Talk:Ashfield, New South Wales

Untitled

Missing sections:

• Aboriginal culture
• Population statistics
• Local events

Other things needed:

• A lot of polishing.

Wanted photos

• Clock tower on the Peak Freen biscuit factory (now Bunnings Warehouse). Done
• Tower on Norman Self's Amesbury in Alt Street. Done
• St Vincent's Catholic Church.  Done

Sometime or other I intend to get a photo of Ashfield Park from Parramatta Rd but realistically we have more than enough photos now :) Crico 06:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Separate page for the Local Government Area

As per discussion at Talk:List of Sydney suburbs, I have created a separate page for the Municipality of Ashfield, the Local Government Area. -- Ianblair23 05:44, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Politics

Politically Ashfield has been a traditional stronghold of the Labor party. Since the late 1990s and especially after 2004 Local Government in Ashfield is experiencing a shift away from the Labor to smaller political entities such as the Greens and other miscellaneous Independents. Many residents argue that this derives from ratepayer dissatisfaction with unsympathetic highrise developments in the area, much of which has been done with the blessing of the Labor Party dominated Ashfield Council. The present political make up of the Ashfield Municipal Council is: Labor Party - 4 Greens - 3 Independents - 3 Liberal (conservative) Party - 1

First intentional use of a parachute in Australia

According to a plaque set in the ground, the park at the corner of Frederick and Church Streets (then known as the Ashfield Sports Ground or similar??) was the launching point of the first "deliberate", "intentional" use of a parachute in Australia. Presumably there had been unplanned or emergency use of parachutes prior to December 8, 1888, on which date J.T. Williams ascended 6000 feet in a balloon and jumped out on purpose. To celebrate the centenary of the achievement, an Australian parachuting champion repeated the jump, and the Ashfieldians put up the complicated plaque that can be seen today. - Juliannechat 5 April 2006

P. L. Travers

The author of five volumes of Mary Poppins stories lived in Ashfield while she was a schoolgirl, and her most famous character was briefly commemmorated there.

"In her long life, spent in London, the United States and Dublin, Travers kept her Australian origins hidden. But when she died in 1996, much of her Australian life was revealed."

-- Valerie Lawson, writing in the Sydney Morning Herald, March 13, 2004

"On July 28 vandals attacked the Poppins statue in Ashfield Park, leaving only the feet. The rest of the body lay on the ground, with much damage to the legs and umbrella. The bits are now in the council depot and will be repaired by a local craftsman."

-- Valerie Lawson, writing in the Sydney Morning Herald, August 9, 2005

The following information about "Travers" is from Valerie Lawson's Out Of The Sky She Came, Hodder 1999 (British title Mary Poppins She Wrote).

Travers was born Helen Lyndon Goff in Maryborough, QLD, on 9 August 1899, and spent her childhood there and in Bowral. In 1912 she became a boarder at Normanhurst Private Girls School in Ashfield. A few years later her mother rented a cottage at 17 Pembroke Street, Ashfield, so that she could once again live at home and her younger sisters could also attend Normanhurst. She chose her new name, Pamela Lyndon Travers, when she began work as a journeyman actress and journalist. After she left Australia in 1924 Travers divided her time between England, Ireland, and America and most of her readers did not know about her Australian past.

According to Lawson's research, "Lyndon was never, in her own mind, an Australian, always an Irish woman with a Scots mother." In addition to tracing the ways that the Mary Poppins stories used autobiographical material (e.g., Travers' father had presided over a bank failure!), Lawson thoroughly reviews all of Travers' writing, and her long involvement with Irish writers (AE, Yeats, etc.) and a succession of mystical teachers (Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Krishnamurti and others), and various intense friendships with both men and women. Lawson also analyses Travers' involvement with and complex reactions to the Disney treatment of Mary, which made her a wealthy woman. Travers protected her privacy in life but chose to sell moderately revealing letters and papers to Sydney's Mitchell Library.

During her lifetime Travers gave money for a statue of Mary Poppins to be erected in New York City's Central Park, but there were almost no other donations and the project had to be abandoned. (All of the preceding information is from Lawson. See the P. L. Travers topic for more Lawson links, including one about Lawson's dispute with New Yorker staff writer Caitlin Flanagan, whom Lawson alleges used Lawson's original Travers research without attribution, in a recent profile.) - Juliannechat 23 June 2006

Just drove past the Mary Poppins statue and it's back in place. - Juliannechat 30 September 2006

More on the Caitlin Flanagan issue: this link from Salon quotes Lawson (except not by name) and states that the Poppins article was Flanagan's last article for the New Yorker and that professionalism was likely an issue in the parting. http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2006/11/22/flanagan/index.html - Juliannechat 23 April 2009

Mei Quong Tart

More on the pioneering Sydney businessman Mei Quong Tart. Per CHIA, "While seen by the non-Chinese community as a leader of the Chinese the Chinese community was divided in their views and support of him." ("http://www.chia.chinesemuseum.com.au/biogs/CH00021b.htm") His former mansion (on Arthur Street) was mostly pulled down this summer, but a tower segment is being kept, to be incorporated into a new aged care facility named for him. There's also a bust of him near the railway station. Tart died of pleurisy contracted while recovering from a beating that was almost certainly a hate crime. - Juliannechat 5 April 2006

Population

Does the population of 40,000 refer to the municipality, rather than the suburb? Is it an error? Even a very dense placce would be hard pressed to have so many.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 06:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed! I've removed this incorrect figure. Anyone know the population then? --Alexxx1 ^{(talk/contribs)} 12:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I just searched at the ABS and got 20681 from http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@cpp.nsf/DetailsPage/SSC110762001?OpenDocument&tabname=Details&prodno=SSC11076&issue=2001&num=&view=&#Basic%20Community%20Profile 99of9 04:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Re-assessed to B - GA thoughts?

This article is a good level B now. I would be happy to take on the task of providing a full assessment and suggestions to reach GA if an editor/s wants to (a) read the document thoroughly looking particularly for choppy unencyclopaedic language, (b) check all references and make sure they follow this format:
<ref name="WEBSITE NAME">{{cite web | url = XXX.html | title = WEBPAGE NAME | publisher = PUBLISHER NAME | accessdate = YYYY-MM-DD }}</ref>,
(c) adjust fixed images so that they don't overlap the gallery, and (d) post a request for that assessment directly to my talk page. Your call if you are interested.--VS ^talk 14:18, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

My assessment following Crico's request

I have been asked to provide an assessment of the article as of today’s date.

Firstly I note that the main editor for some weeks has been Crico and he should be commended for his determination.

I do not mean to be harsh or discourteous in any way, thus from my perspective (I do tend to be a fairly hard marker) I note that the article has adjusted substantially and positively over the past few weeks. It is much closer to being assessable as a GA article but rather than do that at this stage I would rather make the following suggestions for improvement and then invite editors to re-submit when the article is a good deal closer.

Hopefully without appearing rude (and I make this point only because one of the editors mentioned that s/he was trying to gain the same status as Summer Hill) I suggest that you not use the Summer Hill article which IMHO is reaching the stage where a reassessment as to whether it is still GA, may be required.

In terms of this article - there is no reason why it could not make FA status. Towards that end editors should use as a benchmark Canberra which is FA but hope to get it up to at least Riverina which is a GA. I would be more than happy to follow this process through to that stage if you are of a mind to continue to seek my input.

Towards that end my suggestions are:

1. As a general comment we must remember that the article is available to be read across the whole of the Wiki world. From this perspective words and abbreviations that provide reference should be both expanded and wiki-linked. For example in the second sentence the word kms should be kilometres Done.
2. Also wiki-link words such as Federation Done, Victorian Done, supermarket Done, light industry Done, Greens Done, Liberal Done, etc etc as this will help the reader to understand about this material if they need to.
3. Also in the lead the sentence that reads These days, the suburb is known for being highly multicultural with a particularly strong Chinese community needs rewriting with removal of the word known Done. Ashfield may be multicultural etc but it is not known for that fact – perhaps just writing The suburb is highly multicultural with a particularly strong Chinese community (also is this fact referenced – perhaps elsewhere in the document?) – this fact should also receive an inline citation.
4. Again in the lead the sentence remove the bracketed un-encyclopaedic comment about Australian parlance and simply wiki-link apartment – which does explain that apartment means flat in the commonwealth countries. Done
5. Car yards are what – are they car parks, or car dealerships, or wrecking yards (yes of course I know but for the rest of the wiki community?) Done
6. The history section within 6 short paragraphs moves from 1788 to 2005. The whole section needs to be split into 3 or 4 subsections so the readers (and future editors) are drawn to the correct place for their consideration. Done
7. Para’s 2, 3, 4, & 6 of that section make various strong Point of View assertions, but none of them are given inline citations. Done
8. "By 1790, a road had been built etc – a few words later becomes a rough track. Please write this up as one fact or the other. Done
9. Have a look at the sub-headings being used. For example the heading "Residents" probably should be Demographics and "Schools" will probably be better as Education. Done
10. The page has so many notable residents I suggest that you open up a new article titled Notable Residents of Ashfield, New South Wales and then refer back to that one (if you are interested in how this is done have a look at either Canberra or Riverina). Done
11. Even if you do not do set up a new page, all notable residents (by definition) deserve their own wiki-link (even if that means they are red-linked). For example Augustus Alt, Frederick Clissold etc. Done
12. Also this section needs to be given some symmetry – that is each person should be set up in the same way, something like, bullet point, name, birth./death, why they were famous – at the moment the names and details are choppy and untidy. Done
13. The first 2 or 3 paragraphs under Transport provide several Point of View statements and statements of fact which all need an inline citation. Done
14. The article states, "In 1842, rival landowner Robert Campbell …" why is he a rival landowner? Done He was a rival in the sense that he was the other major landowner in the area at the time and his building of the Methodist Church was a direct response to Underwood's building of the Anglican church. However, since I don't really want go into that in the article, I've changed it to neighbouring landowner.Crico 23:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
15. Remove the bolding in the prose under Landmarks.
16. The content under Churches is desperately in need of some inline citation. Done
17. The sub-heading Schools (particularly the first paragraph) needs to be rewritten to remove most of the bracketing – which should be turned into part of the prose.
18. Pamela Travers is mention again in this section and she is also in the notable residents section (which is fine) but the name changes between the sections.
19. Rose Payton sounds important and should be wiki-linked (even if that turns her into a redlink) Doneremoved
20. Remove the words, "For federal elections, " that starts the paragraph under Politics as it is a tautology in relation to the next part of the sentence. Done
21. Bolding within the sub-section of Sport and Recreation needs to be removed.
22. That sub-heading is in itself incorrect and should be adjusted to follow the headings guidelines for wiki. Done
23. The final paragraph needs to gain inline citations in various places.
24. There are quite a few areas of un-encyclopaedic language, two examples are:

• The attached table shows that when you just look at the polling booths in the suburb of Ashfield, Labor has consistently returned over 65% of the two-party preferred vote in recent years.
• The Presbyterians were the next cab off the rank  Done

I will be happy to reassess directly against the GA criteria - however you should look carefully at the two examples I gave at the top of this critique to see what else could be expanded and fixed. I understand this is a lot of work – but a GA article is a feather in your cap so keep going. Please let me know on my talk page when you finish or if you have any questions. --VS ^talk 11:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Further to the above

I note overnight that eyedubya is assisting - thank you. Can I suggest that a good way to inform other editors that areas in the list above have been adjusted is to use the template {{done}} which provides an image like this  Done. You can add these throughout the list as often as you like. I have added the first one on behalf of one of eyedubya's changes. Cheers!--VS ^talk 21:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Recent events

I've started to edit this section for NPOV, and V reasons. I'm not sure why the Brescia fire is in there - is it related to the inter-ethnic violence in Sydney? If so, then more references are needed than the one cited. If it isn't related, then it should be in a separate paragraph. While I've tried to sort out opinion from fact wrt the gang rapes section (i.e. matters of causality wrt Cronulla riots were the opinion of Baird, who is a member of the right-wing Liberal party, and is not scientific fact), I'm sure there is more that could be done.Eyedubya 23:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, the fire has no connection to the other events. Secondly, I don't really see the need for either the gang rapes or the fire to be in the article but someone else did so I've left it. If someone else deletes the whole section, I won't be upset. Because VS suggested putting subheads in the history section, I thought I'd better expand it slightly so it wasn't just one sentence but I did it in a clumsy way and your edit is better. As a resident of Ashfield, I saw no evidence of rioting at the time. The wiki article on the Cronulla riots claims it spilled over into Ashfield. I confess I hadn't checked the sources in that article. Finally, re: the politics, rightly or wrongly people who are anti-immigrant do use the rapes as justification for their views. It isn't a valid justification but when people like Alan Jones push the connection, it sticks in people's minds and it was a contributing factor to the Cronulla riots. The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to delete the whole section. Crico 01:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Presumably this is an issue of notability? If the post-Cronulla rioting in Ashfield is documented in reliable sources, then maybe it qualifies for inclusion somewhere in WP, along with any notable resistance or other kinds of community/political activity associated with it. However, whether or not the gang rapes qualify for a mention in this particular article is another matter - rapes occur everywhere, though most of the time they wouldn't qualify for a mention in an article about a suburb. Perhaps they should be moved to an article on gang rapes in Australia, which could then incorporate the stuff on the 'Sydney gang rapes'. Its like the Cronulla riots - that piece could be a section in an article on 'beachside conflict in Australia', b/c its a phenomenon with a long history.Eyedubya 03:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have checked the state of the article first! No worries.Eyedubya 03:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Amesbury or Anesbury?

I have reverted the spelling of this building to Amesbury. There does seem to be some confusion over the spelling but the more reliable sources (in my view) use Amesbury:

• Three documents from Ashfield Council [1] [2] [3]
• The NSW Heritage OFfice Register [4]
• The Royal Australian Historical Society's profile of Norman Selfe (builder of Amesbury) [5]

References to Anesbury include:

• Aussie Heritage [6]
• Picture Australia [7]

Major redesign

I gave this article a big makeover today. It seemed way too image-heavy, with lots of problems like bunched-up edit links, overlapping floats, and far too much on the right-hand-side. I've tried to stagger images, replace galleries with single images, fix up the edit links, kill some unencyclopedic language, and some other related and unrelated stuff. Do tell me what you think! — Werdna • talk 03:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ashfield, New South Wales/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: LibStar (talk · contribs) 04:37, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Phlsph7 (talk · contribs) 08:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello LibStar and thanks for your improvements of this article. However, despite the improvements, the article fails criterion 2b since there are too many unreferenced paragraphs and and some whole sections lack references. Examples are the section "Commercial area", the subsection "Notable residents", and the paragraphs starting with "Ashfield has three primary schools" and "For federal elections, Ashfield is part of the". According to criterion 2b, these passages require inline citations "no later than the end of the paragraph". I suggest that you add all the relevant references before a renomination.

A few other observations

• WP:EARWIG did not spot any copyright problems
• there had even be a public school operating replace "be" with "been".
• It produced a number of notable students including Pamela Travers (author of Mary Poppins) and tennis champion Daphne Akhurst. There were a number of other private schools reformulate to avoid repeating "a number of"
• The Wesley Private Hospital in Frederick Street is a well established replace "well established" with "well-established"
• from Ashfield council's heritage guide should "council" be uppercase?
• is located at the South Western corner of the property, replace "South Western" with "southwestern"
• in support of a new 106 acre reserve replace "106 acre" with "106-acre"
  • similar for 50 metre pool and 25 metre pool later
• who lived nearby between 1918—1924 replace "1918—1924" with "1918 and 1924"
• had a higher than average number replace "higher than average" with "higher-than-average"
• since the 2016 merger to the Inner West Council replace "to" with "with"
• (since the 2016 merger to the Inner West Council, it has been known as 'speaker series') I don't think this should be in italics
• This included the funding of an artist-in-residence program, who is based replace "who" with "which" or reformulate to to make clear that the second clause is about the artist and not about the program
• The current artist is the Refugee Art Project and New Moon Collective. I assume it should be "artists are" rather than "artist is"
• Ashfield also holds a cycling milestone when it hosted this may have to be reformulated to avoid the clash in tense: Ashfield holds ... when it hosted

Phlsph7 (talk) 08:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.