Talk:Battle of Asakai

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 06:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

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• ... that a virtual conflict in the online game Eve Online, the Battle of Asakai grew to involve over 3,000 game players after a player made a single mis-click?

• Reviewed: Ad Fontes Media

Created by 3family6 with help from User:Reidgreg, self-nominated at 17:15, 15 May 2020 (UTC).

• @3family6: I've made a slight change to the hook explaining that it took place in Eve Online, though for now I'll leave the review to another editor. I'm not sure though if Eve Online or the battle's name should be mentioned first in the hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:11, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• QPQ done, new enough, long enough. Hook needs some copy-editing. The lead is too long, and very confusing. I might suggest discussing more of hy this article is relevant, and less on the detail. --evrik ^(talk) 04:22, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

• Evrik, how do the lead and the hook look now?

• Why did the misclick lead to the large game? Your current article lead could be an article in itself. It should be copyedit to shorten it. It doesn't have to be so granular. --evrik ^(talk) 04:01, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

• How about now?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• Alt1 that in Eve Online, the Battle of Asakai grew to one of the largest online battles after a single player made an accidental move that opened the game to 3,000 other players? --evrik ^(talk) 03:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• That the move was an accident is important to note.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 03:58, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• • @Flibirigit, Yoninah, Cwmhiraeth, and BlueMoonset: please look at the lead and let me know if I am off base. Thanks. --evrik ^(talk) 03:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• ALT1 reads much better. I removed the comma after the bolded link. Yoninah (talk) 11:20, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• What confuses me about ALT1 is the phrase "opened the game"—to me that means that they'd done something to allow 3000 players previously barred from joining by some game rule or software exclusion to suddenly be able to join, rather than a mis-click that caused a strategic shift and resulted in an extended battle that attracted increasing numbers of players (which was also helped along by a new time-stretching feature that allowed more people to pile on). I'm not sure how to rephrase it, though. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:12, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
• How about:

Alt1a that in Eve Online, the Battle of Asakai grew to one of the largest online battles after a single player made an accidental move that escalated the conflict to include 3,000 other players? --3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:08, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• I still think the lead is too dense. --evrik ^(talk) 16:38, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• If you be more specific, that would be helpful.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 18:19, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• As i said earlier, there is too much information and details in the lead. --evrik ^(talk) 19:33, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

• I don't know how there can be less and still have the lead summarize the battle. I modeled the lead after how military conflict articles are written.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:12, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• @Evrik: how about now?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 03:29, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• I'm going to approve Alt1a, but I think the article could benefit from copy-edting. --evrik ^(talk) 03:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• @Evrik: please don't approve articles that you think need copy-editing. You're just leaving it up to the promoter to have to copyedit the thing. Already I see a sentence at the beginning of a section that has no commas or hyphens and is hard to parse: EVE Online is a persistent world massively multiplayer online role playing space trading and combat game. Ask the nominator to submit it to WP:GOCE before approval. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 17:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

• I've tried some copy-editing myself, but I need a different pair of eyes on this to catch more. I've put in a request.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:50, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

  • I took a run at copy editing the article, and left notes on the talk page. It looked to be pretty good, just a little smoothing from a fresh set of eyes. – Reidgreg (talk) 19:12, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

• --evrik ^(talk) 19:22, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Copy edit notes

Here are some notes from my copy edit of the article:

• Regarding capitalization of dreadnought, titan, etc. Generally, we treat something as a proper noun if reliable sources treat is as a proper noun. The Gaming Trend source uses inconsistent capitalization with dreadnought and battleship, and consistently uses lowercase for cruiser and carrier/supercarrier. I feel as though these are being used as generic terms. Titan, however, is consistently capitalized by Gaming Trend, and seems to be a class of ship rather than a type of ship (Titan-class supercapital ship). I'm not so sure about heavy interdictors. So I think capitalize Titan and lowercase all the others. (It's okay to capitalize them in the infobox list.)
• From the source, the first heavy interdictor belonged to DnD, not PL.
• I didn't find the statement CFC-controlled space was closer, allowing CFC to respond with reinforcements quicker than the opposing alliances in the Eurogamer source, and it seems to contradict the later statement that Asakai was centrally located and near both CFC and HBC space, neither coalition had a significant advantage in approaching the system.

Hope this is of help. Please {{ping|Reidgreg}} with any questions. – Reidgreg (talk) 19:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Notability

This article is very different from what I usually edit but I cannot see how this meets WP:GNG, especially in light of WP:NTEMP and WP:SUSTAINED. I cannot see how a stand-alone article can be justified. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:42, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:NTEMP, "once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage." The topic definitely meets GNG, since all four criteria are satisfied and it doesn't violate what Wikipedia is not. And some of that coverage is sustained: The battle was referenced in multiple independent sources in comparison to the later Bloodbath of B-R5RB, and another source dates from 2016. And the article meets WP:SBST, because several sources provide critical analysis.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 21:38, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

3family6, WP:SUSTAINED notes that "brief bursts of news coverage may not sufficiently demonstrate notability" and, with one exception, the sources were all published within days of the event in specialist publications, some of which appear not even to be WP:RS. I really don't see how it gets anywhere near WP:NEVENTS. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:11, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Do EVE Online ships have names?

I can't find any indication in the cited sources that they do, but real-world ships have names, and it makes writing battle summaries much easier. Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Bernanke's Crossbow, I believe that at least all of the bigger ships do have names. However, none of these have been reported in secondary sources (except maybe for Dabigredboat's, his might have been reported). I don't play the game and I'm not sure what primary source(s) would have these names.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Regarding this question. All ships can be named, although the name of the ship sometimes is confused by a number of things, for instance it's class or the specific player piloting the ship. For instance a player piloting an "Astero" (A tech 1, pirate class, exploration frigate) could name their ship, perhaps calling it "Trumpet"; it's still an Astero ship though. The designated name a player gives to their ship has only a few player interactions. The name is listed in the players asset hanger, and is listed on a long range scanning feature called direction scan (dscan).

Players only rarely refer to ships by their designated name and rather use a different category like it's hull type

Players learn to distinguish the capabilities and threat of a ship based off the following categories from most to least important.

1. Hull Size (frigates being smallest, cruisers and the larger battleships are most plentiful and well rounded, titans being largest).

2. Hull name, this is the specific type of hull a ship can be, for instance common cruiser hulls are the ishtar, muninn, cynabal, caracal. Each hull type has unique attributes a player will eventually learn to distinguish.

3. Tech 1, 2, 3: This represents the complexity of constructing the ship as well correspondlingly increasing capability and survivability.

4. Faction: many npc factions have their own specific hulls in each of the categories above 199.96.94.233 (talk) 19:02, 25 September 2023 (UTC)