Francisco in 1961"?
•  Done Citation # 5 is a bare URL, and needs more details added.
•  Done Is it possible to shorten some of the direct quotes? For example, the fourth paragraph in the "Personal lives" is almost entirely direct quotes.
• In the "Woodworking" section, what is the source for "When Al started woodworking, he took a long hiatus from painting"?
• In the "Tango dancing" section, what is the source for "Tango images fill many of Al's 21st century paintings"?
• In the "Personal lives" section, the phrase "but the houseboat arrangement was growing more commercial" is confusing. What is it in relation to? Were they living in a houseboat? Please reword for clarity.
• In the "Printmaking" section, the phrase "after the Sausalito Chamber of Commerce stopped hosting it" needs more explanation. Was the art festival revived in 1965, or did end after 1966? This is confusing.
• In the "Printmaking" section, what is meant by "modern Israel"?

• I tweaked the wording and fleshed out the bare URL. The Garveys two children are not in a published reference, just part of general knowledge about the couple. Binksternet (talk) 00:01, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for the changes. It would be best to hide or remove general statements without a clear source. I added a few more to the questions above. The discussion at the common regarding the photos appears to be ongoing. Flibirigit (talk) 18:36, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

• I have noticed some progress in the Commons discussion here. Do you want to wait until that is resolved? I don't mind putting this on hold if necessary. Flibirigit (talk) 02:21, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

• Sure, we can wait and see what happens at Commons. Binksternet (talk) 04:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

• Any update on this? Also, did you see the other non-photo concerns listed? Flibirigit (talk) 00:57, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Binksternet:, it appears that the commons discussion is now closed. Do you still want to continue with this nomination? Flibirigit (talk) 08:51, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, we can continue without an image. Binksternet (talk) 13:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Okay great, please see the concerns listed in the questions above. Three of them are still outstanding. Flibirigit (talk) 23:56, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I have added some new questions. Flibirigit (talk) 00:27, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

It has been over one month since the nominator edited the article, and questions asked six weeks ago still have not been addressed. I will recommend closing and rejecting this nomination if not addressed within a week. Flibirigit (talk) 14:21, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I've left them a talk page message asking them to return here. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:01, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Let's close and reject the nomination. Sorry to have taken your time and attention away from other work. Binksternet (talk) 16:06, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

, withdrawn as per nominator. Flibirigit (talk) 21:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Al Garvey 2008 - Home in Puerto Vallarta.jpg
• Al Garvey walnut entry.jpg
• Al and Barbara Garvey in their Fairfax studio.jpg
• Al and Barbara Garvey tango dancing portrait 1.jpg
• Al and Barbara Garvey wedding portrait.jpg
• Folkwear pattern 121 Guatemalan Gabacha.jpg
• Garvey hot tub in pine tree.jpg
• Garvey house in Mallorca 1.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:15, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Al Garvey - El Americano.jpg
• Al Garvey - Estop.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:36, 21 March 2020 (UTC)