Talk:Australian football at the 1956 Summer Olympics

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Ray Gabelich-VAFA vs. VFL&VFA 1956 Olympic Games.jpeg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Good article nom

Hi all, I've just put the page up for good article nomination, perhaps a year later than I should've, but I'd like to have this properly 'finished off' and recognised for its completeness. You can see my significant rewrite here (+30,000 bytes) and since then I have made minor improvements to the layout and information. Finding free images is a bit of a task given it occurred just after the non-copyright period in Australia, but I endeavour to keep searching. Thanks. Gibbsy^spin 03:04, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Good work. I've made a few small edits, but am concerned about use of the term "native sport". It's not used in the article Demonstration sport, nor is it mentioned in any source used in the article, so far as I can see. I'm an old bloke who actually went to the Melbourne Games. I was aware of Aussie Rules being a Demo sport in Melbourne. I've been a keen follower of the Games ever since, and have never seen a demonstration sport described as a native sport. Do you have a source for its use? Would "national sport" be a better description? HiLo48 (talk) 08:12, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks HiLo. I've had a look around to see where that term might have come from, and it appears to be a hangover from the original article which I left in as I thought it made sense. Happy for you to make whatever further changes you deem necessary. Gibbsy^spin 08:07, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Seems that the (inappropriate and awkward) term "native" has come from an unsuccessful attempt to express the intention within what seems to be a standard and non-controversial stipulated condition of "demonstration sports" -- namely, one of them must be a "national sport", and the other must be a "foreign sport" (see, for instance, [1]) -- and, therefore, the simple, and appropriate substitution would be to use "national', and just say, "The rules stated that the hosts must organise both a "national" game and a sport "foreign" to the organising country …"; and, of course, on the basis of it being a "national sport" (or not), one can strongly argue that, at the time, the sport was known exclusively as "Australian Rules" football.Lindsay658 (talk) 08:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Lindsay658. Some good research there. There's a couple of other uses of "native" in the article. They can be easily fixed. It's worth noting that we do have the matching article Baseball at the 1956 Summer Olympics. It's not big, but good enough. HiLo48 (talk) 09:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Just changed all uses of native to "national", and all uses of foreign to "foreign" (and, also, added a "See also" link to the baseball article, and vice versa). Lindsay658 (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

"Rules"

Given that the VFL and the VFA and the VAFA not only conducted their relative regular-season competitions under different rules, but, also, used different match footballs, I am supposing that, given it was a VAFA field umpire, that VAFA rules obtained. However, I have been unable to locate any mention of the rules under which the match was contested; and, furthermore, there seems to be no mention of the football used in the match (perhaps somebody has knowledge of advertorial bragging in 1957 advertisements?). Lindsay658 (talk) 23:13, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Australian football at the 1956 Summer Olympics/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sportsfan77777 (talk · contribs) 20:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I'll review this strange event. At first glance, it looks like it's in good shape. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• Expand the lead

   Done

• Talk about the outcome of the match, who participated, and the aftermath

   Done

• Explain the participants were restricted to amateurs, in accordance with Olympic rules.

   Done

• State that Australian rules football has never been a part of any other Olympics

   Done

• For the most part, you shouldn't need citations in the lead. (They should be in the main part of the article, if needed.)

   Done

History

• the Games of the XVI Olympiad ===>>> the 1956 Summer Olympics (then known as the Games of the XVI Olympiad)

   Done

• Australian football ===>>> Australian rules football

   Done

• Related to the above point, even then, it was known as "Australian rules football", right?

   Done – The sport is officially "Australian football", and although terms do vary when referring to the sport throughout history, the official programme shows that it was referred to as Australian football at the 1956 Games

• southern states of Australia <<<=== if it's just Victoria and South Australia, then just state that?

   Done – I have changed to "western and southern states" as it was WA, SA, VIC and TAS where the game had popularity.

• The AAFC had an affiliation with the Australian Olympic Committee (AOC) and this would prove vital as discussions progressed. <<<===Cite this.

   Done – Removed, couldn't find a ref.

• all competitors would not be playing football for money at the time of the tournament ===>>> none of the competitors would be playing football for money at the time of the tournament

   Done

• AOC was still yet ===>>> AOC had still yet

   Done

• The choice of "foreign" sport remained undecided until baseball was chosen later in the week. ===>>> Baseball was chosen as the "foreign" sport later in the week.

   Done

Format

• The Sporting Globe <<<=== Italicize

   Done

• the VFL conspired to present ===>>> the VFL had planned to present

   Done

• The above point never happened?

   Done – Expanded that sentence to confirm the point, I'll try and find another ref.

• subsequently confirmed ===>>> was subsequently confirmed

   Done

• You don't state what the VFA is.

   Done No longer necessary now that I have reworked the lead to include what the VFA is.

• State the abbreviation for the Victorian Amateur Football Association in parentheses.

   Done Again, the full name and abbreviation for the VAFA is now included in the lead hence the change in this section.

Squads

• Each paragraph in the VFL/VFA Combined Team section should end with a citation.

   Done – A number of new refs found.

• The headline act was arguably ===>>> One of the headline players was

   Done

• Coincidentally <<<=== Is this really a coincidence? They wouldn't be able to be selected if this wasn't true, right?

   Done – Removed the 'coincidentally' at the start, but the sentence was more a comment on the fact that many Combined Team players would have been familiar with their opponents having been players in the VAFA previously.

Lead-up

• This can combined into one paragraph.

   Done

• Is the first sentence backed by any of the sources?

   Done Reworded and sourced.

• (won by the VAFA), <<<=== that comma is not needed

   Done

• The journalists' predictions were realised: Anderson was one of the best on the ground, kicking three goals for a winning team. <<<=== You can mention this later on when talk about the result.

   Done – Moved some of that sentence to the 'Match' section in the "Leading the way on the scoreboard..." sentence.

Selected teams

• Okay.

   Done

Match

• , and this early dominance proved pivotal to the final result. ===>>> . After this early dominance, the VAFA never came close to relinquishing their lead, maintaining a margin of at least <the smallest-margin> for the rest of the game.

   Done – Restructured the sentence but it's impossible to know what the smallest margin mid-game was as we only have the quarter-by-quarter results and not a full scoring history, hence I just used the term "healthy margin"; this can be changed if you like.

• The journalists' predictions were realised: Anderson was one of the best on the ground, kicking three goals for a winning team. <<<=== Some rephrasing of this goes here, after the Hibbins sentence.

   Done – See 'Lead-up' section review for where I moved it to.

Aftermath

• he played off in three Grand Finals <<<=== Is "off" the right word here?

   Done – Removed 'off' as it's unnecessary, thanks.

• Cite the "VAFA players recruited to VFL" section

   Done – Found multiple refs.

• The Shinboners <<<=== too informal, just North Melbourne

   Done

• Cite the "VFL/AFL players's future careers" section

   Done – Found multiple refs.

• Cite "Box Hill's Dave Plunkett was named at centre half-forward in the club's "Greatest Ever Team", announced in 2000, after a career spanning 115 games and 91 goals."

   Done – Found ref.

• Clarify what was the state of TV broadcasting of football before the match? If there was no broadcasting before, this is a big point.

   Done – Added a bit at the end of the last sentence stating that this was the first time Australian football would be broadcast.

Overall

• Main points: Expand the lead, some parts are not cited, and say what the VFA is.

   Done

• Everything else is minor.

   Done

Placing on hold! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Sportsfan77777 – my laptop has been getting repaired the last fortnight hence I've only been able to get to this now. Will start going through your suggestions. Cheers Gibbsy^spin 06:58, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

All done for now Sportsfan77777, now to search for some refs, and then hopefully we get to the next step of approval! Thanks, Gibbsy^spin 08:41, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Status query

Sportsfan77777, Gibbsy, where does this nomination stand? It's been on hold for over two months, and the nominator hasn't edited it or posted here for over eight weeks, despite many "pending" replies above. What is left to be done, and how soon can it be completed? If it can't be soon, perhaps it's time to close the nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

User:BlueMoonset – thanks for the reminder. I have just finished going through and making all requested changes that were pending (a.k.a. finding about 15 new references to complete the article). I think this should be fine to progress to the final review stage now. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs doing. I'm really keen to see this come to fruition :) Thanks, Gibbsy^spin 00:21, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Gibbsyspin, there are still a few paragraphs that don't end in citations. (Though, I think the existing references may cover them. They just need to be moved or duplicated.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 02:42, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

For the VFA, I wanted you to explain what the league was. (Back then, the VFA was to the VFL what the VFL is to the AFL today, right? The VFL is explained when it is introduced, but the VFA is not.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 02:42, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks – I've added the following sentence about the VFA: The VFA, a competing semi-professional league also headquartered in Melbourne, was waning in popularity during the 1950s but still regularly featured matches of a high quality. I've also made sure that every paragraph ends in a citation, either by finding new references or reusing existing ones. Happy to hopefully progress to the next step of the GA review now! Thanks, Gibbsy^spin 00:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay, passed! It was in pretty good shape from the start. I was just waiting for those last few points. Good work! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:17, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Woohoo! Thanks for your review. Gibbsy^spin 01:20, 1 February 2021 (UTC)