Talk:Black Ruthenia

Old talk

ЧЕРНАЯ РУСЬ, название,не упоминаемое ни одним дошедшим до нас источником,принято относить в XIII-XIV вв. к области, лежавшей в бассейне верхнего течения Немана с городами Городно (Гродно), Новгородком, Слонимом, Волковыйском, Несвижем, Турийском (Турец), Здитовом. До XIII в. Черная Русь, возможно, входила в состав Полоцкого княжества. В 1240-х так называемая "Черная Русь" по Ипатьевской летописи Литва,являлась вотчиной князя Миндовга,известного так же под именем "Изяслав Новогрудский" со столицей в Новогрудке,который по летописи назван "королевским Новогрудком". В 1250-х,как сообщает летопись она была завоёвана Даниилом Галицким-"Захватил всю землю Литовскую и Нальшанскую-Гродно,Волковыск,Слоним-всю вотчину земли их,и пришёл Миндовг просить мира "отдавшему Черную Русь своему сыну Роману Данииловичу, за которым она оставалась в течение нескольких лет. Затем Черную Русь вновь оккупировал Миндовг. После его смерти (в 1263) временно находилась в составе Галицко-Волынского княжества. В XIV в. Черная Русь составляла основное ядро Великого княжества Литовского —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mikkalai (talk • contribs) 11:08, 15 December 2004.

What's the purpose to put a text in another language than English on this page ?? Moreover, there seem to be a problem with the external link (I just suppressed it): it refers to a suppressed wikipedia page over 'Black Ruthenian language', a language whose existence is contested, see: Talk:Black_Ruthenian_language. Same problem with the French article fr:Tchèrnorusse (discussion: fr:Discuter:Tchèrnorusse --Pylambert 11:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

For reference. Experts on the topic must know slavic languages. mikka (t) 18:50, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

This is an interesting point. This being an open project to which anyone can contribute, and this being the English Wikipedia and there being non-English Wikiepdiae, I wonder if things shouldn't be in English and available to all? There is after all no qualification bar to editing here. I wonder if leaving the Cyrillic and providing the English translation might be a good thing to do? -Splash 23:05, 15 August 2005 (UTC

Where did you see me forbidding your editing an article? In wikipedia one may edit articles in math and rocket science while not being a rocket scientist. But this does not mean that you are free to delete texts you don't understand. About providing English translation: that was the whole point. It was left here in hope that someone with good command of both Ru and En will incorporate the info into the article. mikka (t) 00:08, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I see, I understand now. You could ask over at WP:PNT or similar where they'll be sure to help out. I didn't see you forbidding anyone from editing an article, but I thought your comment about experts sounded somewhat "if you're not an expert you don't need to have that translated". That wasn't what you meant, so I understand entirely. -Splash 00:28, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Removal from talk pages is violation of rules. mikka (t) 21:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks worth translating properly. It comes verbatim from the well-sourced [1] Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Russian Civilisation at the Russian Sky website, which is no problem as the front page says "Все материалы сервера могут использоваться и распространяться без каких-либо ограничений" - "All materials on the server can be used and be extended without any limitations". Tearlach 13:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've had a stab at tidying the Babelfish output:

BLACK RUSSIA was the name applied in the 13th-14th centuries to a region in the basin of the upper flow of the Neman River, with the cities Hrodna, Navahradak, Slonim, Volkovysk, Nesvizh, Turaw and Zditov. In the 13th century Black Russia probably became part of the Polatsk principality. c. Around 1240 Black Russia was taken by the Lithuanian prince Mindaugas. Around 1250 it was recaptured by Danylo of Halych, who returned Black Russia to his son Roman Danylovich, with whom it remained for several years. Then Black Russia was again occupied by Mindaugas. After his death in 1263 it temporarily became part of the Galicia-Volhynia principality. In the XIV century, Black Russia together with Lithuania composed the basic nucleus of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

Does this make sense? There's some confirmation of the chronology here. Tearlach 04:00, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Factual accuracy tag

Does the article need a "factual accuracy disputed" tag any more? I can't see any current dispute. Tearlach 11:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC) I will mark this article as Original research. I don't understand from where are taken "Flag" and "Coat of arms" of Black Ruthenia? As Black Ruthenia was named not only Neman region. Before writing about coloured Ruthenians I'd recomend some more serious literature, like this one (in Russian) [[2]]--82.135.217.87 (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

List of rulers

This was removed from the main article in case someone will find it useful:

Rulers

-1084 part of The Principality of Włodzimierz Wołyński

Capital: HORODNA

Rurik-Horodeński

• 1084-1090s Wsiewołod I Igorevicz (d. aft. 1092)
• 1090s-1113 Mstisław I Wsiewołodowicz
• 1113-1142 Wsiewołod Dawydowicz (d. February 1, 1142; m. 1116 Agafia Kijówska)
• 1142-1159 Boris Wsiewołodowicz (ca 1117 - ca 1169)
• 1159-1169 Wolodar Hlebowicz (in Minsk 1151-1158, 1165-1167; m. btw. 1136-1139 Ryksa Śląska {d. after December 25, 1155})
• 1169-1172 Hleb Wsiewołodowicz
• 1172-1175 Mstisław II Wsiewołodowicz

Capital: NOWOHORODOK

Gediminids

• 1175-1183 Erdywił

Capital: HORODNA

Rurik-Witebski

• 1183-1185 Iziasław Wasilkowicz
• 1185 Wsiewołod II Glebowicz (d. 13th century; also in Zasławje and Strejew)

Capital: NOWOHORODOK

• 1185-before 1192 Wasilko Wolodarowicz?

Gediminids

• after 1185–1192 Mingayl
• 1192–before 1219 Skirmunt
• after 1192-before 1219 Troniata

Capital: HORODNA

Rurik-Witebski

• after 1192-1219 Wasilko Briaczesławicz (also in Witebsk; m. NN, dau. of Rostisław Mstisławicz of Smoleńsk)

Capital: NOWOHORODOK

• 1219-1239 Iziasław Briaczesławicz (d. 1264; also in Witebsk)

Rurik-Mindaugas

• 1239-1254 Vaišvilkas (in The Lithuania 1264-1267)
• 1254-1258 Roman Daniłowicz (d. after 1258)
• 1258-1264 Vaišvilkas (d. 1267)

1264-before 1300 part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Gediminids

• before 1300-before 1341 Narymont
• ?-1341 Narymunt
• 1341-1347 Koriat
• 1347-before 1381 Woidete (d. after 1362)
• after 1347-1381 Butaw (d. after 1381)

1381-1384 part of The Grand Duchy of Lithuania

• 1384-1386 Jurij Czornaruski
• 1386-1390 Towtiwil
• 1390-1440 Zygmunt Kiejstutowicz (in Lithuania 1432-1440)
• 1440-1441 Michał Bolesław Zygmuntowicz (d. 1451)

1441- part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Renata 04:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

why is the flag for Black Ruthenia the flag of Wurttemburg which existed centuries later? The file is exactly the same one. Rcduggan 23:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Lida

Lida was never part of Black Ruthenia. The castle was built on border land of Lithuania Propria. --Žemėpatis (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2013 (UTC)