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Proposed split
edit
StaleThe article states that three different women were known by the name Avvaiyar. If this is true, there should be three separate articles on these three people. utcursch | talk 19:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Utcursch: I stumbled into this article as I searched for an article on one of the most cherished poetess of the Sangam literature: Auvai or Avvai (= Avvaiyar). My first impression, after sorrow seeing the poor state this article is in, was same as yours. This should be three articles. What titles would you suggest? I do not think Avvaiyar I, II etc makes sense, because we need multiple RS to support such sequencing. I haven't seen one so far (but am open to reviewing links if someone would offer a few). Avvai and Avvaiyar is a proper name, relatively common in history. We need to be careful. One possibility is to clarify with brackets. For example, Avvaiyar (Sangam literature), etc. I am open to suggestions. For sources, see 1, 2 (page 295), etc Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 02:17, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
- Avvaiyar (Sangam literature) looks good. For others, something like Avvaiyar (Chola period), Avvaiyar (contemporary of XYZ) or Avvaiyar (writer of XYZ) may be used. utcursch | talk 17:23, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
- We had a similar discussion some time ago at Nakkirar II: Talk:Nakkirar II § Requested move 5 September 2018. Perhaps I had a less clarity then. Should we all agree with this new method, we need to change the titles of those articles, too. Rasnaboy (talk) 07:42, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Gonnym comments were spot on in Talk:Nakkirar II § Requested move 5 September 2018 RfC. We can't be making up names or implying a chronology by numbering. We must stick with names as published in "sources (academic ones)" as Gonnym said there (WP:RS). Further, we do not need 6 articles (or any) on 6 personalities if and when none have peer-reviewed sources. If one or two good quality sources exist for an ancient or medieval Tamil poet or poetess or author with information about their work, it is enough to mention both that author plus that work in one article.
- The so-called Nakkirar II article hardly has any cites, this large para in there cites Robinson, who does not mention Nakkirar II or Nakkirar by name. All it mentions is an indirect "Though you show us your frontal eye, a fault is a fault" on page 21, in a legendary account about Valluvar. That mythical Valluvar legend, except for some WP:Fringe, has been dismissed by all mainstream scholars. That blog-like unsourced section in "Nakkirar II" was tagged 2-years ago. Without that section, there isn't any notable substance in that article, content that is properly sourced (academic ones). The lead para has only one good full source (David Shulman) for the alleged "Nakkirar II". But, Shulman does not use either Nakkirar or Nakkirar II! The name he uses is Nakkīraṉãr on page 28 (line 11 from top), 61–62, etc. So, if you all had paid attention to Gonnym's advice, the title would match the spelling in the Shulman source and all unsourced blog would be gone by now. (ps) if there are alt spellings for a particular poet or poetess, verifiable in RS, then these spellings should be mentioned in the article or relevant section along with cites to those RS. – Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:07, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- In that same RfC, this comment by Rasnaboy mentions that there are at least seven Avvaiyar. The first thing we need to do is to locate quality sources (academic ones) for seven or three or whatever number. If you can't find any source(s), forget separate articles (or any). We should aim for quality articles that summarize peer-reviewed sources, not unsourced blogs. Utcursch: I like Avvaiyar (Chola period) title (Here is a good source for her; there are a few more). Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:58, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
- Gonnym comments were spot on in Talk:Nakkirar II § Requested move 5 September 2018 RfC. We can't be making up names or implying a chronology by numbering. We must stick with names as published in "sources (academic ones)" as Gonnym said there (WP:RS). Further, we do not need 6 articles (or any) on 6 personalities if and when none have peer-reviewed sources. If one or two good quality sources exist for an ancient or medieval Tamil poet or poetess or author with information about their work, it is enough to mention both that author plus that work in one article.
Done. Given that this discussion has been inactive for several years I've boldly gone ahead and completed the split. I've tried to make split the information up accurately, but there seems to be a great deal of confusion about who is who both in this page and in other resources. Please review my work and feel free to correct my mistakes! pburka (talk) 20:17, 30 April 2023 (UTC)