Talk:Alauddin Khalji's conquest of Malwa

Numbers

The details and numbers regarding the numbers are shrouded in mystery. The only contemporary account of the battle is of khasrau as per kishori lal as well. He in general regarded as the most important source of events happening during this period. This could be seen from the fact kishori lal seems to have completely disregarded the T.M.S account since it's contradict the former one account

The later accounts of yahua and ferishtah are all written in centuries after the conquest.The reliability of these is a matter of debate as later accounts often exaggerate which seems to be the case throughout the history. So I'm adding the numbers given in khasrau account Summerkillsme (talk) 05:05, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

The book says that Khusrau mentioned over 30-40,000 cavalry, while an unknown number of Infantry, while 3 other historians stated that there was "40,000 horse" and "100,000" foot. You are saying they are exaggerated with no basis.

The sources are clear in saying that there was at least 100,000 infantry, and 30-40,000 cavalry. [1] Noorullah (talk) 05:50, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

none of the 3 of those historian are contemporary . They are writing 3-4 centuries after the battle . Only major contemporary account is of khasrau and he hasn't mentioned anything like these numbers.

Contemporary accounts are the one which are given major importance in Wikipedia Summerkillsme (talk) 07:11, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

@Summerkillsme I’m sorry but thats not true, See WP:RS. Wikipedia prefers secondary sources. Noorullah (talk) 17:24, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Again is there a contemprorary primary source which may mention such numbers and if yes are there any secondary sources which elobarate these claims? Also the source that you mentioned only states an inumerable number of "Infantary." Normstahlie (talk) 06:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@Noorullah21 Also sorry to say this, but ferishta, yahya, haji-ud-dabir all seem not to consider the primary source of Amir Khusrau who's written first hand accounts on these events considering they add a set figure to an ambiguous number which wasn't mentioned in the primary account. This could come under WP:FRINGE. Ferishta's accounts are often exaggerated and treated with utmost caution by contemporary scholars such as Richard Eaton, Murshid Ghulam and Wolseley Haig and R.D Banerji, unless you have a reliable secondary source which directly uses these figures in their books we cannot say for sure that these numbers existed. Normstahlie (talk) 06:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry but no, Yahya, Firishta, and haji-ud-dabir all cite a figure of 100,000 and 40,000. Amir Khusrau himself states there was innumerable infantry while theres a plethora of other sources that cite a figure of 100,000. [2]

Nizami even cites the figure of their being innumerable infantry/beyond computation, meaning there was so much it couldn't be counted. [3]

For other sources that cite a figure of 100,000:

[4] - page 54

[5] - page 457

Another source by Lal [6] - Page 134

Chandra Ray [7] - page 907

To simply conclude, there is innumerable secondary sources that mention a figure of over 100,000. Noorullah (talk) 07:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

K.S Lal as I said primarily used Amir Khusrau's account as his main focus within his text, which is also the contemporary primary source for the event. He mentioned Yahya, Ferishtah and Haji-Ud-Dabir as side notes all of these are primary sources which need to be taken with caution and cannot be taken at face value if not mentioned by any other secondary sources.

Chandraraya's sources check outs other, Andrew Bostom is not a historian. H.V Trivedi's source is not fully visible to me, K.S Lal's second

Fair enough for the two sources you have mentioned. Normstahlie (talk) 08:07, 13 July 2024 (UTC)