Talk:Battle of Nicopolis (1798)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 19:44, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

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French troops fighting amidst the ruins of the ancient theatre of Nicopolis

• ... that in the Battle of Nicopolis (pictured) in 1798, Revolutionary French troops fought the forces of the Ottoman potentate, Ali Pasha of Ioannina, amidst the ruins of the ancient city of Nicopolis? Source: Summary of the article.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Battle of Bronkhorstspruit

Improved to Good Article status by Cplakidas (talk). Self-nominated at 08:56, 16 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Battle of Nicopolis (1798); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - n

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Cplakidas: Good article. Though, I don't think the hook is that intersting. it mostly just feels like it's saying "Did you know that the battle of nicopolis took place at nicopolis?" which feels basic and boring. A better hook would be appreciated. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:56, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: I am not aware of many battles being fought amidst the ruins of an ancient city. I think that is interesting, and that is where I wanted to put the emphasis. Perhaps ALT1 "... that in 1798, Revolutionary French troops fought (pictured) the forces of the Ottoman potentate, Ali Pasha of Ioannina, amidst the ruins of the ancient city of Nicopolis?", but I dislike this as it is an MOS:EASTEREGG. Constantine ✍ 17:03, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: I mean, that might work but is there anything else you can use as a hook? Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke:

ALT2: "... that during the Battle of Nicopolis in 1798, the Revolutionary French troops placed their artillery (pictured) on top of an ancient burial mound?", and I would use IAN 0959 Myrbach 89.jpg as a n image here.

ALT3: "... that in 1798, the Ottoman potentate Ali Pasha of Ioannina defeated the troops of Revolutionary France that had occupied the ruins of the ancient city of Nicopolis (pictured)?", with the original image. Constantine ✍ 17:42, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Guess i'll approve these. Onegreatjoke (talk) 14:25, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: For ALT2, the article says "It apparently was located on top of an ancient burial mound" (my emphasis). Can you clarify whether the source states this as a fact rather than a speculation? For what it's worth, I like the idea behind the original hook; it just needs to be trimmed down. Proposing ALT4: "... that the Battle of Nicopolis (pictured) was fought amongst the ruins of an ancient city?" Sojourner in the earth (talk) 18:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sojourner in the earth: I can confirm that, and have rephrased in the article accordingly. ALT4 works for me as well, but I would add at least the date to emphasize the contrast. Constantine ✍ 18:30, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

French troops defending a redoubt at the Battle of Nicopolis

@Cplakidas: Thanks for rephrasing that. As for the hook, I figured that the image would convey the general era, though of course the hook isn't guaranteed to get an image slot. (Whichever hook is chosen, incidentally, I think File:IAN 0959 Myrbach 89.jpg looks much better at thumbnail size.) Anyway, would you like me to request a reviewer for ALT4, or would you rather let this go ahead with one of the other hooks? Sojourner in the earth (talk) 18:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sojourner in the earth: I think ALT4 is a good option, so let's go ahead with that one. Thanks for your suggestion! Constantine ✍ 18:52, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Reviewer requested for ALT4: "... that the 1798 Battle of Nicopolis (pictured) was fought amongst the ruins of an ancient city?" Sojourner in the earth (talk) 19:16, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Approving ALT4, although I also prefer ALT2. Use of the images on the main page, however, is not approved, because both images have unresolved tags (lacking justification for United States public domain status). Cielquiparle (talk) 08:49, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

@Cielquiparle: there are US PD tags for both files due to their publication date. What exactly is missing? Constantine ✍ 13:14, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Looks like the tags still need to be resolved though? It shouldn't be showing the warning message. I think it's missing one more tag. There should be instructions on Commons on how to resolve; or you could ask for help? "You must also include a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States."

@Cielquiparle: The US PD tag is there, under "Licensing", but I moved it up into the box. Not an expert on these tags, but in my experience they do not check whether there are other tags in the same page, so the warning is never 'resolved' AFAIK. Constantine ✍ 14:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Maybe someone from Commons will see this and advise – at least there are the two PD tags now side by side – it just looks a little funny that there's a CC-BY-4.0 license alongside them as well. Seems contradictory. In any case I wouldn't be confident enough to pass the image, but another editor may be able to explain why it's ok and/or help fix it. In any case, the DYK hook and article are approved, and shouldn't be held up just for the picture. Cielquiparle (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Cplakidas and Cielquiparle: I've moved the PD tags into a wrapper template; this allows PD-old to detect the presence of PD-US and therefore hides the message that says "You must also include a United States public domain tag". The other warnings are just part of the template and can't be hidden. I'm also no expert, but I think this is okay now. Sojourner in the earth (talk) 16:23, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sojourner in the earth: Thank you very much. Constantine ✍ 16:25, 30 March 2023 (UTC)