Talk:Battle of Pločnik

Untitled

What the heck is a "historiography"? It's in the paranthetical in the first sentence. Why not simply use the word "history"? Sorry, I mean "utilize". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.175.68.173 (talk) 07:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Serbian bias

This article is Serbian oriented, biassed and does not give a neutral point of view. There are no references to the Ottoman sources that exist and not even the name of the battle in Turkish is given. The Serbian bias is so evident when a person who is an "assassin" from the Ottoman point of view, Miloš Obilić, is described by as "later a hero at the Battle of Kosovo". He may be perhaps be described a "hero" from a Serbian point of view but he was definitely a "low-grade killer" from an Ottoman point of view. By analogy one can look at the article on Gavrilo Princip, the Serbian assassin who started the First World War, and describe Milos Obilic not as a "hero" but as a Serbian "assassin" which he was.Noyder (talk) 23:12, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, if there was a situation that some Turkish high-ranking 
officer killed Serbian prince Lazar in battle, than the Turks
certainly would called him a "hero", and Serbs probably  
"assassin". There`s nothing biased in that fact.

Something that troubles me more is description of the battle. Turkish forces were not so undisciplined to go blindly on plundering, unaware of very large Serbian army in the vicinity (where are recon squads?). And the number of Serbian soldiers-30.000? So, invading army is much smaller than defender? And also "many of them were cavalry"? Seems like a lot of excuses for defeat. Serbian sources say that a number of soldiers on both sides is unknown [[1]] but also mentions that Lazar and Murat I leaded the armies. 178.222.111.115 (talk) 09:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Milos Obilic "later became a hero in Serbian folklore" - this is 100% neutral point of view. Also, according to the earliest preserved record, a letter from the Florentine senate to King Tvrtko I of Bosnia dated 20 October 1389 (only 3 months after the battle!), Murad was killed during the battle! Check Battle of Kosovo about that. Note that letter was respond to Tvrtko's letter, that was not preserved. But we can assume that Tvrtko's letter was written in September, only two months after the battle. The major problem in this article are numbers of soldiers. There is no way that Lazar alone was capable of deploying 30,000 solders at Plocnik. That is the size of combined Serbian forces at Kosovo, few years latter. Lazar's army at Kosovo was under 15,000. --N Jordan (talk) 01:53, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Şahin

We need to identify this "Kula Şahin Paşa" or "Şahin Bey". If this Şahin and Lala Şahin Pasha are not the same person, and the former fought at Pločnik and Bileća, then there needs to be changes made at several articles. There are indeed Gbooks hits mentioning Lala Şahin Pasha as the commander at both battles. What does Namık (1982) explicitly say about this matter? It should be noted that the later Hadım Şehabeddin (d. 1453) is commonly also known as Kula Şahin Paşa; I find only hits on this, except the following:--Zoupan 23:15, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

• Història de Jacob Xalabín / History of Yakub Çelebi: A Critical Edition, with an Introduction, Notes, and English Translation. BRILL. 1 October 2015. pp. 158–. ISBN 978-90-04-30272-3. The second corresponds to Şahin Bey or Paşa; of the men of this name, it is highly improbable that this is Lala Şahin Paşa, tutor of Murad; perhaps it is Kula Şahin Paşa, identified by some as the Ottoman commander who had fought ... in Pločnik ... and in Bileća