Talk:Blue Öyster Cult/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

hook-and-cross logo

The article states that the hook-and-cross is featured on every album cover, but I fail to see it on the Cultösaurus Erectus, Spectres and Bad Channels. The reference site (number 10) is down.

On Cultosaurus Erectus the symbol is on the side of a spaceship moving past the dinosaur. It's very small and likely not visible on the CD version, but can be seen on the LP jacket. On Spectres it's inside of the crystal ball. Don't know about Bad Channels.99.246.79.38 (talk) 08:48, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

The Name Blue Öyster Cult

The Name Blue Öyster Cult

This article says: "The umlaut on the "O" in their name started the trend for using the "heavy metal umlaut" in band names. It was suggested to Pearlman by rock critic Richard Meltzer. [1]"

But the BOC Official website (http://www.blueoystercult.com/History/history3.html) says: "It was at this time that the band was named, by Sandy Pearlman, “Blue Oyster Cult.” (The umlaut being added later by Allen Lanier). Initially, the band was not happy with the name, but settled for it, and went to work preparing to record their first release at David Lucas’ studio."

Which is right? WikiDon

I read Blue Oyster Cult is an anagram for Cully Stout Beer, which the band was drinking when trying to think of a name. Admittedly, it may not be true.(http://members.aol.com/bocfaqman/boc_faq.html)

I have read that as well. "I read Blue Oyster Cult is an anagram for Cully Stout Beer" Where I read it it was listed as a fact, not a myth. Let me find the book and I will place it here. Alantio 17:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Süre it's nöt Blüe Öyster Cült? *GIGGLE* 84.115.129.76 10:40, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

The BOCFAQ (http://members.aol.com/bocfaqman/), an extensive collection of facts and speculations about many important and less important tidbits, says the following about "Cully Stout Beer":

There is an interesting story as to how Pearlman and Meltzer came up with the term "Blue Oyster Cult". It has been reported in several BOC articles in the past, but is believed to be untrue. The story goes that Pearlman went off with Meltzer, got stoned, and noticed a bottle of "Cully Stout Beer". Using this name, the two tried to come up with a number of anagrams using the name, one of which was "Blue Oyster Cult", and that this was how they came up with the name. What is more likely however, is that Pearlman and Meltzer tried to come up with anagrams for "Blue Oyster Cult" and came up with "Cully Stout Beer". As Bolle Gregmar notes, the term "stout beer" is not a likely label for a beer (editor's note: sort of like labeling Pepsi Cola as "Pepsi Cola Soda").

I think this is a very good answer to that question. --134.130.57.172 00:35, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually the Blue Oyster Cult are the cult of people who worship the group of Aliens known as "Les Invisibles". Taken out of Sandy Pearlman's poetry The Soft Docrtines Of Immaginos Simdude1990 (talk) 11:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Umlaut

Richard Meltzer or Allen Lanier???

I think some people missed the question above: Who suggested that the "O" become an umlaut "Ö"? Meltzer or Lanier? > Best O Fortuna (talk) 06:27, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

This was Meltzer. Allen came up with the Kronos symbol Simdude1990 (talk) 11:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Discography

Shouldn't Heavy Metal be included in the Movie Soundtracks as Veteran of the Psychic Wars (not to mention the alternate title track) was written for the film? --Daddylight 01:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I read that section as movies which BÖC had composed soundtracks for (i.e. just Bad Channels), not movies that they had contributed a song to.. but then, the Video Game Soundtracks section lists games that feature a single song, and not one written specifically for the game! So go for it, add Heavy Metal to the list. :-) --Stormie 02:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Why does the discography section not contain charting data? I added data to it earlier today and it has since been removed--Hammard 21:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by that, I see a series of edits by User:86.148.48.13 (presumably you) and then User:Hammard adding the data, and nobody removing it. Perhaps after making the edit you refreshed and for some reason got a cached copy of the old version of the page?

Thanks for adding that, but can you also let us know your source for those numbers? --Stormie 22:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

In the movie "The Stand" they played "Don't fear the Reaper" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.203.63.219 (talk) 16:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

This discography says that BOC had 22 #1 singles in the U.S. This looks misleading if not outright false. At least according to Billboard, this would eclipse the Beatles' record (20). Someone should track down the correct data, or, specify what chart this to which these figures refer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.35.119 (talk) 22:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

What exactly is US MS? Having worked in radio for several years I can tell you BOC never had a #1 hit on ANY chart. Let alone 22. I don't have any factual sources at my disposal so I refrain from making an edit. This information has to be incorrect and should be deleted. I am more ready to believe album chart data than the single release data here. JH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.56.229 (talk) 11:57, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The vast incredible vast number of "charted singles" HAS to be incorrect as well. Someone please edit this properly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.56.229 (talk) 12:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

"Charted Singles" repeats the same series of numbers 9 times under the US MS and UK columns and there doesn't appear to be any order to the singles (chronologically, by album, etc.). This section seems to be totally inaccurate as mentioned above. Can someone with this information clean it up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsling309 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Imaginos and COntinued Touring

"In the Summer of 2005, Blue Öyster Cult performed at Retrofest in Chilliwack, British Columbia, with Rick Derringer, Edgar Winter, Jefferson Starship, and It's A Beautiful Day."

Is this line really necessary? BOC still plays dozens of shows all across North America and in Europe every year. Why does this particual performace receive a special mention?

+It doesn't+ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.173.5 (talk) 00:48, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Prog?

I don't see BOC as a progressive band. They did a concept album, but the Who, the Beatles, The Eagles, etc. did that and they are not prog bands. Rockgenre (talk) 02:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I do intend to remove progressive rock, unless anybody thinks otherwise. We need to get a majority here either for it or against it. Thanks.Rockgenre (talk) 01:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

If no one speaks to the topic does not mean there was no opinion. No response can sometimes indicate that the question wasn't worth asking and not worth the time wasted to respond. If you had reviewed the article edit history you would have seen that the term has been in place for a very long time. And many veteran editors have made changes to the article in the time that the prog term has been in place... but guess what... no one was ever offended by it so no one ever bothered to delete it. That is almost as good as consensus for an article that has been around for as long as this one has. If it was worth deleting... someone would have done it already. But, since they didn't, then it must have community approval. The Real Libs-speak politely 19:30, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't going to speak on this, but I agree with Libs. Really, I think over the course of their career BOC has released enough prog material for it to be considered one of their primary genres, and even if I didn't believe this, there is still a relatively large number of people (from what I understand) who believe it. Really, I guess one could argue on the same basis that we could shorten it to simply 'Hard rock, heavy metal,' as those are really the only two of their primary genres which have been present in pretty much every era of BOC's evolving catalogue. I'm in favour of keeping the prog tag.(Albert Mond (talk) 11:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC))

I don't know of that many sources that back up them being a prog band. Other than music might (http://www.musicmight.com/artist/united+states/new+york/long+island/blue+oyster+cult) and the allmusic for AoF do mention them incorporating prog into their music (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kiftxqq5ldhe), but they also mention them having some punk in them as well in that review. I think we should have the opinions of a few more editors on whether or not prog should be in the box before we add it. Rockgenre (talk) 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

trivia

"In John Carpenter's Halloween, "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" is playing on the car radio as Jamie Lee Curtis's character drives around with her friend while smoking a joint."

I thought it was just a smoke (tobacco) can anyone verify my claim? --Chaos2501 (talk) 10:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Sandy Dharma(Roesser): Non-Apologist

What is this supposed to mean? Didn't find any other info in the article (neither in the web after a fast search). Who is this guy and what kind of instrument is the "Non-Apologist"?--85.150.197.17 (talk) 12:54, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Can't help about "Non-apologist", but IIRC Sandy is Donald "Buck Dharma" Roeser's wife. She provides some vocals on Buck's "Flat Out" album. --Wesley R. Elsberry (talk) 04:53, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Influences

"Also, the guitar line in the song Smells Like Teen Spirit by the Seattle grunge band Nirvana is fairly similar to that of the guitar line in Blue Öyster Cult's Godzilla..."

Ok, I'm deleting this. It doesn't cite Nirvana saying something like this, hundreds of riffs from the 80s and 90s sound like Godzilla, and the riff form "Teen Spirit" sounds like a lot of other riffs too...--Elmerfadd (talk) 12:59, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain himself named the Riff a rip-offof Bostons More than a Feeling, which is a direct Rip-off of the Bridge Riff from the Cream Song Badge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.196.225.184 (talk) 09:19, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Not that I think it's notable, but I'd like to mention that I've read that Cobain's journal contains a line that reads "...Teen Spirit has an uncanny resemblance to Godzilla by Blue Oyster Cult," though I've never given the book itself a read. (Albert Mond (talk) 10:26, 1 August 2010 (UTC))

Charts

Okay, As coll as it would be if BOC had that many hits...I'm pretty sure they only had 2 US hits, and nowhere near as many singles. People need to stop adding random stuff96.239.148.46 (talk) 05:22, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Record Sales

I'd like to see proof for the 124 million record sales, there's no citations and it seems unlikely a band that sold that many would have such a dramatic fall from commercial grace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.121.55 (talk) 22:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Singles

The singles section needs cleaned out, the mainstream rock chart was not created until 1981, not to mention that they are not in chronological order.

Toho Co. v. Honda Motor Cars (re Godzilla)

Toho Co. filed a lawsuit against Honda for unauthorized use of "Godzilla", arguing that "Judas Priest" was compensated by Honda and so should Toho. This is a case where the lack of rock and roll knowledge may set back the plaintiffs.

CBS article quoting the Toho Co. complaint

--Wesley R. Elsberry (talk) 14:10, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I've seen a comment that the "Godzilla" song was added to the segment I heard by NPR, which would make the above comment invalid. --Wesley R. Elsberry (talk) 01:53, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Spinal Tap

Spinal Tap is not a parody band. I took that out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.10.9 (talk) 04:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow. Really? Hurry go tell Nigel Tufnel and Rob Reiner!

Band members

Why is it that there's a timeline but no list of former members on this page? I believe there used to be a list of members on the page, was there a consensus to remove it? Burbridge92 (talk) 17:50, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Why is there no mention or reference to Jack Rigg? He was a guitar player and composer for the Cult on a number of tracks. http://www.allmusic.com/artist/jack-rigg-mn0000485459/credits Can anyone please add his name to Members section and/or Timeline section for the years he was with the band? Thank you. (Warren Zenna (talk) 13:12, 1 September 2014 (UTC))

Years active

Recently changed from 1967 to 1971. 1971 was the year they adopted the present name. What is policy on this? Active years on all names or just the article name?--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea what the policy on this is… however, since Stalk Forrest Group (etc) and Blue Öyster Cult were the same band undergoing a "name refresh", which happens fairly frequently, I can see no good reason to exclude the years 1967-1970 from the "years active". From the article itself:

Eric Bloom (formerly the band's acoustic engineer) replaced Braunstein, and the band continued to perform as Soft White Underbelly. However, a bad review of a 1969 Fillmore East show caused Pearlman to change the name of the band - first to Oaxaca, then to the Stalk-Forrest Group.

FWIW. - bonze blayk (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I will add it back then. If it is reverted we should follow normal procedure for en:wp. Edit war, get all involved blocked, and then seek consensus after all the blocks expire?--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:08, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I changed the date because this page states that their name was changed to Blue Oyster Cult in 1971. Therefore, Blue Oyster Cult came into existence in 1971. Anyone who played with the band but left before the name change was never a member of Blue Oyster Cult. I can't see any other way of looking at it. - SnakeRambo (talk) 22:40, 16 Septmber 2012 (UTC)

Lasers

When the band played a nightclub I worked at, we were told the band no longer uses a laser light show due to a lawsuit. I believe that someone was blinded from a misdirected laser beam. Any confirmation on this or when? 22yearswothanks (talk) 04:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Could be an urban myth, or they stopped because there was another band that got in trouble. The rumour may have started because of the Spectres cover. It would probably go in the laser articles as well as this one if you can find any RS. Being a lawsuit thing, you would need good RS and strong consensus to include it as well as whether is is notable enough to include.--Canoe1967 (talk) 04:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The true story may be somewhere in between. According to these 2 articles, Blue Öyster Cult weren't sued but OSHA inspectors were such a hassle that they sold the lasers. That makes sense that they didn't want the liability but had no problems with using the nightclub's own laser system during the show. This first article refers to a Billboard magazine article. http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=42074 http://www.blueoystercult.com/History/history6.html 22yearswothanks (talk) 16:28, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Winters: Bass

Im not sure if Andrew Winters ever played the keyboards, but I know as a fact that he was originally the bassist, got booted because Albert wanted his bro in the band. My reference is the short email interview I did with Mr Winters back in 2010. I happen to be in contact with many past and present members. I am BOCSuperFan AKA Simdude1990 (talk) 12:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

What is a "stun guitar"?

Eric Bloom plays the "stun guitar" -- could someone please explain what that is and add it to the entry? Thank you. Rissa, copy editor (talk) 00:10, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

According to the BÖC FAQ - which, apparently, is blacklisted so I can't link to it (but try this Google search), there is some dispute over what exactly this means - if indeed it means anything at all. Maybe distorted (fuzz) guitar; maybe loud; maybe muted; maybe just that Eric Bloom is a Star Trek nerd. --Stormie (talk) 04:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Per Buck Dharma (in Vintage Guitar Magazine), "We made up stun guitar to describe some of the fuzz parts Eric did. In fact, there’s a stun guitar part on the new record!"[1] - SummerPhD (talk) 12:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

It was a term used on album sleeves, but you cannot buy a rhythm, lead or stun guitar. Guitar will do.--SabreBD (talk) 17:12, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

How many studio albums?

Apparently under the idea that Cult Classic is not a studio album, an IP editor boldly removed it from the list and changed the number of studio albums. Upon being reverted, they restored their change and said I should start a discussion if I disagreed. While that is not how it works, here we are.

I guess the reasoning is that Cult Classic is essentially a "greatest hits" album, making it a collection of existing material. This is almost true. Rather than being a collection of existing material, the songs were re-recorded for this album. Additionally, Cult Classics says, "Cult Classic is the thirteenth studio album by the American hard rock band Blue Öyster Cult..." After this, it gets rather murky.

Prior to the IP's changes, this article listed the "studio" albums as: ...

• Bad Channels (1992) (12th on the list)
• Cult Classics (1994) (13th)
• Heaven Forbid (1998) (14th)

... The problems:

1. Bad Channels, though not originally at issue here, is a soundtrack album with 2 new (I think...) songs by BOC, 9 songs by 5 other acts, then the film's soundtrack by BOC. The target article does not call it a "studio album". Should it be on this list?
2. Is Cult Classic a "studio album" given it is new recordings of previously released songs?
3. Heaven Forbid says it is the 13th studio album. This conflicts with the pre-change list here and Cult Classic. It agrees with the IP's change.

In hopes of finding previous discussion on this and/or guidelines that apply, I've raised the question at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums#.22Studio.22_albums.3F, asking for responses here. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:16, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, it seems albums like this are usually considered more like compilation or b-side albums, not main studio albums. I'm not aware of the guidelines or discussions on it, just merely how I tend to see it with other bands... Sergecross73 msg me 15:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Sergecross73: I'm not sure I understand which of the questions you were answering. In your opinion: 1) Is Bad Channels (the soundtrack with other artists) a "BOC studio album"? 2) Is Cult Classic (the re-recordings of older songs) a "BOC studio album"? - SummerPhD (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I was saying neither would be a studio album. Both sound more like compilations. One features other bands, and one considers redone older work. Sergecross73 msg me 22:14, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Per the Wiki article (though the section is unsourced, it's conventional wisdom): A studio album is "an album of audio recordings made up of tracks recorded in a recording studio. A studio album contains newly written and recorded or previously unreleased or remixed material, distinguishing itself from a compilation or reissue album of previously recorded material, or live recording made at a performance venue."
Bad Channels, though a soundtrack album featuring songs from various bands, apparently includes new compositions from the band (songs and a score), so it would be one; and judging by AllMusic, which says it's a Greatest Hits/compilation album, Cult Classic is not one.--Lapadite (talk) 20:41, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Bad Channels is a soundtrack album, not a studio album. It isn't just Blue Oyster Cult material either, which would also make it not a BOC studio album.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:40, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

From what I've gathered, Bad Channels is a soundtrack that features other artists' music but is curated by and includes new compositions from the band. Whether it can be considered a Blue Oyster Cult album is up for interpretation, however it should be up to reliable sources whether it is or isn't. --Lapadite (talk) 00:12, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

AllMusic is wrong on that one. Cult Classic is clearly a studio album. All the songs were recorded specifically for this album, so it's not a compilation, even it is comprised only of re-recordings. On the contrary, Bad Channels features only two songs by Blue Oyster Cult, so calling it a Blue Oyster Cult studio album is wrong in my opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JPGR69 (talk • contribs) 17:20, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Bad Channels is clearly not a studio album. Cult Classics is a difficult one to pin down, for sure. I could go either way on that one.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 17:30, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

I think we're drifting a bit on Bad Channels. For one thing, the cover seems to be clearly indicating it is a BOC album:

Image:BOC bad channels.jpg

It is not 11 tracks of which two are BOC songs. It is 11 individual songs (2 by BOC) AND a 19 track score by BOC.

I do not have a specific opinion as to whether or not to count this as a BOC "studio" album, but Bad Channels is not a simply a compilation of 11 songs, 2 of which are BOC songs. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:59, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Can't just claim AllMusic, a reliable secondary source, is wrong because you disagree. It's evidently a compilation as it does not include new songs and it's not an album of remixes or previously unreleased material; you said yourself: "it is comprised only of re-recordings". That rules it out as a studio album. --Lapadite (talk) 00:12, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Alternate suggestion

There is clearly some ambiguity here and I think any decision kind of sweeps that under the rug. I'm thinking we might reword the discussion to discuss "albums", rather than "studio albums" and strike the "___th studio album" in a handful of later album articles. This would leave a bit of confusion at Blue Öyster Cult discography (where Cult Classic is currently listed as a studio album and Bad Channels is segregated as a "soundtrack album"). Without cleanup, the discography article at least lists all of them. (Perhaps we can re-title the sections to do away with the ambiguity there, but that's a separate discussion.) - SummerPhD (talk) 17:59, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are addressing here. The ambiguity was whether or not those two albums should be called "studio" album or not. Are you suggesting that the albums, on their respective articles, be simply called "albums?" I have no objection to that, and it should help resolve some of the ambiguity. But it doesn't help for the discog page. I'll grant the argument that Bad Channels is a BOC album, but still is clearly a soundtrack album, and rightly has its own section on the discog article.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 18:22, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Cult Classics, there was a lengthy discussion on a similar matter for The Abbey Road Sessions (Kylie Minogue album), re-recordings of previously released material. Basically, and I would tend to agree, it comes down to what independent and reliable sources refer to it as not what any of us think it should be. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 21:33, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what to think about Bad Channels, it is clearly a complicated case. However, I stand on my point about Cult Classic. All the tracks were recorded specifically for the album, so it certainly can't be called a compilation. The fact that these tracks had already been released before in different versions should not be taken into account, or else we would have to exclude from such lists every album by every artist featuring a re-recorded track. For instance, Stars And Stripes by the Beach Boys would be considered as a compilation, which everyone agrees it isn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JPGR69 (talk • contribs) 12:08, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Proposing changing styling of "moe." to Moe

In the "Legacy and influence" section, the band moe. is referenced twice. This stylization of the bands name, while technically correct, could be confusing to the reader without context. (The reason I find myself writing this is that I originally thought it was a typo.)

On the page for the band, the opening "Moe, generally stylized as moe.," says to me that it would be okay to use Moe instead of the current stylization that doesn't seem to add anything.

Spike35031 (talk) 03:52, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Umlaut

According to Albert Bouchard, in "A Conversation with Albert Bouchard of Blue Oyster Cult" on YouTube, Allen Lanier proposed the umlaut. He’s surely a sufficiently authoritative source. There’s no reason to mention anyone else who lays claim to the mark.Nicmart (talk) 18:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

"more cowbell" reference

"Their hit single "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" was featured in the famous Saturday Night Live sketch, "More cowbell". The original recording was produced at The Record Plant in New York by David Lucas, who sang background vocals with Roeser and played the now famous cowbell part. Manager Sandy Pearlman mixed the record."

Why is the second sentence relevant to the SNL sketch?

Also, there's no secondary reference to the instrument in question being a cowbell in the first place, and I've seen and heard evidence (including the actual recording) that it is indeed a wood block, so while the SNL sketch has been copiously referred to in secondary sources, "the now famous cowbell part" implies that it definitely was a cowbell to being with. NewkirkPlaza (talk) 17:07, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Danny Miranda

I think the link on Danny Miranda's name is wrong? I don't know anything, but I doubt a Cuban baseball player was also a member of Blue Oyster Cult... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snens (talk • contribs) 06:27, 6 February 2020 (UTC)