Talk:Bambie Thug

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 19:54, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that Irish Eurovision hopeful Bambie Thug describes their musical genre as "ouija pop"? Source: https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/music/queer-and-now/queer-now-welcome-to-bambie-thugs-witchy-soundscape/
  • ALT1: ... that Ireland's Eurovision entrant for 2024, Bambie Thug has been filled with witchiness? Source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/artsandculture/arid-41318692.html
  • ALT2: ... that Irish broadcaster Raidió Teilifís Éireann will "send the witch" to the Eurovision in May? Source: (same source)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Lake Fenwick
  • Comment: Both moved to mainspace from Draft (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bambie_thug&action=history) AND created as new (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bambie_Thug&action=history) and then merged. Happy to replace "Eurovision" with "Eurovision Song Contest".

Created by EqualGenie (talk), Nascar9919 (talk), IvanScrooge98 (talk), CeolAnGhra (talk), and Bogger (talk). Nominated by Bogger (talk) at 02:25, 27 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Bambie Thug; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• On it. — LlywelynII 12:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  New enough at time of submission; well long enough [9.6k chars.]; I'm not sure "Gay Times" counts as an unbiased WP:RS generally but presumably they're trustworthy enough with a direct quote from the artist using that title. QPQ was unclear which ALT was really intended (ALT1 or ALT2) but that's not disprobative for this. Minimal copyvio per Earwig, just things given as direct quotes. (Other editors may trim that down in the future as needless but no rules violation.) Hook has correct pronoun per article preference, for those who might wince at singular they. No image to review. — LlywelynII 14:46, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2024

Bambie thugs real name is (Redacted). 193.120.213.0 (talk) 19:38, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

While being indifferent to the change proposed by the IP, this is a source:

https://www.southernstar.ie/life/bambie-thug-does-macroom-proud-4283084 Marbod Egerius (talk) 07:56, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Per MOS:DEADNAME we do not include the former names of trans people unless they were notable under them - see Caitlyn Jenner as an example. Bambie was not, so there is no scope for inclusion. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 19:50, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Subject name

In relation to the above edit request, how sure are we that Bambie Thug's non-stage name is Cuntry Ray Robinson? Currently the article cites a blog, which likely wouldn't pass WP:RS. I know there's sources published after this article was created that state this, for example the Irish Independent, but I can't seem to find any reliable sources published prior to 24 January 2024 that mention it.

Only reason I'm wary is because of citogenesis, where we've published something as a fact, and other reliable sources have therefore republished it as a fact. Is there a reliable source that I'm missing that states this, published prior to the creation of our article? Sideswipe9th (talk) 20:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

For what it’s worth I don’t think this is a case of citogenesis, they’re credited in their Eurovision song under that name, and in a tweet they mention it. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 21:18, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of changing the name to Bambie Ray Robinson, which is the singer's real name according to this RTÉ article. If "Cuntry Ray Robinson" is an actual alias, that would need a WP:RELIABLE source and I have been unable to find one. 1857a (talk) 05:16, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Eurovision song credit and a tweet is not exactly a reliable source 109.77.150.133 (talk) 17:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm aware. This is merely circumstantial evidence to back up that it's not citogenesis. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 09:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Name

Restarting the "real name" discussion as The Southern Star cites Thug's real name as (Redacted). Perhaps this is not relevant evidence, but a number of songs found online credited to Thug also cite an (Redacted) in its songwriting credits (Ex. 1, Ex. 2, Ex. 3) Leaving this up for discussion in regards to inclusion in the article. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 04:16, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

As the subject is non-binary and has specifically changed their name, this falls under WP:DEADNAME. This guideline says; In the case of a living transgender or non-binary person, their birth name or former name (professional name, stage name, or pseudonym) should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under that name. Bambie was not notable under that name (song credits under a name do not convey notability, see Sophie (musician) for a similar example) and it should not be included. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 09:09, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

But how do you distinguish between a dead name and a real name disguised by a stage persona? Are there any sources confirming this as a dead name or are you just assuming, because I have seen none? I would be more sympathetic if Thug was not still credited as a songwriter under this name. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 15:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

They confirmed in an interview last year that they had came out as non-binary and changed their name to Bambie at 27. And in another interview, they talk about changing their name. It feels like a pretty routine calculation to assume that when someone comes out as non-binary and changes their name, that name is now a deadname, former name, whatever terminology you so pick - both are covered under MOS:DEADNAME. I would be more sympathetic if Thug was not still credited as a songwriter under this name. - they're listed under this name on three old releases that you've highlighted. They're not credited as thus on their recent EP, or the EP before that, or the EP before that, nor to the best of my knowledge any of the other singles. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 18:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

4 years compared to 27. At what stage does a change take effect? Was the change legal or purely for stage purposes? In regards fame, the article above quotes “I’d been a songwriter and in the industry for a while before I birthed Bambie Thug,” which suggests that bambie thug is merely a stage persona no different to slim ahady 2A02:8084:C83:2300:453B:F138:D217:2570 (talk) 14:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

The difference being that Eminem did not legally change his name to Slim Shady, whereas Bambie changed their name from whatever it was prior to Bambie. As for the thing on the amount of years one needs to be known as something.. does it really matter? Elliot Page only came out four years ago and is still referred to by his current name on Wikipedia. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 15:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Is there any source for them legally changing their name? In the article you have linked yourself, they write "With my other name", indicating that they still consider it also as their name 2A02:AA16:587F:CD80:3503:CCAE:AF3:626D (talk) 19:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

There is, in fact one even confirming their previous name to be a deadname, but it's paywalled. I can post the text if you'd like. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 14:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I could read it here https://archive.fo/yN5sa 2A02:AA16:587F:CD80:3503:CCAE:AF3:626D (talk) 18:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

No comment on the previous name, but their Instagram and Twitter profiles say "Cuntry Ray Robinson" not Bambie. Should be acceptable per WP:ABOUTSELF. Charcoal feather (talk) 23:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth, this article (from one of Ireland's main newspapers, so a very reliable source) directly says "Bambie Thug is a stage name; Bambie Ray Robinson is now the real-life name." ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 07:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Strange. I quess we stick with Bambie then. Charcoal feather (talk) 16:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

References

I dont understand, how many those Bambies are? Or this is one person? If so why it is written "they"? That is plural form, not singular. We should obey the rules of english grammar, so the people for whom english is not a first language will understand.

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2024

Bambi Thug hasn't won Eurovision 2024, that's false information. 78.17.115.224 (talk) 10:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 10:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Presumably it's the "Critical reception after Eurovision 2024 victory" heading, which should be changed to "Critical reception after Eurosong 2024 victory". Similar changes are also needed in the subsequent paragraph. 92.239.96.120 (talk) 15:44, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

That was only added today, presumably in good faith by an editor who didn’t know about Eurosong being a national final. I’ve restored the original version. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 15:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Name throughout article.

Should the article state "Thug" instead of "Robinson" throughout the article, such as this section:

Robinson was born in Macroom, County Cork, on 6 March 1993, to a Swedish father from Stockholm and a mother from Cork, and has three sisters. [...] They then moved to London to attend the Urdang Academy after Urdang gave Robinson a partial scholarship. However, Robinson broke their arm during their time in college, switching to study musical theatre.

be changed to

Thug was born in Macroom, County Cork, on 6 March 1993, to a Swedish father from Stockholm and a mother from Cork, and has three sisters. [...] They then moved to London to attend the Urdang Academy after Urdang gave Thug a partial scholarship. However, Thug broke their arm during their time in college, switching to study musical theatre.

This would be similar to how (e.g.) Lady Gaga's page mentions her as "Gaga", not "Germanotta" throughout her article.
-- ^Tattooed_Leprechaun｜^🗣️💬 22:58, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The general principle would be "no" as the rule is to use the name form relevant to the time period under discussion in a particular part of a biographical article, per MOS: "A person named in an article of which they are not the subject should be referred to by the name they used at the time being described. For example, Pope John Paul I was known as Albino Luciani before he was elevated to the papacy, so material about the time before he became pope should use that name. In some cases, it is helpful to the reader to clarify, e.g., Albino Luciani (later to become Pope John Paul I). The principle of avoiding anachronistic naming is also usually employed in the subject's own biography (including that of John Paul :I), especially when the article is no longer a short stub." and "In cases where the name changed, the birth name may be given in the lead as well, if relevant." However there is complicated when a deadname is involved, "If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page ..., even in quotations, even if reliable sourcing exists." but this case is different again, with both a current legal name and a current "commonly known as" name. My own assessment would be that "Robinson" is appropriate in places, and the full "Bambie Thug" elsewhere. SeoR (talk) 23:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@SeoR: thank you for clarifying. Then Lady Gaga and Katy Perry's articles should technically use "Germanotta" and "Hudson" respectively through their articles? I'm just a little confused why it's OK for other people but not Bambi Thug, or vice versa. -- ^Tattooed_Leprechaun｜^🗣️💬 09:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with SeoR on this one. Whereas Katy Perry is a plausible first name and surname combination which demarcates it as an actual pseudonym, and Lady Gaga has become so famous to the level she is recognisable as "Gaga" as a mononym, Bambie Thug does not fall into either of these. In my eyes at least, it reads better to keep it was Robinson, and as suggested above, Bambie Thug in full elsewhere. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 09:36, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi again, TattooedLeprechaun, and with thanks to Ser!. This seems reasonable - especially the use of "Bambie Thug" in full, as it is not a formal two-part name, but a unified stage name. In the interviews so far, I have never noted it abberviated to "Thug" - but occasionally to "Bambie", with the origins of that name explained by the subject. The Perry and Gage cases are not perhaps fully compliant with the MOS, but as noted, these artists are so prominent that variant approaches could be OK, whereas with Bambie Thug, newly notable, we should keep it all fairly regular for now. Dealing with the deadname issue does make the article more complex to write and maintain, as some sources and details of the past, which might be standard for a biography, could make it hard to manage the issue - you don't need local connections with Macroom to find details of childhood, education, family business and earlier performance history, but all reveal the deadname. I think the article is now pretty solid on naming. SeoR (talk) 18:44, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Was he raised Catholic?

Does anyone have a reliable source for the religion of his parents or if he identified with any other religion before practicing neopagan witchcraft? 49.180.86.47 (talk) 02:09, 14 May 2024 (UTC)