Talk:Attacks on Serbs during the Serbian–Ottoman Wars (1876–1878)

Biased article

It starts off with "the liberation of Nish"... This isn't right. Nish witnessed the fall of one oppressive governance (Ottomans) and the rise of another (Serbs). There is no liberation. Right after the takeover by the Serbs the Albanian population got killed and expelled so that Nish looks like a Serbian city. There is no liberation. Also, this article only has Stanislav Krakov's imagination as reference. Ironically, he doesn't get mentioned in the article. I highly doubt the existence of this "massacre" as long as there is no second source. Krakov was Serbian officer, journalist, writer and film director. And this article is so precise and exact that I believe Krakov (the writer and film director) made this story up. --Tëfcí (talk) 00:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Liberation from the Ottoman Empire. The preciseness obiously come from first-hand accounts. Zarija R. Popović (1900). Pred Kosovom: beleške iz doba 1874-1878 godine. Drž. štamp. Kralj. Srbije. Панађуриште беше центар арнаутских напада. Дођоше пет Арнаута пред врата Јованове куће и стадоше лупати.; Brastvo. Društvo sv. Save. 1928. Али је напад поглавито био управљен на Панађуриште, а у Панађуришту на кућу Јована Ђаковца.;Brastvo. Vol. 24–26. Društvo sv. Save. 1930. После неколико дана је у Приштини настала сеча Срба од Арнаута Малесораца којих је био пун град. Нарочито је био напад у махали Панађуришту на кућу непокорног Јована Ђаковца пушкара.--Zoupan 01:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

The people of Nish (Albanians and Serbians) were not liberated. The few Serbs tolerated the presence of their army and the Albanians had nothing to say because they got massacred. Therefore, no liberation. And you know very well that first-hand accounts can also be lies and you must have other point of views and sources to prove whether something is right or wrong. Obviously. --Tëfcí (talk) 01:35, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Other views - you are free to add these. If your problem is with the wording "liberation of Niš", then don't tag the article, but the sentence. Ottoman Serbs were without a doubt victims of Ottoman and Albanian violence, though your comments suggest otherwise.--Zoupan 02:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Dude, how can I add other views to an imaginary event?! Do you even think before you speak. And as for the deletion of this page, it is going to happen. You're the reason people think the content at Wikipedia is full of mistakes by referencing a notorious Serbian fairy tale writer and to expect no opposition whatsoever. --Tëfcí (talk) 02:33, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

It was you who brought up "other point of views". Thank you for your kind words. Milan Budisavljević; Paja Adamov Marković; Dragutin J. Ilić (1899). Brankovo kolo za zabavu, pouku i književnost. Пожари Приштевачки за Приштевце су мале епохе. Али догађај 26. јануара 1878. године остаће крвавим словима записан на лнетоии- ма историје града Приштине. (... But the event of 26 January 1878 remains written with bloody letters in the history of Pristina).--Zoupan 04:44, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

On second thought, it would perhaps be best to merge events like these into Attacks on Serbs in the Serbian–Ottoman War (1876–78) (as per Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars).--Zoupan 05:55, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Saint Sava society

The Wikipedia article says it itself: "The society worked for dissemination of Serbian propaganda in the region of Macedonia and Old Serbia." Such sources can not be used on Wikipedia.Alltan (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Inquiring on Possible Expansion

I am writing this message on the TP to ask any interested editors if they would be able to expand this article in the near future with reliable high-quality sources. As it stands, the article is severely lacking in terms of information on specific attacks and events, and it does not include any figures whatsoever. There is also a general lack of sources that actually mention the attacks. Currently, the information on the article fits into either one of the two following articles - Expulsion of the Albanians, 1877–1878, or Serbian–Ottoman Wars (1876–1878). The latter might be more suitable, although I suppose different parts can go into both.

If this article is not expanded upon in the near future, the most sensible step would be to propose it for deletion. The article in its current state does not require an article of its own. Extreme caution must be taken when creating or expanding on articles like these, particularly when they are linked to other Wikipedia articles, as the content is very sensitive. This article has been linked on other Wikipedia articles even though it barely makes any references to actual attacks on a widespread scale, and this can paint ahistorical, non-NPOV and inaccurate images for readers. Botushali (talk) 01:16, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

If not expanded, it's a valid ground for a deletion. The article fails to display certain and precise testimonies and sources regarding these attacks and, as it's been mentioned by Botushali, due to the circumstance that this article is used to mischaracterize historical events or to create the vision of such events, it's time to start looking for reliable RS regarding this field. It is, however, not my field of expertise; therefore, I won't be searching for it. AlexBachmann (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Deleting the article seems like a stretch; merging it with 1901 massacres of Serbs could be a more effective solution. --Azor (talk). 22:55, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think this article would fit such a merge considering the fact that it's centred on the years 1876-1878. Relevant content from this page can definitely be added to a new 'background' section in the 1901 massacres of Serbs article, although the information can also be redistributed to Serbian-Ottoman Wars (1876-1878), for example. Botushali (talk) 04:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

The 1901 massacre and these 1876-1878 attacks cover the same time period, but I can not see how they're leading cause of one another. Combining them into a broader article on violence against Serbs in the late-Ottoman era makes more sense. It addresses the concerns raised here more comprehensively. As you can tell, the time gap between those two atrocities are just ∼20 years. --Azor (talk). 09:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, I was going to suggest just creating a background subsection on that article and including much of the content from here. However, is your suggestion to merge the article into a broader article that can be termed ‘Violence against Serbs during the late Ottoman Era’?

For now, I wouldn’t oppose such a merge - it seems like a good idea. Both articles that are to be merged are severely lacking in sources and content, which is concerning considering that they’re meant to focus on actual attacks and massacres. Merging them into the above would give a much more comprehensive scope to the article that may help editors flesh it out in the future with more sources. It can include content on violence perpetrated against Serbs by Ottomans and non-Ottoman groups. Botushali (talk) 14:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

You make a valid point, Botushali. I do agree that these articles lack a backbone. If you or other editors are in favor of a background section instead, providing details on the correlation between those atrocities and their historical context, I might also lean towards supporting that. However, as it stands, I lean towards favoring a merge. Before I delve further into the sources, I'll wait to see if other editors have any insights to share. --Azor (talk). 21:12, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

For now, I'm more in favour of a merge for both articles. I don't know if it's a controversial move, but if it encounters resistance, it'd probably need a Merge Proposal. @AlexBachmann, what do you think? You have also been involved in this discussion to some extent. Botushali (talk) 01:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I somehow did not noticed that you pinged me, Botushali. I'll agree to merge the articles for now, however, it is clear, that under the circumstances more sources ought to be found to sustain the content. AlexBachmann (talk) 22:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)