Talk:Barkingside tube station

Untitled

Almost all the external links do not work - please amend —Preceding unsigned comment added by AsparagusTips (talk • contribs) 09:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I have removed Beary, seem to go nowhere! Modified LT archive link (1953). best, Sunil060902 (talk) 11:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Travelcard Zones

What zone was the station in prior to 2 January 2007? Jackiespeel (talk) 22:52, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

@Jackiespeel: if I recall correctly, the northern/eastern portion of the Hainault loop was in zone 5, with the southern/western portion in zone 4. One of the boundary stations was Woodford, but which the other boundary station was, I don't recall. Nowadays, the whole loop is in zone 4. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:19, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

It was Newbury Park. best, Sunil060902 (talk) 23:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Services

Having corrected the service levels yesterday I had to redo the change this morning. The original showed three trains in one direction and nine in the other with a cited source which was obviously in error. I have read the objection to my changes so the question I have is given a choice between correct information without a cited source and inaccurate data with a cited source which does Wikipedia prefer? Flyinglynx (talk) 12:34, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia prefers cited material. I have now corrected the information. Pls see the reference I used for details. Vincent60030 (talk) 13:22, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Your source is out of date. You have posted two different service schedules both of which are wrong. I disagree with your priority completely. Wikipedia should prefer accurate data ahead of cited material. Flyinglynx (talk) 14:18, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

@Flyinglynx: Verifiability is a core policy. If you can't show the source of your information, it has no business being here. See also WP:NOTTIMETABLE. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

I didn't write this section I just corrected an error - see above. My source is the timetable (valid since 15 September 2013). Flyinglynx (talk) 16:20, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

My source is having the May 2014 timetable since it was last edited in 2014 which is more up-to-date. Vincent60030 (talk) 16:35, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

As far as I am aware the September 2013 timetable is still valid. I have double checked my entry and still believe it to be right.

The traditional off-peak for the Central Line is approximately 11:30-15:30 Monday to Friday.

NB In comparison there is a different service pattern on Saturdays (more trains in operation) and another on Sundays (less trains in operation).

By using https://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/ we can calculate the number of trains per hour and their destinations.

Select: from Barkingside to Ealing Broadway then change date/time to Monday 20th July 12:00 and change edit to select underground only then count number of trains with departure times between 12:00 and 12:59 = 6

New edit: Select: from Barkingside to White City then change date/time to Monday 20th July 12:00 and change edit to select underground only then count number of trains with departure times between 12:00 and 12:59 = 9

New edit: Select: from Barkingside to East Acton then change date/time to Monday 20th July 12:00 and change edit to select underground only then count number of trains with departure times between 12:00 and 12:59 = 6 direct 3 with a change

Repeat for other times and dates Monday to Friday 11:30 to 15:30.

That shows me 6 tph destination Ealing Broadway and 3 tph destination White City

This matches the September 2013 timetable. Flyinglynx (talk) 18:54, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

That type of sourcing method is very troublesome. It is much easier to use a source that shows how many tph directly (in my opinion).@Redrose64: what do you think? Vincent60030 (talk) 13:23, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes; @Flyinglynx: what you have described there falls foul of WP:NOR, which is another core policy. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:37, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

How can it be "original research" when my source is TfL who run all the services in question? What better source is there? The services to Ealing Broadway can reasonably be assumed to have that station as their final destination as it is the final station on the line, however it is true that I have extrapolated the number of trains with a final destination of White City by subtracting the number of trains which go to East Acton or beyond from those going to White City. Can I propose an alternative? There is another method to glean this information from within TfL however please note that this should not be used for trains departing from Barkingside in the other direction due to TfL "counting" all those trains as serving final destination Hainault. The link https://tfl.gov.uk/tube/timetable/central?FromId=940GZZLUBKE&ToId=940GZZLUNBP&SelectedDate=mondayfriday&SelectedTime=11 shows each train programmed to leave Barkingside for Newbury Park between 11:00 and 11:59 Monday to Friday with the ultimate destination station. Once again it confirms the service pattern that I wrote to this page. Flyinglynx (talk) 16:31, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

It's original research because you are drawing conclusions which are not explicitly stated. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:10, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Like Vincent60030 (talk) 03:01, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

What more do you want? "to Ealing Broadway Underground Station" and "to White City Underground Station" couldn't be more explicit. Flyinglynx (talk) 17:33, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Also, if it is not original research, you should cite it in the article. Also, try to not leave bare URLs because it can cause link rot like Tfl's website. Well, that is actually original research because you jumped to conclusions when TfL has not even published the latest timetables plus it didn't even say about tph not like London Overground where they post timetables. My sources states the tph CLEARLY which is completely NOT original research. Vincent60030 (talk) 03:01, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

@Vincent60030: your source website is the personal website of a Mr Clive Feather. While the said gentleman is clearly an enthusiast and there is much valuable information contained within, unfortunately his "trains per hour" information is demonstrably out-of-date. Mr Feather has cited no source for his tph information yet you steadfastly cling to it as being right because that is what is on his page. On what grounds? You have stated that TfL do not publish tph information so pray how do you think Mr Feather arrived at his conclusion. I assume that he looked at the TfL timetable and derived the information from there, an assumption that I make because it is the most plausible explanation. I only "jumped to a conclusion" in so far as I read the timetable and counted the number of trains. If anyone has truly jumped to a conclusion it is you assuming that a webpage on a personal site is a reliable source for "moving data". If you look at the said site's Northern Line page you will notice that there is no mention of Tufnell Park station being closed, which it has been since 8th June of this year and will be on current estimations until Mid-March 2016. But then again why should it? It is the personal web site of an enthusiast and will no doubt be updated to reflect reality when the web site owner next updates that particular page. Mr Feather is under no obligation to produce up-to-date information for the day-to-day running of the system, nor for the benefit of Wikipedia, and I would recommend that his site should only be used as reference for its "historical" data.

@Redrose64: while I accept that there are rules in place it is total nonsense to attempt to use them to hamper or prevent a contribution that improves the quality of Wikipedia. First and foremost the reputation of Wikipedia is dependent upon the quality of its data. I made a simple change to correct an error. I accept that you and @Vincent60030 have challenged my post, and I have done my best to reply. My focus throughout this debate has been to prove that my contribution was and is accurate. I have made strong claims, supported by data from TfL. I believe my source is reliable and my data is accurate. I don't understand why you support this page continuing to display demonstrably inaccurate data. Primarily, the data is inaccurate. Second, you are relying on a technicality to prevent my change. Also, having looked at 20 different London tube station entries on Wikipedia, where present the vast majority (90%+) of service and/or connection sections have been written in a way that fails to meet the standards that you are demanding from me (no cited sources, cited sources of the same timetable section on TfL that I proposed yesterday, for example). I am aware of course that that may not be representative but I am not going to trawl through all of them. However it does beg the question that if this issue matters so much to you why have you not taken action to rectify all TfL tube station pages on Wikipedia?

@Redrose64: @Vincent60030: during my trawl I also discovered that a majority of those pages visited did not have a services section at all. So while I would like to correct the page, I would as an alternative, be quite happy to delete the section completely. Flyinglynx (talk) 18:24, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

or, evidently, for you to delete the section. Flyinglynx (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

@Flyinglynx: We are not saying that your data is inaccurate, nor saying the source is unreliable but you should CITE your sources. Do you understand? @Redrose64: do you agree? He didn't even cite the source in the last few edits that were reverted. Vincent60030 (talk) 04:14, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Don't forget, some trains from Central London terminate at Newbury Park, one station to the south ("westbound") of Barkingside. best, Sunil060902 (talk) 23:13, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64 and Vincent60030: I have now learnt how to ping. Your silence answers none of the many valid points that I have made.

@Vincent60030 you now admit that my data is accurate. By extension, you thus acknowledge that you have twice edited this page to change it from being correct to incorrect. I would now like to correct it once more so that the page is accurate. Your rule? That I cannot cite my source in a way that satisfies you and @Redrose64 is not a reason to block a change that corrects an error.

@Sunil060902: Yes, you're right. Isn't the typical off-peak tph pattern at Newbury Park 9tph eastbound and 12tph westbound (the additional three terminating at Ealing Broadway)? Flyinglynx (talk) 22:02, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Relevant policies are WP:V and WP:NOR. If you don't know how to satisfy the first of those, see WP:CITEBEGIN. But before including detail on train frequency, consider WP:NOTTRAVEL and WP:NOTTIMETABLE. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:59, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

@Flyinglynx: Again, we all do know that you know how to ping us, but can't you see Redrose64 is busy as he is an admin, you know? He is also busy in real life ok? I already answered your question by saying that you please CITE your sources. You did NOT put ANY references to your claim of services, OK? Vincent60030 (talk) 07:19, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Location

The road is not called Station Road but rather Station Approach. The cul-de-sac information is true but the cul-de-sac lies *off* Station Road and is not actually part of it.AsparagusTips (talk) 21:21, 24 December 2017 (UTC)