Talk:Bianca Ryan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Question

Where can I find a voice clip of her singing? loulou 16:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

You can find video clips of her singing on YouTube.com. I have MP3's of her first and second performance, and I'd be glad to e-mail them to you. DarkAdonis255 23:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Her appeal

Her voice, although impressive considering her age, is only considered so perticularily special because of Americas racial steriotyping of thicker, soul esque voices usualy belonging to women of african american descent. 20 August 2006 Derik101

Ummm... if that's your opinion, then fine (but I disagree). However, unless you have a source with which you can make that claim a fact, it doesn't belong in the Wikipedia article, and this talk page is to discuss that article; not how much we like or dislike Bianca. DarkAdonis255 11:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)Bianca is a very smart wonderful voiced little girl!

Ellipses in Morgan's quote

Just as a further explanation of my most recent edit, writing style demands ellipses when snippets from a quote are presented as a single quote. Per the video (which may or may not have been edited prior to broadcast), Morgan's verbatim statement is, "Change your hair... change your dress... change your shoes... and you will win this tournament. (audience cheers) I— I have never... I have never heard a voice like that on an 11-year-old in my life! You came on this stage, and you blew us away!" RadioKirk (u|t|c) 02:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Brandy quote ellipses restored, same reason. Also, one of the most common mistakes in sentence structure is to assume that the parenthetical phrase is the noun subject; "none of the judges was impressed" is correct—"none" ("not one") is the noun phrase while "of the judges" is the parenthetical explanation of the noun phrase. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 03:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Another change to Brandy quote; technically accurate, serves the purpose and is not so clunky. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 03:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

OK. But it should use the actual ellipses: … instead of 3 periods. Arual

Probably :) I don't recall the code, though ;) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 12:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

GA

I have listed this article as a Good Article per the nomination. It seems to meet the qualifications. Please just ensure that all facts are always cited. Michael 01:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

One editor's "Criticisms"

On this page is the Philadelphia Inquirer editorial "A star is trained" (second item). In the first paragraph, the PI editoral staff notes that Ryan can be described with the words, "[l]ittle girl, big voice", and says we also can call the "talented singer" a "millionaire". Staff writers note that her father "put [Ryan] on the path to musical stardom after watching" Tiffany Evans win Star Search by sending his daughter to Evans' vocal coach, Sal Dupree, for lessons. "Dupree, you must conclude," reads the editorial, "knows just a little bit about voice coaching." Staff then congratulates Ryan and her family and wishes them luck "as they try to maintain their bearings in the topsy-turvy world of a child star."

Nowhere in this editorial is Shawn Ryan or his daughter criticized for his/her/their choices.

The anonymous editor at 121.6.49.x and later at 165.21.155.x insists on labeling this information under the heading "Criticisms", adding unsourced data in an effort to solidify his/her own conclusions. This is in direct violation of Wikipedia's guidelines on neutrality and original research and cannot be allowed to stand as written per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. If/when a recognized industry expert levels any criticisms, that (with appropriate citation) can stand.

Meantime, if this editor wishes to level his/her own criticisms, s/he is welcome to pay for a web host. Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, nor a soapbox, nor a web host. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 16:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

TV appearances

Is it necessary and encyclopedic to list all the talk shows that she's appeared on? That would be suitable for IMDB (which could use that info), probably not Wikipedia. Tinlinkin 08:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The bigger that list gets, the more I tend to agree; the problem is, culling it down requires a judgment call as to which are more notable. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 13:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

After reviewing similar articles, including some that are featured, I've removed the table in favor of a bullet list. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 16:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Christmas Everyday

Album data here (site requires Internet Explorer to view). RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

A note to those tracking album sales

It appears the 34,362 figure that a couple of editors have tried to add may indeed be accurate; however, because of Wikipedia's verifiability policy, it cannot be added yet. SoundScan is subscriber-only, and data lifted from there and posted to message boards or blogs has no editorial oversight; by necessity, we can only update that which we can freely verify. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 19:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

After further review, I'm going to consider this to be non-controversial data supported by a preponderance of evidence; all sources (including this one) cite the same figure and none cites a different one, even though no one site could on its own be considered reliable. If anyone feels I'm making the wrong decision here, feel free to revert me and explain on this page. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 01:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This edit is also based on the idea that non-controversial data can be supported by a preponderance of evidence: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, plus 5 more at this writing. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 21:18, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Same concept for 53,403. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 18:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Dutch Top 40 singles

What chart did her song appear in? According to the Dutch Top 40 number-one hits of 2006, Jan Smit's "Cupido" was #1 on the week of December 12. This contradicts something stated on the page for "Why Couldn't It Be Christmas Every Day?". Pink moon 1287^{(email•talk•user)} 19:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It's actually the Radio & Records Netherlands Top 20 Chart (which, naturally, has since been updated, and there's no obvious archive). I'll fix it straightaway. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Heritage, and why using the word "part"

An editor today changed "part" to "half" in reference to Miss Ryan's heritage. While I've reverted this per WP:RS, I thought I'd note why I used "part" in the first place: this article originally stated that Ryan is one-quarter Japanese because her mother is one-half Japanese; however, the cited source did not back up the claim and, to date, I can find no other. Jeannie O'Sullivan of the Northeast Times suggested it was factual when she wrote that Ryan has "exotic almond eyes that reveal the Japanese fraction of her mostly Irish heritage", but she didn't specify the "fraction". Now you know. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Prodigy

An anonymous editor today removed "child prodigy" from the article, claiming she's not. I've restored "prodigy" ("child prodigy" is redundant) based on this from Merriam-Webster:

2 b : a highly talented child or youth

and this from dictionary.com:

1. a person, esp. a child or young person, having extraordinary talent or ability: a musical prodigy

and this from the American Heritage Dictionary:

1. A person with exceptional talents or powers: a math prodigy

RadioKirk (u|t|c) 15:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that a reasonable argument could be made for removing prodigy, based on the criteria you outline above--"exceptional" and "extraordinary" are inherantly judgemental terms, particularly when appraising the arts.RyanGrant 05:53, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I must disagree; a judgmental term such as "prodigy" does indeed require sufficient presentation and, as I read it, both audience and critical reaction in appraisal of this particular artist beg for its inclusion. —ATinySliver | talk 06:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Footnote error

Note 8 in the Footnotes section contains this message: "^ Cite error: Invalid 'ref' tag; no text was provided for refs named dancer "

This needs to be fixed. Tweisbach (talk) 06:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.220.195 (talk) 06:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

From a copy of the wikipedia article at http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bianca-Ryan , this appears reference to be a philly.com article that no longer exists that the specified location <http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/living/16006910.htm>. That article appears to be copied at <http://streetbrand.blogspot.com/2007/02/10-reasons-why-we-love-bianca-ryan_25.html>. Tweisbach (talk) 06:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal Section

>> At age seven, Ryan developed a preference in the R&B and gospel music genres, and recalls practicing in her family's basement only to hear her father ask, "How did you learn to sing like that?" Neighbor Denise Bauchens told the Northeast News Gleaner that while she was sweeping her patio one day in 2004, heard Ryan's voice.[6]

>> For the 2006-2007 academic year, Ryan was a sixth-grader at School Lane Charter School in Bensalem Township, Pennsylvania. "I'm in school most of the time," she said, "and keep up on my work when I have to go on the road."

I don't think "facts" like these should be included in an encyclopedia, let alone a "good article". I didn't want to change it without asking for you guys' opinion first :)

Huge thanks

To the editor who placed the sound clip from Ryan's audition at age eleven on her page-- Well done! Sometimes those little additions make all the difference, inspiring readers to check out more than what is on the page. Same goes for great editors who word things in ways that leave you wanting more, and good photos that enhance the text! Thank you! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 16:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Why does the link look screwy?—ATinySliver | talk 06:11, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Found it, nvm. —ATinySliver | talk 05:41, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Bianca Ryan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I will be doing the GA Reassessment on this article per the GA Sweeps project. H1nkles (talk) 18:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Here are my concerns with the article:

• Links 9 and 15 in the references section are dead. H1nkles (talk) 18:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
• The lead is very undeveloped. Per WP:LEAD the lead is to be a summary of the entire article, touching on every point in a summary fashion. The lead does not do that.
• The Biography section has several unreferenced assertions that would need in-line cites. I added a template to one sentence but this would apply to several sentences in this section.
• In the television sub-section there is a list of shows that she has appeared on. Two problems: There are no dates for her appearance in the first three shows but there are for the rest, this is inconsistent, also there is no reference for this information, or for any information in this section. That is a bigger problem.
• The Discography section also has no references.
• All the information ends in 2007, is there anything more recent? What has she done since 2007?

Considering the myriad of problems with this article I will delist it from GA status. If someone wants to fix the problems and update the article please do so and list at WP:GAC for consideration for GA. H1nkles (talk) 19:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to do some work here and there—when I get to it... xD—ATinySliver | talk 06:13, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

My edits and the future

I'm going to see if I can't get this article back to W:GA status, at least. Please feel free to let me and/or other editors know what you feel is missing/wrong/fixable/etc. —ATinySliver | talk 05:41, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Getting there *whew* (my eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyes... O_O xD) —ATinySliver | talk 07:24, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bianca Ryan/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cloudz679 (talk · contribs) 06:25, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• I will be reviewing this nomination. C679 06:25, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

There seems like rather a lot to do here, placing the review on hold in order that the following may be sorted out:

Prose

• The prose isn't currently "clear and concise". Sometimes quoted and non-quoted material function seamlessly in a sentence, which is not correct. Mixing of first person and third person makes for difficult reading, e.g. ""she was mostly ignored by other students. "I made no friends" until after school was over." and "she wanted to "live a life, and have purpose and things to write about, because I'm so passionate about writing music now."" and "she "could use an acting coach ... but, see, I'm honest.""

• Fixed.

• The lead doesn't mention her being an actress, but the body (including the infobox) does

• Fixed.

• "a "huge" fan of the Rolling Stones" quote is not necessary, the sense is conveyed by the context

• Fixed.

• ""I had never even experimented with singing" until she was eight years old and started enjoying LeAnn Rimes and country music."

• Fixed.

• "shocked Shawn Ryan" her father?

• Fixed.

• "literal walk-off appearance"

• Fixed.

• "In a video recorded during Live Nation's Nextfest tour, she wished "the best of luck" to the top two finalists." seems to be quotation overuse per Wikipedia:Quotations

• Fixed.

• "Exactly one week after her victory" needs context as the opening line of the section

• Fixed.

• "the album broke in at No. 57"

• Fixed.

• ""I made no friends" until after school was over."

• Fixed.

• "Ryan told fanlala.com in February that she's working with industry veterans like Quincy Jones on a new EP "with music that’s completely written by me. ... It’s more mainstream than anything I’ve written before."[34] She calls her style a blend of "neo soul, kind of R&B-pop sound".[35]"

• Fixed.

• "a summer-long gig" gig as in "festival"?

• Fixed.

• "Ryan, Long and Pryce" shouldn't this be "and Watkins"?

• Changed to just Pryce per designation on official poster art.

• "In 2012, she joined the cast of We Are Kings, an independent, crowdsourced feature film in which two homeless musicians (played by Ryan and blues artist Jonathon Boogie Long) and a runaway rapper (Pryce Watkins) join forces with an elder bluesman, playing gigs in an effort to raise the money needed to send him back home to save his comatose wife and their repossessed blues club." this sentence is too long and should be split into more manageable sentences

• Fixed.

• Unsure why unreferenced and apparently uncharting EPs are in a table.

• All within the body; if memory serves, charting is unnecessary for an artist's discography to be all-inclusive.

Referencing

• I have concerns about the reliance of much of the content on Youtube videos, in particular those released through Ryan's own account.

• I've tried to keep that to a minimum, but some of her more recent updates are self-produced or -uploaded.

• "By December 2014, an early upload of Ryan's audition had topped the 11-million-views mark at YouTube.[15]" fn15 mentions January 2007?

  Yes, date of original upload. See also next reply.

• Some of the Youtube references do not link to the videos

  Unfortunately, per WP:COPYVIO, they cannot. The unique identifier for each video is included within an invisible comment in the article. Again, I've tried to keep this to a minimum, and for non-controversial data.

• Chart positions for what appears to be her only album are not fully referenced (criteria 2b)

• Working on it. (Edit: ref "BRcharts" cites all with no visible cite; see accompanying invisible comment [there are 12 such comments total].)

• "she impressed the judges and shocked Shawn Ryan, who had "never heard her sing like that."[12]" The only mention of Shawn Ryan at fn 12 is that he is her General Manager

• Fixed.

• what makes about.com a reliable source?

• Fixed.

• "a summer-long gig at the Atlantic City Trump Plaza." unreferenced

• Fixed.

Broad

• There seem to be big holes, released a song in 2010 then had an interview 2 years later, then another 2 years before the next thing.

• Explained in the text; time off for school. (Edit: minor rewrite.)

Neutrality

• Quite a lot of the material is closely connected with the subject, e.g. from her own youtube channel. Should be checked again after the identified issues have been addressed.

• It would be nice (); I'll keep looking.

Stability

• The nominator appears to still be putting this article together, which makes reviewing difficult. Since I may be using a version which pre-dates some of these edits, some of these observations may already have been addressed. Ideally, the article should be ready to be reviewed at the time the nomination is made. I would ask the nominator for notification when the article is ready to be looked at again, following the addressing of issues mentioned here.

• Agreed; in my defense, I was swamped with work and another GAN (and some of the edits came as a result of what I'd learned during that GAN); these can take months so I thought I had time.

Images

• Licenses are suitable, captions are ok. C679 15:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you again for taking this on. There are a few potential issues I'm still researching. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 02:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Update: I believe everything is addressed for the moment; looking forward to pass 2. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 23:54, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• Further comments:
• "Her singing talent came as something of a surprise" to whom?
• "She had not attempted to sing until she was eight years old" did not attempt
• "Ryan convinced him" Ryan appears to be Shawn Ryan in this context, but I have a feeling it refers to Bianca. Use of first names could be justified here.
• "Ryan ultimately lost to Spensha Baker" does this mean in the final?

• All of the above fixed.

• is internet still capitalised?

• Yes.

• "showcasing "her gargantuan chops and sweet charm"" doesn't seem to be attributed, doesn't add any value to the prose

• Per Matt Collar (please don't forget the invisible comments citing multiple sentences). That being said, for the sake of clarity, I changed "believed" to "added" and, yes, I believe this adds to the prose.

• "vocal talent."."
• "Still, "I wanted to live a life, and have purpose and things to write about, because I'm so passionate about writing music now."" this still has the third person/first person issue discussed above.

• Both fixed.

• "Her acting debut was a walk-off appearance in the 2005 film 12 and Holding; her character is shown at a school function singing the final line of "Oh! Susanna", thanking the audience, and leaving the stage.[14]" this could be better placed in the "acting" section, to give better context to the current opening clause "Ryan returned to acting in 2010"

• Fixed; of couse, this leaves a one-sentence graf that would not pass a theoretical FAC.

• Do youtube videos "with no authorization data" qualify as reliable sources?

C679 06:50, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

• I believe this constitutes non-controversial data that helps flesh out the narrative. (Edit: the passage with respect to "Piece of My Heart" has been particularly difficult to source, because so many news agencies picked up on an error–that the judges loved it. The audience loved it, but the judges were unanimously critical, several copies of this video exist but none authorized [that I can find].) —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 07:53, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Update: aaaaaaaaand they're gone. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 20:21, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

• The article is definitely in much better shape. Why is the film We Are Kings later referred to in the lead (and again in the acting section) as Kings? Would suggest "the film/movie". The sentence "She did not attempt singing until she was eight years old" is probably not suitable. Is there any child who didn't try to sing at some early stage? "In the end, Ryan lost to Spensha Baker.[13]" This is something I had a question about earlier, it is still not clear to me. Was this loss during the final of the competition, or in the first round, or at some other point? "She would later win" - She later won. "Her first concert tour" Ryan's first… Last thing, the File:BR AGT audition.ogg description appears to be in need of a little updating, in particular the info about the clip length. That should be all. C679 17:28, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

• All fixed. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 19:26, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Listed

My thanks to Cloudz679 for your invaluable efforts in returning this article to GA status! Cheers! —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 23:23, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Birth date

I have made requests for corrections to AllMusic and iTunes, which per Ms. Ryan's heavy social-media presence yesterday clearly have the date incorrect. Once those are fixed, I'll fix the article. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage  20:04, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Bianca Ryan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://articles.philly.com/2006-08-18/news/25396178_1_local-girl-bianca-ryan-mayfair
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131230233823/http://www.anthonymarinelli.com/Anthony_Marinelli/Albums_True_Meaning_of_Christmas.html to http://www.anthonymarinelli.com/Anthony_Marinelli/Albums_True_Meaning_of_Christmas.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150111042750/http://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/multimedia/v_-the_ultimate_variety_show_at_trump_plaza_-97685179.html to http://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/multimedia/v_-the_ultimate_variety_show_at_trump_plaza_-97685179.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:36, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Checked. ATS (talk) 17:30, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Audio clip

... was removed with the summary "fails NFCC#8". I vehemently disagree.

Point 8 states, "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." The audio clip does precisely that: until recently, a reader would not be unduly surprised to read that an 11-year-old won a nationwide (and nationally televised) talent competition—until same reader hears the clip of her voice from that competition. (I say "until recently" given the victories of Grace VanderWaal and Darcie Lynn more than ten years later.) ATS (talk) 22:48, 5 October 2018 (UTC)