Talk:Alaskan Bush People

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This article was originally created in article space in sub-stub condition. I WP:BOLDly moved it to draftspace, where nothing was done except deletion. This is par for the course when dealing with AFC and their apparent belief that we're not here to collaborate on and expand our coverage of what's notable in the world and that it's someone else's job to do all the real work while they pick low-hanging fruit. Despite ongoing discussion (more like lip service) about boldly moving content to draftspace and the importance of deletion processes, I quit doing such moves rather quickly. The fact that it wasn't resulting in expanding our coverage of notable topics was the main reason why, with that version of the article being the poster child for such. That version of the article contained mention of the legal troubles of the Brown family, which at the time included scores of charges of theft and unsworn falsification, a case which went almost as far back as the program itself. As no conviction had been handed down at that time, there was no reason to belabor the point per WP:BLP.

Fast forward to now: the article has been re-created, while lacking the history of the deleted version, another favorite tactic of admins active in AFC. Billy and Joshua Brown have been convicted of a small subset of those charges, presumably a plea deal, but that wasn't specified. This has been reported aplenty by tabloid media, but also by credible enough outlets such as the Alaska Dispatch News and Fox News, among others (Google reports approximately 549,000 hits for the search string "alaskan bush people jail"). Both stories linked above prominently mention the program and the relation of the two Browns to the program.

This version of the article is typical of what our coverage of reality TV has come to resemble as of late: a content framework created merely to support an episode guide, while offering little or no encyclopedic information about the program itself. This amounts to creating content for content's sake, rather than content which is accessible to a general audience, which would include people who don't watch the program or who don't watch television at all. These sort of articles also give off a strong whiff of being created as part of the producers' social media strategy, rather than factual, neutral encyclopedia entries. Alaska: The Last Frontier is in a little better shape than numerous other articles which have followed. However, I watch that program on occasion, as a dear friend is obsessed with it and has it on just about every time I go and visit her. Apart from my own personal familiarity with the Kilcher family, I can deduce that the program is about a family farming and ranching operation which has existed since the 1940s. That is not reflected in the least in that article. Instead, it reads like another WP:INUNIVERSE exercise, except that the article does acknowledge the sizable small town near to the Kilcher homestead which the program typically avoids acknowledging. It's also a celebrity worship exercise by virtue of giving more weight to Jewel than to her plenty notable grandfather, a POV which has been floating around on the 'net since long before Wikipedia ever existed.

I mention that program as an example of the pattern I've observed throughout these reality TV articles for years. If I can see right through the lack of credibility herein, don't you suppose that others can, too? It suggests that our target audience are people who are here to mindlessly consume content and are incapable of discerning what they're being offered. Moreover, the fractured article history and lack of mention of the convictions of Billy and Joshua Brown suggests that we're trying to whitewash that information. As convictions were handed down and there's plenty of media coverage of same, there's no way that anyone can credibly hide behind BLP and try to suppress it. Judge Pallenberg was an applicant for the most recent vacancy on the Alaska Supreme Court at the time of this trial and probably relished in the easy pickings and wide media exposure provided to him by presiding over the case. At least that's the impression I developed from the media coverage, particularly of his remarks from the bench, but now that doesn't matter so much because he wasn't appointed to the position. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 22:30, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

But wait, there's more! We have an editor out there who evidently believes that the purpose of these reality television articles is either to serve as a promotional vehicle or as an episode guide rather than an encyclopedia entry. I have to say "evidently" because this editor has shown a fondness for edit warring while at the same time absolutely refusing to explain their actions. They've created or expanded a number of similar articles in like fashion, with no substance and cherry-picked sources. This has extended to attempts at whitewashing. Obviously, I've explained plenty, while they've explained nothing. You need sources? Here's one news article from 2014. Here's a far more recent article by the same reporter published in the same newspaper. Of particular note are several paragraphs contained in that latter article:

Alaska has a love-hate relationship with the dozens of shows that sometimes make a bearded, frontier caricature of life in the 49th state.

Shows like "Alaskan Bush People" drum up huge ratings but outrage some Alaskans with over-the-top portrayals of characters trying to live an allegedly remote life 30 minutes from a pizza parlor and inaccurate depictions of nearby communities.

Some of the Brown family featured on that show now have criminal records here: Patriarch Billy Brown, then 63, and his 33-year-old son, Joshua "Bam Bam" Brown, were each sentenced to 30 days in jail last June for lying about their residency on Permanent Fund dividend applications.

This presents a much different view of this particular topic and related topics than what this editor has attempted to push through their editing activity. So let me get this straight: the Alaska Dispatch News is a reliable source when it suits your purposes, namely so long as the "sources" are the complimentary, in-universe "reporting" of Emily Fehrenbacher, but any other reporting by the ADN is an example of backwoods hillbilly media that needs to be discredited at all costs? That's the exact message being sent here by this editor. It doesn't pass a smell test even with both nostrils plugged up. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 00:56, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Unless someone objects, I'm going to start a mass revamp of the article over the next couple of days and add the controversy regarding the unsworn convictions by the Brown family. Also, I think we should find some sources regarding the production and reception, as well as the cast. Meanwhile, I've asked Cyphoidbomb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), an uninvolved administrator, for his thoughts on the matter. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:03, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

The above is an awful lot to read, but it seems to boil down to:

1. The AFC process is crummy, as are the admins who help out there.
2. If only there were a way to WP:HISTMERGE this article with the deleted sub-sections
3. The state of reality show articles in general is poor, as they tend to focus on in-universe content.
4. This article should contain information on the Brown family's convictions.
5. RadioKAOS knows Jewel's family.
6. Koala15 has been removing maintenance templates without appropriate justification or explanation, so they must be interested in promotion of the show.

I hope I got most of the important points down. Let's start with #6. Koala, can you please provide an explanation for why you are removing the maintenance templates? Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

While I am trying to add the conviction information as well during my major restructuring of the article, we should add reception and production information where necessary, as well as ratings information. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:59, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I removed the template because that's not how maintenance templates work, if you want something added to the article the burden is on you to add it yourself. Not to put a template up asking someone else to do it. Koala15 (talk) 20:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I don't know that I'd agree with that entirely, Koala. Though I'd certainly want to dissuade someone who was doing it repeatedly to be obnoxious, (like that one IP user who flags every film plot that's 701+ words long) the point of a maintenance template is to point out what needs to be fixed. I've had to leave wordy templates like this in Indian TV articles where I have no knowledge of the subject, but where the formatting or other content is way beyond Wikipedia norms. Now granted, if the other user is familiar with the subject matter, and it appears RadioKAOS is, perhaps some basic communication is in order. I'm sure Kaos doesn't quite get your vague summaries, and if you think the maintenance flag in the article is a bit much, maybe dropping a quick note is a way to go? Similarly, Kaos, maybe pitching some ideas and sources on the talk page of how the content should be presented would be a bit more productive than flagging the article? There's a happy medium somewhere here, I'm sure. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:37, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Now I can't locate the source I read, but the Browns were approached in 2009 to create a one-off docudrama based on Billy Bryan Brown's self-published book One Wave At A Time, as presently being sold on alaskanwildernessfamily.com with prequel The Lost Years. Somewhere along the line, the project was expanded into a continuing series.

I actually enjoy the show, in the same manner I've enjoyed Supernatural since Episode One. What I don't like is the constant drumbeat that this loose "reenactment" is somehow REAL. And I am troubled by the use of Wikipedia as nothing more than a repository for network-approved promotional statements. At least the program has dropped the meme that "the government" burned them out of their first Alaskan home (which incidentally was NOT their first). Per Billy's own book, they spent years squatting one place after another, living in campers, house-sitting, tenting pierside, and even abandoning at least one house the moment they'd completed it.

On the series, they abandoned one such house after claiming they were being fired upon by locals -- the very people who had just been depicted as helping the Browns to build it! Neighbor Jason Hoake had got frustrated with having his house buzzed at all hours by production helicopters, and fired off "two or three mortar-type fireworks," which got him a $500 FAA fine.

Every time they whinge about "the Lower 48," I cringe. Fish And Game stated that Billy Brown had not established Alaska residency until August 12 2012, and mentioned his established residences in Colorado and Texas. Per an Alaskan friend, all you need do to queue up for the PFD is live in Alaska for one year, state intent to continue living in Alaska, then spend at least six months per year in Alaska -- "it ain't rocket science." Yet the Browns managed to screw this up for four years running.

The Browns were also charged with falsifying info on hunting and fishing licenses purchased October 2012 (5 counts, $300 fines) and illegal sport fishing (September 2013). https://www.adn.com/crime-justice/article/alaskan-bush-people-fined-lying-hunting-license-applications-court-documents/2015/08/13/

I'm guessing the production company (WILMA) had a role in all this, intending to fill their shooting schedule despite Alaskan law, yet happily taking aid from the Film Production Incentive Program. https://www.commerce.alaska.gov/web/ded/DEV/Film/QualifiedProjects.aspx
Weeb Dingle (talk) 21:08, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Billy Brown started out trying to make himself over into a cheap family-friendly copy of Papa Pilgrim (see the book Pilgrim's Wilderness A True Story of Faith and Madness on the Alaska Frontier by Tom Kizzia). First he did the self-published book. Then he took the family on a long book tour in an RV in the lower 48. He did a bunch of youtube videos and other stuff trying to find someone who would fund a documentary about his life. TV got so hungry for Alaska reality TV in 2013 that a production company funded a handful of TV episodes on a tiny budget starring the Brown family which became "Alaskan Bush People". The family did live at one time in Alaska (though likely not in "the bush"), but I've seen no evidence that they lived in Alaska between their book tour (2006) and when the show went into production. 12.12.144.130 (talk) 23:16, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

unsourced claims

No reliable source (Billy Brown doesn't count) has ever confirmed the Browns had a home in Alaska which was burned down by "Alaskan authorities". 12.12.144.130 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Check out my rant (above).

Again, I kinda like this merry band of goofy hillbillies, but there came a point where I couldn't shake the notion that they'd transitioned from harmless play-acting to the smug belief they're actually putting one over on people like me. It's one thing to ask for my suspension of disbelief, quite another to smirk about conning me.

It'd be really cool if this article were allowed to present the series background, the actuality of its (let's face facts here) actors, the role of the production company in shaping the narrative (a.k.a. "warping reality"), and comments upon popular following. As it is, there aren't even season summaries, let alone episode descriptions. If it were a hair worse, I'd recommend it for deletion.

The production company intern has VERY ineptly tried to put up reference tags. If I have a few minutes to kill, I may apply them properly. However, I will not take responsibility for any errors.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 03:08, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Fake show

Why is there no paragraph on the fact that the show is a 100% fake "reality" show? We all know it, so why is not mentioned in the article? Garnhami (talk) 14:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

What 'AFC' (or more correctly, AfC?) MEANS

Apparently it refers to Article Creation. I saw 'AFC' mentioned by at least one editor, and I had NO IDEA what it meant (and they assumed that it was clear to anyone who was reading their comment), so I searched, and google eventually seems to indicate that it refers to a group on wiki oriented to mainspace Article Creation It might have been helpful to have indicated that for the casual reader. UnderEducatedGeezer (talk) 01:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Matt Brown Rape charges

Matt Brown was accused of rape by 2 women in 2018. 96.232.157.164 (talk) 23:50, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

New Brown Family show

Many people have asked what happened to the Brown Family. Why not have another show? 76.127.116.171 (talk) 22:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)