Talk:Biblical unitarianism

More concise intro paragraph needed

This article could really use a nice concise definition of what the term actually means at the beginning. I came here trying to find out and was quite confused at first and had to really pick through it. It seems to presuppose a level of knowledge about the topic which most people would not have, in my opinion. Thanks --91.107.201.107 (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Is it any better now? --Woofboy (talk) 22:10, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I find that the disambiguation page offers more confusing propagandism than real disambiguation; and I can see no rational point in separating Biblical Unitarianism from Unitarianism 'as a Christian theology'. Together, these articles seem not to provide an encyclopedic understanding of the subject while overtly arguing for particular interests and belief-systems. However, few Wikipedians take any interest in the subject, and I myself have no axe to grind other than wanting to see a comprehensible treatment. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 03:41, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Fair comment - myself and then 2 other Unitarian editors went to Unitarianism (disambiguation) and hopefully fixed what you point out in the week following above comment. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Jehovah's Witnesses?

I have known Christadelphians to assert that Jehovah's Witnesses copied their theology. While I don't necessarily support this viewpoint, if the theologies of the two are so similar that some would think that, what excludes Jehovah's Witnesses from this categorization? I don't see anything on this page that would seem to disqualify them, and wonder whether the description is deficient, or they were omitted mistakenly. Is it the time-span separating them from the Unitarian movement, that they didn't learn their theology from Unitarianism, that they were they forgotten, or??? Downstrike (talk) 02:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello Downstrike. That sounds like a misunderstanding, not theology but prophecy: There's presumably some evidence that Charles Taze Russell's views on a revival of the State of Israel were derived from exposure to Christadelphians (judging by footnote in James Irvin Lichti Houses on the sand?: pacifist denominations in Nazi Germany 2008 p202), though these are views of Russell's which Jehovah's Witness' reject. But Russell's Christology was Arian not Socinian/Unitarian, it's unlikely that anyone would claim that an Arian group copied their theology from a Socinian/Unitarian one. There were various Arian groups around in the MidWest in the 1870s, and most of Russell's other views were learnt from Millerites George Storrs and George Stetson. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 19:53, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Do I understand correctly that the qualification for Unitarianism that Jehovah's Witnesses lack, is a Socinian background? Downstrike (talk) 01:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for thanks. Yes, either Socinian/Unitarian background (historical linkage) and/or Socinian/Unitarian Christology (doctrinal linkage). See History of Unitarianism. Cheers.In ictu oculi (talk) 01:39, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Temporarily moved out Italy

Italy

In Italy the Biblical Unitarian Movement powered by the ideas of Sozzini and others is represented today by the churches associated with the Christian Church in Italy. This movement in Italy claims a strong Christian and biblical soul. From the analysis of documents that you can find on the official site of the CCI, it is clear that the doctrinal position of this Christian confession of faith is therefore akin to the so-called Biblical Unitarian movement and on the other hand, far from that of Unitarian Universalist Association who, although they have the same origin in 1500 AD, through the centuries have suffered the influence of many non-biblical ideas (cf. Universalism). The Christian Church in Italy has significant similarities with the Biblical Unitarian movement, although it maintains a cautious position on some doctrinal points. Wilbur wrote about the Unitarian Movement: "The religious movement whose history we are endeavoring to trace... became fully developed in thought and polity in only four countries, one after another, namely Poland, Transylvania, England and America. But in each of these it showed, along with certain individual characteristics, a general spirit, a common point of view, and a doctrinal pattern that tempt one to regard them as all outgrowths of a single movement which passed from one to another; for nothing could be more natural than to presume that these common features implied a common ancestry. Yet such is not the fact, for in each of these four lands the movement, instead of having originated elsewhere, and been translated only after attaining mature growth, appears to have sprung independently and directly from its own native roots, and to have been influenced by other and similar movements only after it had already developed an independent life and character of its own.". From the analysis of documents that you can find on the official site of the CCI, it is clear that the doctrinal position of this Christian confession of faith is therefore akin to the so-called Biblical Unitarian movement and on the other hand, far from that of Unitarian Universalist Association who, although they have the same origin in 1500 AD, through the centuries, have suffered the influence of many non-biblical ideas (cf. Universalism).

The Christian Church in Italy believes that God is only one person in direct contrast with the doctrine of the Trinity, which defines God as three coexisting persons in one substance (essence), merged into one being. So CCI adheres to strict monotheism by believing that Jesus was a perfect and holy man, virginally begotten in Mary, the promised Christ, the Son of God and that, as the glorified man, now is at the right hand of God praying for the whole Church.

The movement from which the Christian Church in Italy was inspired rejects other doctrines taught for centuries, including the soteriological doctrines of original sin and predestination. The CCI for its peculiarity has no common trait with other religious movements which exalt Jesus as the only true God, as for example the Oneness Pentecostalism, the United Pentecostal Church International and the True Jesus Church.

Reasons for moving out the above section

With the best will in the world I can't see that the Chiesa Cristiana in Italia deserves to occupy such a large space in this article. Judging from the Italian web page this is a recent split of less than a dozen members from an Assemblies of God group in Italy, and has no printed source evidence for their existence. This article should really be 2/3 or 3/4 about the original conservative Unitarians that held on to early Unitarian biblical-literalism during the 1750-1900 period. Then 1/3 or 1/4 about any print-source-notable remnant or revival groups looking to John Biddle (Unitarian) type figures. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:49, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Hear hear. So many of these articles become unbalanced and top-heavy. You did the right thing. BrainyBabe (talk) 14:50, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Reasons for moving in (reintegrate) the above section

Dear friends I believe you are in error. The Christian Church in Italy is the only exponent in Italy of biblical Unitarian movement (Michael Servetus, Fausto and Elio Socini). There are Not a dozen believers but many more throughout Italy. Many follow the site and the radio of Christian Church in Italy. Even in Europe many people follow with interest this church. Since the page talks about Biblical Unitarianism I believe that rightfully it should be reintegrated a page dedicated to Italy.--13:36, 15 December 2014 (UTC)Maurizio.morandi-1970 (talk)

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Balance in 'Early Unitarians and the Bible'

The first paragraph of this section reads like somebody arguing for Unitarianism.

Given that this is a disputed topic which has been written on in hundreds of published Bible commentaries by people on both sides of the fence, the claim that “Both Old Testament and New Testament describe a Unitarian theology” does not proportionally represent “the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.”

The language “The simple statements of the Bible are consistently…” is also unbalanced (and possibly constitutes OR?) – a sentence to the effect of “Unitarian thinkers such as (insert theologian) have appealed to passages such as (x) to argue (y)” would be more accurate.


SamuelTheMuso (talk) 22:33, 6 January 2022 (UTC)