Talk:Bill Shankly

Denis Law prediction

On the Denis Law page it says he was transferred to Torino for 110,000 pounds. Should this not be listed as a fulfillment of the prediction then, instead of just the later move back to England with Manchester United? Icedwater (talk) 20:14, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Untitled

Added stuff re. early years, now to do Glenbuck

Life and death Quote

The version of the "life and death" quote here is different to that on Wikiquote. Would someone be able to track down which one is right? -- Hongooi 12:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The one that was here is the correct version. I fixed the WikiQuote version (which someone had changed from the correct version last year) Jooler 12:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Subsequent events (Heysel, Hillsborough) have made this remark much less quotable of course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haroldsomers (talk • contribs) 11:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Boot Room

Don't mean to be pedantic, but why is the anfield boot room referreed to as being infamous - the word infamous infers negativity, or being for the wrong reasons. Surely just the word famous (or even legendary no doubt in some people's eyes) would suffice more. Given how many trophies were won by the members of that boot room, it's hardly infamous by any stretch of the imagination is it? 86.11.80.36 17:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

DoD

The date of Shankly's death on this page differs with that on this one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_8. I don't know for certain what the correct date of his passing was. In any case, being new to the whole wikipedia experience I am reluctant to change anything until i am familiar with the formats and markup tags used. Either way, one of these pages requires changing - would somebody mind doing the honours? Amcdermott 11:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The date was changed with this edit - 29th is correct accoring to the Dictionary of National Biography. Q: "On 26 September 1981 Shankly was admitted to Broadgreen Hospital, Liverpool, following a heart attack; he died there on 29 September" Jooler 12:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Liverpool reserves Quote

Is this quote exactly right.

• When asked what he thought about the team on the other side of Stanley Park he replied "There are only two teams in Liverpool; Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves". Should it not be "There are two great teams in Liverpool; Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. The joke being, the interviewer was expecting him to mention Everton F.C. Djln --Djln 22:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Manager stats

Stats for his time at Workington are missing from the table. Soccerbase doesn't have them, so if anyone can add them that would be useful. WikiGull 21:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Interfering with play Quote

I believe the quote about not interfering with play is actually from Brian Clough rather than Shankly. Can anyone confirm? Haroldsomers 11:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Retirement

The truth of the matter is, much to their shame, Shanks wasn't really welcome at Melwood after his retirement, and he was much more likely to pop into Bellefield, opposite his house. Admitting this would undermine much of his famed hatred of Everton, but in reality he was respectful and much respected, unlike the current incumbent. Haroldsomers —Preceding comment was added at 11:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm tired of Everton or Man U fans trying to deface this page with blatant lies regarding Shank's relationship with the club after retirement, he was loved and still is by all associated with the club. Regardless of your allegiance, please be respectful of a great ambassador of the game and remember that this is supposed to be a free repository where people can try and find the truth —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevetorrens (talk • contribs) 10:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Just as a matter of interest, have you ever read Shankly's autobiography? It appears not. You should seek out a copy, you'd find it very interesting. He certainly isn't complimentary about the way he was treated by the club after his retirement. I have no idea if some Everton and Man United fans have been vandalising the page with falsehoods but if youre under the impression that any suggestion that the club treated Shankly in a less than respectful manner after his retirement must be "blatant lies" then I'm afraid that the "lies" originate with Shankly himself - it's all in his book, including the claim above that he was largely unwelcome at Melwood after his retirement and spent more time at Bellefield. And frankly that's the least of it. Find a copy. 92.9.195.214 (talk) 00:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Bill Shankly knighted

I don't believe Bill Shankly was ever knighted. Banaticus (talk) 23:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Scotland caps, 5 or 7 ?

At the start of the article it says he played 7 times for Scotland but the stats box says 5 ? which is right —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.247.137 (talk) 13:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Quotations section

I believe this section should be removed and some (and only some) of his more notable quotations should be merged into the narrative where relevant with an accompanying citation. My impression of the article is that it is more about what he might or might not have said than what he achieved. I would suggest that his autobiography is used to create a basic narrative of his early years, playing career and managerial career, all of which are presently too brief. This can then be enhanced and expanded by reference to other works. --Brian (talk) 06:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

In addition, I cannot agree with the "C-class" rating applied. My reading of the criteria tells me this is merely a "start-class" article. Start is "an article that is developing, but which is quite incomplete and may require further reliable sources". That is definitely the case here. Looking at additional criteria, the only one it fulfils is "fundamental content policies such as notability" but it fails badly re sources and the amount of meaningful content. The final requirement is: "Provision of references to reliable sources should be prioritised; the article will also need substantial improvements in content and organisation". That is equally the case and the article must be reassessed. I have Bill Shankly's autobiography and I'll make a start on content and organisation using that, as mentioned above. --Brian (talk) 06:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

The article has just been nominated for GA following a near-complete revision. I checked its current standard against a set of criteria used elsewhere on the site and I reckon it passes them all so I've rated it B-class now. --Brian (talk) 19:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bill Shankly/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lemonade51 (talk · contribs) 13:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

General

• No issues with imaging
• No problems with the reliability of sources
• No dead links, nor dab links for that matter
• Author needed on Ref 76
• Date needed on Ref 110
• Ref 148 was published in The Observer, not The Guardian
• Have attached citation tags which need addressing.

Lead

• The article does not comply with WP:LEAD, as far as I'm aware of. As a generalised point, the lead should act as summary for the entire article. If done successfully, it will draw the reader into wanting to read the rest. The concern is with the first paragraph, which is just a brief sentence. I would advise you having a look at a model article; Arsène Wenger for one, was just passed recently, Bobby Robson currently is a FA.

Early life

• coal mining does not need to be hypenated
• "As Shankly related", is that the right word to use?
• "there were only twelve houses left including a cottage", place comma between 'left' and 'including'.
• "Bill's parents", should that be "Shankly's parents", therefore you can remove the Shankly in "John and Barbara Shankly"
• Per WP:YEAR, it should be 1902–1972, not 1902–72 as they are different decades. This goes for the other brothers.
• Remove comma in "Robert and William Blyth, were"
• "He admits that he and his friends used to steal vegetables from nearby farms; bread, biscuits and fruit from suppliers' wagons; and bags of coal from the pits", improper use of semicolons I would have thought. Best to replace it with commas.
• "Shankly admits it was wrong", replace 'it' with 'the act'
• "He was at school from the age of five till he was fourteen", perhaps you use 'until' instead of 'till'.
• "Discipline was strict", at school? at home? Clarify.
• "He did this for two years until the pit closed and he faced unemployment." needs ref
• "Shankly says" → "Shankly said"
• "a optimist" → "an optimist"

Carlisle United

• "In his 1976 autobiography, Shankly stated: "I've still got the medal" ", not sure if that is needed, but I suppose it'll do for now. Does the autobiography have anything about him reflecting his time at Carlisle?

Preston North End

• Not sure if 'but' is needed in "But he made his first-team debut..."
• first team does not require hyphen
• "Shankly created an early goal to help Preston win 5–0 and earn him some praise" → "Shankly created an early goal to help Preston win 5–0, earning him praise"
• "With his wholehearted attitude and commitment to the team, he quickly established himself as a first-team regular and became a crowd favourite." needs ref
• "Preston were unfazed by playing in the First Division", unless there is a ref to back this up, it can do with rephrasing. Reads a tad sports journalese.
• "Preston were back at Wembley a year later", in the same competition?

Scotland

• Replace comma with semicolon in "...against England at Wembley, Scotland winning the match 1–0..."

Management career

• Grimsby Town: Replace semicolon with comma in "only one team was promoted from Division Three North; with one from Division Three South"
• Grimsby Town: "The fives games" → "The games"
• Liverpool section generally well written. "Coupled with the roar of the crowd, it was designed to intimidate." and "Shankly admitted he thought the final was lost" need citations.

Retirement from Liverpool

• "which was that he didn't win the European Cup" avoid contrations → did not.

Later years and death

• "On the day of Shankly's death, training was cancelled at both Melwood and Bellefield." and "The Labour Party conference stood in a minute's silence for a man who had always been a socialist." need citations.

These are the only issues I could find for now. Otherwise, a very well written and readable article. On hold for seven days. – Lemonade51 (talk) 13:08, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Given there has been no response from the nominator from the time I have put this on hold till now, with regret I am failing this article. Lemonade51 (talk) 18:39, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Renominated for GAN

I have just worked through the suggestions left by the reviewer and believe this article can be renominated. All suggestions have been implemented in the article. --86.186.70.127 (talk) 15:24, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bill Shankly/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Meetthefeebles (talk · contribs) 14:25, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll review. Before I do so, I notice that the article was nominated by an IP, rather than a registered user. Can I just check that there is someone available to respond to any issues? A little note on this page will suffice...Meetthefeebles (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I have an hour spare after work here, so I'll make a start:

• Disambiguation Links: None found
  
• Dead Links: All fine on the checking tool, will comment further when spot-checking refs later.
  
• Quick Fail issues: No evidence of edit-warring, lots of references, no cleanup banners that I can see at first read, no ongoing content issues (subject has been dead for decades now).
  
• Images: The infobox image is licensed under the fair use license and is probably okay, the memorial image is from geograph and is fine, the Shankly scarf img is also fair use licensed and is probably okay (though the link to the original source is dead) and the Shankly statute img is from flickr and is fine as licensed.

Okay, I'll work my way through the article and add comments below:

• The lead is okay, but I'd like to see some mention perhaps of his early life. If it relevant and interesting enough to have a detailed section on it (and it is, having now read it), then a note in the lead might be best. Suggest adding something to the start of paragraph two? (Something like "Shankly, one of five brothers who played football professionally, was a ball winning right hal..." or somthing similar)
• FA Cup is blue-linked twice in the lead. Once will suffice and one should be removed. Ditto Football League First Division (per WP:OVERLINK).
• Suggest slight rewrite to sentence "Shankly's parents, John and Barbara lived in one of the Auchenstilloch Cottages with their family of ten, five boys and five girls" Perhaps "Shankly's parent, John and Barbara, lived in one of the Auchenstilloch Cottages with their ten children; five boys and five girls."?
• I don't think postman needs to be blue-linked. Suggest removal.
• "Preston recovered by reaching the 1938 FA Cup Final in which they defeated Huddersfield Town 1–0 with a penalty scored by George Mutch in the final minute of extra time." Suggest a slight rewrite to start of the sentence (I'm not sure a team recovers by reaching a cup final two years after losing one); "Preston recovered to reach the..." would be better I think?
• Can we add his boxing weights to a conversion template and state in pounds and kg instead of stones? Perhaps use 159 pounds (72 kg) and 6 pounds (2.7 kg)? This would assist the reader not familiar with British imperial measurements of weight.
• Suggest blue-linking WRAF.
• "The great Tom Finney": this is probably WP:PEACOCK (though as a football fan I agree that Tom Finney was, in fact, great!), and the peacock word should be removed.
• Remove the 'But' from the sentence "But Shankly's departure from Preston was resented...".
• Another small suggestion: "He made a speculative shot goalwards from 50 yards and the ball bounced over the England goalkeeper's head and into the net." "Making a speculative shot" sounds a bit odd; suggest simply "He took a speculative shot goalwards..."
• This little section is a little odd. On the one hand, Shankly's goal does sound unusual, but to describe it as "probably the strangest national goal ever" seems like hyperbole even if the source is reliable (and this one seems to be, just). I'm also not really sure what the 'Joe Mercer identification on the tele' adds to the article or why his having spotted him is notable or deserving of a quotation stating that he was so spotted.
• "Shankly was famous for his dedication to football. For example, during the summer of 1933 after completing his first season as a professional, he returned to Glenbuck where he continued to do his own training. Being an early exponent of the long throw-in he would practice by throwing balls over a row of houses and getting the small boys of the village to fetch them back for him" This sentence is a verbatim reproduction of a paragraph in the source material (at ref.23) and requires an urgent rewrite using close paraphrasing (and maintaining the reference link to the original) to prevent a copyright issue arising.
• Where in ref.53 does it state anything to the effect that "Without him, Carlisle slipped back into non-contention"? That sentence either needs some proper support or should be removed.
• I am not sure that "pick up a few bargain buys" is an encyclopedic phrase. Suggest a slight rewrite; "some players for low transfer fees" or similar, perhaps?
• "but finished second, only three points...": the 'only' is a touch WP:PEACOCK and borderline contrary WP:NPOV. Suggest removal.
• "Shankly insisted that his Grimsby team was: "Pound for pound, and class for class, the best football team I have seen in England since the war. In the league they were in they played football nobody else could play. Everything was measured, planned and perfected and you could not wish to see more entertaining football". This seems odd considering his team had were playing in the third division and had failed to win promotion; is it likely that Shankly's view that his side was that good is reliable? I think Bill might have been a little biased in his view here and for balance a reliable, third party viewpoint on the merits of his Grimsby side would help ensure WP:NPOV
• "Shankly also had...a successful method of counter-attacking from corners conceded..." Again, is Bill a reliable source on how 'successful' his own counter-attacking method was? A reliable, third party source would be much better here.
• Just reading "Grimsby had an ageing team which finished a disappointing 5th in 1952–53 after a bright start." highlights my concern re: the early 'pound for pound and class for class' quote. Either they played football no-one else could play, measured planned and perfected (in Bill's opinion) or they were an ageing side who failed again to win promotion the very next season (in Kelly's opinion). It is difficult to see how they can be both.
• "Although Workington is a remote place in football terms": this could do with a reference.
• "But Workington operated on a shoestring..." The 'But' is superfluous- suggest removal.
• "The situation led to "numerous arguments"." This sentence lacks context: with who was he arguing? The manager of the rugby team? The players? The board?
• Describing Ray Wilson and Dennis Law as 'outstanding' is again probably WP:PEACOCK: the source doesn't describe them as such (even if I would agree that both did become very good players). Suggest removal of 'outstanding'.
• There is nothing in the source at ref.68 which supports "Another outstanding prospect in his team was left back Ray Wilson who went on to become Huddersfield's most capped player before joining Everton."

Okay, I've managed to get as far as the start of his Liverpool days and there are a few issues above to consider. In light of the above, and the fact that the nomination came from an IP address, I'll stop here and wait for a response from the nominator. Meetthefeebles (talk) 23:03, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I was the nominator. I like your review which is much more detailed than the previous one. This has the potential to be a good article but we need to iron out the creases and I admit there are many of those as the article was really a draft that needed more than one review to get it right. My aim is to get the article to at least GA standard before Bill's birth centenary next year. If we can make it better than GA, who knows, it could one day make FA. So, happy to work with you and I'll make a start now. All the best.

By the way, geolocate my IP and you will find it is both unerringly accurate (though only I know that) and not a million miles from Glenbuck. --81.132.89.114 (talk) 19:49, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

These questions and concerns were very easily resolved and I have addressed all of them in agreement with the points raised. Please check what I have done and let me know if any of the changes are not what you envisaged. Meanwhile, I look forward to your review of Shankly's career at Liverpool. Thank you very much for your time and diligence. --81.132.89.114 (talk) 20:39, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, the IP makes sense now! I'm otherwise engaged in another review at this very moment but I have an afternoon off work tomorrow so will look over the changes and continue my review then. I enjoyed reading the article to half-way and look forward to finishing it off tomorrow :) Meetthefeebles (talk) 21:14, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay, let's crack on here...

• "The training ground at Melwood was "a shambles" and the club was overburdened with average players, though with some excellent prospects in the reserves". This sentence is dangerous close to a word-for-word copy of the source and in any event isn't very encyclopedic. Suggest a rewrite: perhaps "The Liverpool squad inherited by Shankly consisted largely of average players and some promising reserves."
• Try to avoid starting sentences with a 'but'.
• This 'kinship' sentence isn't especially encyclopedic. I'd suggest a rewrite: perhaps "In spite of the difficulties he inherited, Shankly felt immediately at home in his new club and he believed that he shared an immediate bond with the supporters." or similar?
• To avoid repetition of 'immediately', change the immediately in the next sentence to 'quickly'?
• "The importance of Shankly's relationship with Paisley cannot be overstated"– this sentence is borderline contrary to WP:NPOV and can be removed as a more encyclopedic explanation immediately follows it.
• Whilst I completely agree that the LFC boot room was indeed 'legendary', WP:PEACOCK prevents the use of that word so it will have to come out.
• "Although Shankly found he had a great team on the coaching side, the team on the pitch had major problems." This reads a little journalistic and might be better with a slight rewrite. Perhaps "Although Shankly believed he had inherited an excellent coaching staff, the playing staff were not so impressive– indeed, Shankly said of the latter..." and then lead into the quote you have provided?
• Again, the next sentence could be more encyclopedic– 'deadwood' isn't a particularly neutral term, for example. Perhaps "To deal with what he saw as a below average playing squad, twenty four players were placed on the transfer list and all of these had left the club within one year."
• I would add a little context to the "Liverpool's eventual success was based..." by starting with "According to author Stephen Kelly, Liverpool's eventual success..."
• Suggest adding 'at' between 'the' and 'heart' in the sentence "5-a-sides were at the heart of..."
• Suggest changing 'experimentation' to simply 'experimenting'.
• Instead of 'which thereafter became the basis', suggest simplifying to 'which formed the basis'?
• I think Littlewoods could be blue linked?
• When did Sawyer join the board? The sentence as is reads a little vague, so a year would be nice or even 'had recently been appointed to the Liverpool F.C. board'?
• "the tune was still..." isn't especially encyclopedic. Suggest rewrite to 'the board's initial response was that..." or similar? Also, removed the word 'outstanding' to describe the players as this violates WP:NPOV
• Not sure how a team can be "ready for promotion" so suggest a slight rewrite. Otherwise, this paragraph is fine.
• I word slightly reword 'gain in strength'. Perhaps 'improve' or perhaps 'and Shankly continued to add to his squad, signing wing half Willie...'
• Again, as outstanding as the young players were, an encyclopedia wouldn't describe them as such. We could describe them as 'future England internationals Ian Callaghan...'?
• "drubbing" might be construed as a scare quote and I would suggest we remove and simply add a neutral term like 'defeated'.
• I would paraphrase the sentence "Shankly spoke of "many proud moments" in his career, "but that was the greatest day"" to something along the lines of "In his autobiography, Shankly recounted that among his many achievements, winning the 1965 FA Cup was his greatest day".
• "Liverpool lost 3–0 and went out of the competition 4–3 on aggregate but Shankly maintained that two of Inter's goals were illegal.[106] The Liverpool website goes further than that by saying: "(Liverpool were) only denied at the semi-final stage due to a dishonest referee in Milan".[78] But, according to Kelly, video evidence shows that the two disputed goals were actually legitimate." This section doesn't quite read right. I'd suggest instead: "'The second leg at the San Siro, however, was according to Shankly "a war", which Liverpool lost 3–0 and so were knocked out of the competition 4–3 on aggregate. Eleven years later, Shankly maintained that two of Inter's goals were illegal,[106] and even today the Liverpool website describes the match by saying that "(Liverpool were) only denied at the semi-final stage due to a dishonest referee in Milan".[78] According to Kelly, however, video evidence shows that the two disputed goals were actually legitimate."
• Add the info about the Inter fans going mad to the end of the rewritten paragraph above, then talk about the league performance.
• I would suggest a rewrite of the league performance sentence and remove the quote. There are a lot of quotes at this point and you have to be careful with WP:QUOTEFARM. I'd simply paraphrase, stating that the drop in league position that season has been explained by one source as being resultant from the exertion of the lengthy participation in both the FA Cup and European Cups (or something similar to that).
• Again, to maintain a WP:NPOV, I'd remove "maintained a high standard" and simply lead with "Liverpool regained the first division title in the 1966–7 season and reached..."
• In the sentence " Shankly did not recognise the need for change although he pursued Blackpool teenager Emlyn Hughes as a future prospect and finally signed him for £65,000 in February 1967.", who said that there was a need for change and is that consistent with him then trying to sign a new player?
• Did Shankly describe Ajax as a great team in the making? If so, state this to prevent WP:NPOV (and again, as a football fan I am very much aware that the Ajax team of that era went on to become a wee bit useful!).
• 'Destroying' and 'thrashing' are not encyclopedic and need to be replaced with something less sensationalist.
• "Although Shankly claimed to have been "undeterred" by the Ajax defeat, he acknowledged that "we were examining the team and planning ahead".[110] But, according to Liverpool's own site, "Shankly's mistake now was to let the side rumble on without any major rebuilding for a season or two too long" Again, there are too many quotes here and I would suggest that some paraphrasing to remove the quotes, particularly the last one, which isn't particularly well written and can probably be put in better terms anyway.
• How is a career 'retarded'? Again, a paraphrase might be better here?
• I suggest removing " Otherwise, as the Liverpool site points out, he "let the (same) side rumble on" until..." Having read a little further on, the real breaking point appears to come later.
• "breaking point" isn't especially encyclopedic, so I'd remove this and instead start by stating the date of the 'humiliating' FA Cup loss to Watford; "On X XX 1970, Liverpool played struggling..."
• What is 'the Liverpool History records'? This doesn't appear to be referenced.
• "The Liverpool site summarises the situation by saying: "Shankly's allegiance to his older players harked back to the dying days of his own playing career (when) he believed he had been put on the shelf years too early".[114]" I don't think this adds a lot to this section and suggest removal?
• Suggest changing "to the very experienced Leeds" to " a very experienced Leeds United side."
• Take out "did not have what was needed to win"; the sentence will read better I think as "experience was the key factor and Shankly's young side were beaten 2-1 by league champions Arsenal despite having taken the lead in extra time through a Steve Heighway goal."
• I don't think that "important addition" needs a quote as you pretty much explain yourself straight afterwards.
• "missed out on winning..." rather than "missed winning"?
• Again, remove the "great" before Bobby Moore (and again, I agree entirely that he was, but descriptive, peacock terms are not allowed on wiki).
• "Belated" looks like a WP:PEACOCK term and should be removed I think.
• Replace "stormed into a two goal lead" with Borussia took a two goal lead inside (X) minutes".

Okay, that took me quite a while so I'm going to take a little break and let you have a look at that lot... Meetthefeebles (talk) 21:03, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

An excellent detailed review. I agree with all the points made, plus a couple of additional tweaks of things I've spotted myself, and all the changes are now in the article. I look forward to your review of the later sections. Thanks again. --81.132.89.114 (talk) 12:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Right, lets see if we can't finish this one off...

• The first paragraph of the section 'relationship with fans' consists almost entirely of quotations. I'd leave the first quotation in (though I would take out the part in brackets) and then try to paraphrase the rest.
• The rest of that section is fine, though.
• I don't think the "now is the time" quote really adds much to the article and can be removed, leaving the sentence to state that he could leave in 1974 with no regrets.
• "when he realised Shankly was serious this time, he tried and make him change his mind": suggest replacing the 'and' with 'to'.
• "It may be argued that Liverpool's treatment of Shankly seems shameful on the face of it, but were they not putting the best interests of the club and its new manager first by following the same relentless winning ethic that Shankly himself had instilled?": an encyclopedia should not be asking questions, so this will need a rewrite. Suggest something like "Whilst the treatment of Shankly might have seemed disrespectful, it was merely a continuation of the ruthless winning ethic that he had himself installed within the club."
• We can describe Matt Busby as legendary, even though he is!
• Change "unlocked" to simply 'opened.
• Take 'but is essentially' out before the 'life or death' quotation.
• The next sentence doesn't read quite right. Suggest "Kelly points out that, although it was said half jokingly, so far as Shankly was concerned there was a degree of truth to what was said. Shankly had fully realised..."
• Take out the socialism quote: you have effectively paraphrased this just fine before you cite the verbatim quote. You don;t need both and the article is already laden with quotes.

Okay, I think that's everything. Overall there are still probably a few too many quotes but I'll give the article another once over once these last issues are addressed. Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks once again for the review. I think I've addressed all the points you've raised but I'm conscious of your view that the article has too many quotes. Can I ask you to read through it again, now that all the amendments are in place, to check for any typos and also to call out any other quotes which don't add value. I think the reason for so many quotes is because of the autobiography being used as one of the three main sources. On balance, I think now that autobiographies should perhaps be used only a supporting source. Anyway, I look forward to your further advices. --81.132.89.114 (talk) 19:38, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

A comprehensive, well-referenced, well-illustrated article.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

I've assessed this article against the requirements of WP:WIAGA and, in the light of improvements carried out, I'm awarding GA-status. Congratulations!

Whilst I think the article is deserving of GA, I do think there is a way to go if this one is eventually to end up at WP:FAC. There is an awful lot of quoting going one which isn't really necessary. Have a look at the first paragraph of the early life section where I have removed most of the superfluous quotes and paraphrased instead for an example of what needs to be done. See WP:QUOTEFARM for guidance on this. Once the quotes have been stripped out I would suggest the next logical step is WP:PR, where another editor can give more detailed assistance on making the article better. A full consideration of prose might also be helpful, and you could consider asking the fine men and women of WP:GOCE to take a look at the article?

Good luck with further improving what is an important football article. Meetthefeebles (talk) 10:44, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Tone

the tone of this section is not neutral. 216.221.68.144 (talk) 15:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

NPOV dispute: "Retirement from Liverpool"

I'm a fan of the club myself, but this is vulgar and will not do:

"It should be remembered that Shankly was 'an overpowering figure' who would certainly have used a position on the board to be a 'back-seat driver' and the board were well aware that Matt Busby's time as a Manchester United director was disastrous, the team just having been relegated. Whilst Liverpool's treatment of Shankly may have seemed disrespectful, they were acting in the best interests of the club and its new manager by pursuing the same relentless winning ethic that Shankly himself had instilled. In any event, their perceived ruthlessness was vindicated by the unprecedented haul of League Championship titles and European Cups won by Paisley and Joe Fagan."

I need hardly explain why. Crusoe (talk) 21:01, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

You do. As per WP:VERIFY the statement is referenced to a book on Shankly. The fact *you* don't like it, has nothing to do with the content of the section. I have removed the tag as as violation of WP:IDL. Sadly you don;t seem to know the history of the club too well. Shankly retired and Liverpool moved on. He might not have liked it - just like you - but that is what published authors of works on Shankly have concluded. And those statements are verifiable in this article.5.81.0.169 (talk) 17:42, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

1974 Charity Shield

An editor recently removed the 1974 Charity Shield from the list of trophies won as Bob Paisley was the manager for this match. According to [1] it was Shankly who lead the team out that day. Is the 1974 Charity Shield attributed to Shankly, Paisley or both? Chrisuae (talk) 07:11, 29 August 2015 (UTC) Chrisuae

"Leading out" the team before the game is a symbolic thing. Usually the team manager would lead the team out, but sometimes they honour someone else connected with the club. Therefore it doesn't necessarily indicate who actually managed/coached the team during the game. I would have thought that Paisley would have done that in this case. You would need a source that said that Shankly coached/managed the team during the game to say that it was "his" honour, rather than Paisley's. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 07:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

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Preston North End

The following use of his biography seems rather odd "In his autobiography, Shankly wrote that Preston had more than held their own in the 1934–35 season and the club was not relegated again until the end of the 1948–49 season in which he left them." While biographies are sources of a kind it's not like we don't have official records from this era. imo it would be better to just say Preston finished the next 3 years mid-table then link to a page on football history of Preston. Firestar47 (talk) 09:51, 30 January 2024 (UTC)