Talk:Appa Jalgaonkar

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 21:52, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

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• ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar stopped taking singing lessons because his voice started cracking when he reached puberty? Source: The Indian Express
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sora ga Suki!

Moved to mainspace by DaxServer (talk). Self-nominated at 10:40, 8 January 2023 (UTC).

• Before a more formal review, and waiting until the maintenance tags have been removed,

• Does "eminent" (2 locations) and "renowned" need to be written?
• The quote would be better inline. In general where headers can be reduced it would be advisable to create readable prose as compared to single line headers. Though some of the headers are understandable and useful despite the section size.
• There is an ISBN missing template; if the original version is cited then it wouldn't have an ISBN.
• Are there any other Indian-language sources available to help expand the article?

• FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 06:45, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey FacetsOfNonStickPans! Thanks for the comments.

• I've toned down to a more neutral word "prominent". I've retained the eminent in the lead first sentence. Let me know what you think of it.
• Quote moved to inline. I'm not sure where the "Teaching" section can merged to, any ideas?
• I found the book, let me find the page number. (Why didn't I think of it 😅)
• I'm afraid I couldn't find sources in Marathi, but then again I don't speak it and thus limited to English sources

Looking forward for more inputs — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:28, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Yikes, the book doesn't have an ISBN here either — DaxServer (t · m · c) 15:11, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

DaxServer, just a short reply to the ISBN issue. The book version you are seeing is from a time when they didn't have ISBNs. It doesn't matter where it is online. There are newer versions with ISBNs. It took me a long time to figure this out when I first came across this in other old books. It is a rather interesting tidbit/curio, a gem of a one really. FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 13:38, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah I see, thanks for sharing the info, it's invaluable :) I don't have access to any new versions. Can I remove the ISBN missing template or do you have other suggestions? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 14:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

 Reviewing...FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

• , article is new, long enough. There is no copyvio, there are two quotes, and some short phrases, whose usage doesn't seem to raise any direct close paraphrasing concern however it could be better. This particular paraphrasing needs close attention: Did he start to play the harmonium only after he lost his voice, or, was he learning the harmonium before his voice change (maybe with other instruments, we don't know), and following the voice change, he focused on the harmonium more, going on to specialize in it. You have paraphrased it to mean to former. The article uses these two citations TIE, TOI for the line, He later started learning to play harmonium.
• The hook is cited. (Voice change in the voice/music area is a big thing.) Here is a shorter version, however the longer ALT0 reads better,

• ALT1: ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar became an instrumentalist following puberty?
• ALT2: ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar became an instrumentalist following a voice change?

• Basic maintenance tags need to be sorted out by the editor. A number of them, along with associated content, can simply be removed to save time if researching it takes too long. Since the article is now listed there isn't really a definite time frame. Article specifics are out of the bounds a DYK review and need to be taken to the talk page. QPQ not required. FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 18:15, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for the review. Actually QPQ is required, I completely forgot about it. I'll do it on Monday and go thru your review on Monday as well — DaxServer (t · m · c) 00:09, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

  @FacetsOfNonStickPans: QPQ done. I've changed the Harmonium phrase to "he later focused on learning to play harmonium and specialized in it" as suggested. I'm adding the links to voice change in the ALTs:

  • ALT1a ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar became an instrumentalist following puberty?
  • ALT2a ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar became an instrumentalist following a voice change?

  — DaxServer (t · m · c) 11:30, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

  gtg FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 17:22, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

• @DaxServer: the hook might be hedged, but the lead of the article basically spells out but-for causation – could we align the two? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:29, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
  • ALT3 ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar became an instrumentalist because of a voice change with the onset of puberty?

  @Theleekycauldron: Let me know how this looks like? Do you have other suggestions? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:26, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

  • @DaxServer: I guess what I'm confused about would be: do we know that puberty was the but-for cause of the switch, or was that only one factor, or was it completely coincidental? And sourcing would be appreciated. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:09, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

    @Theleekycauldron: I think I understand now what you meant. So, according to the source from The Indian Express, he stopped taking singing lessons due to voice crack because of puberty and only then started playing harmonium. We actually do not know if he already started learning it before, but from the source we could determine he shifted his focus to harmonium. Puberty voice cracking is the absolute cause for stopping singing lessons. This is actually my original hook at the top. I guess FacetsOfNonStickPans further simplified it and created ALT1 and ALT2. I'd say the original ALT0 is the closest one that reflects the source. Would you recommend striking off ALT1 and 2? Also, in the article I didn't cite the lead as its already cited in the body — DaxServer (t · m · c) 21:57, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

    I'd probably just write a hook to that effect – "stopped singing due to puberty, subsequently picking up the..." theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:43, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

  • ALT4 ... that Indian harmonium player Appa Jalgaonkar stopped singing due to puberty, subsequently picking up harmonium play?

  @Theleekycauldron: As you suggested — DaxServer (t · m · c) 14:13, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

  good to go, then :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 06:24, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Exact years of paralysis and death of wife

These are missing and sources need to be uncovered — DaxServer (t · m · c) 00:19, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Early life and education

The third sentence in the second paragraph is "Upon attaining puberty, his voice started breaking thus ending his possibility of becoming a vocalist." This is true only if the desired range is soprano - but there's nothing to indicate this in either the Dhrupad or Dhamar pages. There are many tenor and bass vocalists! Prisoner of Zenda (talk) 04:23, 13 February 2023 (UTC)