Talk:Blackbeard/Archive 1

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Early text

I just saw on The Daily Show that they just now found Blackbeard's ship. Hoax? They do do fake news but they don't usually completely make these things up. Anyway, I can't find anything on the net yet. I'll check back in a few days. Jkeiser 06:27, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• name of La Concorde - http://www.oceansonline.com/blackbeard.htm --Air 10:42, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The big chunk of text added by Pwqn reads as though it was written 150 years ago. I presume it was lifted wholesale from another, older, source. It doesn't read very well for an encyclopedia. Anyone else have any thoughts? Arthur Holland 5 Jan 2005

• I don't know what you're talking about: in recounting my weekend's recreations, I routinely speak of such matters as throwing upon my antagonists a number of hand-grenadoes of my own composition. (Seriously, yeah . . . I don't have what it takes to turn that chunk of text into something more presentable, but it needs to happen. It's an entertaining but probably sensationalized account, and it doesn't really flow with what's before it contentwise as well as writingwise--why was Blackbeard using that sloop instead of the frigate Concorde, for example?) Iralith 19:23, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fix for archaic language

I've rewritten the last portion of this article - if the more modern phrasing/vocabulary doesn't capture all the information in the original feel free to edit/add on what's missing...

Untitled

I've made some edits to reflect how much of this article is poorly sourced (more needs to be done, especially with the death section). Folks, contemporary colorful news and literary accounts are not sourcing. Not from that time period. All that historians have been able to conclude about Blackbeard was that he was really good at using PR to intimidate you. They actually haven't been able to document him actually killing anyone.

Small Edit

Blackbeard appears in the popular japanese manga and anime, One Piece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.168.131.27 (talk) 19:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Massive edit

Okay, so some yardape replaced the article with a single one-liner. Reverted it back Almighty Tallest

Buried treasure

This article on Blackbeard states that he buried his treasue along banks of rivers, but the article on "buried treasure" states that William Kidd was the only pirate known to have buried his treasure. So maybe stories of blackbeard's buried treasure were just that - stories.

Kiera Nightly?

the caption under the picture of Blackbeard...no doubt this is a ruse?

Mention has been made of an ancestral connection between Nightly and Teach. Can anyone verify?

Blackbeard's Flagship

Blackbeard's Flagship (Archaeological Institute of America) Adraeus 00:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

other beards

Blackbeard have also appeared in fiction in the cartoons Xiaolin Showdown and Duck Dodgers.

Paul Burchill

It says here that this man is his descendant, yet the page on that person mentions nothing about it. Especially since the guy is a professional wrestler who used the pirate theme, isn't it likely that it's utter BS? 65.35.93.97 08:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I've run across a number of websites where people claim to be descended from Blackbeard. A couple had links to genealogy sites or family trees (so it said) but when you click the link it goes nowhere....Personally , I think anyone making that claim will be hard pressed to come up with anything convincing.... Engr105th 23:30, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

disambiguation

It just needs to be made. Blackbeard (Marshall D. Teach)

Song about blackbeard/edward Teach

There is a song about Blackbeard called "The Gruesome Death of Edward Teach" by the band Scissorfight It is really good

Seconded on the Scissorfight song. It's from their album "New Hampshire" McFlynnTHM 14:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

References?

Some of this article, especially the portion just prior to Blackbeard's death, with respect to things he said, etc., sounds like hearsay. Are there any references? --XSG 15:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

What is this article? Its not funny, its stupid. I mean, "ARRGGGGGGG, I EAT YOUR SOULS!!!!!"

I hate people that do this on Wikipedia, because some of us work so hard to make articles then some random loser posts things like this. How about someone makes it so only people with accounts can edit?

When you say "some of us", are you referring to the folks who don't bother to sign their comments with ~~~~? —XSG 19:44, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Polite and understated man, wasn't he?

"Damn ye, ye yellow ___ ___ ___! I'm a better man than all ye milksops put together"

Funny, I didn't realize it was Wiki policy to censor articles down to a PG rating. I've Googled for the original quote and found nothing but this article, so I'd advise that someone more knowledgable than I either fill in the alleged quote, or snip it out altogether. Honestly, though! 82.166.53.176 18:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

its "sapsuckers" Streona (talk) 00:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Removal of link to outfit called Blackbeard's Cruises

Somebody named "BalthCat" (for whom I can't find contact information) deleted my link to an outside scuba diving outfit called Blackbeard's Cruises, then reported the erasure of my comments as "spam deletion."

Honestly, I have no idea why this is considered a big deal. There factually is a cruise company by this name. Are we all to pretend there is no such thing as the free market? I suppose I could write a separate article on the cruise company, but seems like that might be deleted too.

For the record, I am not affiliated with said company, but have greatly enjoyed my time patronizing it. Don't understand why I'm not allowed to report it's a popular option for scuba divers.

Responded on talk. - BalthCat 03:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Blackbeard's Ghost

I am reverting out this section because it is both unsourced and legendary. Legends about historical figures need context and reliable research. I reproduce the section here to see if anyone can provide sources and proper exposition. Robert A.West (Talk) 19:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The ghost is said to walk the shores of the Outer Banks looking for his head. Often there are sitings of the headless pirate walking up and down the coast. Sometimes he is carrying a lanturn, so any siting of a strange light on the Outer Banks is referred to as Teach's light. Some witnesses who have seen the ghost say that they hear the sound of heavy boots walking across the beach, and every once and a while someone says that they heard a voice on the beach ask the question, "Where is my head?" Also, the ghost is said to swim in Ocracoke Inlet searching for his head. According to legend, the ghost of Blackbeard does not wish to see his partner the Devil, without his head on his shoulders. People say that Blackbeard is afraid that the Devil won't recognize him without it. As for where his head really is, when Maynard returned to Virginia, Blackbeard's head was set on a pole for many years. This was the practice of the day, because it was used to warn pirates of what was going to happen if they were caught. The head was then taken down from the pole. The skull was hollowed out and then covered in silver by a local silversmith. It was said to have been used as a punchbowl or cup. Then there was a message written into the silver across the forhead of the skull in Latin. The skull has been lost over the years. Several silver covered skulls have been found, but none of them can be proven to be Blackbeard's. To this day, the skull is still lost.

I believe this ghost story appears in Robert E. Lee's Blackbeard: A Reappraisal of His Life and Times. I don't have the book at hand, though. Anyone who does can put it back in.Pirate Dan 18:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

The "Swimming Body"

There are varying accounts of what happened to Blackbeard's body after he was decapitated (that it "swam" or "floated" around the ship a number of times - two, three, seven, etc.). As this is purely legend, rather unlikely, and a solid source is doubtful, I removed it. Any thoughts on the matter? Arx Fortis 02:48, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with reporting, myths and legends, provided that they are attested by reliable sources as legends and reported as such. Now, is this story a real, circulating legend, or a tongue-in-cheek tall tale? Absent sources, we can't tell which one. Robert A.West (Talk) 03:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It was referenced in the A&E biopic Blackbeard's Reign of Terror. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 03:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The point here is that even the legends don't mesh. In the past week the History Channel contradicted itself with one show's "expert" saying it floated around twice; another show's expert said it swam around three times. I found a 3rd reference that states it was seven times. The story is not even consistent enough to form a definitive "legend." If someone wants to add it back, that's fine, but it should include the fact that there are varying versions, none of which are corroborated by any of the accounts of the people who where there (including Robert Maynard). Arx Fortis 04:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

A&E has a reputation for spicing bios up a little bit, and most of them are not available on DVD, which makes verification chancey in any case. It's a cute point, though, so I would not oppose a properly referenced version. Robert A.West (Talk) 04:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it is worth putting back in with an addition that points out sources vary. We aren't likely to get contemporary written references for this.Yomangani 09:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I just reverted yet another of the swimming body claims that says "his head was screaming and cursing" while the body swam around the ship. This "legend" just varies too widely to be included in the article. There are no credible sources for this....and the different versions don't even agree with each other. I say we leave it out. Thoughts? Arx Fortis 22:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Claim that the sources Vary about what happened. the myth is one of the biggest known stories about Blackbeard and that story is better known to many more than Maynard. keep the myth, and say that some stories tell about how the head screamed. every book on pirates with more than three pages on blackbeard (that i've seen anyway) has this myth.

Technobabble1 (you didn't sign your post), while repeating a rumor, legend, etc. over and over again does not in and of itself make it truth, if you want to enter this information into the article, that's fine. However, cite your source (see WP:CITE). That will serve to disuade confusion over the widely varying accounts and will make it less likely it would be removed. Arx Fortis 23:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm grateful for your acceptance. however my problem with your conditions is this I learned this legend around a campfire in cub-scouts i have forgotten the name of said storyteller who informed me of the legend. --Technobabble1 23:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

...and that's how legends come to vary from telling to telling. In your previous post you state "every book on pirates with more than three pages on blackbeard (that i've seen anyway) has this myth."....find one of those books and cite it. Arx Fortis 03:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah i forgot that, i forget what i say or write far too often. my mistake. --Technobabble1 16:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

His wives

"Blackbeard had over a dozen wives, most of which were common-law marriages." - Is this a documented fact, or is it part of the mythology surrounding Blackbeard? --Grumpy444grumpy 06:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The answer is probably yes. It is well known that Blackbeard would go into town, get drunk, and find a woman. He would usually marry her in a day, then get up and leave the day after that. With Blackbeard's last wife, he married her and moved in with her house in Bath NC. He stayed there a few weeks but then he returned to piracy. There is another story that after getting married to one of his wifes, Blackbeard would take them to his ship and kill them, but that's probably not true. He would just leave them where he found them. At most it is said that Blackbeard had 14 wives My source for this was "Blackbeard The Pirate." by Robert E. Lee. Bcody 13:32, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The story originates with Johnson's General History of the Pirates, which states: "he marry'd a young Creature of about sixteen Years of Age . . . and this, I have been informed, made Teach's fourteenth Wife. . . . [A]t a Plantation, where his Wife lived, with whom after he had lain all Night, it was his custom to invite five or six of his brutal Companions to come ashore, and he would force her to prostitute her self to them all, one after another, before his Face." No support for the idea that he murdered his wives, but pretty gruesome all the same.

Pirate Dan 22:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

His Birth

I have found no evidence that Blackbeard was born in 1680. Last I checked the year of his birth and place of his birth was unkown. The article also says that he was BELIEVED to have been born in 1680, and since that's not actual fact it should be changed to 16??. I would like to see some proove that he was born in 1680, if there is none then I think the date of his birth should be changed to 16??. Bcody 13:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur. It should be changed back. Arx Fortis 23:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Here's a secondary source confirming his d.o.b.: Blackbeard: The Real Pirate of the Caribbean (doesn't anyone ever check the reference heading?) ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 09:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

About that secondary source: “Little is known for certain about Blackbeard's early life, but it is believed he was born around 1680”. (From Blackbeard: The Real Pirate of the Caribbean by Dan Perry, 1st line of Chapter 1: The Origins Of A Legend ) How is that a confirmed date (which at time of writing this is set at 23rd Nov 1675)? RadoxTheGreen 19:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

16?? works far as I'm concerned....But I want to engage in a little (very loose) speculation: He is believed to have served with a Privateer during "The War of Spanish Succession". This war occurred from 1701 to 1714. So his earliest possible participation in that war would be 1701. Assuming he's *about* age 20 when he goes off on the privateer adventure, and assuming he joined up early in the war, it puts him at *about* 1680 for his birth year...Now, thats very loose of course. But as additional argument, to captain a pirate ship I'd vote for him to be in his 30's versus, let's say, age 21. And I'd say he had to have at least several years at sea - at least some experience. But, conversely, a 65 yr old pirate (or seaman for that matter!) is probably unlikely - it was a brutal age to live in.

So we have a man with enough experience to lead a crew by 1716-1717, who was of fighting age from 1701 to 1714 (yeah, I know "fighting age" is loose too) and who couldn't have been too old (whatever that would be back then, taking in consideration the rough life) - and you get a 30-something guy. So maybe 1680 isn't far off at all....Heck, we don't even know his name, lol!....Engr105th 19:11, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Place of birth doesn't remain consistent in article have found no links that he was born in New York or Denmark - Old Nol 19:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Confusing entry - evidence or fiction?

I've moved this entry here because I'm not sure what exactly the intent of it is, in order to fix it.

* in Chapter 3, Captain Teach, Alias Blackbeard from A General Historie of the most Notorious Pirates 1726 Captain Charles Johnson ( possibly Attributed to Defoe) a Facsimilie Edition, PIRATES printed 2000, Creation books ISBN 1-871592-36-4 this book relates the lives of many 17th and 18th century Privateers as written by a contemporary 3rd party witness. Considered by some to be the best early source of pirate stories and myths.

Is it supposed to be in the fictional references section, or should it (as "Historie" might imply) be a real reference? - BalthCat 22:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, a lot of the historical "evidence" about Edward Teach derives from this book and found its way into history. Defoe (or Johnson) is accused of having evidence and fiction weaved together in a way that makes it almost impossible to figure out what has really happened. --Ginness (talk) 00:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Heh, from my reading this seems to be a problem with pretty much every pirate. The earlier ones in the General History are more fact than fiction though - I believe. Although Johnson basically seems to have decided to write what are essentially some cool stories regarding some pirates (Mission). shas^Yarr!/_T|C 02:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Blackbeard's flag not his flag?

From User:Jestapher 19:24, 30 October 2006:

The most recent change to this entry claims that Blackbeard's flag is erroneously attributed to Blackbeard. The text:

Blackbeard's flag, showing a skeleton, probably a similar figure to the devil, holding an hourglass and threatening a bleeding heart with a spear.

Was replaced by:

A flag often erroneously attributed to Blackbeard.

This change was made by User:MosheA with a comment linking to [1].

On that page it states:

Blackbeard is known to have flown the "deaths head"; Johnson's History of the Pirates shows his ship flying the skull and crossbones only. All other flags attributed to Blackbeard are fictional.

I did a small amount of Googling and couldn't come up with anything to substantiate that sentence. Most of the world seems to believe that this is indeed Blackbeard's flag. It would be nice to substantiate this change more, revert it, or to not present this claim as truth.

This opens up a can of worms. You're right that most of the world does believe that that is Blackbeard's flag, but an increasing number of experts now doubt it. The contemporary sources do not ascribe any flag like that to Blackbeard (although Johnson's General History describes a very similar flag to Francis Spriggs). The tons of secondary sources that attribute that flag to Blackbeard apparently are relying on an undated manuscript in Britain's National Maritime Museum, donated in the 1930s by Philip Gosse. Since the provenance of the manuscript before the 1930s is completely unknown, a lot of historians now reject it. But popular literature and the Internet haven't kept up with the latest research. Pirate Dan 18:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

From User:70.165.30.175 22:31, 28 June 2007:

Ed Foxe's website [2] clearly disputes many of the myths associated with pirate flags. Regarding Blackbeard's flag, he writes:

Period of operation: September 1717-November 1718.

Source: Flag 1: 1 is the flag usually depicted as Blackbeard's, but there is no period source to support this and the horns on the skeleton render it stylistically unlikely.

Flag 2: Blackbeard's flag is described in at least one Colonial Office document as a "Death's Head".

Flag 3: In an engraving of 1734 Blackbeard is depicted standing in front of a ship flying flag 3 [Skull with crossed bones] from the bowsprit.

Flag 4: This pennant is shown flying from the main mast of Blackbeard's ship in the same engraving as 3.

This is good information, however I wouldn't say it "clearly" disputes. None of the statements there are referenced. Not suggesting it's wrong, it would just seem best to find more sources. The current text about Blackbeard's flag says it "is often attributed" to him, which solves the original issue brought up by this discussion. It would be interesting to learn more about his flag than just that though. User:Jestapher 21 Jul 2007

Someone has put in a lot of erronous info in this article.

Some idiot has put in a number of "jokes" in this article. Adding long jonh silver, calling 911 and a few words about him taking you hostage if you read the article. Not that cool for something that's on the main page. Blackbeard

AND the main page also has a photo of JFK with next to it some text about Blackbeard so it looks like Blackbeard had his photo taken and looked like JFK and didn't have a beard.

Location of Queen Anne's Revenge disputed?

The introduction says that the Queen Anne's Revenge is "believed by some" to have run aground in Beaufort Inlet.

I realize there is some controversy about whether the wreck that's being excavated in Beaufort Inlet is really the Queen Anne's Revenge. But I never heard anyone dispute that Blackbeard did indeed run the ship aground there. Certainly his crewmen rescued by Stede Bonnet testified that Blackbeard ran the ship aground at Topsail Inlet, and every source I've ever seen says Topsail Inlet and Beaufort Inlet are the same. And Johnson's General History of the Pirates certainly bears the story out.

Why the ambivalent "believed by some" statement? Pirate Dan 18:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

dont use this sight. its terriable

scotland?

Recent edit says there is some belief that Blackbeard was born in Scotland. Any support for this? Is such belief supported enough to warrant inclusion in this article? Pirate Dan 21:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I've been searching some Blackbeard sites, and I can't find any real "evidence" for an origin from Scotland. Then again, theres nothing that favors he's from England either - maybe other than the proportion of sailors from the two places circa 1700. These pirate articles are all 90% speculative ! Engr105th 02:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

highlander removed

Um, I took out the reference to Connor MacLeod having wounded Blackbeard during his last fight, as that is dumb. (for lack of a more vernacular statement) RumRunner 09:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Image error

I'd do it myself if I knew how, but the caption of the second image of Blackbeard, from Pirates of the Carribean, neither names the specific movie nor capitalizes the series name.Alternator 03:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm seeking clarification from the photographer that took the picture. I assume it is from one of the Disney theme parks, not from the movies. I'll change it when the photographer replies. --Dan East 10:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The photographer said the photo had nothing to do with Pirates of the Caribbean, and he has corrected the caption, --Dan East 10:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The picture at the bottom

It's not James Purefoy. Oh no no no.81.86.76.6 20:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I've changed it; thanks for the pointer. Pirate Dan 19:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Was this when he was a zombie pirate? Yarrrr!

Yarrr ye scurvy landlubbers, yon article say:

Teach began as a pirate under Benjamin Hornigold. In 1718, Hornigold retired, taking advantage of an amnesty offered to former privateers by the British government. Teach then took command of his own ship.

During the next two years, Teach cultivated a reputation for cruelty, repeatedly preying on coastal settlements of the West Indies and the Atlantic coast of North America.

If Blackbeard died in 1718, was it his zombie that spent "the next two years" piratin' around the West Indies?

Arrrrr! 220.253.86.126 00:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Right you are. I'm pretty sure that part was originally intended to refer to Blackbeard's service under Hornigold, and I've changed it to reflect that. Pirate Dan 19:15, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

While we're at it, I thought I'd mention that matches hadn't been invented yet in Blackbeards time. So he probably wasn't using them in his beard. Hemp would probably set his hair on fire so I doubt he was using that either. It's a nice myth though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.21.138.210 (talk) 02:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Matches had long ago been invented, both quick match and slow match. Slow match is what Blackbeard used. Safety matches weren't invented yet, but the article never claimed he used safety matches. Pirate Dan 03:29, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I think more description is needed re: the "lit matches" part. What does it mean that he kept hemp and lit matches in his beard? How did he manage to weave burning matches into his beard without setting the beard on fire, and/or snuffing out the matches? How long did these matches last to allow one to light them, weave it into your beard, and then go into battle? 207.161.180.52 (talk) 00:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

What weasel words?

This article's been tagged since forever with the "Weasel Words" logo, but I've yet to see anyone clearly identifying what the weasel words are. What needs changed? When can we take this tag down? Pirate Dan 19:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Blockade of Charleston

I haven't read up on this since before the Internet was invented, but I think that Blackbeard held several coastal cities to ransom, usually for all the money he thought he could get. From the fact that he demanded medicine from Charleston, historians have inferred that a disease was loose among the pirates. Novelist Don Tracy in Carolina Corsair argues that Blackbeard was himself sick. I'd like to find out about the other cities. J S Ayer (talk) 04:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

He probably did want medicine, but it has also been suggested that his demand for opiods may have been for recreational drug use. Streona (talk) 00:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Historical Evidence - native speaker wanted

Hello there! I have added the paragraph about "Historical evidence". But as English is not my native language - in fact, I have learned it in school - I am not quite sure, whether the language is correct. May anybody run it through and correct it, if necessary? Thank you ---Ginness (talk) 12:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you; you did well; I have polished it a bit. J S Ayer (talk) 23:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

Information on Early Pirating Life

It has come to my attention that Blackbeard's early pirating life with Captain Hornigold is mentioned in Hornigold's and Stede's articles but not on his own article. I have started this myself with a few sites I found in my search during a project. Please continue this if you can... Much appreciated! --Hougmaku 04:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Also I would like if Blackbeard's actual career of piracy was posted and not just a single blockade and his death. Again, much appreciated! --Hougmaku 04:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hougmaku (talk • contribs)

It has also come to my attention that the Adventure was grounded trying to 'save' the QAR which was ground by Blackbeard's own actions... Please fix this! --Hougmaku 04:39, 1 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hougmaku (talk • contribs)

Early Life paragraph

Under his Early Life, it says "Little is known about Blackbeard's early life."....This ought to be changed to "Nothing is known..." about his early life. Face it, we don't know a thing about this character! Engr105th (talk) 06:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

they said blackbeard was the first to discover a mermaid. she ended up giving him a wish and he wish to be the most fear pirate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.157.24 (talk) 01:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Protection

So many people keep giving name checks to their friends and similar infantile vandalism that it may be time to protect this site against update Streona (talk) 12:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Name?

I ,216.164.33.60 (talk), just found a source (the magazine Dig july/august Pirates edition) that says " Blackbeard, whose real name was probably Edward Thatch,..." Is it a typo or what. 216.164.33.60 (talk) 16:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Death?

If Blackbeard "apparently retired" according to the first part of that section, why does it go on to say that Maynard "found the pirates..." etc. And if he was retired, why was he still on a boat, commanding people? TheHYPO (talk) 20:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

That needs clarification. Blackbeard took a pardon, set himself up as a sort of mafia don in NC (buying off the governor), and got the authorities in neighboring VA angry enough that they lanuched what was technically an illegal invasion of NC to hunt him down. Vincent pearse (talk) 12:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

His Crew

Is it really supposed to say, "Thirteen crackers and six Negroes"? or is the "crackers" part vandalism? 97.95.61.208 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC).

That'd be vandalism, though funny. Vincent pearse (talk) 20:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Defoe Or Not Defoe?

Having turned the note on The Hystorie... from "falsely attributed to Daniel Defoe" into "sometimes atrributed" , I want to note, that the subject is not cleared. There are still some very good arguments for Daniel Defoes authorship, and some very good against it. The given source is very likely a good one to read, but not really a reliable source. I think, "sometimes attributed" shows enough doubt in a not settled discussion. --Ginness (talk) 23:55, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The given source is exceedingly reliable, and the endnotes therein lead to scholarly articles (not available online) that put the Defoe theory to rest. Vincent pearse (talk) 13:10, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Move?

Maybe this page should be moved to Edward Teach. That is his name.--Jastcaan (talk) 16:11, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

See WP:COMMONNAME. This is one of the clearest examples of the policy. --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 23:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean yes or no?--92.238.45.211 (talk) 14:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

If nobody votes by 13:00 British Time 11 JAnuary 2010 I will take it as a yes & move it.--Jastcaan (talk) 10:35, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Read the policy that RegentsPark linked. "Common usage in reliable sources is preferred to technically correct but rarer forms"' "Blackbeard" is by far the most common usage. It specifically says not to be pedantic about naming articles. APL (talk) 19:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I meant that as a no. Blackbeard is how he is known and, per WP:COMMONNAME, that's where the article should be. --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 19:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I accept your decision--Jastcaan (talk) 15:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC) However I did read the policy & withdrew the proposal, but APL decided to put the withdrawn proposal back & make a comment anyway. In addition this had been up for 2 months & I know people had been on here but ignored it so thats why I set the time limit. I had accepted it should be Blackbeard & showed it but you kept on with this anyway.Just in case no offence intended.--Jastcaan (talk) 10:57, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of Queen Anne's Revenge

The meaning of the name "Queen Anne's Revenge" is admittedly obscure, but I think it would be highly misleading to say outright that it was from sympathy for the Stuart claim to the British throne. Anne was no more the legitimate Stuart heir than George I was; the Stuarts' partisans had generally supported not Anne, but James II's son James Francis Edward Stuart, called James III by his supporters and "the Old Pretender" by his opponents, in whose name the Earl of Mar revolted in 1715. Anne herself, a devout Protestant, had agreed to the Act of Settlement that directed the crown to George if she died childless.

It is still possible that Blackbeard had Jacobite sympathies (and very likely that his confederate Stede Bonnet did), but rather more likely that he was just opportunistically trying to cloak his piracy in a thin disguise of royalism, to help him recruit naive sailors and possibly help angle for a pardon if George I didn't last long. At any rate, the article shouldn't leave readers with the misleading impression that "supporter of Queen Anne" = "supporter of the Stuarts." Pirate Dan (talk) 15:11, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Great Mongeham Church - Lt. Robert Maynard's Final Resting Place

Just been walking through my village churchyard and saw a plaque of the tower of the church relating to Lt. Robert Maynard, so starting to investigate further and found this...

http://www.kentchurches.info/church.asp?p=Great+Mongeham —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ourwalks (talk • contribs) 13:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Expansion

I hope nobody minds. I plan to expand this article in a similar vein to Dick Turpin, or Mary Toft. There's enough booty written about Teach to easily make an FA from this. If anyone has other source material, please do feel free to contribute. Parrot of Doom 13:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I will begin working on some additional material. Thanks. Prenigmamann (talk) 01:06, 27 March 2010 (UTC)Prenigmamann

Placed here until I figure out what to do with it:

"Contemporary newspaper reports held Teach responsible for some notable instances of cruelty. One story claimed he shot his first mate: "if he didn’t shoot one or two crewmen now and then, they'd forget who he was." Another reported that while drunk, Teach said to his crew "let us make a hell of our own, and try how long we can bear it", and filled several pots with brimstone. Once the contents were on fire, all except Teach scrambled out for fresh air. The pirate then emerged, and said "damn ye, ye yellow-bellied sapsuckers! I'm a better man than all ye milksops put together!"<ref>{{Harvnb|Pendered|1975|p=n/a}}</ref>"

Hornigold

The claim that Hornigold's reluctance to attack ships carrying a British flag resulted in a mutiny seems dubious - I can find no mention of it elsewhere. I'm going to remove it for now, unless I find corroborating sources. Parrot of Doom 13:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Pirate Dan (talk) 16:13, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Lee (2002) p91 says that Vane refused to attack a French man-of-war, and that Rackham branded him a coward. The crew put the matter to a vote and Vane was kicked out. I think that that's where this has come from. Parrot of Doom 20:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Update, I've reinserted this claim as Konstam describes what may have happened in detail. Parrot of Doom 23:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Loss of the Queen Anne's Revenge - remove reference to Lee?

I added Ignatius Pell's testimony saying that Blackbeard ran the Queen Anne's Revenge aground purposely. I think this makes the "surmise" of Robert Lee superfluous, as the primary source is far more important. Shall we remove it?

Furthermore, Lee is not a very reliable source; see the claim that I removed, apparently based on his work, that Bonnet went to St. Thomas and recovered his crew there, which is just absurd. It's been a while since I read Lee, but I believe I also recall him saying that Charleston had no artillery when Blackbeard blockaded it, when in fact the city had been defended by the Half Moon Battery since 1701. Pirate Dan (talk) 16:12, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The trouble is with such old sources is that they're usually fine for direct quotations, but they're not otherwise considered reliable sources. Editorial standards back then were not what they are today.

I've left some of Lee's more grandiose and opinionated claims from my edits, but the bit about St Thomas was my mistake - re-reading that section, he does write what you did, the return to St. Thomas was supposed to be with his ship, to collect a privateer commission.

Lee just says that Charleston had no defences whatsoever when blockaded - I've not included this however as it seemed a little superfluous. I intend to create a legacy section which explains Blackbeard's folk hero status, and perhaps that information can go in there. There's a lot to be said for his celebrity while living in Bath.

Lee won't be the only source I'm using. Its just the one I have with me now. I have The great days of piracy in the West Indies coming shortly, and as I've done with other articles I'll read through that, and where accounts differ, either generalise, or use notes to explain. There are also a few reliable online sources to peruse. Parrot of Doom 16:50, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I now have Angus Konstam's book Blackbeard: America's Most Notorious Pirate on the way. It seems quite thorough, and more up-to-date than Lee's book, with new discoveries correcting dates and such. Parrot of Doom 13:43, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Blackbeard's Jolly Roger

The Jolly Roger formerly in this article is definitely sourced. See Botting's The Pirates from TimeLife Books, p. 49, and Konstam's The History of Piracy for Osprey Military Publishing, p. 100-01.

That doesn't mean it's accurate, though. I have yet to see any primary source evidence that Blackbeard actually used that flag, and neither Konstam nor Botting cites a source for it. But I think the Wikipedia policy is to report the current state of the secondary literature, so I'm guessing the flag shown in Konstam and Botting should at least be mentioned. Pirate Dan (talk) 14:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Its a poor quality image anyway, but right now the image source in the file description won't pass FAC. Is the image copyright-free anyway? If its copied from the source above, and no mention of a source is given in that book, it might be a derivative work of the author, and on dodgy ground. Parrot of Doom 15:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

On a related note, What's with those gradients? They're pretty ugly and not at all likely to be accurate. APL (talk) 15:59, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Bartholomew Roberts

Looking through early publications on Google Books (1700–1922)(1923–1977), it seems there was no effort to mark this flag (File:Pirate Flag of Blackbeard (Edward Teach).svg) as Blackbeard's during 1700-1977. Most sources were general in speaking of his flag as the "Jolly Roger", "black flag", or "skull and crossbones".[3][4] Of those that talked of a bleeding heart (with three drops of blood) pierced with a dart wielded by a skeleton, they associated such designs with Bartholomew Roberts, Edward Low, and Francis Spriggs (see Treasure Island). These can be sourced to the first two pages of "Captain Spriggs, and his Crew" in A General History of the Pyrates. Illustrations of Roberts in said book, however, shows how far the representations (see images on the right, two of the representations can be seen in Roberts' article) of those ideas are from this version.

Quote from p. 234, note 109 of Treasure Island:

Jolly Roger: the common name for the black flag of piracy. The buccaneers had various ingenious symbols on their ensigns. Roberts flew a black silk flag at his mizzen-peak and a jack. "The Flag had a Death in it, with an Hour-glass in one Hand, and cross Bomnes in the other, a Dart by it, and underneath a Heart dropping three Drops of Blood. The Jack had a Man pourtray'd in it, with a flaming Sword in his Hand, and standing on two Skulls, subscribed A B H and A M H, i.e., a Barbadian's and a Martinican's Head." Captain Spriggs had a "black Ensign, which they called Jolly Roger, with the same Device that Captain Low carried, viz. a white Skeliton in the Middle of it, with a Dart in one Hand striking a bleeding Heart, and in the other, an Hour-glass." But the Jolly Roger was not always so elaborate. Some of Captain Davis's men "hoisted a dirty tarpawlin, by Way of black Flag, they having no other." — Johnson's "Pyrates."

No modern work or museum has stated the source for the association; most simply describe the design as Blackbeard's without telling whether their versions come from a historic copy or publication. Dan Parry's Blackbeard: The Real Pirate of the Carribean claims Blackbeard uses several flags (including this design, which was commonly used by other pirates). Woods Larson (professional diver) states in his Shipwrecks of the Cayman Islands that John Quelch first flew the design (with a human body instead of a skeleton), and Blackbeard followed with the skeleton. The John Quelch article (see the Old Roger? section) puts Quelch's flying of this standard as a myth (with sources). The only work I can find so far that casts aspersion on Blackbeard's connection with the design is Lewis's Blackbeard, the Pirate King, a National Geeographic publication targeted at the young: "Blackbeard's flag is commonly thought to be the one shown in this painting, although historic documents indicate that he probably flew the traditional skull-and-crossbones." A General History of the Pyrates never mentioned this design to be Blackbeard's flag as well.

It seems probable that Blackbeard never flew such a flag at all. I am uncertain whether the modern publications have found some proof to support their claims, but perhaps it would be wise to find out what is the basis for this claim they make. If anyone knows of a "bigger weight" source that debunks this idea, we can probably put in the proper flag (if Blackbeard did have an identifying flag) or note that the current flag is attributed to him by "common myth". Jappalang (talk) 00:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Turns out there was an earlier discussion about this, see Talk:Blackbeard/Archive 1#Blackbeard's flag not his flag?. Further investigation shows some OR that seems well-reasoned, and it seems the earliest modern interpretations of the flags come from an undated manuscript at the National Maritime Museum,[5][6][7] which was reprinted in H.G.Carr, "Pirate flags", Mariner's Mirror, Vol. 29, 1943, pp. 131–4.[8]. Without seeing the original manuscript or article in the Mariner's Mirror, I doubt we can find a conclusive statement in any modern sources used here on whether it was Teach's flag. Are there any objections to changing the caption for File:Pirate Flag of Blackbeard (Edward Teach).svg from "Teach's flag ..." to "This flag, commonly attributed as Teach's, ..."? Jappalang (talk) 02:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think something along the lines of a description of the image, rather than an attribution, would be better. I'll have a look to see what my sources say on the matter. Parrot of Doom 19:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Modern view Errors

The last paragraph has several errors. Marvel comics publishes the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man, not DC, as the article states. Spider-Man is also hyphenated, and not one word like Batman or Superman. One sentence also includes the grammatical error "an navy." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.156.44.27 (talk) 03:41, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. This part of the article I haven't really touched yet, so I'll clear up the discrepancies shortly. Parrot of Doom 13:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I can't find a source for these, so I'll stick it here for now. Maybe someone with some dead trees can sort it - "Blackbeard also appeared as the enemy of the comic series Fantastic Four, and Spider-man. " Parrot of Doom 22:41, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides

Could somebody please put in the fact that Blackbeard is going to be in the next Pirates of the Caribbean film? If you need a source, look in the Pirates of the Caribbean film series page. Thank you for your contribution for this page. --72.10.72.187 (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

This isn't really a news page, but when the film is released it will probably be appropriate to include a mention of it. Parrot of Doom 23:29, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, could we put it in when it was already confirmed, or at least when the film is in production? --72.10.72.187 (talk) 01:40, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTAL. Its a Hollywood film about pirates and magic, it isn't really all that relevant to this article except as a brief mention. Blackbeard might be relevant to the film, but it doesn't follow that the film is relevant to Blackbeard. Parrot of Doom 08:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

So, like right now, we could just write somewhere in the Modern view section that "Blackbeard would be the main villain in Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, and Ian McShane is going to portray him" in just 1 or 2 sentences? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.72.187 (talk) 01:48, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

perhaps when its released, but until then the film will have little relevance to this article. Other films and works can be said to demonstrate the continuing legend of Blackbeard, but an as-yet unreleased Hollywood blockbuster has no real relevance until we see what they do with his character. That's my 2pence anyway. Parrot of Doom 09:08, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see now. Well, you're right about that, because all we know for certain about Blackbeard in the film is that he's the main villain, as he was in the book it's supposedly based on, On Stranger Tides by Tim Powers. And in the film, unlike the novel, he has a daughter, who will be played by Penelope Cruz. But other than that, I can see why we can't post it yet, and although I would love to post it now, I can wait. Blackbeard is my favorite HISTORICAL pirate, but as you said, there isn't enough information about the character. --72.10.72.187 (talk) 19:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Cultural References

Many Wikipedia pages have a separate section for appearances in books and films. This one has just a few lines at the bottom of "modern view". Worth expanding into a section of its own with what could ultimately be a comprehensive list of all book and film appearances? For example, we could link his (anachronistic) appearance in Quicksilver (novel), in which he appears in 1713. --Matt Westwood 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I think prose is preferable to a list. What you appear to be suggesting is the (make cross with fingers) "popular culture" section (uncross fingers). I think you have to ask yourself, what exactly is Blackbeard's legacy? Is it really that important to list every fictional account ever made of his life? Blackbeard may well be relevant to those films and books, but are those films and books truly relevant to Blackbeard? Parrot of Doom 10:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why not. They contribute to people's understanding (or misunderstanding) of who he is/was. If, for example, it's mentioned that Teach was in such-and-such a novel but attributed erroneously as, etc. etc. then it would improve the perception of him as a historical individual. I don't know - it's your call. --Matt Westwood 12:05, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Its a fair point but a line has to be drawn somewhere. I tend to view such things as trivia, and prefer to stick to the salient points only. Parrot of Doom 12:18, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Title Change

Shouldn't the title of this article be Edward Teach(Blackbeard) not just Blackbeard as it was just a nickname?

Title Change

Shouldn't the title of this article be Edward Teach(Blackbeard) not just Blackbeard as it was just a nickname?

Pekayer11 (talk) 17:33, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Blackbeard is how he was most often known, and readers are more likely to be searching for Blackbeard than Edward Teach. Also it's not certain that his name was Teach (may have been thatch), but he is certainly known as Blackbeard. Nev1 (talk) 18:08, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I understand that Blackbeard was literate; this would mean that he was over ten when he first set out to sea? The question is, did he hire on as a cabin boy or was he shanghaied? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glammazon (talk • contribs) 02:20, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

The earliest case of Photoshopped image?

Something appears to be very wrong with the second illustration (it's to the left here). Particulary check the clothings. The bag the pirate wears below his stomach is just pure nonsense. And how his other sword (which is behind his back) is attached to him? Now compare it to the one on the right. It seems to be much more authentic. And it explains the issue with the sword too =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.131.187.80 (talk) 21:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Since both were created in 1724 I don't think you'll get the opportunity to put this to the artist. Parrot of Doom 21:31, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Comparing the two, I just can't believe they both are made by the same hand. Anyone who have an eye for art will tell, one of these is just crude forgery, it stands out a mile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.131.187.80 (talk) 20:10, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Considering copyright laws were practically non-existent when this book was published, I find it hard to believe anyone would modify the image just to avoid such a dispute. Its more likely that the fur-cap image appeared in the first edition of Johnson's book, and for the second edition the image was modified for whatever reason. The second edition image is, however, from a much better source than the fur-cap image, and therefore in my opinion its that image that should be used in the article. Its all a bit irrelevant however, since the artist was working from an embellished description, and not from real life. Parrot of Doom 20:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Blackbeard in One Piece

The Arthur Eiichiro Oda has stated that Blackbeard, real name also Edward Teach, in One piece is named after the real life version.so why can't this be put under modern view DreamsDreams (talk) 21:33, 11 June 2010 (UTC)DreamsDreams

Blackbeard appearing in Pirates 4

It doesn't matter if the film hasn't happen yet. There's nothing on Wikipedia policy that says that I can't say what's currently going to happen or happening. I can understand if you said I was crystal balling or something. But if the movie is already being filmed and if there is an proper source on it, then it ain't crystal balling. There is nothing wrong with what I put. Jhenderson777 (talk) 21:01, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you should look a little bit up this talk page. Wikipedia isn't a news ticker, and until the film is released and reviewed I don't see what relevance it holds to this article. I'd be very surprised if the Blackbeard written by Hollywood is even remotely connected to the Blackbeard written by history. Parrot of Doom 21:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I already said in the article that it is more connected to Blackbeard in the On Stranger Tides novel which is mentioned in the article. Even if it doesn't involve the historical character it doesn't mean the fictional character versions of him doesn't apply. That's why there should be an "In popular Culture" or "In Fiction" section of him. And your news ticker comment is exactly what I meant about Crystal Balling. But if the movie is already being filmed (and having it's own article) and already has its cast chosen, then its confirmed and OK for Wikipedia standards. Jhenderson777 (talk) 21:18, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Battle boxs

Why have the battle boxs been removed, all battles should have a battle box to help readers more easily see the specifics of the battle for quick reference without having to read through the entire page. There are many other articles on wiki that have such boxs within the text when no seperate page itself exists for the battle. (example HM Armed Smack Inverlyon, SS Stephen Hopkins, Ernest Martin Jehan, Earp Vendetta Ride) Instead of writing a new article about the Blockade of Charleston and the Battle of Ocracoke Inlet I chose to include the boxs here as all the appropriate information is already here. Especially since alot of the time small naval battle articles are merged into larger relevant articles. I know someone's excuse was that the box is "ugly", well ones personal opinon of beauty should not be edited into wiki. I really don't see why this should be a problem but as requested I have left my reason. Thank you.--$1LENCE D00600D (talk) 20:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

If nobody responds I must assume it is okay to add the boxs and will do so. thanks again--$1LENCE D00600D (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how a battle box belongs on a biographical page. Battle boxes belong on battle pages. We wouldn't put the Trafalgar battle box on Nelson's page, or the Midway battle box on Halsey's page. Pirate Dan (talk) 20:28, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I removed it because frankly it looked hideous, and added nothing that the reader could not already ascertain from the prose. If the battle is so notable, then why not create a separate article just for that battle, and put the box in there?

A point I would raise is that generally, the Pirate infobox is quite poor, and if anyone wanted to enhance it with such details then I wouldn't object. Parrot of Doom 22:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't really consider myself qualified to write an entire article about the battle but I will if I must. You asked why I don't create a seperate article, I do believe I already gave you my reason but I will write it again. On wiki there has been several small naval battle articles that have been written but later merged with a larger relevant article. To avoid writing the article, just so it can later be merged, I chose to add the boxs directly to the Blackbeard article. Personally I agree, I don't think any battle article should be combined with others but often that is how it is done unfortunatley. I would like to no what you mean by poor, specifics would be nice, reapeatedly stating that the box is "hideous" or "ugly" does not help, explain why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by $1LENCE D00600D (talk • contribs) 23:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

it is the pirate infobox that in my opinion is poor, not the battle infobox. That said, the inclusion of a battle infobox here is, in my opinion, unwarranted. Its doesn't really add anything to the article. Indeed adding it as you did just spoils the article's layout, hence "hideous". Because you can add such a box doesn't always mean that you must. Parrot of Doom 09:56, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

To Pirate Dan, the reason why we wouldn't add a battle box to Nelson's article is because the Battle of Trafalgar article already exists. If you would read more carefully you would understand that the article "Battle of Ocracoke Inlet" and the "Blockade of Charleston" do not exist and if created they would most likely be merged along with the dozens of other small naval battle articles. So to avoid the trouble of someone merging the articles I decided to add them directly. Also, battle boxs are for any page featuring a description of a battle. They are not neccessary for every relevant page though when an article about the battle itself is already in existance. It seems only the largest and most remembered naval engagements are not merged. It is unjustly different for small battles though. I will not add the boxs again I just wanted to respond to your comment.--$1LENCE D00600D (talk) 23:47, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Dan and Parrot that battle boxes should not appear inside another article where they spoil the layout, infoboxes in general are meant to provide statistics on top of a main article about the subject. As to the pirate infobox, there is already a parameter "battles", so if there are full articles on such battles, we can list them there and also place {{main}} in the relevant sections of the biography. De728631 (talk) 00:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

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