Talk:Breyers

Breyers/Dreyers confusion

From the writing, it is not clear which brand is considered the knock-off of the other? As a Philadelphian, I know Breyer's much better, but this might not hold for the West Coast, so I cannot clarify! Hillsboro 16:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought the same thing. Still confused. cdpanic 10:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed! Breyers was founded before Dreyer's. As a right-coaster, I'd never heard of Dreyer's until I saw the brand on the "Modern Marvels" TV show. I thought Dreyer's was ripping off Edy's AND Breyers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.231.172 (talk) 00:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

As a New Yorker and ice cream lover, I was not aware of such a confusion until I saw this article. I've never heard of Dryers until now. I am removing this paragraph because of 1) the confusion that Hillsboro mentioned 2) it's inaccurate and not useful 3) no citation or is a matter of opinion. We now have confirmation from both coasts that Dryers is not well-known, so there is no "popular misconception". pogo (talk) 07:41, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I live in California where both Dreyer's and Breyer's are on shelves. They are both very popular brands and it is confusing. In fact, it's something I've always wondered about! I buckled down and did some research, hopefully fixing all three of Pogo's issues with the content. Pisomojado (talk) 05:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

From what I understand, Dreyer's and Edy's are the same brand. For whatever reason, Edy's is in the midwest and east coast, Dreyer's the west coast. Past that, I don't know any specifics. For the record I also haven't looked up the wikipedia article for Dreyer's or Edy's. 76.178.190.166 (talk) 08:36, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully, all of the confusion discussed above has finally been eliminated by this article. The section "Confusion with Dreyer's" should make it all clear.

- Smike (talk) 23:56, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I am also from New York and have never heard of Dreyers. Breyers I like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.4.58 (talk) 02:05, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Reads like an Advertisement

This article seems to read like an advertisement and looks like it was written by people working for the company... It's a good brand, but it needs to be less POV. I may get around to fixing it later if no one else is willing. --The Way 06:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

It was good ice cream until recently. They say it is all natural because they put "natural tara gum" in it. Well what if they put natural MSG in it? That would be the same thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.142.50 (talk • contribs) 2007-01-11T19:45:55 (UTC) ````Fritz

I second this and have added a NPOV tag. --Inexplicable 00:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

What exactly sounds like an ad? The first section talks about how the "Pledge of Purity" is now obsolete. And the final section is about how many consumers are ticked off about the recent recipe changes. There are 2 links to anti-breyer's sites. To what, exactly, are you objecting?cdpanic 19:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, people. I don't know what isn't neutral about this article or how it's written like an ad. I would agree that it's a stub and needs further development, but I think the sections to which you are referring would be appropriate for a "company background" section and are not necessarily biased. I think this page is tagged incorrectly so please explain, or I'm changing the tags.cdpanic 03:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The External Links section sounds very biased, like it's trying to spread propaganda about the company. It sounds like "you will die if you eat this ice cream". Could it be changed to just say how many of Breyers' long-time customers have been greatly disappointed to see them use preservatives now? Burnside65 14:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Made some POV changes - in particular toned down the "greedy corporation" stuff while keeping intact their grounds for complaint (and links to external resources) Chewyrunt 14:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It is certainly true that this entry reads like an advertisement. Unilever has seed to it that no negative comments may be made. Nonetheless, Unilver has destroyed the only remaining pure ice cream, once made without tara gum or any other non dairy item. While Unilever claims that their additives are natural, so are any number of other things, from the most unmentionable to barn hay. But would you want them in your ice cream? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.196.246 (talk) 22:16, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

It reads like an ad because it is copied directly from the Breyers/Unilever website. If it wasn't obvious that they put it here there would be a concern about copyright infringement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.82.163 (talk) 03:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

"All Natural"

Nothing about how since Breyers was purchased by Unilever they've started using emulsifiers in their "All Natural" ice cream? Carageenan, carob bean gum, something called "tara bean gum" ... and corn syrup instead of sugar. To my eye, it appears that they've been converting over, flavor by flavor, for a few years now. Now even their vanilla has gone to the dark side.

Check out carageenan in a google search. I find it scary stuff. And it's in literally almost everything.

This is, of course, the company that used to run commercials of a Mikey-like kid skeptically reading the ingredients on one of those *other* ice cream brands ("carageenan? Guar gum??") I'd add this information, but darn it, I can't find any decent sources on when they started doing it, what they've done, when their old "All Natural" ad campaign ran (70's-80's?)

Where's a corporate whistle-blower when you need one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.210.17.33 (talk) 2006-10-27T13:21:00 (UTC)

I personally remember seeing those ads in at least the 90s and possibly the early 00s, but I can't verify it with a source. Burnside65 13:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Right, can't source it, but I recall that when they started adding adulterants in to 90's they revived the old "all natural" commercials in a grand act of hypocrisy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.33.82 (talk) 01:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The ingredients you listed actually are all-natural. I'd be more concerned with mono- and di-glycerides. Vranak

Please note (just corrected in the article) that although they have indeed added (natural) tara gum to their "All Natural" varieties, the other ingredients being discussed here (e.g. Polysorbate 80) have only been added to their other (low-fat, low-carb, etc.) varieties. Chewyrunt 14:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Chewyrunt, that might be true as of 2007. As of 2012, other then maybe 6 to 8 flavors of their product, all of them now have things like carageenan, replace sugar with corn syrup and so forth. As the article itself states, most of their product doesn't even qualify as ice cream but is labelled "Frozen Dairy dessert" in the United States. It is pretty much a parody of their former product now IMO. 76.178.190.166 (talk) 08:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

And (in Canada at least) the "All Natural" line has disappeared, replaced by "Double Churn", which is loaded with gums and crap (though still not quite as crappy as their cheaper line). Does the "All Natural" line still exist anywhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.227.103 (talk) 20:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea with regards to Canada, but the 8 or so flavors that they have left as real ice cream only have tara gum as an additive. I'd have to go to their website or look in my local grocery store to see if those flavors are labelled "all natural". I'm in the States as an aside. 98.145.238.99 (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Stephen Breyer

, grandfather of U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Stephen Breyer [1],

I found this bit of information interesting, but then I was unable to find a source for it, or any mention of it anywhere. The "source" links to an amazon book on ice cream, but no actual quotation to verify it. Moving to the talk page until cited.

This information can safely be ignored (or better yet deleted); the talk page for that IP address indicates at least three other counts of vandalism on the day that edit was made. Chewyrunt 16:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Shrinking Product Size

Moved following text from article:

In 2001, Breyers half-gallon "brick" box was replaced by a 1.75 quart tub. In April 2008, the 1.75 quart tub was replaced by a 1.5 quart container. Prices have not changed during these transitions.

• google groups is not an appropriate cite
• should indicate that this is an industry-wide phenomenon
• NPOV: implication is that prices should have gone down with these changes, but ice-cream makers claim that the cost of ingredients has gone up and that these changes prevented prices from rising
• too sweeping: Breyers has kept the size of some of their 'classic' lines at 1.75 qt

Chewyrunt (talk) 13:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Updated with a better version to suit your notes. Also, I was unable to find evidence that any 1.75 quart tubs are still being produced. The remaining ones seems to be old stock that is being depleted.

Good work, thanks for tracking down the citations. I removed one of them (Yahoo! answers) because it only added a link to one of the other citations (which I left in). Also suggest you create an account on Wikipedia (mainly so your contribution history won't be lost if your IP address changes). Chewyrunt (talk) 20:05, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

References

Lickable.

This article should state that the infamous Lickable. campaign is actually a hoax. I came to this page to find more information about it, but i didn't.. Found it elsewhere though. Anyways, some wikifanatic should do it :) I'm not much of an encyclopedian.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.119.178.77 (talk) 19:10, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Why Trash Up the Ice Cream

Adding disgusting artificial swill to the ice cream only produced hatred in what were once loyal customers. I see that the only kind to have semi-real ingredients is the vanilla / chocolate / strawberry. If those turn, prepare to pay dearly! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.135.252.44 (talk) 08:12, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

'Products' seection seems advertise-y

I'm sure there's a better way to explain the difference in their products. Using the same terms as the advertising campaign doesn't sound fair and unbiased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:1208:8098:A853:4C19:242B:B51E (talk) 21:59, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Support The full name makes more sense. --evrik ^(talk) 17:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Neutral. It made sense to me, until I looked at the article and saw the same name is used for yogurt. It's unclear to me that it is at all related, other than the name (it is owned by a different company). If this page is moved and there isn't any relationship with the yogurt, it should be removed, or, if notable, given its own page. Rigadoun (talk) 18:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Frozen yougurt was made long after the company established itself as an ice cream company. --evrik ^(talk) 13:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. After digging a little more on the Breyers website, the name is always listed as "Breyers® Ice Cream" rather than "Breyers Ice Cream®", suggesting that the current title is the correct page name, particularly in light of Rigadoun's comment. Dekimasuよ! 03:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
  • My guess is that you can't trademark the words ice cream, but I would note that the only thing they made was ice cream, and the official website is http://www.breyersicecream.com .--evrik ^(talk) 13:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 18:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Repeated edits from 71.224.*.*, 68.36.*.*, and 24.0.*.* (map to *.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)

Several of your recent edits to Breyers are not in keeping with Wikipedia guidelines. I respectfully suggest that you use this discussion page instead for opinion and commentary. Believe it or not I'm on your side regarding the changes to the product - my baby just turned one and I was looking forward to his first taste of ice cream - which I had always assumed would be Breyers - but after tasting it ourselves my wife and I decided it's not good enough for him and we're going to go with another brand (most likely Turkey Hill). Chewyrunt 16:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Face it. Who made the changes? Uniliver - and who owns Unilever? Just do some research - the same group who diminishes the quality. of everything. No, it's not politically correct. And they have made it virtually a horror to decry what they do, but - just look around, From Disney to Breyers to books and schools, they are determining everything. Even this passage will have a short life because they will edit it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.192.194 (talk) 01:58, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

If you have useful contributions to make, please make them to the relevant articles (e.g. Jews or Unilever). If your edits are getting deleted, it is because they don't follow Wikipedia guidelines. Chewyrunt 02:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Cost Cutting Paragraph misleading and wrong

The cost cutting paragraph is extremely misleading and wrong. The only products labeled "Frozen Dairy Desert" in the US are their Carb Smart line. This has nothing to do with cost cutting, it is due to the fact that they are trying to make a low-carb ice cream. All of their other product lines are labeled as some variation (low fat, reduced fat, etc.) of Ice Cream. Quikah (talk) 17:26, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

<possible advert excised> 24.3.70.180 (talk) 02:37, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

From a trip to the grocery store I can confirm that a large portion of Breyer's are formulated to contain mainly skim milk instead of cream and this is not only Carb Smart flavors. Jarwulf (talk) 18:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

The cost cutting paragraph is a tad odd and definitely not encyclopedic. Eg. since when did whey become synthetic ? I'm sure Little Miss Muffet would be surprised to hear that. Are we sure these ingredients are used due to cost-cutting? --2001:980:331A:1:225:22FF:FE7D:8A27 (talk) 14:42, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

1) With the exception of 6 to 8 flavors, most of their products now are labelled "frozen dairy dessert" in the United States. This is conjecture on my part but it seems like they are slowly changing recipes so that all of their products won't even be real ice cream but this parody of it called "frozen dairy dessert".

2) Whey might not be synthetic, but that doesn't mean that the use of whey instead of using nothing but cream isn't a cost cutting measure. I'd think it obvious that that between making most of their line a 'frozen dairy dessert" and their continued shrinking of their packaging that they have been cost cutting while charging the same price for their product since 2006 or 2007.

- 76.178.190.166 (talk) 08:46, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

You're assuming that Breyers is labeling their product as "frozen dairy dessert" because it doesn't have enough milk or cream in it, but since the definition says that ice cream must (1) contain a minimum of 10% dairy milkfat, and (2) have no more than 100% overrun and weigh at least 4.5 lbs per gallon, unless you have some sort of proof that it's due to the milkfat, this is a criticism and not a fact worthy of an encyclopedia.

To be honest, the entire "Ice Cream" section reads like a critical essay instead of an article. 161.45.254.218 (talk) 15:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

First of all, I think the cost-cutting question is fully answered by the post above ^. Obviously, using whey and corn syrup in place of cream and sugar is a common cost-cutting practice throughout the ice-cream industry.

Second of all, quite right. Synthetic is technically the wrong word. In a colloquial sense, as Wikipedia confirms, it implies "being prepared or made artificially, in contrast to naturally." However, in reading the appropriate definition in the ol' Random House Unabridged, synthetic is "noting or pertaining to compounds formed through a chemical process by human agency, as opposed to those of natural origin." Clearly, this means ADDING chemical ingredients to create a new substance, and that isn't whey or corn syrup. Those two ingredients are artificially produced through EXTRACTION and SEPARATION - quite the opposite of synthesis. I will immediately edit the article to use the proper words and terms. Thank you for bringing that to attention.

As far as Miss Muffet, I didn't know she was still around! If, as you posit, she is, then I'm not sure she knows where whey comes from. She might be surprised to hear damn near anything about the subject. After all, she has only ever been known to eat "curds and whey" - otherwise known as cottage cheese, and besides obviously being produced by human intervention, is nonetheless a perfectly natural form of curdled milk. Whey, on the other hand, isn't found in nature and must be produced by humans. It is an excellent example of the very definition of artificial, or colloquially, synthetic. And to the best of my knowledge, the aforementioned Miss Muffet has never been known to drink it.

Finally, regarding the paragraph being "definitely not encyclopedic", I strongly dispute that. It is encyclopedic according to the applicable guidelines given on this site, and it is well referenced. As far as being "a tad odd", I can't dispute that, as that's a highly subjective personal assessment. But odd can be a wonderful thing, such as my ex-bat Jerome, a one-winged red fuzzball who was three inches tall and lived longer than any red bat ever in captivity. Odd, that.

- Smike (talk) 20:23, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

According to the acceptable guidelines, an article must have a neutral tone and this one most certainly does not... particularly the "Ice cream" section, which reads far more like a Reddit post, complete with vague, unproven timelines (i.e. "in recent years" and "for several decades") and a list of potential ingredients composed to look like that's what's in every package of ice cream instead of being a comprehensive list of what could be in one.

This is not an encyclopedia article. 161.45.254.218 (talk) 20:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Date 2006 is not right. The referenced article mentions Tara gum at the date, but they had been toying with various other adulterants for many other years before that. I'd love to have the whole history at my finger tips, but per my memory it definitely dates back to the 90's, presumably around they time of their purchase by Unilever.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.33.82 (talk) 01:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. If you can find a source documenting any time prior to 2006 that they used unnatural or alternative ingredients, feel free to change the date and reference your source. Or, if you'd prefer, note it here and I will add said source and change the date myself.
- Smike (talk) 05:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Legal issues with Dreyer's section does not make sense.

There is some information missing or removed because as it reads now it does not really make sense. Who did Breyer's make original reciprocal agreement with? What does Edy's have to do with anything? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.205.52.2 (talk) 13:49, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I rewrote the entire paragraph and changed its title. Hopefully it makes sense now. Thank you very much for bringing this issue to attention - it was not a good explanation previously, and given how confusing the topic is to begin with, it badly needed to be overhauled.

- Smike (talk) 22:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Accusations of vandalism of this article from Reddit

There are accusations that this article was edited to hurt the brand in this reddit link Here: Reverse hit-piece advertisements? cojoco (talk) 07:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Looking for Assistance w/ Updates as a Result of a WP:COI

In reviewing this article, I have noticed a number of inaccuracies including the wrong logo, misspellings, listing of products that no longer exist, confusion over which products are actually "frozen dairy deserts" vs. "ice cream" and in some instances lack of references.

At the end of the day, I know Breyers would like to see its article be of the highest quality possible and have all the information it includes fall in line with Wikipedia guidelines.

I am wondering if we might get an editor's assistance to make some of the updates that are needed given my WP:COI. I am happy to work it through however you would like. I can identify the specific issues and provide references and leave it up to another editor for consideration to make the changes or not. Alternatively, I am happy to make the updates but would appreciate a watchful eye to ensure all the changes are in line with Wikipedia guidelines.

Following is a sample of some of the updates:

• Logo: Needs to be updated to reflect new logo that was introduced in 2013
• Date of introduction cited in info box should be 1866 vs. 1908 (http://2paragraphs.com/2013/06/the-melting-of-a-great-american-brand-breyers-ice-cream/)
• Intro Paragraph: Breyers is no longer a part of Good Humor Brand, but part of Unilever Refreshments Unit, name is just Breyers since it relocated from Greenbay, Wisconsin (http://www.breyers.com/home/about)
• Products: Many product names are incorrect, have been discontinued and not correctly identified

This is just a sampling. Appreciate any guidance on how we can address. Thx, SusanChana (talk) 14:58, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

If you could identify any specific changes you want made to the article then I'd be happy to help you out. Pishcal — ♣ 22:05, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, PishcalI am so sorry to have missed this!! Yes, that would be fantastic. Will get them up in this section later this morning for your consideration. Thx so much SusanChana (talk) 11:13, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

SusanChana, for me, the easiest way to accomplish this is if you'd rewrite the pertinent sections that need to be revised here. That way I can just copy, paste into/on top of the appropriate edit box, and edit out anything that to me feels like promotional copy or is unsourced.valereee (talk) 11:57, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi, @Pishcal: & @Valereee:. My apologies for the delay in putting up the suggestions. But we finally have them ready for your consideration. Here they are in a matrix which provides details on the sections and associated requested updates/additions. Really appreciate all your help. SusanChana (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Section	Issue	Requested Updates/Sources
General	"Breyers" is not consistently spelled throughout the article and in a couple places has a "'s" which is not correct
Intro	Company is no longer a part of Good Humor-Breyers Unit.	Owned by Unilever, it is part of its North American Refreshments Unit.
History/Cost-Cutting	Information about where the plants are located fits more within the "History" section, rather than the "Cost-Cutting".	Move "For several decades over 30% of Breyers products, including most of its products sold in the northeastern U.S., were produced in a large plant outside Boston, in Framingham, Massachusetts. As part of cost-cutting by Unilever, the plant was closed in March 2011.[11]" to "History"
History/Cost Cutting	The information about moving headquarters fits better within the history section.	Remove "In recent years, as part of cost-cutting measures since their move from Green Bay, Wisconsin to Unilever's U.S. headquarters in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey,[4]" from the Cost Cutting section. Add the following to the History section: In October 2007, Unilever announced that it would close its office in Green Bay following the integration of its North American ice cream business into its U.S. and Canadian operating units. The ice cream headquarters operations relocated to Unilever's U.S. headquarters in Englewood Cliifs, N.J.
Cost Cutting	Current content does not clarify that Breyers offers ice cream, gelato, frozen desserts, etc. Adding in a sentence to clarify would better explain Breyers offerings.	Breyers products inlcude ice cream, light ice cream, lactose free ice cream, frozen dairy dessert and gelato.
Cost Cutting	Breyers announced ingredient changes that are not listed in the "Cost Cutting" section.	Unilever has a goal to cut the company’s environmental impact in half by 2020. As a result, Breyers uses vanilla that comes from sustainably sourced Rainforest Alliance Certified™ beans in Madagascar. In February 2015, Breyers announced they would no longer use milk and cream from cows treated with artificial growth hormones.
Cost Cutting	Content in this section is more focused on ingredients and updates throughout the years rather than cost-cutting. Changing the title of this section to "Ingredient Changes" would provide a more informational headline to let readers know what the section is about.	Rename section "Ingredient Changes"
Products	Breyers offers gluten-free flavors that are not mentioned in the article.	Breyers has more than thirty gluten free flavors available.
Products	The Breyers Product list is outdated.	Breyers product lines include: Original (previously All Natural) Breyers Gelato Indulgences - features a trio of textures, creamy gelato, luscious sauce and gourmet toppings Breyers Blasts! - features family's favorite cookies and candy brands 1/2 The Fat - 1/2 the fat and 1/3 fewer calories than regular ice cream! Fat Free - made with real skim milk that churns out creamy smooth No Sugar Added - reduced fat and sweetened with Splenda CarbSmart - a low-carb ice cream product with 4 grams of net carbohydrates per 1/2 cup serving Lactose Free - 99% Lactose free

Hi SusanChana! Very quickly as I'm up against it in real life: Most of the information you want to add looks pretty straightforward. The biggest concerns I see are in the Products sections of the matrix -- of course we would never use 'luscious' sauces, 'gourmet' toppings, 'real' skim milk. Which family are you referring to in 'family's favorite' cookie and candy brands? We wouldn't use 'more than 30' but rather 'approximately 30' as more neutral phrasing. I don't have time to do the writing right now, but if you want to rewrite the sections of concern, including references, and post the rewritten sections here section by section (each in a new section of the talk page, for easy discussion) I will try to find time to help do the actual posting of the agreed-upon changes. Make sure to post to my talk page or ping me here whenever you post a new section. valereee (talk) 14:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Valereee! Thanks for your response. SusanChana is no longer with Golin and working on the project, so I'm taking over assisting with this. Thank you for your feedback. I completely understand the edits you've requested. I'll get the updates made as soon as possible and re-posted per your request. Thank you again for your time and guidance. Your assistance is appreciated! JessicaWinski (talk) 18:38, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Pishcal I wanted to reach out and see if we could still get some assistance with making these changes. There are sections further down in the talk page that include updates to the above chart based on Valereee's previous feedback. Happy to make edits where you see fit, but looking for some help in making these updates, if possible. Please let me know if you have any questions or requested updates, and thank you in advance! JessicaWinski (talk) 16:58, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

References

Philadelphia plant?

This statement: "For several decades over 30% of Breyers products, including most of its products sold in the northeastern U.S., were produced in a large plant outside Boston, in Framingham, Massachusetts. As part of cost-cutting by Unilever, the plant was closed in March 2011." seems misleading if not untrue. There was a large Breyers plant in West Philadelpiha at 43rd & Woodland Ave. for much of the 20th c.--into the early 1990s--and that plant certainly provided a good part of the product sold in the "northeastern U.S." Maybe the author meant New England and not the northeastern U.S.?? The West Philadelphia plant was a major landmark, with a large neon logo sign, widely visible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.139.37 (talk) 2015-08-25T19:19:13 (UTC)

Breyers doesn't melt?

It seems strange to me that this article contains absolutely nothing about the fact (as demonstrated on video) that Breyers actually does not melt, despite being left in a house at 22C! I'm sure there was some talk about this on the net some time ago, and I am sure that Breyers responded to it. But you can see the results of the video on Youtube - here 79.65.134.36 (talk) 11:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Updates to General Section: Looking for Assistance as a Result of a WP:COI

"Breyers" is not consistently spelled throughout the article and in a couple places has a " 's " which is not correct.

Requested change: Update the spelling throughout the article.

Hi, Valereee, as we discussed previously, I'm looking for assistance making updates to the Breyers page as a result of my WP:COI. If you could still assist with this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! JessicaWinski (talk) 20:46, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Y valereee (talk) 06:36, 19 March 2016 (UTC):

Hi, Valereee thank you for your quick response. Working on getting these updated ASAP to get that table removed! This one is the easiest to start with. :) Thanks again! JessicaWinski (talk) 15:38, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Updates to Introduction: Looking for Assistance as a Result of a WP:COI

Hi, Valereee, as we discussed previously, I'm looking for assistance making updates to the Breyers page as a result of my WP:COI. Below are the updates to the beginning of the Breyers Wiki page. If you could still assist with this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! JessicaWinski (talk) 20:51, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Breyers is no longer a part of Good Humor-Breyers Unit.

Requested change: Update sentence to say: Owned by Unilever, it is part of its North American Refreshments Unit.

Links to sources:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-unilever-reorganisation-idUKTRE75N1ZB20110624

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-08-05/fat-is-back-as-unilever-magnum-bites-nestle-skinny-cow-retail

Y valereee (talk) 06:36, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Valereee, I've removed the table from this section. Is this how you would like me to pull out the sources, or is there something else you would prefer to make it easiest on you? Please let me know and I will absolutely update. I appreciate all your guidance on this! JessicaWinski (talk) 16:54, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Updates to History and Cost Cutting Sections: Looking for Assistance as a Result of a WP:COI

Hi, Valereee, below are the updates to the history and cost cutting sections. I'm looking for assistance making updates to the Breyers page, as discussed before, as a result of my WP:COI. Your assistance and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! JessicaWinski (talk) 20:59, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

History Section:

Information about where the plants are located fits more within the "History" section, rather than the "Cost-Cutting".

Requested update: Move "For several decades over 30% of Breyers products, including most of its products sold in the northeastern U.S., were produced in a large plant outside Boston, in Framingham, Massachusetts. As part of cost-cutting by Unilever, the plant was closed in March 2011.[11]" to "History"

Source: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20110401/NEWS/304019934

The information about moving headquarters fits better within the history section.

Requested update: Remove "In recent years, as part of cost-cutting measures since their move from Green Bay, Wisconsin to Unilever's U.S. headquarters in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey,[4]" from the Cost Cutting section. Add the following to the History section: In October 2007, Unilever announced that it would close its office in Green Bay following the integration of its North American ice cream business into its U.S. and Canadian operating units. The ice cream headquarters operations relocated to Unilever's U.S. headquarters in Englewood Cliifs, N.J.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2007/10/08/daily32.html

Hi, Valereee - I've updated this section to remove the table. Let me know if you have any questions or additional edits. Your help is greatly appreciated! JessicaWinski (talk) 17:36, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Updates to Products Section: Looking for Assistance as a Result of a WP:COI

Hi, Valereee, below are the proposed edits for the Products section. I'm not sure why the tables are all dropping down together at the bottom. If I need to make any changes to the formatting to make the review and editing process easier for you, please let me know. Your assistance with this is much appreciated and I'm looking forward to your feedback! Thanks again. JessicaWinski (talk) 21:07, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Breyers offers gluten-free flavors that are not mentioned in the article.

Requested update: Add sentence: Breyers has approximately thirty gluten free flavors available.

Source: http://www.breyers.com/product/category/749112/gluten-free

The Breyers Product list is outdated.

Requested update: Update to include the following- Breyers product lines include:

• Original (previously All Natural)
• Breyers Blasts!
• 1/2 The Fat
• Fat Free
• No Sugar Added
• CarbSmart
• Lactose Free
• Breyers Gelato Indulgences

Source: http://www.breyers.com/product

Hi, Valereee. I believe this is the final update to remove the table. Again, please let me know of any edits or anything you need from me to help make the requested edits you feel are the right fit. Looking forward to your feedback. Thanks! JessicaWinski (talk) 17:43, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Get rid of the table

JessicaWinski I don't know what you've done to screw up your table, but on the best of days a table is hard to cut and paste. If you could please take everything out of the table and put each change with its set of references into its own section it would make helping you a lot easier. :) valereee (talk) 06:41, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Valereee Thanks so much for your prompt response! I've finished removing the table. Let me know if you have any other updates or information - I'm happy to update or make changes where you see fit. I appreciate all your help and guidance! JessicaWinski (talk) 17:45, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Updates to Cost Cutting Section: Looking for Assistance as a Result of a WP:COI

Hi, Valereee, here are the requested updated to the cost cutting section. Please let me know if you have any addition edits or questions. I'm eager to learn about this process and greatly appreciate your advice and guidance. Thanks again! JessicaWinski (talk) 17:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Current content does not clarify that Breyers offers ice cream, gelato, frozen desserts, etc. Adding in a sentence to clarify would better explain Breyers offerings.

Requested update: Add sentence: Breyers products inlcude ice cream, light ice cream, lactose free ice cream, frozen dairy dessert and gelato.

Source: http://www.breyers.com/product

Breyers announced ingredient changes that are not listed in the "Cost Cutting" section.

Requested update: Add the following: Unilever has a goal to cut the company’s environmental impact in half by 2020. Breyers uses vanilla that comes from sustainably sourced Rainforest Alliance Certified™ beans in Madagascar. In February 2015, Breyers announced they would no longer use milk and cream from cows treated with artificial growth hormones.

Source #1: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/business/unilever-finds-that-shrinking-its-footprint-is-a-giant-task.html?_r=0

Source #2: http://www.today.com/food/breyers-ice-cream-stop-using-dairy-hormone-treated-cows-t2446

Content in this section is more focused on ingredients and updates throughout the years rather than cost-cutting. Changing the title of this section to "Ingredient Changes" would provide a more informational headline to let readers know what the section is about. Requested update: Rename section "Ingredient Changes"

JessicaWinski (talk) 17:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

References

There was no cookie dough in my cookie dough ice cream. It was a huge tub of ice cream too.

So I bought cookie dough ice cream and there was absolutely no cookie dough nothing none absolutely none bought another one there was none and I was sad cause I have always had cookie dough ice cream from you guys. 2600:1700:1C2F:2000:5EF:3500:2C65:1442 (talk) 00:43, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Breyers does not maintain this page, and most likely do not check their Wikipedia article's talk page. The talk page is not to talk about the subject, but to discuss improvements to the article. TheEditAre111 (talk) 18:04, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Recall in the 1990s

I noticed that the recall was removed from this page sometime within the past 10 years or so. Not sure why because at the time it was a very large scandal when I was fairly young and it instilled a phobia of the Breyer's brand. Today, I understand what food allergies are and I came here to read about it for therapeutic reasons, because I'm certain that it is a fine and safe product, but it's not here anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.24.84.136 (talk) 21:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Unsourced list of ingredients in ice cream section

Hello! On behalf of Unilever and as part of my work at Beutler Ink, I am submitting a request to remove the (unsourced) third paragraph of the Ice cream section, which is an approximately 100 word list of ingredients. This seems to me to go against WP:NOTEVERYTHING and WP:UNSOURCED.

I have disclosed my conflict of interest on my profile page and at the top of this page. I generally avoid editing the main space directly and would prefer to have someone else review this request and update the page on my behalf. Thank you! Inkian Jason (talk) 21:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

 Removed Left guide (talk) 03:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing. Inkian Jason (talk) 13:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Request to remove poorly sourced content

Hi again! Continuing my work above, I'd like to suggest another improvement to the Ice cream section. Some of the descriptors like "common artificially separated and extracted ingredients" are unsupported and overly detailed, and sources #7, #8, and #9 are old ingredient lists from the Breyers website.

Therefore, I propose removing the following content: "Breyers' list of ingredients has expanded to include thickeners, low-cost sweeteners, food coloring and low-cost additives — including natural additives such as tara gum and carob bean gum; artificial additives such as maltodextrin and propylene glycol; and common artificially separated and extracted ingredients such as corn syrup, whey, and others."

I also noticed that Source #5 is a blog and not a reliable source. Do editors think it may be easier just to remove the first two paragraphs of the section given that the sourcing doesn't meet reliable source standards?

I plan on submitting draft content to improve this section, but for now, I am seeking to remove inappropriately sourced text from the page. @Left guide: I am curious if you have any thoughts since you reviewed my last post.

Thanks in advance for any help! Inkian Jason (talk) 14:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't love how heavily this section relies on the A Daily Scoop source, but I'm reluctant to remove (sourced) potentially-negative content on a COI editor's recommendation. My preference here would be to see the proposed replacement before removing. Poking around a little for better sourcing, this NYT article may be relevant, though it's obviously, uh, opinionated. Also the Dispatch.

Old ingredients list seem like a fine source (this seems like an uncontroversial WP:ABOUTSELF especially given that they're legally required not to lie here!) though if there are more recent ingredients lists that contradict this obviously the information should be changed or dated.

I've toned the current content down slightly and removed the content not in the citation, but not removed all of it. Rusalkii (talk) 01:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

@Rusalkii: Thank you for taking a look and updating the article. I'm working on the draft text now and can let you know when it is ready to review. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

History update

Hello again. For my next request, I propose replacing the first sentence of the History section:

• In 1866, William A. Breyer began to produce and sell iced cream in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, first from his home, and later via horse and wagon on the streets.

References

With this updated text:

• The Breyers brand was created in 1866 by William Breyer, who made ice cream in his kitchen and sold it from a horse-drawn wagon in Philadelphia. By the time of his death in 1882, he had opened six shops in Philadelphia while still manufacturing the ice cream in his home.

References

This text is more accurate to the source and adds additional detail about the early days of Breyers. My goal is to make this beginning more complete and accurate to the source material.

 Done. Zefr (talk) 21:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, if editors are interested, I did write a new draft of the article to show what I hope the final product will look like. @Rusalkii: Would you be interested in reviewing this request since you have reviewed others on this article? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:21, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Inkian Jason, I'm currently going through my backlog of requests that are waiting on a response from me in particular and working on non-controversial small requests; I'll leave looking at the draft to other editors for now. Rusalkii (talk) 22:17, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr: Thank you for reviewing this request and updating the article. I have marked the request as answered. @Rusalkii: Thanks for the reply, too. I will continue my series of smaller requests for now. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

History update continued

Hello again. For my next request, I suggest replacing these sentences in the History section (all but the final sentence of the second paragraph):

• Breyer's son Henry incorporated the business in 1908. The formerly independent Breyer Ice Cream Company was sold to the National Dairy Products Corporation/Sealtest in 1926. National Dairy then changed its name to Kraftco in 1968, and Kraft by 1975.

With this updated text:

• In 1896, Breyer's sons Fred and Henry opened the first manufacturing facility for Breyers ice cream, incorporated the company, and began using the briar leaf in the company logo. The company opened its second facility in 1904 and became the first to use brine-cooled freezers the following year. By 1914, Breyers Ice Cream Company was selling one million gallons of ice cream annually. The company opened additional plants in Long Island City, New York, and Newark, New Jersey, in the 1920s and became a subsidiary of the National Dairy Products Corporation (NDPC) in 1926. NDPC sold the brand to Kraft in 1952. In 1969, Breyers became part of Kraftco, the precursor company to Kraft Foods, Inc., and began being sold in the southeastern United States; sales extended west of the Mississippi River in 1984.

References

This updated text corrects errors in unreferenced content, adds citations where needed, updates the existing AP citation to better reflect the source, and adds additional context related to Breyers' early years.

My goal is to make this content more complete and accurate. Again, you can view how this request relates to the overall draft I've saved here, if that's helpful or if you're interested in reviewing more of the proposed History section.

@Zefr and Rusalkii: Would either of you be interested in reviewing this request?

Thank you! Inkian Jason (talk) 17:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Zefr (talk) 21:01, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 00:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

History request 3

Hi editors, for next request, I suggest replacing the following sentence

• Kraft sold its ice cream brands to Unilever in 1993, while retaining rights to the Breyers name for yogurt products.

With:

By 1986, Breyers was the best-selling ice cream brand in the United States. Its expansion into California was met with consumer confusion due to the similarity in name with Dreyer's, the most popular ice cream brand on the West Coast. Breyers' advertisements stressed that its name started with the letter "B" and noted differences in ingredients between the two products, including that Dreyer's used corn syrup and color additives while Breyers did not. Breyers' carton branding had drawn many imitators, leading to a redesign in the 1980s to make its cartons black with images of the product.

Unilever purchased Breyers ice cream in 1993 and merged it with Gold Bond and Good Humor ice cream to create the Good Humor-Breyers division. Kraft retained the rights to produce Breyers-branded yogurt. Unilever closed its last Breyers plant in Philadelphia in 1995. Good Humor-Breyers moved its headquarters from Green Bay, Wisconsin, to Toronto and Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, in 2007.

References

• Note: The missing links are named references (the Goff book and the AP article) already named in the live article.

Like the previous request, this expands on the information about Breyers' history (particularly in the 80s and 90s), adds additional sources, and generally makes the History section more complete. @Zefr: Would be willing to take a look at this one as well? Inkian Jason (talk) 00:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Zefr (talk) 16:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr: Thank you for reviewing! Inkian Jason (talk) 17:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

History request 4

Hi editors, for my next request, I suggest adding the following to the end of the History section:

Unilever closed a Breyers production facility in Framingham, Massachusetts, in 2011. A facility manufacturing Breyers-branded yogurt in North Lawrence, New York also closed that year.

In 2015, Breyers stopped using milk from cows treated with the hormone recombinant bovine somatotropin and began using vanilla from Madagascar that had been certified as sustainably sourced by the Rainforest Alliance.

Social media posts in the 2010s and early 2020s, as well as a New York Times column by Dan Barry, circulated about some Breyers products being labeled "frozen dairy dessert" rather than ice cream, leading to questions about the ingredients in the products. The labeling difference was due to butterfat content in the products. Regulations in the United States and Canada require products with less than 10 percent butterfat to be labeled as frozen dairy dessert.

References

This brings the History section up to date and consolidates several pieces of historical information (like the closing of the Framingham plant and labeling of some products as frozen dairy dessert) with appropriate and complete sourcing, making the article more complete and accurate overall. @Zefr: Would this request be of interest, too? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Inkian Jason - respectfully, these events seem relatively minor as WP:UNDUE and somewhat promotional. The Breyers website history doesn't feature these stories. Zefr (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr: I would generally agree these are minor things. I was trying to keep the text as close as possible to the current article (with updated reliable sourcing) and then add new content related to the use of hormone-free milk and vanilla sourcing, which is covered by the history page you linked (the 2015 bullet on the timeline mentions it) as well as the ingredients pledge on the Breyers website. For the specific content proposed:

Extended content

The closure of the Framingham facility is discussed in the Breyers#Ice cream section, in the sentence: For several decades over 30% of Breyers products, including most of its products sold in the Northeastern U.S., were produced in a large plant outside Boston, in Framingham, Massachusetts. As part of cost-cutting by Unilever, the plant was closed in March 2011. This sentence has a tag for being ambiguous and the reference link is dead. My suggested update fixes the dead link, removes the ambiguity, and moves the closure into History, which I believe makes more sense. I am perfectly fine with removing this from the request and would also suggest the content then be removed from the Ice cream section as well. The discussion of ice cream vs. frozen dairy dessert I have proposed similarly seeks to address the remaining content in the Ice cream section. The current Ice cream largely cites the Breyers website and a blog, contains original research not supported by the citations used, and has been tagged for ambiguity. My version replaces poorly sourced content and original research with content verified by sourcing; however, I am also perfectly fine with removing this part of the request and would suggest that if this information is undue, the Ice cream section as a whole be removed. Regarding the addition of the content on the use of hormone free milk and vanilla sourcing, I am also perfectly fine with removing that request if it is seen as promotional or undue.

Thank you for taking the time to look. I appreciate the close reading and feedback. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Agree that the Ice cream section can be deleted, and did so. Moved the Yogurt information - which is part of history - to the History section. Anything further? Zefr (talk) 19:19, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr: Thanks for doing that! I have marked the request as answered.

I have two larger requests and two smaller requests for the article.

The first smaller request involves updating the infobox to the following:

Extended content
Breyers (omitted to avoid any issues with WP:NONFREE; image is Breyers Logo.png) Product type Frozen dessert Owner Unilever Country United States Introduced 1866 (1866) Previous owners Kraft Foods Inc. Website breyers.com

I have primarily added links and removed the Good Humor-Breyers ownership as that is a subbrand of Unilever.

The second smaller request is to slightly expand the introduction based on the information in the article:

Extended content

Breyers is an American ice cream brand created in 1866 by William Breyer in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. By the 1920s, the brand was producing more than 1 million gallons annually. It was sold to the National Dairy Products Corporation in 1926 and again in 1993 to Unilever, which merged it with Good Humor to form the Good Humor-Breyers division. Breyers was noted for advertising its use of natural ingredients.

My first larger request involves removing the Breyers#Confusion_with_Dreyer's section. I'm proposing this for several reasons:

Extended content

The content is already largely covered by the third paragraph of the History section, as appropriate sourcing supports The content is not appropriately sourced Icecream.com, the first source, is not an RS The sentences Henry Breyer founded Breyers in 1908 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, while William Dreyer and Joseph Edy co-founded Edy's Grand Ice Cream in 1928 in Oakland, California. The root of the confusion dates to 1953, when "Edy's Grand Ice Cream" was changed to "Dreyer's Grand Ice Cream". Seeking to eliminate the confusion this created, Dreyer's changed its brand name in the home market of Breyers from "Dreyer's Grand" back to "Edy's Grand" in 1981. are inaccurate and/or unsourced. The listed Forbes (found on LexisNexis) does not support the sentences. The entirety of Dreyer's/Breyers content from the article is in the box below T. Gary Rogers, chairman of Dreyer's Grand Ice Cream, has used a different approach -- pricing. Rogers has counted on steady increases in the prices for his confections to finance expansion from his Oakland, Calif. base into 19 western and midwestern states. ("It is frightening to take this to its logical conclusion but, up until this point, a price hike has never hurt us and often sales have picked up as a result," says Rogers.) His ice cream sells at retail about 25% higher than the typical name brand sold in the supermarket. I have been unable to locate the Baltimore Business Journal article cited for the sentence Around that same time Breyers had begun an expansion toward the West Coast—the home market of Dreyer's—and by the mid-1980s was distributing ice cream throughout the western U.S. and Texas. but I believe this is also already covered by other appropriate sources in the History section Tonally, I don't think the last sentence in the section is particularly encyclopedic and is generally unnecessary as it is already covered in the History section

Finally, I suggest the creation of a new section, titled Marketing campaigns with content on campaigns covered by appropriate sources. My proposed section is below.

Extended content

In 1989, Marine Midland Bank launched the Breyers Visa credit card aimed at families with young children. The cards launched simultaneously with the Children's Miracle Network Hospitals telethon that year, as well as advertisements in newspapers, People, and TV Guide. Breyers committed US$2 for every account opened during the campaign. Bernadette Peters starred in a series of Breyers commercials in the 1990s. To coincide with a relaunch of its Cookies & Cream flavor with increased cookies in 2021, Breyers began offering "Cookie Coverage", a coupon to customers and an insurance certificate to allow claims for customers unsatisfied with the volume of cookies in their ice cream tubs. The campaign featured approval from the GEICO Gecko and was created in partnership with Edelman. The brand resumed its partnership with Peters in 2024 to market its CarbSmart lower-calorie product line. VML took over Breyers' marketing strategy the same year. References

Please let me know what you think, and thank you for all your assistance. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:41, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

I inserted the revised infobox as suggested. The Breyers script logo with the leaf (shown on breyers.com) could be used, but is not currently on Wikimedia Commons, so it would have to be uploaded and cleared for public use, if available.

I revised the lede and removed the Dreyer's section. Regarding a section on marketing campaigns, this impresses as unencyclopedic and too close to advertising, so I'll decline on that suggestion. Zefr (talk) 23:46, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help here, Zefr. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Logo, propylene glycol

@Zefr: I've uploaded the logo under fair use for the infobox. Would you be willing to add the image for me?

I was also wondering if you had any thoughts about the appropriateness of the recent content addition related to propylene glycol. The text reads like an attempt to inspire fear about a federally approved food additive. Propylene glycol has many uses beyond antifreeze and the specific concerns about its use in food have been discussed and pretty thoroughly dismissed (source 1, source 2). Also, the sources used for this I think are subpar. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer source is a reposting of an opinion piece by The Motley Fool, which is a private financial and investing advice company. The Motley Fool is not a reliable source and the main discussion about it on the reliable sources noticeboard indicates that it is at best of dubious reliability. The Zinczenko book also says propylene glycol is antifreeze, which is not accurate. Overall, this seems to be the same kind of content that was in the ice cream section you deleted as part of one of my earlier requests.

Should this also be removed? Thanks again for any help. Inkian Jason (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done, thanks. Zefr (talk) 22:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Inkian Jason (talk) 15:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Concerning recent removal made in response to request of Breyer/Unilever

Hi, @Rusalkii:, I want to follow up with you about your comment from August. I personally share your concern and I felt what I've added back with your feedback taken into consideration addresses the prior concern. Since it's not sourced to some blog now, I don't think it should have been removed at the request of Uniliver. Please comment if you don't mind. Graywalls (talk) 16:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure what suggestion is being made here. I'm taking a bit of a break from the edit request queue. Restoring that with better sourcing seems fine by me. Rusalkii (talk) 00:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Left guide:, I see you've worked on the article within the past few months too. Do you have any thoughts? Graywalls (talk) 17:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr:, the change you made was made as a result of direct request made to you by the company. This particular content was previously discussed and another editor expressed concerns about removal of potentially negative info at the request of company. Since that sourcing issue has been addressed, this shouldn't have been removed at company request. It was properly sourced. "outdated" is not a reason for omission. Graywalls (talk) 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I question how an ingredient reported 10+ years ago is relevant now or even then as part of history. No version of the article says propylene glycol is a healthy additive, but there is no evidence the FDA stepped in to halt Breyers use of it in food manufacturing. It is, in fact, allowed (August 2024) under this US federal code (concentration dependent in food manufacturing, of course, as stated: "2.5 percent for frozen dairy products").

The talk page notice by Inkian Jason alerted me to this issue. I studied it, and edited the article based on my own evaluation. I consider the matter of a minor approved ingredient to be WP:UNDUE and WP:CHERRYPICK as an isolated form to raise criticism.

If you have more direct evidence and scientific sourcing under a WP:BMI source to indicate propylene glycol in the levels used is harmful and a change is warranted, you should present it here for other editors to evaluate, WP:CON. Zefr (talk) 17:13, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr:, This isn't a medical article. If the presence of it has been covered in reputable sources, some mention is due and the decision to include/not include isn't held to the bar of WP:MEDRS. We're not talking about health effects. There is no such rule that information expires after a certain duration or recent information is favored. That's WP:RECENTISM. The concern initially raised was that it was sourced to some blog. Now that we have Seattle Post Intelligencer, it's worth at least a mention. Nowhere did it mention it was disallowed. Moreover, since their selling point is about naturalness, presence of approved, but non "natural" ingredients, with media coverage is not unreasonable. Graywalls (talk) 17:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Simply, the issue has no WP:WEIGHT, either in the public or under review by the FDA. Zefr (talk) 17:32, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

It is not NPOV when one side is given weight. Breyers' advertisements stressed that its name started with the letter "B" and noted differences in ingredients between the two products, including that Dreyer's used corn syrup and color additives while Breyers did not.. Why should this remain then? The Seattle PI might be repeating a blog, but a post that's been discussed in reliable media source is different from an editor directly citing a blog that's never been taken notice by a news outlet. I don't think there's any question about the validity of presence of Propylene glycol in Breyers products. What makes it note worthy is the company's brand emphasis on "natural". Graywalls (talk) 17:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

In the removed material in question, the book reference is a secondary source from Random House, a reputable mainstream book publisher, so should satisfy WP:WEIGHT. The other source appears to be Seattle Post Intelligencer reprinting a piece from The Motley Fool. The only pertinent RSN archive discussion I could find is Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 329#The Motley Fool where community consensus seems to suggest that controversial info be omitted, or at best attributed. On a procedural note, I disagree with how the article's status quo version is the COI company representative's requested version. Left guide (talk) 22:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Left guide:, I appreciate you providing input. I would just like to add that we would rarely cite a Twitter or Facebook post aside from a confirmed official account of a notable figure about their birth day, or number of kids and such thing. We also won't use things like Forum posts. However, every source originates as primary source. Many scholarly journals and newspapers base information from private interviews, however it's seldom just passing through whatever was said in verbatim unless it is churnalism like "Lorem Ipsum is simply dummy text of the printing and typesetting industry. Lorem Ipsum has been the industry's standard dummy text ever since the 1500s" he said... she said... Johnson said. Therefore, a direct quotation to The Motley Fool would be undue, but when it has gained the attention of the Seattle PI, situation is changed. Anyways, this is my take on it. I am not sure why Unilever's liaison is saying "propylene glycol is antifreeze, which is not accurate". Mentioning a common application, as cited by a high quality source is reasonable. For example saying MSG, commonly found naturally in tomatoes if this reference is made in a reliable source. Also, Unilever's agent disputed about propylene glycol being antifreeze even though that characterization is made in a reliable source. There are also sources confirming PG's use as antifreeze https://books.google.com/books?id=mKw4AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA58 (5.6) https://books.google.com/books?id=L87djjnkVrsC&pg=PA61 https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/961027/ So it's no different than saying hydrochloric acid is stomach acid. Graywalls (talk) 23:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Graywalls - in reviewing the article and sources again, I don't see controversial information remaining or valid notable content omitted. I am just a copyeditor on this article, with no stake other than having edited content supported by sources.

What issues remain for you? Zefr (talk) 16:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

While you don't see it, it is quite clear myself and other editors also see the issue with this article taking on the shape of corporate owner interest sided presentation. Graywalls (talk) 17:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr:, I also ask you to address why selectively including the lack of presence of FDA approved corn syrup and color additives in this brand that are present in competitors is due, which you added at the suggestion of the Unilever agent while completely omitting reliable source coverage about the presence of also FDA approved propylene glycol in Breyers products. Graywalls (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm under no influence by anyone. Is this point you make relevant and current for the ingredients in products by competitors and Breyers? "lack of presence of FDA approved corn syrup and color additives in this brand that are present in competitors is due" - that's gibberish - what is the WP:RS evidence for "lack of presence"? Your point is vague and outdated - the significance of this escapes me.

You seem to want to make a critical case about propylene glycol (PG) as an ingredient used by Breyers and most ice cream manufacturers more than a decade ago, and apparently is no longer an applicable issue.

If you want to offer a new draft that includes this FDA source showing PG as an approved common food additive in the American food supply since 1982, please write it here. Zefr (talk) 18:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm saying that showcasing Breyers doesn't contain corn syrup or color additives, while a competitor product does, like Unilever wants it presented, but suppressing discussions of Breyers containing PG is UNDUE. If anything, the former should be omitted as well. As it stands, we have no consensus to include the former either. Graywalls (talk) 18:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The LA Times source was used to support the corn syrup-color additives statement, and is/was not "showcasing" because the propylene glycol issue hasn't existed in Breyers products for at least 10 years - it is WP:UNDUE, and was (still is) an FDA-approved ingredient at the time. This is a moot issue. You are shouting at windmills and should move on. Zefr (talk) 18:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr:, I object to retaining trivia about corn syrup and color additives. Along your own argument, these too, like PG are approved additives. I am not convinced we should retain LA Times sourced comment which was asked to be included by Unilever PR firm's rep on the absence of corn/syrup and color additive while removing presence of propylene glycol based on Random House sourcing. Graywalls (talk) 03:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, why did you abruptly manually archive the talk page right in the middle of neutrality dispute when it's contextually relevant? Graywalls (talk) 17:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Your motivation to revert the older talk page discussions seems to reflect an ardent desire to revive solved discussions and introduce controversy that doesn't exist.

Archiving was not abrupt at all. I specified topics from 2006-22 which have been resolved by consensus. That is what archiving serves to do, "to keep the size of the talk page at a manageable level". If a topic is still relevant, it can be revived with a more focused discussion and current, relevant sources.

What do you feel from 2006-22 topics are relevant now? If they exist as WP:DUE, restate them in a new section. Zefr (talk) 18:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The presentation is not balanced. There's a current neutrality dispute occurring right now. This is an inappropriate timing to do something that lowers the visibility of discussion that is quite relevant. It should wait until the dust is fully settled. While you're right, this is an extremely inappropriate time to suddenly implement it. Graywalls (talk) 18:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

October 2024 class action suit

Removal of this section is justified because the lawsuit is not final. There is an upcoming fairness hearing: On Nov. 21, the court will hold a fairness hearing to decide whether or not the settlement is reasonable. The court will consider any objections.

Unilever has not agreed to the claim of non-vanilla ingredients, and has made a defense that the ingredients are natural vanilla. Also, the amount of payment - if the penalty holds - is not finalized by the court. Addition to the article is warranted when the final court order is published. Zefr (talk) 17:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Zefr:, as Left guide mentioned, I'm concerned the article is taking the shape of Unilever's desired presentation. This happens to be shortly following having been privately contacted by Unilever agent through your talk page. Graywalls (talk) 17:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There's no significance to my receiving a contact on my talk page. I have been following this article out of my own interest for most of 2024, and am taking an objective view of the content, which - by the article size - is basically a stub unlikely to change much. There is little WP:RS-supported content with due weight to dispute or add from the past decade.

Your opposition and arguments are vague. I suggest you begin your objections again in the conventional sense of an edit request in a new section: "Change x to y" and provide a reliable source. Zefr (talk) 18:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not a COI editor, so it's not as I am seeking your approval on something. Graywalls (talk) 18:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

That would not justify removal. Your argument is not consistent with wikipedia's policies and guidelines, remember you aren't allowed to engage in promotional activity even after disclosing. What you seem to be proposing here is promotion. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Horse Eye's Back just to be clear, Zefr isn't the PR agent. They're the person that was contacted with a ping and talk page message by someone from a public relations firm representing Unilever (which owns Breyers brand). The nature of past requests from the public relation firm's rep looks to me of increasing flattering contents while pruning unflattering contents and in my opinion, the contents suggested violate the idea of NPOV. Graywalls (talk) 17:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I am saying that a promotional edit does not become non-promotional when its Zefr making/requesting the edit. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)