Talk:Borys Lyatoshynsky

Moves strange addition to talk

This below is the text added by user:Paeris. perhaps there is something in it, but we have to do some work to get any sense from it.

And is best known for his music works which have for symphony and orchestra work and perhaps his vocal choral work. He was not a rock and roll music but of the classic style and Moscow where before he made romantic lyric music. He is big maker of Ukranian national music.

Dear author, if you have difficulty with English, please let us know what you meant to say in Ukranian or in Russian and mention any sources (the latter is desirable but not mandatory). --Irpen 23:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Irpen, if you have more to be wrong with, please go ahead. All I have said is fact and you can look in books and see yourself. user:Paeris

Dear Paeris, this simply isn't an encyclopedic writing. I beleive this person deserves more space than this small stub, but what you added needs rephrased, at least. I can't make sense from what you wrote. Please explain your edit in English, Ukrainian or Russian. And please calm down now! --Irpen 23:34, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps this is better: "And he is best known for his music works, such as symphony and orchestra. He has also finished many vocal work for chorus. He was not of the music produced towards his death in 1960's, such as rock and roll music, but he was of the classical style such as when he was living in Moscow. Originally in Moscow he produced romantic lyric music. He became known as a big maker of Ukrainian national musics."

Symphony 4

I'll have to find a copy of the score - I believe New York Public Library may have this ... but B-flat minor, I thought? Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Keys

Fairly sure symphony 2 is in B minor (tonal center B, primarily the B minor/D major scale) not B flat as written- looks like a mistranslation from French or elsewhere , to confuse those two! No 3 also in B minor, #4 in B-flat minor... Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:44, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

(And his 4-plus string quartets are another matter of course. Iirc the score of qt#4 is floating around somewhere and seems to be in B-flat minor...) Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:46, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Factual mistake and translation problems

"...folk material in his music, widening his repertoire of folk themes and making references to the other republics of the Soviet Union, such as Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, Serbia, and Slovakia." Except Russia, none of these were part of the Soviet Union. Besides that, the English is very poor, many sentences are unclear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:41:4200:2EEA:CCC1:ADB:B9B4:ADEA (talk) 11:28, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Borys Lyatoshynsky/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 20:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Sources are reliable other than the queries noted below, though I can't fully evaluate the non-English sources and am taking them on faith.

• File:Borys Lyatoshynsky and his family.jpg was probably not published in the US until at least 30 days after publication elsewhere, and from the age of the composer it is after 1927, so per the Hirtle chart I think it's still copyrighted in the US.

I find this comment a bit confusing. As the composer was born in 1895, and he is the boy on the right, this means the photograph was taken in c.1905-1910, i.e. it is in the public domain. I have replaced the permissions template with {{PD-old-70-1923}}.Amitchell125 (talk) 07:33, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Oops. Misread that; he's the boy in the picture, of course. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:56, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

• Do you know when File:Liatoshinsky.jpg was first published, and where? The Commons file only says the Ukrainian Wikipedia, and it's not in the uk-wiki version of this article. We need the source to verify that it's before 1946 as the tag asserts, which does seem possible given his apparent age in the photo.

Unfortunately, the photo looks very much as if it was taken from an old Russian/Ukrainian newspaper article, but there's nothing I could find to date it. Image removed. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• What makes the following reliable sources?
  • earsense.com
  • classicalmusicsentinel.com

Removed. Amitchell125 (talk) 21:15, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The Lyatoshynsky family moved with Borys's father Mykola Lyatoshynsky [uk], a history teacher, who during his career was the head teacher of high schools in Zhytomyr, Nemyriv, Kyiv, and—from 1908 to 1911—in Zlatopol." Looks like an incompletely edited sentence -- moved where?

Sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:21, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "although the piano part was known to be over-dominant": "known" seems an odd word choice -- do you mean "said by reviewers" or "by listeners"?

Text amended. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Skriabin": I usually see this transliterated as "Scriabin".

Thanks for spotting that one. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Working on the symphony for six months during 1934, The work was criticised in the press, even though it had yet to be performed,": more editing debris?

Sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• Uncited sentence in the "Moscow Conservatory" section.

Removed, as I cannot find the correct citation. Amitchell125 (talk) 08:10, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Evacuated there along with his colleagues, In Saratov, the Ukrainian Taras Shevchenko Radio Station broadcast political speeches and daily concerts of Ukrainian music." Another incomplete sentence. And why is it interesting to know what the radio broadcast?

Text amended. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:15, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "he took charge and led": redundant.

Sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:47, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "A similar vision of the war to Nikolai Myaskovsky's Symphony No. 5 was expressed in the symphony." Suggest " A vision of the war similar to that in [or of] Nikolai Myaskovsky's Symphony No. 5 was expressed in the symphony"

Done. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The reflective second movement is redeemed by a finale": I don't think we can say "redeemed" in Wikipedia's voice.

Balanced? Amitchell125 (talk) 20:14, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• '"a brief but really haunting invention"': the cite should go no later than the end of the sentence for a direct quote.

Done. Amitchell125 (talk) 20:04, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• "The symphony's coda contains lyrical string solos a subdued clashing of bells": looks like this is missing a word, perhaps "and"?

Sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:42, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• There is a "failed verification" tag in the article.

I couldn't find a suitable replacement, so I removed the text. Amitchell125 (talk) 20:46, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:11, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

All issues are fixed. A couple of spotchecks:

• FNs 5 & 37 are used to cite "The Kyiv Chamber Choir and the Kharkiv Music School [uk] are named after Lyatoshynsky". I see the first in FN 37; I can see FN 5 is referring to something that Google translates as "People's Artist of the Ukrainian SSR Borys Mykolayovych Lyatoshinskyi" but I can't see that it's the Kharkiv Music School -- am I missing something?

Confusion sorted, I hope. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:17, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

37 is OK, but where in 5 does it say Kharkiv Music School? I'm using Chrome's translation so it may be screwing something up. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: For me, the last sentence translates as "The Kyiv Chamber Choir and the Kharkiv Music School are named after Lyatoshinskyi." (Ім'ям Лятошинського названо Київський камерний хор й Харківське музичне училище.). Amitchell125 (talk) 07:49, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, same here -- I guess Ctrl-F doesn't always work on a Chrome-translated page. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:48, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• FN 43 cites " it was written as his graduation composition at a time when he had become influenced by the music of Scriabin and Richard Wagner. It was conducted in 1919 by Glière": this is incorrect; it was conducted in 1923 by Glière. The rest of the cited text is fine.

Thanks, now sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:19, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

• FN 2 cites an alternative spelling of his name; verified.
• FN 29 cites "Lyatoshynsky worked on the symphony for six months during 1934": verified.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:56, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Strikes above; one left. Earwig is clean -- just some titles and short strings. Just FN 5 left now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Last fix is good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:48, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Lyatoshinsky not exactly persecuted "with Prokofiev and Shostakovich"

The previous wording in that section of this article implies that Lyatoshinsky had been among those named in the 1948 Anti-Formalist Resolution on Music. This is incorrect. The only composers named were Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Myaskovsky, Khachaturian, Shebalin, and Popov (Marina Frolova-Walker, Stalin's Music Prize: Soviet Culture and Politics, p. 226). Although Lyatoshinsky doubtlessly was also persecuted during this period at the local level of the Ukrainian SSR, this was something apart from the main Resolution and unlike what Prokofiev and Shostakovich endured. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 22:41, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 17:07, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Lyatoshynsky in 1920

• ... that Borys Lyatoshynsky (pictured) composed his First Symphony during his student years at the Kyiv Conservatory? Source: [1]
  • Reviewed: to come

Improved to Good Article status by Amitchell125 (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 11:28, 12 September 2022 (UTC).

• The article was promoted to GA status within seven days of the nomination and appears to meet DYK guidelines. I also didn't find any close paraphrasing. I'm a fan of the hook, as I think it's impressive to write a symphony at such a young age; I'm assuming good faith for the sourcing as they're books. This will be good to go once a QPQ has been provided. Although I like the original hook, I do wonder if additional hooks could be proposed here in order to give the promoter more choices. For example, a hook about him writing an emotional piano piece the day his father died, or perhaps a hook about his legacy, could also be possible options. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:29, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

  Thank you for the review. I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Absolutely Sweet Marie. I picked the hook to match the image in time. I like the intensity of his look at me, - stronger than our short words. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:39, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment : As per the request, here are two alternatives. I don't think either of these are better than the original, which I like, and I think it's snappy. But these are intriguing as well. Unfortunately, ALT2 is very long, perhaps too long.
  • ALT1: ... that Borys Lyatoshynsky (pictured) wrote Mourning Prelude, a very powerful work and possibly his most tragic, the day his father died of typus.
  • ALT2: ... that Borys Lyatoshynsky (pictured), who received the award Honoured Artist of the USSR, wrote works that did not adhere to the Communist Party doctrine and were never performed publicly during his lifetime.
• BTW: The caption on the photo says 2020 instead of 1920 as it should. Radzy0 (talk) 00:30, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

  Thank you for the offers, Radzy0. Blushing about my typo in the caption. Next time, please just fix such a thing ;) - ALT1 has a lot of opinion, and the piece rather small in his vast work. ALT2 is very general, while we already had the content (not the prize) more specifically for Luigi Gaggero, and relates to a later time in his life than pictured, and I love the pic. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm rewriting ALT1 as the following: ALT1a ... that Borys Lyatoshynsky (pictured) wrote Mourning Prelude, possibly his most tragic work, the day his father died of typhus? I'm approving both ALT1a and ALT0; while I have a slight preference for ALT1a, ALT0 is also acceptable, I will ultimately leave the final choice to the promoter. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)