Talk:Beyoncé/Archive 15

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Beyoncé's Achievement Section

As someone mentioned previously about some edits needing to be done to Beyoncé's achievement section, I agree with them. Her album sales have beem updated to 29.5 million units and her overall record sales as a solo act to 160 million. Even if the 17 million is there it should read "17 million pure sales and 29.5 million units" or something to that effect. Reading the achievement section with her selling 100 million and a futher 60 million with DC gives off the impression that her 160 million total comes from a combination of those two which is inaccurate. Additionally, Beyoncé being one of only three women to achieve a billion dollars in touring is an accomplishment in the industry and should be added as well. Whoever is responsible for the edits should fix this immediately for transparency and accuracy's sake. Marksman9528 (talk) 11:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2022

Switch the birthday from 1981 to 1985 82.24.67.184 (talk) 05:16, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 05:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2022

Suggested inclusion of important Beyoncé nominations + win to the last paragraph of her introduction summary, so that it reads:

"Beyoncé's accolades include 28 Grammy Awards, 26 MTV Video Music Awards (including the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award in 2014), 24 NAACP Image Awards, 31 BET Awards, and 17 Soul Train Music Awards (all of which are more than any other singer), as well as becoming a Peabody honoree in Entertainment. She's also been nominated for eight Primetime Emmy Awards, one Daytime Emmy Award, five Golden Globe Awards and an Academy Award." Inc0gnitionary (talk) 08:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Aoidh (talk) 01:23, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Lead sentence

This sentence—Beyoncé's boundary-pushing artistry and vocals have made her the most influential female musician of the 21st century, according to NPR—seems too unimportant for the second sentence of the lead. I propose a removal. Cessaune (talk) 02:27, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

@Cessaune: I noted it. I think wouldn't hurt to remove it, considering biographies main articles, generally doesn't have claims from a single entity, but in legacy/impact section unlike achievements. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Beyonce Genre Section

Considering her coverage of Afrobeats in Lion King: The Gift, Afrobeats should be acknowledge as her genre, she bring forward that genre and introduce it to the world. With her susccesful experimantation on Dance/Disco/House, she should be recognized in Dance/ EDM genre as well. We are overlooking her genre in this 2 albums. 2405:3800:852:C520:0:0:0:1 (talk) 23:08, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Additional achievements

Beyoncé's 1 billion dollar gross should be added to her page. Additionally she has been ranked at No.8 on Rolling Stones 200 Greatest Singers of all time list. 190.80.50.158 (talk) 16:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2023

Hi I think that everyone should be able to edit this article 2001:8003:F427:B400:8934:2065:8221:F7E4 (talk) 09:19, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

The correct place to make that request is with the protecting admin at User talk:Bongwarrior, or if they are inactive at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. --Mvqr (talk) 13:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Grammar Edit Request 2023.01.12

Can someone please fix the first sentence in the third paragraph? Please change "critically" to "critical." "Acclaim" is a noun and thus should be modified with an adjective, not an adverb. Thank you! Buffyinfaith (talk) 15:51, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. Welcome to Wikipedia. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:36, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Home town

She is not from Houston she is from New Iberia, Louisiana she went to school in Avery Island 75.35.111.41 (talk) 01:37, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Length

Text tips scales at 14,300 words. – Sca (talk) 13:35, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Queen Bey link goes against MOS:EGG?

Hi, this is my first time posting to a talk page, and this is a rather small issue, but I noticed that something on this page seems to go against a Wikipedia style guideline I had read before, and I would like to improve my understanding of the guidelines. There is a sentence in the lead paragraph

   Her success has made her a cultural icon and earned her the nickname "Queen Bey"

which contains the link [[Honorific nicknames in popular music|Queen Bey]]. Does this link go against the guideline of "make sure that the reader knows what to expect when clicking on a link"? I would expect a "Queen Bey" link to link to Beyoncé's page, although since I'm already on that page, I would expect the phrase to just be in bold. Timotree3 (talk) 23:52, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Theory

please change ((Theory)) to ((Theory (clothing retailer)|Theory)) 98.239.227.65 (talk) 02:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done Lightoil (talk) 02:49, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Beyonce donation to Philippines

Hi, i found this and it was big news in the Philippines back then. Would it fit in in her Philantrophy?

Songs for the Philippines is a compilation of 39 songs by a diverse range of creators, including Beyoncé, Justin Bieber, Michael Bublé and The Beatles. The artists, record companies and music publishers have agreed to donate all proceeds from the record to the Philippine Red Cross to aid for the relief for those who were affected by the strongest Typhoon that ever hit the planet, Typhoon Haiyan. Beyonce submitted "i was here" for the said album.

Sources: 1. CBC News - https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/beyonc%C3%A9-justin-bieber-among-stars-on-philippines-relief-album-1.2440866 2. USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2013/11/25/songs-for-the-philippines-album-compilation/3704555/ 3. Essence - https://www.essence.com/news/beyonce-donates-songs-philippines-relief-album/

jmarkfrancia (talk) 12:15, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Amendment request - to reflect source accurately

"Beyoncé .. is descended from a slave owner who married his slave": the source cited states tht the bride was a slave and married a slave-owner, but not tht she was his slave.

So I request an amendment: " .. married a slave".

90.244.202.155 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

== A Commons file used on

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2023

She is a Singer Song Reader. She does not write songs.She has a team of writers. Please change the Song Writer to Song Reader. 47.218.212.46 (talk) 23:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: See the Beyonce#Songwriting section Cannolis (talk) 09:01, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Can you provide some proof, perhaps? Kamo0606 (talk) 20:21, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2023

Second sentence of head paragraph ("Proclaimed...") is a standalone participle clause that should be merged with an independent one. Recommending:

Proclaimed by the honorific title "Queen Bey" amongst her fan base, she is noted for her boundary-pushing artistry and mass appeal within pop culture. Abxck22 (talk) 03:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 04:06, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

beyonce

Beyonce had 1,800 kids secretly in Dubai 216.227.248.236 (talk) 15:20, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Cultural impact of Beyoncé

So I've seen that the new page documenting Beyoncé's cultural impact has been created recently and it has a lot of flaws and errors that need to be fixed and also needs to be expanded as soon as possible. Can I call every other editor to have my attention and go help me expand this page as soon as possible? Thanks. RegularboyA (talk) 16:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

change this picture

change this pleasee 2804:2164:400D:B700:D1B9:62CA:77EF:75FA (talk) 12:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

This footnote no longer leads to the source it purports

The link in a footnote goes to an article that does not support the footnoted fact (that Lemonade referred to Jay-Z infidelity). The footnote is:

Pareles, Jon (April 25, 2016). "Review: Beyoncé Makes 'Lemonade' Out of Marital Strife". The New York Times. Archived from the original on October 27, 2021. Retrieved June 24, 2016

The link goes to a wayback machine article about the birth of Blue Ivy and makes no reference to Lemonade or infidelity.

Not disputing the infidelity-- it just needs a new reference. Stucco33 (talk) 11:46, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Is the Legacy section too long?

While I am currently working on the lead paragraphs right now, I noticed that there isn't much said about her current legacy as an artist and the greatest living entertainer alive, but there are two excessive paragraphs about "rap singing" and "pop culture phrases." Neither of which belong in a legacy section, would fit more in Cultural impact of Beyoncé. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 15:49, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Inclusion of Spanish Album on Discography?

Would it not be prudent to include, "Irreemplazable" within the list of Beyonce's discography? It is referenced on the following wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreemplazable MusicMasterCB123 (talk) 14:07, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

"Beezy" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Beezy has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 6 § Beezy until a consensus is reached. मल्ल (talk) 20:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Notification: Proposed deletion of Cultural impact of Beyoncé

I have nominated the Cultural impact of Beyoncé article for deletion due to multiple problems I have seen within that article. All editors are welcomed to contest or debate this proposed deletion on this article. Plus, you have seven days to improve this article before it may be deleted. RegularboyA (talk) 14:41, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Renaissance World Tour

It should be mentioned that Beyoncé's Renaissance World Tour is now in the top 10 all time grossing list and is the highest grossing female tour of all time. 190.108.215.225 (talk) 00:13, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Where's the source? Bluesatellite (talk) 00:23, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Shorten Ancestry Information

"Life and career" has two long paragraphs on her ancestry and goes as far back to her fourth great-grandmother. Could these sections be shortened? Squaredtrig (talk) 01:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Bad picture

That's not a very good picture, surely we can do better than that? Jozsefs (talk) 09:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Better source required

There really needs to be a better source than https://famouskin.com/ahnentafel.php?name=26983+beyonc%C3%A9 for this: "Through her mother, Beyoncé is a descendant of many French aristocrats from the southwest of France, including the family of the Viscounts de Béarn since the 9th century, and the Viscounts de Belzunce" ("Belzunce", for what it's worth, not spelled that way in the cited source at all, rather "Belsunce"). It's worth observing that things like the HuffPost article also cited in this section make no mention of this ancestry. The only online sources referring to this alleged relationship to viscounts use the same wording as this article, and are additionally of low quality/ user-generated content. Google books brings up no results for "Beyonce" and either "Viscounts de Béarn" or "de Belzunce" (was the latter put here just because it's plausibly similar to "Beyonce"?)- we get it, she's "a queen" to many people and all, but this is appallingly badly sourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.234.59 (talk) 20:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I removed the entire statement - you're right, this is a ridiculous non-source and I've started a query to remove it elsewhere too. Thanks, IP! GRINCHIDICAE🎄 20:52, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I did wonder if I should point it out, but really it did seem very dubious :) 92.24.234.59 (talk) 02:24, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Cite web problems

@Ira Leviton and SNUGGUMS: A script error has occurred but before that's fixed I want to check that you know the following. This article appears to have 240 cite web (from {{cite web}} or Module:Cite web). I don't know anything about the history of this page but there should be a good reason to change {{#invoke:Cite web||...}} to {{cite web|...}}. The former (#invoke) is often used when an article hits the post‐expand include size template limit. Replacing these with the template might put the article back to showing a bunch of errors. When using the #invoke syntax, the double pipe || is essential. I suspect that some recent edits should be checked. The current article has one {{invoke with a missing #. Also, {{#invoke:Cite web|url=http is present without the double pipe (giving a script error). Please review. Johnuniq (talk) 07:14, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: That was my error - there was a double pipe that needed fixing, but I applied it to the {{#invoke:Cite web||...}} citation that I shouldn't have touched. I believe that both are correct now. Thank you for being vigilant, and I apologize for making you do spend the extra time for my mistake. Ira Ira Leviton (talk) 14:14, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I've been sure to remove the double pipe with such changes, and to be honest, using "invoke cite web" feels like unnecessary filler when the more concise "cite web" can be implemented. Going for the latter can help reduce overall article size to some extent. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Someone went to a lot of trouble to use #invoke. They probably did that to avoid a template limit problem. Removing the #invoke might result in a lot of red error messages where templates should have been expanded. As it happens, I just previewed an edit to this article after removing all the #invoke and there were no errors. The post-expand include size was 1.7 MB out of the 2 MB limit (the current article is 1.56 MB). The article will break if that limit is reached. By all means, remove #invoke but bear in mind that doing so could result in errors. Johnuniq (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Why is there is no legal issues section covering the litany of lawsuits she's faced in her life and career?

As the title states, why is there is no legal issues section covering the litany of lawsuits she's faced in her life and career? For reasons unknown to me, this article was classified as a Good Article and despite the egregious omission of all the legal troubles and lawsuits. Good Article are supposed to be broad in their coverage AND neutral. This clearly isn't the case here. Instantwatym (talk) 04:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

The Knowles Family

Why is there not any information on Beyonce's father's side of the family? The Knowles' American history goes back to the American Revolution. It is my opinion that her father's family history is one to be revered. Permiansea (talk) 17:53, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2024

Timeornd (talk) 21:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

The name of the futur act ii of Beyoncé is not Renaissance, Renaissance was the name of the act i, the name of the act ii will drop at 29 march maybe.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 17:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Re the first artist to 7 number 1 debut albums on Billboard 200

Just for information:

Drake has had all his studio albums debut at number 1. His 7th studio album was "Honestly, Never mind.". This debuted atop of the chart in July 2022

Drake | Biography, Music & News | Billboard

Beyonce's 7th (Renaissance) debuted atop in August 2022.

https://www.billboard.com/artist/beyonce/chart-history/tlp/

So, it looks like Drake was the first artist to have their first seven studio albums debut at number one in the US. Beyonce was the first to 6 (male or female) and so far, she's still the only female to do 7.

Koppite1 (talk) 15:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2024

Add country tag to Beyoncé Wiki Account. She is nominated for the Bilboard Country Award for her new song 'texas Hold'em' (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/arts/music/beyonce-billboard-country-charts.html) FredFromJupiter (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. To support the addition of a genre, it must be demonstrated that reliable sources specifically refer to an artist using that label, and not simply that the artist has released music which falls under that genre. Tollens (talk) 03:46, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Achievements across genres.

In Beyoncé's achievements section it should be highlighted that she has seen hot 100 chart topping success with various genres of music: -Crazy in Love (R&B/Funk) -Baby Boy (Dancehall) -Irreplaceable (Pop/R&B) -Check on it (R&B/Hip-Hop) -Single Ladies(Pop) -Perfect Duet (Pop) -Savage Remix (Rap) -Break my Soul (House) -Texas Hold Em (Country) She has also topped all genre specific charts sans Rock on Billboard. Additionally, she broke the record for charting on the most airplay charts in billboard history for a female. These statz were mentioned by Billboard and are very specific to her discography. 190.108.215.9 (talk) 00:26, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2024

Change name Beyoncé to Beyonc due to Texas laws TroyCZc (talk) 02:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

What? Tollens (talk) 02:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I think Troy, means that Beyoncé should be changed to Beyonce (without the accent) because of Texas laws 70.50.199.125 (talk) 01:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Ah. In that case, see WP:COMMONNAME. Tollens (talk) 03:33, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2024

Add country music to Genres. Beyoncé has recently been doing country music (TEXAS HOLD 'EM), so it should be added under Genre in the infobox. 70.50.199.125 (talk) 08:34, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. HorrorLover555 (talk) 16:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

To add to article

Basic information to add to this article (which isn't explained in the current version of this article): why her last name is Knowles-Carter. (It's because her husband's real name is Shawn Corey Carter.) 98.123.38.211 (talk) 15:45, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Can someone please create a Wikipedia page for Beyoncé's charity foundation "BeyGood"?

It is possible for a seasoned auditor to draft a distinct article for the non-profit charity foundation established by Beyoncé known as "BeyGood". I believe that this charitable organization meets the criteria to warrant its own entry on Wikipedia, similar to the Born This Way Foundation founded by Lady Gaga and the Ray of Light Foundation founded by Madonna, for instance.

References: Official website: https://beygood.org/ Articles: Newpicarchive (talk) 06:13, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

This is an interesting possibility. For the time being, I have redirected the title to Beyoncé#Philanthropy, which discusses this. I would suggest expanding the content in that section first. BD2412 T 17:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The article requires further elaboration as it lacks coverage on several important topics and becomes irrelevant when merged into an individual’s article with outdated information and a lack of updates. Nevertheless, I am willing to enhance the content if a proficient editor is willing to create a separate article focusing on the charity non-profit organization [[BeyGood]] in the future. Newpicarchive (talk) 21:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

That is often the best way to develop content that can easily be broken out into a separate article. BD2412 T 02:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Years Active

Can y'all please decide once and for all what is considered active? Every time I come here the box says a different year. Furthermore, every time Bey's years change, it throws off the years for the other members pages as well, particularly the girls who she grew up performing in the group with. When Bey's years active box said 1995, their pages were edited to match because they all got signed to the same record deal in 95. I need to know if 1990 is the final decision so I can know how to edit theirs as well, since only Bey and LaTavia started off in the group that year. 107.116.183.25 (talk) 17:29, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Cowboy Carter

The following bit of the lede needs amending/adding to/rejigging:

"Beyoncé achieved critical acclaim for the experimental visual albums Beyoncé (2013) and Lemonade (2016), which explored themes such as feminism and womanism. With her Black queer-inspired dance album Renaissance (2022), she became the first female artist to have their first seven studio albums debut at number one on Billboard 200."

I think we now need to somehow incorporate Cowboy Carter, how it's broken certain records and how she's the only female solo artist to debut at number 1 with all her studio albums. Koppite1 (talk) 12:55, 8 April 2024 (UTC) ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

This reversal

Hi, not sure why my recent edit has been completely reverted. I intended to revert an unconstructive edit. Well, I admit that I'm not familiar with Beyoncé, nor have I conducted "thorough research". Thedarkknightli (talk) 18:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

beyonce's fame

she started singing in 2025, with her daughter crazy kennar, their 1st song being mali safi chito. Anny wambui (talk) 09:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Remove good article

As stated by @MuZemike: this article should not be a good article, as it fails criteria #5 (Stable). The page's edit history says it all DollysOnMyMind (talk) 14:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Sure seems like it would be prudent to allow the above Genre conversation to run its course before de-listing this article. Wouldn’t that mostly resolve the stability issue? 173.22.12.194 (talk) 14:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't think so, the article wasn't stable even before the last issue DollysOnMyMind (talk) 14:43, 11 June 2024 (UTC) Note: User:DollysOnMyMind is a sockpuppet of User:Giubbotto non ortodosso. — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

• Not now See Good Article Reassessment. Not only is it much preferable to simply improve an existing GA up to standards than delisting, but also explicitly Requesting reassessment during a content dispute or edit war is usually inappropriate. There are good reasons for this. GabberFlasted (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

As a neutral party, who is not involved in the ongoing genre disputes on this article, I do think this article warrants a Good Article Reassessment. I had mentioned this an archived talk page discussion months prior. A Reassessment discussion should be started to highlight the lack of neutrality and puffery related issues on this article. Just to give a few examples, at one point someone had this woman listed as a pianist in the infobox, her political affliations were being conflated as philanthropy and she was being credited as the founder of the singing/rapping melodic rap style that artists such as Drake have adopted. Not to mention her legal troubles being entirely omitted from the article, which begs the question how this article was classified as a Good Article in the first place, as criteria 3 and 4 were not sufficiently met. Instantwatym (talk) 16:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with @Instantwatym, the article is far off from being good article worthy, it needs a good long revision from some one who is neutral and sorted out. Justinaintime (talk) 17:11, 14 June 2024 (UTC) — Justinaintime (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of MariaJaydHicky (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Some diffs would be appreciated. GabberFlasted (talk) 11:06, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Genres

Maybe change House to Dance music so it also fits her discography more holistically and not just Renaissance Ravenfate (talk) 15:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Or remove Genres from the infobox entirely since it isn't really that helpful and tends to invite edit warring. 216.126.35.174 (talk) 23:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The genres should be those widely used by high quality music industry sources, and should be referenced to such sources. Cullen328 (talk) 00:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with @Cullen328:. As previously did by @FMSky: I suggest to remove Afrobeat, house & county as they widely violate WP: EXPLICITGENRE parameters DollysOnMyMind (talk) 14:09, 11 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328

Regarding the change from House to Dance. As per WP: EXPLICITGENRE the source needs to directly refer to either the piece of work or the artist as being of a particular genre. Maybe the following sources would be adequate?

1)This one refers to a specific piece of work being "Dance"

Beyoncé ‘Renaissance’ review: dance album sees star at her most unguarded - Rolling Stone UK

2)This one refers to the artist herself having a history of making Dance music

Beyoncé Dance Songs: Crazy in Love, 7/11, Telephone (vulture.com) Koppite1 (talk) 09:48, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Koppite1, a reference describing a single work as a specific genre cannot be used to support saying that the artist is of that genre. Eric Clapton is not called reggae even though he recorded "I Shot the Sheriff". The Rolling Stone review can certainly be used to characterize Renaissance, which is already called dance in its article. The Vulture source is stronger in my opinion because it establishes her pattern of making music in the dance genre over time. Cullen328 (talk) 16:28, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your constructive feedback. So, from these 2 sources combined, would you say they are enough to comply with Ravenfate's initial request i.e. to change House to Dance in the info box? Koppite1 (talk) 16:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

To be frank, Koppite1, I do not care one way or another, and considdr the issue a triviality. Cullen328 (talk) 18:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@AG202: and @Newpicarchive: who reverted edits that removed the disputed genres can no doubt speak for themselves, but from my perspective, i'm just keen to make sure that whatever consensus is reached, the correct protocols have been followed. You are asking for the immediate removal of certain genres. @GabberFlasted: (on Admin noticeboard) pointed to Dispute Resolution. If you study that, it actually advises against removal, but rather enhancement of the disputed material. So, if the crux of the matter is inadequate sources, then various editors should be given opportinity to correct this and provide references that are more acceptable.Koppite1 (talk) 09:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Bascially no one other than user Koppite1 wants to keep these nonsensical genres (afrobeats, house, country) in the infobox --FMSky (talk) 17:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't see those as nonsensical genres. However, I do see listing *any* genres in the info box as nonsensical since all it does is create nonsensical edit wars. 216.126.35.174 (talk) 10:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Koppite1 you keep on pushing the someone gotta do something mentality you was asked not to have on Admin noticeboard. You asked me to reach consensus here; the discussion is open and everyone but you is suggesting to remove these genres, some even describe them as nonsensical (and personally, I agree). I think we do have a consensus that you are refusing to accept DollysOnMyMind (talk) 15:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure that there is a consensus. Let's take the country for instance. There is certainly no general consensus that the country genre itself is in anyway ridiculous. Beyoncé has recorded and performs a number songs in the country genre. 216.126.35.174 (talk) 17:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Beyonce has delved into country many years prior her current country songs - so the genre is not "new" to her. She has a history there (whether or not ordinary folk see her as a "country" singer is somewhat irrelevant). What has continually been put forward for a removal of the genre from her bio is WP: EXPLICITGENRE. The whole argument for removal is simply based on inadequate references. So, if a consensus can be reached on what is considered acceptable sources, then i don't see why the genre needs to be removed. Koppite1 (talk) 18:22, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

ok, you don't. Reading this talk page we can see every other user understanding why DollysOnMyMind (talk) 18:50, 13 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Please quit with the passive aggressive rudeness. You started this whole debate regarding removal by saying that certain genres need to be removed specifically because the sources were poor. You said:

" suggest to remove Afrobeat, house & county as they widely violate WP: EXPLICITGENRE parameters"

Therefore, if adequate sources can be found, and consensus reached on their adequacy, this should negate a reason to remove under WP: EXPLICITGENR. In fact, if you actually read WP: EXPLICITGENR, it states " Adding references to reliable sources will usually result in a total cure of the disease". Koppite1 (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

You're acting like you have these sources in your pocket, if you do, pull them out and let us discuss their reliability — if you don't stop reaching with this someone gotta do it attitude you was asked not to have on Admin noticeboard DollysOnMyMind (talk) 11:58, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

And by the way, I never said "that certain genres need to be removed specifically because the sources were poor". The sources are not poor per se, they poorly support the claim that you're building up on the infobox by violating WP: EXPLICITGENRE, as they do not claim the artist to be part of such genres. “"5 Times Beyoncé's Music Was Inspired by Africa"” is a far far far far cry from saying “Beyonce is an Afrobeats artist” DollysOnMyMind (talk) 12:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The crux is, you proposed the removal of certain genres simply because you felt the sources were inadequate (see above) and had previously submitted the issue to the Admin notice board on the basis that the sources were poor.

Moving forward, as per WP: EXPLICITGENRE, the source needs to directly refer to either a piece of work or the artist as being of a particular genre (doesn't say it has to be both). For the country genre i propose the following:

1)This one explicitly/directly describes a piece of work (Texas Hold Em) as a country song/track

BEYONCE songs and albums | full Official Chart history (officialcharts.com)

2)This one directly refers to Texas Hold Em as being the biggest selling country track of 2024

The Official Top 10 biggest country songs of 2024 so far in the UK | Official Charts

3)This one directly refers to Texas Hold Em as a country song (country banger) and it being in the top 200 greatest country songs of all time

The 200 Greatest Country Songs of All Time (rollingstone.com)

4)This was goes back further and directly describes Daddy Lessons as a country song

Beyoncé’s “Daddy Lessons” Is Classic Country - American Songwriter

5)This one states that Beyonce has always been country

Beyoncé Has Always Been Country | TIME Koppite1 (talk) 13:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

At this point I'm seriously worried about your reading comprehension abilities. WP: EXPLICITGENRE doesn't say that "the source needs to directly refer to either a piece of work or the artist" as you claimed. It says that the source needs to directly refer to a piece of work for the piece of work's article, and to the artist for the artist's article. The list of sources you provided is even worse than what was on the page before. Listing different types of charts to provide genres is beyond ridiculous. It's like saying Justin Bieber is a Latino and hip hop artist because he has a couple songs in those billboard charts. Bananas. With “Beyoncé Has Always Been Country” you're taking the sentence completely out of context trying to make it look like it refers to her making that music widely during her career, but the article never mentions her having a long-term county music career, it's not even hinting at that.DollysOnMyMind (talk) 15:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Seriously, i'm not sure how the moderators allow you to be so rude. Can you not get your point across without insults?? As per :EXPLICITGENRE i disagree with your interpretation.

"When classifying music, sources must explicitly attribute the genre to the work or artist as a whole"

It gives an example "the album is a quintessential example of avant-rock ..."

Even if you want to discount the UK chart description (and let's face it--they could have chosen to describe the work as country influenced, or country themed rather than directly describing it as country)...Rolling Stone and American Songwriter directly describes the music as country i.e. the source explicitly attributes the genre to the work.

EXPLICITGENRE's example "the album is a quintessential example of avant-rock "

I see that as being no different to " “Daddy Lessons” is a country song." (As) or "is a 21st century country banger" (RS). Koppite1 (talk) 15:47, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

They are not describing Beyonce as a whole. Duh DollysOnMyMind (talk) 15:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

They don't have to. The sources must explicitly attribute the genre to the work OR the artist. Nowhere does it say it has to be BOTH. Otherwise, there is no way there would be e.g. a reggae genre in Rihanna's info box, or a rock genre on Taylor Swift's or. a jazz genre on Lady Gaga's. And before you point to Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFF), that section doesn't completely discount the ability to reference to a similar situation.

"If you reference such a past debate, and it is clearly a very similar case to the current debate, this can be a strong argument that should not be discounted because of a misconception that this section is a blanket ban on ever referencing other articles or deletion debates".

Especially in the case of feature articles such as Swift and Gaga

"While comparing with other articles is not, in general, a convincing argument, comparing with articles that have been through some kind of quality review such as Featured article, Good article, or have achieved a WikiProject A class rating, makes a much more credible case"

In fact i'm astounded that there are no references in their info box re the rock and jazz genres considering the fuss and hoops being put out to include certain genres in the Beyonce info box Koppite1 (talk) 16:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

You are misinterpreting what WP:EXPLICITGENRE says. I have already explained you why. If you're going to write another nonsensical wall of text, go ahead, but just know that what emerged from this talk page is that the genres will be removed DollysOnMyMind (talk) 16:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC) — DollysOnMyMind (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Giubbotto non ortodosso (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The "nonsensical" wall of text, quoted word for word, is from Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFF. It's explaining when it's "more" acceptable to use other examples. Lady Gaga, Swift, Rihanna are not referred to as Jazz, Rock and Reggae musicians "as a whole". But rather, some of their works are described that way - which is why those genres are listed in their info box (and Swift and Gaga are featured articles which mean they would have gone through extra scrutiny). That is a similar situation to Beyonce. Some of her work has directly been described as country - if not Beyonce as a whole Koppite1 (talk) 18:25, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth in my opinion, I have two trail of thoughts on it:

• A) Remove for all music related articles in their template, genres be it for a singer, single, album/EP etc. full stop as everyone disputes everything and it leads to confrontation.
• B) If option A is a no no, remove just house, country and Afrobeats, as she has only just dabbled in those genres, it could be argued that maybe Afrobeats can stay as she released two Afrobeats songs in 2013 ("Grown Woman" and "Walking on Sunshine") and did during the whole the Lion King era release music that was rooted in Afrobeats, but when I think of Beyoncé do I really think of her as an Afrobeats singer? No. She dabbled with house music for Act I: Renaissance but that was more akin to dance music that Robin S., CeCe Peniston, Donna Summer made than house music like Calvin Harris makes, country music, bar from 2016's "Daddy Lessons" and Act II: Cowboy Carter" she's not a country singer like Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, etc. she was paying homage on her trilogy to the other genres that originated from Black music, who's to say when Act III: Rockstar Revisited or whatever name she wants to call it, (I think mine's cute 🥰) will we be saying Beyoncé's music genres are R&B, pop, hip hop, house, country, Afrobeats and rock? Where will we draw the line? If she did a UK garage song or polka song will we add those genres too? I doubt it, all artists experiment with different genres so their music isn't labeled stale or samey-same, I think we should keep it too her three main genres which are R&B, pop and hip hop as those are her prominent genres and stuff she'll continue to make after the days of playing with different sounds. Sorry if I rambled a bit but that's my opinion. Justinaintime (talk) 18:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC) — Justinaintime (talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of MariaJaydHicky (talk · contribs). — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Two two editors who have contributed the most bytes to this discussion - Justinaintime and DollysOnMyMind - are both socks of indef blocked users. I can't muster up the enthusiasm to go through and strike/remove their contributions to this thread - can those of you who aren't evading blocks figure this out please? Pings to Ravenfate, Cullen328 and Koppite1, apologies if I've missed anyone (and to the IP editors I can't ping). Also, if any of you are evading indef blocks, please could you just say so and get it over with? (Come on Cullen, come clean...). Cheers Girth Summit _(blether) 11:39, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

OK, Girth Summit, I will take a shower. Even after 15 years of editing, I remain surprised at the massive volume of words that can be spouted on talk pages for negligible benefit to our readers. Cullen328 (talk) 18:14, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I have ✔done it. — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Just for clarity, the "it" that AP 499D25 has done is to go through and strike/remove their contributions to this thread, not to own up to block evasion. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh wow, I didn't mean that someone else should strike everything because I'm too lazy - I thought that striking it all would be pointless at this stage. I meant 'coukd the folk who aren't socks engage to decide what to do on the article'. Apologies for being vague. Girth Summit _(blether) 19:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Personally. i think the above sources provided should be adequate to at least change house to dance as per Ravenfate's initial request. If anyone thinks differently, then they need to say so (and because there seems to be a lot of sock puppets and ban evaders visiting this page, not sure how seriously to take IP address replies).

Re the whole topic of genre removals that was initiated by sock puppet DollysOnMyMind (see Admin noticeboard) and ip editors (who may or may not be ban evaders) - people have had enough time now to respond one way or another. So, if anyone feels strongly about the genre categories, then join in and constructively contribute. Otherwise, we leave things as they are and move on. Koppite1 (talk) 12:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2024

Change the photo 82.47.112.38 (talk) 15:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: What photo do you propose? It will need to be something freely licensed. RudolfRed (talk) 16:37, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Um shouldn’t soul funk and disco be included in genres instead of country she only made one country album 99.228.59.174 (talk) 17:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Genre change

Her genres should be R&B pop soul funk dance 99.228.59.174 (talk) 14:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Father

Is her dad called Mathew or Matthew? The article uses both spellings at random. Zxly (talk) 03:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Lemonade

Can we add in the lead that lemonade was the best selling album(in the world) in 2016 and is since rated one of the greatest albums. Also can we add in the lead that her debut album dangerously in love was one of the best selling in the 21st century. See Eminem or Christina Aguilera or Mariah Carey leads as an example. They all state if their albums were the best selling. 80.249.61.74 (talk) 13:52, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Birth name controversy: Beyoncé vs. Beyonce (accent vs. no accent)

I'm hoping to build consensus on whether and how to handle Beyoncé's birth name, specifically whether or not to include the accented final é. I am not seeking to relitigate whether to use the é in the article title or throughout the article nor which name to use as the article title and in the lead. These are settled questions and I agree with the way these are handled.

The info box lists Beyoncé's birth name as Beyonce Giselle Knowles, without the acute accent on the é at the end of her name. This is repeated in the early life section. The note offered as support for omitting the accent states: Naming laws in Texas do not allow accented characters (é). The linked article, Naming in the United States makes no mention of Texas. The relevant section of the Naming article only mentions California's prohibition on accents and other diacritics and then mentions a few states that do permit them. I see the issue has been raised here and here but there was not actually much discussion.

The second Talk page entry I linked states Naming laws in Texas do not allow accents in birth names. The linked Houston Chronicle article, from 2017, does state the following:

Letters of the alphabet, as printed on Texas documents like birth certificates and driver licenses, do not contain any extra symbols known as "diacritical marks," including accents, tildes, graves, umlauts and cedillas.

And then later goes on to say:

While existing state law doesn't prohibit including these marks on documents, it does not mandate adoption of software that would make their inclusion possible.

The Houston Chronicle and Naming articles are at best consistent with the assertion that unaccented Beyonce is what appears on her birth certificate, but this is hardly conclusive. Some legal documents and databases use all caps; does that mandate we style her birth name BEYONCE GISELLE KNOWLES? At present, the selective use of Beyonce looks odd and the support provided for this editorial decision is thin. (I would note that even if we did have a copy of her birth certificate, it would likely be considered inappropriate support per WP:BLPPRIMARY and MOS:FIRSTBIO.)

This warrants discussion, in accordance with general Wikipedia standards and because there is significant interest in Beyoncé's name, as evidenced by many discussions about various aspects of her name in the Talk page archives. (The two 'discussions' I linked where the only ones I found that specifically addressed the birth name, but here are many others addressing other issues with her name and what to name the article.)

I have looked around for guidance and so far have found none that addresses this particular issue. I have consulted MOS:NAME, including the subsection MOS:BIRTHNAME and these do not get to the issue at hand. Other guidance on name changes and maiden names is similarly not applicable to the question at hand. There is very little guidance at Template:Infobox_person. It says to include a birth_name only if different from the name. There are lots of discussions about what constitutes a material "difference" on the Talk page. I did not see the accent issue addressed, but the archive is voluminous.

I looked at the List of people from Texas for names with é. The typical practice is to either include the accented é in the birth_name parameter or to make no specific mention of the birth name. See below. (There were several people on the list who were born outside of Texas and I did not include them in my review. I did not look at other common forms like á and ñ.)

Birth name accented:
• Terra Jolé
• Renée Zellweger
• Flaco Jiménez
• Brené Brown
• Chris Pérez

Birth name not listed in Infobox or Early life section:
• Renée Elise Goldsberry
• Santiago Jiménez Jr.
• André Roberson
• Luis Jiménez (sculptor)

Unaccented name used:
• Maïté Schwartz (diacritics are omitted throughout the article)

Many reliable sources state that she was born Beyoncé Giselle Knowles, including Britannica and a different Houston Chronicle article than the one offered as support for omitting the é. My preference would be to use the é in her birth name. An alternative approach is leave her birth name out entirely. This would be better than having a poorly sourced, contentious styling that conflicts with the rest of the article, as we do currently. However, I am open to other perspectives and again, given the interest in what her "real" name is, I concede there may be encyclopedic value in addressing this in the article, with appropriate consensus and references. MYCETEAE - talk 21:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I have removed the birth name from the infobox and Early life section after leaving this up for 5 days with no response. See edit here. The birth name is poorly sourced and represents inappropriate synthesis by extrapolating from general sources about naming laws in the US and Texas to conclude what Beyoncé's birth name must be. This is against general WP standards. The high standards for biographies of living people demand that this be removed unless consensus and high quality sources can be found.

I note that the following hidden text following the birth name in the infobox and there was a similar comment at Early life:

<!--Do not replace the last "e" here with the accented "é".-->

Such instruction goes against the manual of style on hidden text. -- MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫— talk 16:04, 22 October 2024 (UTC)